PC Fan Engineering, Noise, & GPU Coil Whine - Engineering Discussion ft. NVIDIA
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Date: 2024-04-10
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Comments and reviews: 20
gamersnexus
That was a lot of talk about fan blade design, but that is kind of not the issue with most GPUs these days. That would rather be motor noise and coil whine. From most modern GPUs, motor noise is killing silence at lower speeds, and for ducted GPUs, the whine is the only issue left.
Also, the design of the heatsink is just different to the CPU. Air cooling a CPU requires case height, while almost any GPU is designed for case dept and low height. On top of that, a lot of the air do not pass through a heat sink at all, in the GPU.
But sure, this was interesting, but given that a small duct and a modern fan sort of alleviates fan noise, even without all this gear showing here, I am sort of left wondering if the overall focus on the fan is totally misplaced.
Somehow wondering why so many 4080s whine, while so few 4090s does
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That was a lot of talk about fan blade design, but that is kind of not the issue with most GPUs these days. That would rather be motor noise and coil whine. From most modern GPUs, motor noise is killing silence at lower speeds, and for ducted GPUs, the whine is the only issue left.
Also, the design of the heatsink is just different to the CPU. Air cooling a CPU requires case height, while almost any GPU is designed for case dept and low height. On top of that, a lot of the air do not pass through a heat sink at all, in the GPU.
But sure, this was interesting, but given that a small duct and a modern fan sort of alleviates fan noise, even without all this gear showing here, I am sort of left wondering if the overall focus on the fan is totally misplaced.
Somehow wondering why so many 4080s whine, while so few 4090s does
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agentb4074
Malcolm! Great to see you on GN again! The information you provide, combined with your passion for your work, is a real joy to watch. (Also - I love your smile!)
This was really interesting to me - especially the stuff about fan blades. It's awesome to learn how my video card is cooled, and why it is so quiet. But to be honest, I'm gonna have to watch that Stall Region segment again, because it kinda went over my head. Haha...
And to GN: I love this type of content! More more more, please! :-D You manage to get really awesome guests. Malcom, TAP, Bill, and Amit are starting too feel like members of the GN family at this point.
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Malcolm! Great to see you on GN again! The information you provide, combined with your passion for your work, is a real joy to watch. (Also - I love your smile!)
This was really interesting to me - especially the stuff about fan blades. It's awesome to learn how my video card is cooled, and why it is so quiet. But to be honest, I'm gonna have to watch that Stall Region segment again, because it kinda went over my head. Haha...
And to GN: I love this type of content! More more more, please! :-D You manage to get really awesome guests. Malcom, TAP, Bill, and Amit are starting too feel like members of the GN family at this point.
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xatnys
I wonder if it'd be possible to do an analysis of the launch Steam Deck's Huayang and Delta fans and between their frequency response curves and loudness spectrums be able to quantify why one fan sounds more annoying than the other. The most basic observation might be that one fan's signature has more emphasis on tones and frequencies that are perceived to be annoying to the human ear, but it sounds like you could get quite a bit more detailed by identifying critical bands and overlapping tones and band 'closeness' resulting in modulation to really technically define why one fan sounds worse than the other.
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I wonder if it'd be possible to do an analysis of the launch Steam Deck's Huayang and Delta fans and between their frequency response curves and loudness spectrums be able to quantify why one fan sounds more annoying than the other. The most basic observation might be that one fan's signature has more emphasis on tones and frequencies that are perceived to be annoying to the human ear, but it sounds like you could get quite a bit more detailed by identifying critical bands and overlapping tones and band 'closeness' resulting in modulation to really technically define why one fan sounds worse than the other.
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GMCLabs
Man, I know ppl hate coil whine, but it actually feels nostalgic to me. Back in the day with analog tv and CRTs, you could hear that warm whiring sound, and it would change depending on what was on the tv. I especially remember it when the screen would go black in between commercials. Now you don't hear anything other than what you're watching, though sometimes I swear I can hear it on modern flat panels, and it does the same thing when the screen goes black between the scenes.
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Man, I know ppl hate coil whine, but it actually feels nostalgic to me. Back in the day with analog tv and CRTs, you could hear that warm whiring sound, and it would change depending on what was on the tv. I especially remember it when the screen would go black in between commercials. Now you don't hear anything other than what you're watching, though sometimes I swear I can hear it on modern flat panels, and it does the same thing when the screen goes black between the scenes.
