So You Think It Needs A Starter.
video description
Date: 2024-06-26
Related videos
Comments and reviews: 20
dannylinc6247
If your shop foreman was a stickler, and in on the writeup, that's where you might get afforded diagnostic time.
Everyone expects to replace a starter and still might.
When you ask for your diagnostic time by the state guidelines, they call you a P. I. T. A.
I had one like that once, it was like pulling teeth to get the standard.
The front desk diagnoses a starter that should last. just not this one.
I asked for my pre checks and testing time.
Their eyes were drilling holes in me.
Turned out it had a car lot key circuit interrupt add on tucked up in the dash with the key half way coming out.
Then I got yelled at for always being right,
but I didn't know.
It just bothered me.
Hurry up, hurry up, shortcut, no tests, get that starter in there, boy. You're dumb, we have ties on. There's never any dirt on us.
All it pays is an hour.
Are you done yet
It troubles an apprentice who attends night school training and they do this diagnostic work, there, and talk about all their experiences.
He goes to work, the next day, then they try to hang him out to dry.
Eric knows, and he has a camera running, so he says, wait a sec.
That POS costs $300.
Amazing.
After the fact it all adds up.
Chincy parts connected to lighter duty parts, that connect to a strange looking tall long, skinny battery.
I don't know about you, but there's a sixth sense that develops, after hearing the lead up story.
Thanks for the re-lesson on VD. Every good young man must be abreast with VD.
As an apprentice, your instructor may also show army training films. And that's the fact Jack.
Lol.
Nice job as always Eric O.
May the electromotive force be with you, always.
reply
If your shop foreman was a stickler, and in on the writeup, that's where you might get afforded diagnostic time.
Everyone expects to replace a starter and still might.
When you ask for your diagnostic time by the state guidelines, they call you a P. I. T. A.
I had one like that once, it was like pulling teeth to get the standard.
The front desk diagnoses a starter that should last. just not this one.
I asked for my pre checks and testing time.
Their eyes were drilling holes in me.
Turned out it had a car lot key circuit interrupt add on tucked up in the dash with the key half way coming out.
Then I got yelled at for always being right,
but I didn't know.
It just bothered me.
Hurry up, hurry up, shortcut, no tests, get that starter in there, boy. You're dumb, we have ties on. There's never any dirt on us.
All it pays is an hour.
Are you done yet
It troubles an apprentice who attends night school training and they do this diagnostic work, there, and talk about all their experiences.
He goes to work, the next day, then they try to hang him out to dry.
Eric knows, and he has a camera running, so he says, wait a sec.
That POS costs $300.
Amazing.
After the fact it all adds up.
Chincy parts connected to lighter duty parts, that connect to a strange looking tall long, skinny battery.
I don't know about you, but there's a sixth sense that develops, after hearing the lead up story.
Thanks for the re-lesson on VD. Every good young man must be abreast with VD.
As an apprentice, your instructor may also show army training films. And that's the fact Jack.
Lol.
Nice job as always Eric O.
May the electromotive force be with you, always.
reply
brianhind6149
Eric. as a lifetime electronics troubleshooter, I often smile at some of your explanations. Certainly not the way I would explain it, but you are demonstrating techniques to people watching you troubleshoot. Your explanations are excellent. When I have been called upon to teach people techniques, I am talking to folks who have an in depth understanding of the circuitry involved. My
explanations would only serve to confuse your followers. I have watched your videos since day one,
& I am always intrigued by your explanations, that are just as if we were all standing beside you.
My God! You provide intensive learning for your followers, without sounding like a college professor, or like some of the nitwits that I have come across that have NO idea what they are talking about. Ivan & Scanner Danner are also good, but Scanner Danner speaks too rapidly, & occasionally
misses a link in the diagnosis. I mean that he omits a link in the diagnosis chain that is of no consequence to people who have electrical knowledge, but may be confusing to those who are just starting to learn. This is an observation, NOT a criticism! Further, it is not a regular event in his explanations. Eric, technical schools need people like yourself & your colleagues to bring their students to your & your colleagues level of expertise. Carry on Sir. first class trouble shooting techniques await your followers.
