Adding Worms To Bad Soil Won't Fix It. Here's Why
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Date: 2022-07-18
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Comments and reviews: 14
Chris
dont grow worms. grow veggies. invasive species of worms and synthetically created vegetables etc, are not some paragon of nature.
although earthworms can indicate fairly good soil conditions, both the conditions and the worms will come and go as things change, like seasons. worms dont magically create all the nutrients for the highly hibridized vegetables we grow. compost grows worms and other critters, and becomes carbon dioxide in a season. fertilizer grows plants. you can grow healthy vegetables in soil that has no earthworms. all the compost and worms in the world. and you end up with lackluster vegetables and wonder why all the work didnt pay off. that's because organic gardening fairy tales are %1 fact and 99% magical story. worms love a cool and wet soil in spring that hasnt been disturbed. vegetable seedlings need oxygen for roots and warmth to grow. mother nature [sic] didnt produce the vegetables we grow or the soil and climate conditions for them. no amount of worms will bring phosphorous or some lacking micro-nutrient into a soil that already lacks them. shredded wood a. k. a. compost, doesnt contain phosphorous or calcium or other necessary nutrients, unless added. and microbes will use the fertilizer to turn wood into carbon dioxide. compost is big business and not a good return on investment growing veggies.
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dont grow worms. grow veggies. invasive species of worms and synthetically created vegetables etc, are not some paragon of nature.
although earthworms can indicate fairly good soil conditions, both the conditions and the worms will come and go as things change, like seasons. worms dont magically create all the nutrients for the highly hibridized vegetables we grow. compost grows worms and other critters, and becomes carbon dioxide in a season. fertilizer grows plants. you can grow healthy vegetables in soil that has no earthworms. all the compost and worms in the world. and you end up with lackluster vegetables and wonder why all the work didnt pay off. that's because organic gardening fairy tales are %1 fact and 99% magical story. worms love a cool and wet soil in spring that hasnt been disturbed. vegetable seedlings need oxygen for roots and warmth to grow. mother nature [sic] didnt produce the vegetables we grow or the soil and climate conditions for them. no amount of worms will bring phosphorous or some lacking micro-nutrient into a soil that already lacks them. shredded wood a. k. a. compost, doesnt contain phosphorous or calcium or other necessary nutrients, unless added. and microbes will use the fertilizer to turn wood into carbon dioxide. compost is big business and not a good return on investment growing veggies.
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ReaPlays
I understand the general concept of converting dirt into soil by starting at the bacterial and fungal level but I don't understand excluding adding worms to dirt. Looking for feedback:
You say worms are likely to die if added to lifeless dirt. I agree. But what about in-ground worm farms/bins -- isn't it true that adding an in-ground worm bin solves the problem of providing food for worms even in lifeless soil?
And if the worms are able to survive because of the in-ground bins, wouldn't the worms then be able to aerate the soil and add organic matter UNDER the surface (vs simply adding organics to the surface?
And if this is true, wouldn't the subsurface aeration and distribution of worm castings go a long way in encouraging deeper root growth (vs shallow, sprawling rooting?
I can't help but feel like this sort of hyper-focus on starting at the microbial level is causing us to overlook, ignore, or exclude reasonable solutions to creating/restoring soil and the soil food web.
I'm all for emphasizing bacterial and fungal health as a fundamental element of soil health but I don't see how that would cause me or anyone else to discourage using worms as one among many tools to help reach that goal. Am I missing something here?
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I understand the general concept of converting dirt into soil by starting at the bacterial and fungal level but I don't understand excluding adding worms to dirt. Looking for feedback:
You say worms are likely to die if added to lifeless dirt. I agree. But what about in-ground worm farms/bins -- isn't it true that adding an in-ground worm bin solves the problem of providing food for worms even in lifeless soil?
And if the worms are able to survive because of the in-ground bins, wouldn't the worms then be able to aerate the soil and add organic matter UNDER the surface (vs simply adding organics to the surface?
And if this is true, wouldn't the subsurface aeration and distribution of worm castings go a long way in encouraging deeper root growth (vs shallow, sprawling rooting?
