Why are there so many PC hardware launch supply problems? - Ask a PC expert
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Date: 2022-03-15
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Comments and reviews: 10
Peter
Here a question, why do motherboards still come with an empty CMOS-battery in 2019? I had one: Gigabyte Elite. I got the battery out to check if there is some insulator to prevent drainage before you use it, nope. I put it back: no result. I changed the direction because the geniuses of Gigabyte had the markings in black on black plastic. No result. I contacted the shop, the shops sent a new battery, I put it in and I didn't loose the BIOS settings every time that I turned off the PSU and unplugged it (I had reasons) or when an OC of the RAM did not stick and the BIOS reset. A brand new motherboard and still Gigabyte did not succeed at giving us a battery which works, that is impressive. What do they do? Do they have those batteries in sockets for years and only then install it in the motherboard?
As Adam suggested with his question, the 3900X got launched too early. AMD should have started with the 3600 to 3700X and release the 3900X later. Problem solved. It would also prevent the issue of some 3900X CPU's not getting the boost (>=4. 50 GHz) which was advertised. In general the software for Zen2 is immature. Tell me why it happens that enabling PO leads to a lower single-core boost, that doesn't make any sense. Tell me why the POST takes 13 seconds? There also are some other weird issues. It is the same story over again, AMD doesn't have the software ready at launch. We also saw this with Navi, nothing gamebreaking but a few serious issues. I understand that AMD has a much smaller software-team than the other two companies but they really need to fix this! Better use that extra Navi-profit for it.
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Here a question, why do motherboards still come with an empty CMOS-battery in 2019? I had one: Gigabyte Elite. I got the battery out to check if there is some insulator to prevent drainage before you use it, nope. I put it back: no result. I changed the direction because the geniuses of Gigabyte had the markings in black on black plastic. No result. I contacted the shop, the shops sent a new battery, I put it in and I didn't loose the BIOS settings every time that I turned off the PSU and unplugged it (I had reasons) or when an OC of the RAM did not stick and the BIOS reset. A brand new motherboard and still Gigabyte did not succeed at giving us a battery which works, that is impressive. What do they do? Do they have those batteries in sockets for years and only then install it in the motherboard?
As Adam suggested with his question, the 3900X got launched too early. AMD should have started with the 3600 to 3700X and release the 3900X later. Problem solved. It would also prevent the issue of some 3900X CPU's not getting the boost (>=4. 50 GHz) which was advertised. In general the software for Zen2 is immature. Tell me why it happens that enabling PO leads to a lower single-core boost, that doesn't make any sense. Tell me why the POST takes 13 seconds? There also are some other weird issues. It is the same story over again, AMD doesn't have the software ready at launch. We also saw this with Navi, nothing gamebreaking but a few serious issues. I understand that AMD has a much smaller software-team than the other two companies but they really need to fix this! Better use that extra Navi-profit for it.
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LFly
PCWorld: supply constraints with the i9 9900K last year and the i7 8700K the year before were completely artificially made by Shintel. They didn't know if they are gonna sell them at all. so they partially rolled out small batches to test the market and if it comes to a point that it doesn't sell at all at least that way they only have potential losses for a certain small batch of cpu-s that went to the market. It's a precautional tactic for not loosing too much money on a certain product in one quarter of a year. Shintel has been using this tactic since Ryzen launched back in 2017. They are seeing the numbers of sales as they in reality are and Shintel is affraid of their oversupplies. Ryzen is today selling 20: 1 compared to Shintel if we combine desktop, enthusiast and server markets together and Shintel knows that and are very aware of them being the No. 2 cpu manufacturer, believe me: .
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PCWorld: supply constraints with the i9 9900K last year and the i7 8700K the year before were completely artificially made by Shintel. They didn't know if they are gonna sell them at all. so they partially rolled out small batches to test the market and if it comes to a point that it doesn't sell at all at least that way they only have potential losses for a certain small batch of cpu-s that went to the market. It's a precautional tactic for not loosing too much money on a certain product in one quarter of a year. Shintel has been using this tactic since Ryzen launched back in 2017. They are seeing the numbers of sales as they in reality are and Shintel is affraid of their oversupplies. Ryzen is today selling 20: 1 compared to Shintel if we combine desktop, enthusiast and server markets together and Shintel knows that and are very aware of them being the No. 2 cpu manufacturer, believe me: .