Cheers! from the wind swept Prairies of Alberta Canada.
reply
Eric. as a lifetime electronics troubleshooter, I often smile at some of your explanations. Certainly not the way I would explain it, but you are demonstrating techniques to people watching you troubleshoot. Your explanations are excellent. When I have been called upon to teach people techniques, I am talking to folks who have an in depth understanding of the circuitry involved. My
explanations would only serve to confuse your followers. I have watched your videos since day one,
& I am always intrigued by your explanations, that are just as if we were all standing beside you.
My God! You provide intensive learning for your followers, without sounding like a college professor, or like some of the nitwits that I have come across that have NO idea what they are talking about. Ivan & Scanner Danner are also good, but Scanner Danner speaks too rapidly, & occasionally
misses a link in the diagnosis. I mean that he omits a link in the diagnosis chain that is of no consequence to people who have electrical knowledge, but may be confusing to those who are just starting to learn. This is an observation, NOT a criticism! Further, it is not a regular event in his explanations. Eric, technical schools need people like yourself & your colleagues to bring their students to your & your colleagues level of expertise. Carry on Sir. first class trouble shooting techniques await your followers.
Cheers! from the wind swept Prairies of Alberta Canada.
reply
jpol3808
Thanks again Eric. As usual another fabulous diagnosis! I have noticed that the cable ends are getting thinner and cheaper a year's go by and most have a lot more cables hooked to them than the one wire off of each that they used to have back in the day. I have found that the copper or brass cable clamps electricians use, work rather well for extending wire and if it's a friend who needs to extend their budget I'll use a couple of those to extend those cables to a new replacement cable end. I know your a shop and have to fix them too mfg specs for obvious reasons but after that door closes and your friend and you are hanging out fixing their problem. It's all good. That is unless you got some back stabbing friends you don't really need! Hey great video. Love the smoke testing method for sure! My brother in law used that method and his pickup caught fire while he was asleep! Lol Later! J Poll.
reply
Thanks again Eric. As usual another fabulous diagnosis! I have noticed that the cable ends are getting thinner and cheaper a year's go by and most have a lot more cables hooked to them than the one wire off of each that they used to have back in the day. I have found that the copper or brass cable clamps electricians use, work rather well for extending wire and if it's a friend who needs to extend their budget I'll use a couple of those to extend those cables to a new replacement cable end. I know your a shop and have to fix them too mfg specs for obvious reasons but after that door closes and your friend and you are hanging out fixing their problem. It's all good. That is unless you got some back stabbing friends you don't really need! Hey great video. Love the smoke testing method for sure! My brother in law used that method and his pickup caught fire while he was asleep! Lol Later! J Poll.
reply
billcunningham8485
I have a 2003 Element with the same engine. Had a bad original starter after 10 years and 150K shop replaced the starter with an aftermarket which was bad out of the box. The shop did NOT pull the intake when they needed to replace the starter again the next day doing that they destroyed the wiring harness to the knock sensor which is also right there. Didn’t tell me about that damage. A few years later when I needed yet another starter as the aftermarket one was dead my new non dealer Honda mechanic needed to call in a few favors to get a full harness to splice in the correct wires and connectors into the knock sensor. With time and corrosion it was throwing codes fixed now with a Honda OEM starter. 211, 000 miles on my 21 year old Element. Still love it. Best car I have ever owned.
reply
I have a 2003 Element with the same engine. Had a bad original starter after 10 years and 150K shop replaced the starter with an aftermarket which was bad out of the box. The shop did NOT pull the intake when they needed to replace the starter again the next day doing that they destroyed the wiring harness to the knock sensor which is also right there. Didn’t tell me about that damage. A few years later when I needed yet another starter as the aftermarket one was dead my new non dealer Honda mechanic needed to call in a few favors to get a full harness to splice in the correct wires and connectors into the knock sensor. With time and corrosion it was throwing codes fixed now with a Honda OEM starter. 211, 000 miles on my 21 year old Element. Still love it. Best car I have ever owned.