I can't help but feel like this sort of hyper-focus on starting at the microbial level is causing us to overlook, ignore, or exclude reasonable solutions to creating/restoring soil and the soil food web.
I'm all for emphasizing bacterial and fungal health as a fundamental element of soil health but I don't see how that would cause me or anyone else to discourage using worms as one among many tools to help reach that goal. Am I missing something here?
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Anne
Another point which I think it's important to make - worms don't belong in the soil of container plants. Some people think it's a good idea to drop them in, or leave them there if they find their way in, because worms are good for soil. But worms living in a plant pot or grow bag have to keep digging and digging through a very limited amount of soil just to try and get enough nutrients to survive, so the fine roots of the plant are constantly being severed as they try to grow. I've had a lot of problems with worm eggs from my homemade worm compost getting into plant pots with the compost, and then later I'm wondering why the plant just isn't growing. After months, when the roots should have filled the pot, I'll knock the plant out of the pot and find the roots are only in the top 1/3 or 1/4 of the soil, and the rest of the pot is filled with a totally loose, soggy pile of worm castings. (In addition to the constant severing of the root hairs, the constant worm pooping in the pot is way too much of a good thing - all that worm mucus retains tons of water and you've got a soggy swamp in your pot)
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Another point which I think it's important to make - worms don't belong in the soil of container plants. Some people think it's a good idea to drop them in, or leave them there if they find their way in, because worms are good for soil. But worms living in a plant pot or grow bag have to keep digging and digging through a very limited amount of soil just to try and get enough nutrients to survive, so the fine roots of the plant are constantly being severed as they try to grow. I've had a lot of problems with worm eggs from my homemade worm compost getting into plant pots with the compost, and then later I'm wondering why the plant just isn't growing. After months, when the roots should have filled the pot, I'll knock the plant out of the pot and find the roots are only in the top 1/3 or 1/4 of the soil, and the rest of the pot is filled with a totally loose, soggy pile of worm castings. (In addition to the constant severing of the root hairs, the constant worm pooping in the pot is way too much of a good thing - all that worm mucus retains tons of water and you've got a soggy swamp in your pot)
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Carrie
My planters are loaded with organic material. most recently, several inches of tree mulch from a large tree in my yard that had to be removed. Several neighbors enjoyed the mulch as well. I find worms each year when I plant flowers. I'm glad I never added more, they apparently know where to find food.
On the other hand, my lawn looks like your pie chart. I think the only organic matter is the grass, clover, and bugs. There's no soil to speak of. The clover seems to like the clay and the bees love the clover, so it works.
My question is, should I be adding clay or other inorganic to the planters? or just leave it be as long as what I want to grow does well? There is so much discussion now about not disturbing the soil, it's confusing.
I am thinking of making the planters into a pollinator garden.
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My planters are loaded with organic material. most recently, several inches of tree mulch from a large tree in my yard that had to be removed. Several neighbors enjoyed the mulch as well. I find worms each year when I plant flowers. I'm glad I never added more, they apparently know where to find food.
On the other hand, my lawn looks like your pie chart. I think the only organic matter is the grass, clover, and bugs. There's no soil to speak of. The clover seems to like the clay and the bees love the clover, so it works.
My question is, should I be adding clay or other inorganic to the planters? or just leave it be as long as what I want to grow does well? There is so much discussion now about not disturbing the soil, it's confusing.
I am thinking of making the planters into a pollinator garden.