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SH18
NEVER PRE-ORDER CPU OR GPU HARDWARE FROM AMAZON. 9900k pre-order $650, I pre-ordered about a two weeks in advance and the CPU was delayed indefinitely, it went 6 weeks after launch I still did not have my CPU, I was in a -wait line-, the customer service was horrible, I never got a clear answer except that they were sold out and when they got new shipments from Intel they would process orders again, where I was at in that wait list was never revealed, after 7 weeks went by I canceled my pre-order and also during that time they can take your $$$ from the bank if they finally ship it, so 7 weeks I kept extra money in my bank account waiting for them to process it and it was a hassle to deal with, I never knew amazon customer service was sooo bad. They also did not give a care package or a gift card or a -sorry we messed up- apology for never shipping my items.
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NEVER PRE-ORDER CPU OR GPU HARDWARE FROM AMAZON. 9900k pre-order $650, I pre-ordered about a two weeks in advance and the CPU was delayed indefinitely, it went 6 weeks after launch I still did not have my CPU, I was in a -wait line-, the customer service was horrible, I never got a clear answer except that they were sold out and when they got new shipments from Intel they would process orders again, where I was at in that wait list was never revealed, after 7 weeks went by I canceled my pre-order and also during that time they can take your $$$ from the bank if they finally ship it, so 7 weeks I kept extra money in my bank account waiting for them to process it and it was a hassle to deal with, I never knew amazon customer service was sooo bad. They also did not give a care package or a gift card or a -sorry we messed up- apology for never shipping my items.
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Downwith
Not correct vis-a-vis AMD 3900X. Its not a different SKU, but the same SKU, just a higher binned part. So that means they are able to FAB the CPUs' so they hit the lower specs of a e. g. 3600, but there is not enough tolerance in the FAB to get as many CPUs' to hit the 3900X mark, which also accounts for the 3950X launch delay. So AMD are having FAB issues/demand issues, not issues in manufacturing different SKUs (which isn't really surprising, given that Intel has been holding back the CPU market with 4 core nonsense for almost a decade, so that when a 12 core CPU is released into the mainstream at a realistic price, demand is exceptionally high. I'm holding out for the 3950X, but I'm guessing the wait will be exceptional too!
The Chiplets are identical, just better binned for those that hit the higher specs!
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Not correct vis-a-vis AMD 3900X. Its not a different SKU, but the same SKU, just a higher binned part. So that means they are able to FAB the CPUs' so they hit the lower specs of a e. g. 3600, but there is not enough tolerance in the FAB to get as many CPUs' to hit the 3900X mark, which also accounts for the 3950X launch delay. So AMD are having FAB issues/demand issues, not issues in manufacturing different SKUs (which isn't really surprising, given that Intel has been holding back the CPU market with 4 core nonsense for almost a decade, so that when a 12 core CPU is released into the mainstream at a realistic price, demand is exceptionally high. I'm holding out for the 3950X, but I'm guessing the wait will be exceptional too!
The Chiplets are identical, just better binned for those that hit the higher specs!
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TrickOrTreatAZ
Certain retailers such as Best Buy were very slow to fill online orders (or slow to remove them from being ordered, my 3900x order placed on 7/9/19 still showed delayed when I was able to place another 3900x order when the skew showed in stock last week and which has shipped.
Also curious was the 3800x also was unavailable. The fact that availability issues which seemed to only affect the 2 high performance/highest priced skews indicates the logical thought that AMD was being conservative and produced the most volume with the more affordable 3600/3600x and 3700x skews.
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Certain retailers such as Best Buy were very slow to fill online orders (or slow to remove them from being ordered, my 3900x order placed on 7/9/19 still showed delayed when I was able to place another 3900x order when the skew showed in stock last week and which has shipped.
Also curious was the 3800x also was unavailable. The fact that availability issues which seemed to only affect the 2 high performance/highest priced skews indicates the logical thought that AMD was being conservative and produced the most volume with the more affordable 3600/3600x and 3700x skews.
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drunkredninja
In theory pre-order works but I couldn't pick up right away so 3 days later they sold my parts. I threatened to burn the mf'er down and got a refund and picked up a discounted 3600 instead based on Ryzen's history of the 2600 and 1600 parts being the best bang for the buck. I was also lucky because that included a 2070 super, definately getting a 5700xt now.