reply
johnchambers12
I love to share my experience with a customer telling me he needed a starter. I found voltage drop on the negative cable and replaced the cable from the battery to the block with the negative cable on my 25 foot long jumper cables. I then went inside the car and turned the key to the sound of the engine starting i then checked the cable ends and found the end that was attached to the block had corroded so bad that the plastic cover on the cable was the only thing that supported 2 inches of that cable. I had to remove almost 3 inches of the cover on that negative cable before i found the nice copper color i was looking for. I replaced the $14 cable and bolt instead of the price of that new starter which at that time was about $80 my price. Good video as always Sir!
reply
I love to share my experience with a customer telling me he needed a starter. I found voltage drop on the negative cable and replaced the cable from the battery to the block with the negative cable on my 25 foot long jumper cables. I then went inside the car and turned the key to the sound of the engine starting i then checked the cable ends and found the end that was attached to the block had corroded so bad that the plastic cover on the cable was the only thing that supported 2 inches of that cable. I had to remove almost 3 inches of the cover on that negative cable before i found the nice copper color i was looking for. I replaced the $14 cable and bolt instead of the price of that new starter which at that time was about $80 my price. Good video as always Sir!
reply
kittty2005
I was the first person to solve this problem on the first computerized GM car at the driving range at the Championship Golf Course at Boyne Mountain. These men from AC Spark plug division couldn't get their car started and couldn't figure out the problem. Same symptoms but the car was very warm ambient temp was 90 or so and there was that infernal computer. It suffered from the same type of corrosion I cleaned the battery terminal and recommended a new battery (cracked plastic at post) and new battery cable. The car started and they were off to another golf course at Boyne Highlands. Yep a 1972 Buick Riviera the computer filled every open space under the hood, and they had 5 engineers in that car and they weren't sure of the problem. A long time ago.
reply
I was the first person to solve this problem on the first computerized GM car at the driving range at the Championship Golf Course at Boyne Mountain. These men from AC Spark plug division couldn't get their car started and couldn't figure out the problem. Same symptoms but the car was very warm ambient temp was 90 or so and there was that infernal computer. It suffered from the same type of corrosion I cleaned the battery terminal and recommended a new battery (cracked plastic at post) and new battery cable. The car started and they were off to another golf course at Boyne Highlands. Yep a 1972 Buick Riviera the computer filled every open space under the hood, and they had 5 engineers in that car and they weren't sure of the problem. A long time ago.
reply
autorepair
Here's an interesting case study: An independent repair shop had installed three starters for a no-crank condition. Each time, after backing the vehicle out of the shop and assuring the customer it was good to go, the vehicle still wouldn't start when the customer came to pick it up. This parts changer blamed the product, but it turned out to be a bad battery cable. When talking with the shop owner, he admitted he didn’t know how to do a voltage drop test. To add insult to injury, this parts changer wanted a labor claim. LOL. I pointed out to him that this was the cost of learning how important it is to perform a voltage drop test before replacing a starter or alternator. I believe he still charged the customer for a new starter. Ouch!
reply
Here's an interesting case study: An independent repair shop had installed three starters for a no-crank condition. Each time, after backing the vehicle out of the shop and assuring the customer it was good to go, the vehicle still wouldn't start when the customer came to pick it up. This parts changer blamed the product, but it turned out to be a bad battery cable. When talking with the shop owner, he admitted he didn’t know how to do a voltage drop test. To add insult to injury, this parts changer wanted a labor claim. LOL. I pointed out to him that this was the cost of learning how important it is to perform a voltage drop test before replacing a starter or alternator. I believe he still charged the customer for a new starter. Ouch!