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ponyboy417
People crow corn and grain for reason if they got bad storms ect it compost fast for fertilizer be gone by next year sell some fertilizer and corn is easiest thing to grow then it fastest plant to compost to boost soil fast and u should grow stuff in pots or rasied beds then take soil out pits or beds Evey year or 3 add it to original soul and add grass clips tree clips and ash from fire pit in there once it not hot and add wood chips I like un stained much in my dirt for worms and if u have a fish tank drain it out side not on top plants dig s hole fill it to point it goes towards roots and put grass clippings in in hole and fire pit ash use fire wood to make a border don't burn it it will slowly decay over years and for rasied beds fallow me to my comments
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People crow corn and grain for reason if they got bad storms ect it compost fast for fertilizer be gone by next year sell some fertilizer and corn is easiest thing to grow then it fastest plant to compost to boost soil fast and u should grow stuff in pots or rasied beds then take soil out pits or beds Evey year or 3 add it to original soul and add grass clips tree clips and ash from fire pit in there once it not hot and add wood chips I like un stained much in my dirt for worms and if u have a fish tank drain it out side not on top plants dig s hole fill it to point it goes towards roots and put grass clippings in in hole and fire pit ash use fire wood to make a border don't burn it it will slowly decay over years and for rasied beds fallow me to my comments
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wildlife
Thank you, very comprehensive. In areas of my garden that need extra nutrition, I find a number of (shaded) open bottomed worm farms are the perfect answer for us. Super simple. I site them as high as possible so that the worm castings and wee move slowly through the soil with gravity. Soil improvement and creation really is the foundation. On my soil paths (small site) I do everywhere composting, with added coir for moisture and chop and drop leaves and cardboard and wood chips. My previous super thin, bare rocks and barren hydrophobic soil is as luscious as chocolate cake. Key are layers and layers or organic material to attract the worms, no organic material ever leaves my site. It is all incorporated.
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Thank you, very comprehensive. In areas of my garden that need extra nutrition, I find a number of (shaded) open bottomed worm farms are the perfect answer for us. Super simple. I site them as high as possible so that the worm castings and wee move slowly through the soil with gravity. Soil improvement and creation really is the foundation. On my soil paths (small site) I do everywhere composting, with added coir for moisture and chop and drop leaves and cardboard and wood chips. My previous super thin, bare rocks and barren hydrophobic soil is as luscious as chocolate cake. Key are layers and layers or organic material to attract the worms, no organic material ever leaves my site. It is all incorporated.
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Robert
I don't know if I've just had strange circumstances, but my Red Wigglers have always lived all throughout my 16-inch deep bins. I've went out of my way to try to attract them to the top, but most of them hang out at the bottom where its really moist.
I've also done some testing of mixing multiple worm types. I had one bin of pure red wigglers, and one with every type of earthworm I could find in my yard along with red wigglers. Believe it or not, the mixed bin devoured waste almost twice as fast as the pure red wiggler bin. I've only done the one test, and I didn't exactly count the worms one by one, so if anyone else out there has experimented with this, let me know!
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I don't know if I've just had strange circumstances, but my Red Wigglers have always lived all throughout my 16-inch deep bins. I've went out of my way to try to attract them to the top, but most of them hang out at the bottom where its really moist.
I've also done some testing of mixing multiple worm types. I had one bin of pure red wigglers, and one with every type of earthworm I could find in my yard along with red wigglers. Believe it or not, the mixed bin devoured waste almost twice as fast as the pure red wiggler bin. I've only done the one test, and I didn't exactly count the worms one by one, so if anyone else out there has experimented with this, let me know!
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handmade
I heard a Master Gardner put it this way: concentrate on feeding the soil not the plants. Gardening is 3/4 growing whats below the ground & 1/4 growing above ground. I do what I call direct composting. I collect food scraps in a 5 gallon bucket. When its full I dig a trench in my garden and spread the contents out. I cover it with the soil I dug out of the trench and put a stick in it. When the 5 gallon buckets is full again I go over a couple of feet dig another trench pour in the contents cover it and again mark it with a stick. that way I can always use a new location. I have some fat happy earth worms & rich soil!
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I heard a Master Gardner put it this way: concentrate on feeding the soil not the plants. Gardening is 3/4 growing whats below the ground & 1/4 growing above ground. I do what I call direct composting. I collect food scraps in a 5 gallon bucket. When its full I dig a trench in my garden and spread the contents out. I cover it with the soil I dug out of the trench and put a stick in it. When the 5 gallon buckets is full again I go over a couple of feet dig another trench pour in the contents cover it and again mark it with a stick. that way I can always use a new location. I have some fat happy earth worms & rich soil!