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cppctek
As an audiophile and someone who obsesses over finding the perfect thermal solutions for every device I’ve put my hands on, this was truly one of if not the most fascinating and entertaining video I’ve seen in a long time. That guys an INCREDIBLE speaker and teacher. I was hooked in the entire time. All of it was so informative and easy to understand. This guy broke down everything perfectly! Thanks for covering this and sharing it. You guys are absolute legends
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As an audiophile and someone who obsesses over finding the perfect thermal solutions for every device I’ve put my hands on, this was truly one of if not the most fascinating and entertaining video I’ve seen in a long time. That guys an INCREDIBLE speaker and teacher. I was hooked in the entire time. All of it was so informative and easy to understand. This guy broke down everything perfectly! Thanks for covering this and sharing it. You guys are absolute legends
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ElectricEvan
Everything else about the ear was very insightful and approximately correct. However around 32:22 the inner ear doesn't act as an amplifier. There is only one active device in the ear and it's a muscle in the middle ear to act as an automatic gain control/mute for when the system is exposed to excessive sound pressure levels. It has the ability to add attenuation. - Signed Evan Foss engineer with 15 years in hearing research & electronics design.
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Everything else about the ear was very insightful and approximately correct. However around 32:22 the inner ear doesn't act as an amplifier. There is only one active device in the ear and it's a muscle in the middle ear to act as an automatic gain control/mute for when the system is exposed to excessive sound pressure levels. It has the ability to add attenuation. - Signed Evan Foss engineer with 15 years in hearing research & electronics design.
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AeroCluster
30:00 My case fans were getting annoying at higher RPMs, but they're NF-A12x25's, so I thought there wasn't much I could do to improve it in situations when high airflow is needed. Now it makes sense - the issue was probably modulation noise, since they're all plugged into a fan hub and running at the same rpm. I'm going to plug them all into separate fan headers and offset their fan curves to try to eliminate the modulation noise. Thanks Malcolm!
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30:00 My case fans were getting annoying at higher RPMs, but they're NF-A12x25's, so I thought there wasn't much I could do to improve it in situations when high airflow is needed. Now it makes sense - the issue was probably modulation noise, since they're all plugged into a fan hub and running at the same rpm. I'm going to plug them all into separate fan headers and offset their fan curves to try to eliminate the modulation noise. Thanks Malcolm!
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u9Nails
Does it hurt you when someone manually adjusts their fan RPM 26:53
HAHAHA!! I loved that question Steve! It made me laugh too!
Given all the years of education, engineered design, lab tests, iterations on product, and the goal to provide an optimal experience. Then, the end user just wipes their butt with that and goes full throttle because I'm uber uber leet and I need the fan noise picked up on my mic to tell everyone that I got mad skillz!
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Does it hurt you when someone manually adjusts their fan RPM 26:53
HAHAHA!! I loved that question Steve! It made me laugh too!
Given all the years of education, engineered design, lab tests, iterations on product, and the goal to provide an optimal experience. Then, the end user just wipes their butt with that and goes full throttle because I'm uber uber leet and I need the fan noise picked up on my mic to tell everyone that I got mad skillz!
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MinecraftSurge
this is pretty ass. Can't believe they have to build a giant lab to find out that slower moving wider fans make less noise. Also he asked him why do people still have fans with lots of blade, and the guy just dodged the question and explained that less blades are more better. Well the answer as to why people still make high blade fans is... everyone is dumb. I guess you have to become a trillion dollar company before you stop being dumb.
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this is pretty ass. Can't believe they have to build a giant lab to find out that slower moving wider fans make less noise. Also he asked him why do people still have fans with lots of blade, and the guy just dodged the question and explained that less blades are more better. Well the answer as to why people still make high blade fans is... everyone is dumb. I guess you have to become a trillion dollar company before you stop being dumb.
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Thor847200
So, what I get from this video, that now reinforces what I thought about for the previous video with the Nvidia guy in it, is that they are able to engineer the best possible fans with all kinds of very technical ability but they still can't figure how to engineer a fan that is easy to replace when it dies without having to completely disassemble the entire rest of the GPU. Great video otherwise.
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So, what I get from this video, that now reinforces what I thought about for the previous video with the Nvidia guy in it, is that they are able to engineer the best possible fans with all kinds of very technical ability but they still can't figure how to engineer a fan that is easy to replace when it dies without having to completely disassemble the entire rest of the GPU. Great video otherwise.
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gamersnexus
You know you're talking to the right guy, when they are ear-to-ear grinning the entire time with excitement.
Shout out to Malcolm, dude. I understand the individual references he's making when explaining things, but I know that what he's saying has 3-8 deeper layers internally. And that just makes me enjoy this entire thing even more.
Malcolm is That dude.
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You know you're talking to the right guy, when they are ear-to-ear grinning the entire time with excitement.
Shout out to Malcolm, dude. I understand the individual references he's making when explaining things, but I know that what he's saying has 3-8 deeper layers internally. And that just makes me enjoy this entire thing even more.