reply
autorepair
In the 70s , fords and others, every now and then would start clicking like here, usually it was a bad/dirty connection, battery cable, burnt solenoid contacts, low or bad battery, bad or low out put alternator, generator or regulator, once in a while a bad starter motor, the point is the starter does not click, the solenoid does the clicking and some have 2 solenoids. Now days, all this excess garbage circuits being put into vehicles that absolutely were not necessary years ago for a vehicle work correctly and be more reliable = excessive over engineering = $$$$$$. As you seen here, if you do not crimp and solder and shrink wrap battery wire ends, expect the worst. That Eric has a head on him like a house cat, dont he. L O L
reply
In the 70s , fords and others, every now and then would start clicking like here, usually it was a bad/dirty connection, battery cable, burnt solenoid contacts, low or bad battery, bad or low out put alternator, generator or regulator, once in a while a bad starter motor, the point is the starter does not click, the solenoid does the clicking and some have 2 solenoids. Now days, all this excess garbage circuits being put into vehicles that absolutely were not necessary years ago for a vehicle work correctly and be more reliable = excessive over engineering = $$$$$$. As you seen here, if you do not crimp and solder and shrink wrap battery wire ends, expect the worst. That Eric has a head on him like a house cat, dont he. L O L
reply
nzcyclone
Would I have thrown a new starter in straight away no, simply because they are a darn expensive item for what they are. My next step would have been to run a temporary wire from the battery to the starter. Only then if that also failed would I have replaced the starter. But doing that would have told me it was a wiring / connection issue anyways. So would have started to go digging at connectors. Although getting a new wiring loom from the dealer is not going to be that cheap either. Would I just get the correct wire size and run a new wire (well two in this case) Possibly, not going to lie it would depend on how much the wiring loom is. Keep safe everyone and take care: )
reply
Would I have thrown a new starter in straight away no, simply because they are a darn expensive item for what they are. My next step would have been to run a temporary wire from the battery to the starter. Only then if that also failed would I have replaced the starter. But doing that would have told me it was a wiring / connection issue anyways. So would have started to go digging at connectors. Although getting a new wiring loom from the dealer is not going to be that cheap either. Would I just get the correct wire size and run a new wire (well two in this case) Possibly, not going to lie it would depend on how much the wiring loom is. Keep safe everyone and take care: )
reply
JimmyD818
I got bit by this many years ago. After firing the parts cannon for a few days, I pulled the battery and put another one in. Fired right up. Side post battery had a post fail internally. Had great voltage, lights and accessories all worked fine, just couldn’t pass the amps that the starter needed. Hard knocks lesson for an untrained mechanic. Self taught can be frustrating and expensive, but it’s one of the many lessons I never forgot!
Replaced starter, cables, neutral safety switch, and finally the battery. I got a lot of bad advice from other shadetree mechanics. Auto shop would have been better than English literature for my life skills
reply
I got bit by this many years ago. After firing the parts cannon for a few days, I pulled the battery and put another one in. Fired right up. Side post battery had a post fail internally. Had great voltage, lights and accessories all worked fine, just couldn’t pass the amps that the starter needed. Hard knocks lesson for an untrained mechanic. Self taught can be frustrating and expensive, but it’s one of the many lessons I never forgot!
Replaced starter, cables, neutral safety switch, and finally the battery. I got a lot of bad advice from other shadetree mechanics. Auto shop would have been better than English literature for my life skills
reply
StephenCole1916
Years ago I had a Chrysler Pacifica that wasn't charging the battery properly. This manifested like a dying battery so everyone was saying that I needed a new battery. I thought better of this and started testing voltages and when I looked at the alternator connection, it had come loose and slowly arch welded the screw but was not making good contact. I was able to the the post off, trim half an inch off it, put a new screw in, and put it back, reattach the cable and voila! It worked perfectly fine for the next three years I owned it. I didn't really get a chance to do a voltage drop test because I was able to see the damaged post.
reply
Years ago I had a Chrysler Pacifica that wasn't charging the battery properly. This manifested like a dying battery so everyone was saying that I needed a new battery. I thought better of this and started testing voltages and when I looked at the alternator connection, it had come loose and slowly arch welded the screw but was not making good contact. I was able to the the post off, trim half an inch off it, put a new screw in, and put it back, reattach the cable and voila! It worked perfectly fine for the next three years I owned it. I didn't really get a chance to do a voltage drop test because I was able to see the damaged post.