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Carol
I know my soil is dead. I know I need to add in organic matter. I have add what I can, but it's hard when I live on 5 1/2acres and am trying to improve 1+acres where I'm trying to grow food. My ground is hard red clay that is so compacted, we have to use a backhoe to dig a large hole. I am getting nowhere and am about to give up (actually have already given up compared to how much I used to work. No matter what I put down or how I try I get nowhere. Hence why I'm wondering if I add food scraps and worms to a hole, would it help?
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I know my soil is dead. I know I need to add in organic matter. I have add what I can, but it's hard when I live on 5 1/2acres and am trying to improve 1+acres where I'm trying to grow food. My ground is hard red clay that is so compacted, we have to use a backhoe to dig a large hole. I am getting nowhere and am about to give up (actually have already given up compared to how much I used to work. No matter what I put down or how I try I get nowhere. Hence why I'm wondering if I add food scraps and worms to a hole, would it help?
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Jeramar
Worms need adequate food and moisture to survive. Dirt by itself would make a good bedding material as its loaded with grit but in the garden even if the worms were fed, moisture levels would become an issue without some kind of protection or organic matter. I'm sure if you take dirt or sand and fill up a bin with it, wet it down well and start adding blended food scraps the worms would be fine but in the garden moisture and food in my opinion could be a concern, hence the need for organic material.
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Worms need adequate food and moisture to survive. Dirt by itself would make a good bedding material as its loaded with grit but in the garden even if the worms were fed, moisture levels would become an issue without some kind of protection or organic matter. I'm sure if you take dirt or sand and fill up a bin with it, wet it down well and start adding blended food scraps the worms would be fine but in the garden moisture and food in my opinion could be a concern, hence the need for organic material.
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handmade
I started gardening last spring. I tore off the sod and poured a whole bag of garden soil and compost in a 3x5 mound. My soil is really bad clay. Mud and puddles when wet and hard like cement when dry. I had garden burnout as the weather got colder so I left some plants to rot in its place. Last week I started tidying up to get ready for the season and as I was pulling out old dead plants I was so surprised to see earthworms! I didnt put it there I promise. Nature is so amazing. They find a way!
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I started gardening last spring. I tore off the sod and poured a whole bag of garden soil and compost in a 3x5 mound. My soil is really bad clay. Mud and puddles when wet and hard like cement when dry. I had garden burnout as the weather got colder so I left some plants to rot in its place. Last week I started tidying up to get ready for the season and as I was pulling out old dead plants I was so surprised to see earthworms! I didnt put it there I promise. Nature is so amazing. They find a way!
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Leatha
Hey Kevin. Thanks for the upload. Your comment about the difference between earthworms and composting worms brings up a question. I pooped over to your store and was looking at the worm castings description and it said that its not screened as finely, which increases the chance of worm eggs and worms to be in it. Which kind of worms are used to produce the castings?
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Hey Kevin. Thanks for the upload. Your comment about the difference between earthworms and composting worms brings up a question. I pooped over to your store and was looking at the worm castings description and it said that its not screened as finely, which increases the chance of worm eggs and worms to be in it. Which kind of worms are used to produce the castings?
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Jerimiah
I was doing research and I wonder if the worms that showed up after the property was blown up (literally) have actually been hurting my soil.
Ive been trying to amend it. Almost all clay. Top layer is nice but directly underneath the compost, mulch, plants, and other organic matter. Its hard as a rock.
The worms loved the sod when I was a kid.
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I was doing research and I wonder if the worms that showed up after the property was blown up (literally) have actually been hurting my soil.
Ive been trying to amend it. Almost all clay. Top layer is nice but directly underneath the compost, mulch, plants, and other organic matter. Its hard as a rock.
The worms loved the sod when I was a kid.
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Dr.
I had an adobe block for a garden. I added TONS, LITERALLY, of leaves straw wood chips and manure in layers, then built raised beds with big box soil (lifeless) on top. I dont know where they came from but the soil this year is crawling with earthworms. Because Im not a biologist, I dont know their race or gender butthey make worm shit!
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I had an adobe block for a garden. I added TONS, LITERALLY, of leaves straw wood chips and manure in layers, then built raised beds with big box soil (lifeless) on top. I dont know where they came from but the soil this year is crawling with earthworms. Because Im not a biologist, I dont know their race or gender butthey make worm shit!
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