So the problem really is all of the above but I'd like to think ole Johnny boy part timer over at the brick and mortars just mess things up for everyone. I work hard for my capitalist pig money, gimme what I'm owed.
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In theory pre-order works but I couldn't pick up right away so 3 days later they sold my parts. I threatened to burn the mf'er down and got a refund and picked up a discounted 3600 instead based on Ryzen's history of the 2600 and 1600 parts being the best bang for the buck. I was also lucky because that included a 2070 super, definately getting a 5700xt now.
So the problem really is all of the above but I'd like to think ole Johnny boy part timer over at the brick and mortars just mess things up for everyone. I work hard for my capitalist pig money, gimme what I'm owed.
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True
Limited supply at launch is there to protect both customers and chip manufacturers. Say the product is a dud with low volume sales, manufacturers make less products and don't suffer a huge loss. Say the product is a hit but like with 3900X you couldn't play Destiny 2 at Ryzen launch and had to wait for code improvements just to launch the game or experienced board compatibility issues. Fewer buyers at launch means fewer angry customers. Early adopters are used to dealing with -growing pains- but not everyone. Gradual adoption helps both sides equally.
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Limited supply at launch is there to protect both customers and chip manufacturers. Say the product is a dud with low volume sales, manufacturers make less products and don't suffer a huge loss. Say the product is a hit but like with 3900X you couldn't play Destiny 2 at Ryzen launch and had to wait for code improvements just to launch the game or experienced board compatibility issues. Fewer buyers at launch means fewer angry customers. Early adopters are used to dealing with -growing pains- but not everyone. Gradual adoption helps both sides equally.
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Mr.
Bro, im still waiting for your audio comparison: SXFI USB vs Sennheiser GSX100 USB
I already own the GSX1000 and just ordered the SXFI from eBay [someone disappointed with its performance sold it, but at least he said he like audio, not games so thats OK, i like games and movies, not music and i only care about most realistic surround sound trough headphones]
But Im Graphics kinda guy, i cant compare musical things, I cant say which one is better, so i still hope to see your SXFI vs Sennheiser GSX100
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Bro, im still waiting for your audio comparison: SXFI USB vs Sennheiser GSX100 USB
I already own the GSX1000 and just ordered the SXFI from eBay [someone disappointed with its performance sold it, but at least he said he like audio, not games so thats OK, i like games and movies, not music and i only care about most realistic surround sound trough headphones]
But Im Graphics kinda guy, i cant compare musical things, I cant say which one is better, so i still hope to see your SXFI vs Sennheiser GSX100
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jafo1701
At midnight eastern on release day I checked the NewEgg site and refreshed the page every 5 minutes, since they dont allow preorders. It was about 2 hours before the 3900x popped up as in stock. At the time the X570 boards didn't show as in stock yet. I thought that I might wait to put them on the same order, but decided I would just eat the two separate shipping charges. Lucky I did because it was sold out within 30 minutes. The X570 Aorus master didn't show in stock until around 0400.
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At midnight eastern on release day I checked the NewEgg site and refreshed the page every 5 minutes, since they dont allow preorders. It was about 2 hours before the 3900x popped up as in stock. At the time the X570 boards didn't show as in stock yet. I thought that I might wait to put them on the same order, but decided I would just eat the two separate shipping charges. Lucky I did because it was sold out within 30 minutes. The X570 Aorus master didn't show in stock until around 0400.
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bigsportsman
I think the vendors/manufacturers could get review samples out sooner. They then could allow reviewers to publish a 2-3 weeks before launch and accept -pre-orders- after embargo lift. Now I know they WON'T EVER do that. But it could help customers finalize purchase decisions and Manufacturer/Vendors gauge demand so that they can ramp up production of one particular part in a line. Again I say THIS WON'T EVER REALLY HAPPEN, but boy wouldn't it nice if it did?
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I think the vendors/manufacturers could get review samples out sooner. They then could allow reviewers to publish a 2-3 weeks before launch and accept -pre-orders- after embargo lift. Now I know they WON'T EVER do that. But it could help customers finalize purchase decisions and Manufacturer/Vendors gauge demand so that they can ramp up production of one particular part in a line. Again I say THIS WON'T EVER REALLY HAPPEN, but boy wouldn't it nice if it did?
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