reply
graysona1800
beware Eric. O! the Mazda 3 appears to have an issue with it's genuine main starter lead also! On the battery terminal, the white lead that goes to the starter motor comes loose and starts arcing out and melting the lead. If left like this, the lead gets all carboned up and stops making a good connection and may also lead to aggravated corrosion. Keep an eye out, and I'm sure glad I know you can buy aftermarket terminals that look like the one shown in the video. Here in Aus, most of our aftermarket terminals are made of brass which can make it pretty obvious when one has been replaced.
reply
beware Eric. O! the Mazda 3 appears to have an issue with it's genuine main starter lead also! On the battery terminal, the white lead that goes to the starter motor comes loose and starts arcing out and melting the lead. If left like this, the lead gets all carboned up and stops making a good connection and may also lead to aggravated corrosion. Keep an eye out, and I'm sure glad I know you can buy aftermarket terminals that look like the one shown in the video. Here in Aus, most of our aftermarket terminals are made of brass which can make it pretty obvious when one has been replaced.
reply
firstielasty1162
Thermal imager would have shown the hot crimp before letting the smoke out. but, no, I would not have done that first. I would have been getting at the starter, too.
I have the same accord, and the starter brushes were wasted at 80k. not real impressed. I used to work on Honda motorcycles, saw some short lived brushes there, too. There was usually an oil seal between starter and engine, which would fail also, then oil would get into the brushes and make nasty goo. Carbon/copper dust mixed with burnt oil.
Honda should buy starters from Toyota.
reply
Thermal imager would have shown the hot crimp before letting the smoke out. but, no, I would not have done that first. I would have been getting at the starter, too.
I have the same accord, and the starter brushes were wasted at 80k. not real impressed. I used to work on Honda motorcycles, saw some short lived brushes there, too. There was usually an oil seal between starter and engine, which would fail also, then oil would get into the brushes and make nasty goo. Carbon/copper dust mixed with burnt oil.
Honda should buy starters from Toyota.
reply
scowell
Yep. first thing on click-click I do is go for the battery cables. got burnt recently, literally. blistered two fingers on my right hand. Sometimes the starter has a shorted winding, and it will stop in exactly that spot, and you can get it started with a jump if you're lucky. Bro's Tahoe, brand new battery, click-click. oh, it's just a loose connection. very lucky the insulation did not stick or I'd have had more than 2nd degree blisters. maybe even blistered lips, the fingers went in the mouth immediately. Can't wait for the iPhone XX with infra-red.
reply
Yep. first thing on click-click I do is go for the battery cables. got burnt recently, literally. blistered two fingers on my right hand. Sometimes the starter has a shorted winding, and it will stop in exactly that spot, and you can get it started with a jump if you're lucky. Bro's Tahoe, brand new battery, click-click. oh, it's just a loose connection. very lucky the insulation did not stick or I'd have had more than 2nd degree blisters. maybe even blistered lips, the fingers went in the mouth immediately. Can't wait for the iPhone XX with infra-red.
reply
thatdave86
Easy check, grab a jumper lead, go from the positive battery to the starter terminal and see if it starts, and that is after checking earth contacts and the igniter wire terminals.
Eric you forgot the three pound hammer tap just to be sure
People who are Car enthusiasts have some degree of workshop knowledge to sort these things out and they know that it's always something not obvious, others have No clue whatsoever, this they pay the premium of the workshop charges and trial and error with the parts Cannon fired off at their pride in joy
reply
Easy check, grab a jumper lead, go from the positive battery to the starter terminal and see if it starts, and that is after checking earth contacts and the igniter wire terminals.