Malcolm is That dude.
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Wolverine607
Coil whine. Can you NVIDIA engineer the RTX 5090 to be free of it under all conditions please. The RTX 4090 was real bad and only the Gaming OC 4090 and some of them are not that bad but even they still have it a bit too much but the best of all bunches.
Please NVIDIA a whine free super quiet 5090. I am ok paying $1800 or even $2K for it.
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Coil whine. Can you NVIDIA engineer the RTX 5090 to be free of it under all conditions please. The RTX 4090 was real bad and only the Gaming OC 4090 and some of them are not that bad but even they still have it a bit too much but the best of all bunches.
Please NVIDIA a whine free super quiet 5090. I am ok paying $1800 or even $2K for it.
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Zzzxx2
I owned 2 RX 6000 cards both had terrible coil whine. My RX 6800 red devil had miserable coil whine and eventually had a capacitor pop and died. Luckily i got a refund but it's enough to where i would never buy a Radeon card until it's guaranteed no coil whine. I would also return any GPU that has noticeable whine as it sucks major ass.
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I owned 2 RX 6000 cards both had terrible coil whine. My RX 6800 red devil had miserable coil whine and eventually had a capacitor pop and died. Luckily i got a refund but it's enough to where i would never buy a Radeon card until it's guaranteed no coil whine. I would also return any GPU that has noticeable whine as it sucks major ass.
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FightingFalcon1980
The 2nd Fan sucking trough the 4080/4090 ist just an aestehetic stunt and muste have made the enginieers co crazy trying to get it to a decent level. Lifting the fan just 2mm improves the sound character of the card significantly. I cannot imagine that the sound and thermal engineers wanted this design.
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The 2nd Fan sucking trough the 4080/4090 ist just an aestehetic stunt and muste have made the enginieers co crazy trying to get it to a decent level. Lifting the fan just 2mm improves the sound character of the card significantly. I cannot imagine that the sound and thermal engineers wanted this design.
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jtland4842
This is so incredibly interesting and informative! The last video you did actually changed what type of engineering I am looking to go into. I could watch Malcolm talk for hours about this stuff. These kinds of videos makes me glad to have bought the GN coasters when they came out.
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This is so incredibly interesting and informative! The last video you did actually changed what type of engineering I am looking to go into. I could watch Malcolm talk for hours about this stuff. These kinds of videos makes me glad to have bought the GN coasters when they came out.
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MarcsSpark
I'd love to get a patreon video of what was left out of the video. I'd imagine you spent hours talking with Malcolm and this is a really interesting topic that i would love to learn more about. Once again, an amazing engineering discussion video. Great job GN team!
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I'd love to get a patreon video of what was left out of the video. I'd imagine you spent hours talking with Malcolm and this is a really interesting topic that i would love to learn more about. Once again, an amazing engineering discussion video. Great job GN team!
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Tekno560
I assume these videos get relatively few views compared to reviews and the like, so just wanted to say as a current engineer in school I really appreciate these types of videos.
Hell, even if I wasn't going into engineering I'd still love these deep dives.
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I assume these videos get relatively few views compared to reviews and the like, so just wanted to say as a current engineer in school I really appreciate these types of videos.
Hell, even if I wasn't going into engineering I'd still love these deep dives.
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gamersnexus
With all the control NVIDIA exerts over their partners coil whine or the sounds perceived as such should be one of the pressure points. Hey ASUS, would be great if the upcoming Blackwell RTX 5000 cards would whine less than your Lovelace RTX 4000 lineup.
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With all the control NVIDIA exerts over their partners coil whine or the sounds perceived as such should be one of the pressure points. Hey ASUS, would be great if the upcoming Blackwell RTX 5000 cards would whine less than your Lovelace RTX 4000 lineup.
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Powertampa
He seems to know the physics and math, but somehow Nvidia still manages to make pretty mediocre coolers for their cards. That's the big elephant in the room for me. All this effort and someone somewhere is basically muzzling this department. That's sad.
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He seems to know the physics and math, but somehow Nvidia still manages to make pretty mediocre coolers for their cards. That's the big elephant in the room for me. All this effort and someone somewhere is basically muzzling this department. That's sad.
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HanmaHeiro
My GPU had coil whine. It somehow disappeared after uninstalling and reinstalling when I was putting in a new CPU cooler. I could tell it was gone because I previously could hear it when just moving the slider on Tech Power Up resolution images
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My GPU had coil whine. It somehow disappeared after uninstalling and reinstalling when I was putting in a new CPU cooler. I could tell it was gone because I previously could hear it when just moving the slider on Tech Power Up resolution images
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