Eric you forgot the three pound hammer tap just to be sure
People who are Car enthusiasts have some degree of workshop knowledge to sort these things out and they know that it's always something not obvious, others have No clue whatsoever, this they pay the premium of the workshop charges and trial and error with the parts Cannon fired off at their pride in joy
reply
spelunkerd
I love the way you showed how to do active drop testing even when you don't want to turn the key when intake is off. The common excuse by pros is that it is too much trouble to do drop testing when you can't get at the terminals without major surgery. Once they do that, they feel committed. Time and again you show how drop testing doesn't need to be a time waster, you do it quickly and efficiently. The trick is to select a few quick, reliable screening tests and move on with your day if those tests check out.
reply
I love the way you showed how to do active drop testing even when you don't want to turn the key when intake is off. The common excuse by pros is that it is too much trouble to do drop testing when you can't get at the terminals without major surgery. Once they do that, they feel committed. Time and again you show how drop testing doesn't need to be a time waster, you do it quickly and efficiently. The trick is to select a few quick, reliable screening tests and move on with your day if those tests check out.
reply
rego3167
I used to work repairing semi trailers, liked fixing shorts in lights in winter. Hook up a charger to wire, turn on high and wait for the steam to start rising. lol. But, I digress from topic. I helped a guy work on his car for 2 days to get it running. Car would start but run very rough and die when you put it in gear. Tried new spark plugs, new spark plug wires and then wiggled the battery ground cable, which was so corroded halfway to the starter that it broke in half. New cable, problem fixed.
reply
I used to work repairing semi trailers, liked fixing shorts in lights in winter. Hook up a charger to wire, turn on high and wait for the steam to start rising. lol. But, I digress from topic. I helped a guy work on his car for 2 days to get it running. Car would start but run very rough and die when you put it in gear. Tried new spark plugs, new spark plug wires and then wiggled the battery ground cable, which was so corroded halfway to the starter that it broke in half. New cable, problem fixed.
reply
bobhudson6659
You forgot the magic can of smoke. Sparkies told me many years ago to get an aerosol can of smoke. If the electrical problem occurs and a motor or something else dies, and the dead unit emits smoke, then putting the smoke back in fixes all the problems. And of course I believed them. Same as the apprentice being sent to the store to get a can of striped paint. You must be an amateur Eric. Retired mechanic/machinist in Land Down Under. Laugh - I am!
reply
You forgot the magic can of smoke. Sparkies told me many years ago to get an aerosol can of smoke. If the electrical problem occurs and a motor or something else dies, and the dead unit emits smoke, then putting the smoke back in fixes all the problems. And of course I believed them. Same as the apprentice being sent to the store to get a can of striped paint. You must be an amateur Eric. Retired mechanic/machinist in Land Down Under. Laugh - I am!
reply
topherd1011
Idk Eric. I probably would have checked the condition of the wiring at the battery before anything especially if I lived where you live because that shit happens way down here too! I’ve had it occur so often at the battery. I probably would have split all the looms at the battery and taken a look also considering the guy says he changed the battery I really do think I would have looked there first. At least they get a new intake gasket!
reply
Idk Eric. I probably would have checked the condition of the wiring at the battery before anything especially if I lived where you live because that shit happens way down here too! I’ve had it occur so often at the battery. I probably would have split all the looms at the battery and taken a look also considering the guy says he changed the battery I really do think I would have looked there first. At least they get a new intake gasket!
reply
tubeDude48
My brother-in-law has a crappy Nissan, and he changed the starter BEFORE coming to me. Well, the new starter didn't work either! There is a VERY small wire that bonds the chassis to the block. So I jumped it with a large wire, and, low-and-be-hold- it started. He never listens to me, so he ended up pulling to new starter and took it back. He also pulled the fuse block and center console! What a putts!
reply
My brother-in-law has a crappy Nissan, and he changed the starter BEFORE coming to me. Well, the new starter didn't work either! There is a VERY small wire that bonds the chassis to the block. So I jumped it with a large wire, and, low-and-be-hold- it started. He never listens to me, so he ended up pulling to new starter and took it back. He also pulled the fuse block and center console! What a putts!
reply
Add a review, comment
Other channel videos
