The Shocking Truth About Americas Bail System Revealed.
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Date: 2019-11-01
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Comments and reviews: 9
xtecht
First of all, agree that the bail bond system is archaic and, regardless of how it started, really just lining peoples' pockets -- I think that there's even a bail-bond industry is enough to know that it's for-profit and not for public safety or anything innocent. Love these videos, usually agree with everything. Disagree with Amber Rose Howard's story as a good example and how it was framed in this case, however. I don't think you can begin a segment with, Like any normal teenager. and then conclude with her admitting to robbing a store like it's just what you do on Tuesday. This isn't normal teenage behavior And, in spite of all the reasons the system is unfair, it's difficult to be on her side because she's presenting the fact that she was detained for burglary as an injustice. And then, later, she describes how the new system would have been unfair for her and NOT immediately grant her freedom. To me, it doesn't really matter how scared you were, how straight your A's were, or how great the desire for reform is. Being the get-away driver for a burglary is not normal teenage behavior, so the other expectations of normalcy need to be reconsidered. Similarly, near the end, I can't agree completely with it being viewed as unfair that a husband was detained away from his family on charges of domestic violence. Uniqueness of this situation aside, if ever there is a case where the police need to remove someone for domestic violence, isn't detention of the individual the safest thing for the family? What are the ways you can remove someone from the home/area that completely prevent someone from seeking retaliation against the family for going to the police until such time that it can be assured they don't want to do harm? I don't bring this up to say you shouldn't cover it or that their stories aren't worthy of being shared. It's just that, in my opinion, the way they were presented and the areas focused upon could be improved. Thanks for the videos, Phil and entire team, I hope they keep coming.
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First of all, agree that the bail bond system is archaic and, regardless of how it started, really just lining peoples' pockets -- I think that there's even a bail-bond industry is enough to know that it's for-profit and not for public safety or anything innocent. Love these videos, usually agree with everything. Disagree with Amber Rose Howard's story as a good example and how it was framed in this case, however. I don't think you can begin a segment with, Like any normal teenager. and then conclude with her admitting to robbing a store like it's just what you do on Tuesday. This isn't normal teenage behavior And, in spite of all the reasons the system is unfair, it's difficult to be on her side because she's presenting the fact that she was detained for burglary as an injustice. And then, later, she describes how the new system would have been unfair for her and NOT immediately grant her freedom. To me, it doesn't really matter how scared you were, how straight your A's were, or how great the desire for reform is. Being the get-away driver for a burglary is not normal teenage behavior, so the other expectations of normalcy need to be reconsidered. Similarly, near the end, I can't agree completely with it being viewed as unfair that a husband was detained away from his family on charges of domestic violence. Uniqueness of this situation aside, if ever there is a case where the police need to remove someone for domestic violence, isn't detention of the individual the safest thing for the family? What are the ways you can remove someone from the home/area that completely prevent someone from seeking retaliation against the family for going to the police until such time that it can be assured they don't want to do harm? I don't bring this up to say you shouldn't cover it or that their stories aren't worthy of being shared. It's just that, in my opinion, the way they were presented and the areas focused upon could be improved. Thanks for the videos, Phil and entire team, I hope they keep coming.
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zoryvett rodriguez
Okay I just wanted to start off by saying the girl talking about her Father in a domestic violence is so out of touch with reality it's ridiculous. I wanted to say that first before I talk about me actually liking the video. It gives me a unique prospective. Let's be clear though her Father was accused of Domestic Violence(which for someone who lived with my father abusing my mother I can tell you that unless my mother was calling the cops on him no one did) and he was a risk to his family because he was accused of Domestic Violence. So your solution to him not having a bond (and your defense for not going through with a bill that gets rid of bonds) is to give him separate housing so he can continue to provide for your family? The winds are out of the sails. You're father wasn't a danger? This girl is like he went to jail, told he was a risk (because of the Domestic Violence accusation) and he couldn't provide for us? Like guuuuurl I can't take you seriously AT ALL He deserves a bond because y'all don't have a provider. I can't. Then the first girl. Okay so the story almost starts off as if she was falsely accused but it turns out she was aiding and abetting in a robbery that must of been planned out. Okay it was good she was out and her rehabilitation proves she was remorseful but she thinks that the way the new system was set up that she would't have been out. The thing that took me by surprise is the amount of police was sent her way. Helicopters? Dogs? Um that sounds a lot more serious than a little shoplifting but okay. The bail system benefitted her and she redeemed herself but she is literally the exception to the rule and the bail system doesn't work for people who can't get the money together in two weeks. Her family got there but trust me I have been there and the money was not gathered in two weeks. It benefitted her but what about the families below the poverty line who aren't aiding and abetting in a felony robbery?
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Okay I just wanted to start off by saying the girl talking about her Father in a domestic violence is so out of touch with reality it's ridiculous. I wanted to say that first before I talk about me actually liking the video. It gives me a unique prospective. Let's be clear though her Father was accused of Domestic Violence(which for someone who lived with my father abusing my mother I can tell you that unless my mother was calling the cops on him no one did) and he was a risk to his family because he was accused of Domestic Violence. So your solution to him not having a bond (and your defense for not going through with a bill that gets rid of bonds) is to give him separate housing so he can continue to provide for your family? The winds are out of the sails. You're father wasn't a danger? This girl is like he went to jail, told he was a risk (because of the Domestic Violence accusation) and he couldn't provide for us? Like guuuuurl I can't take you seriously AT ALL He deserves a bond because y'all don't have a provider. I can't. Then the first girl. Okay so the story almost starts off as if she was falsely accused but it turns out she was aiding and abetting in a robbery that must of been planned out. Okay it was good she was out and her rehabilitation proves she was remorseful but she thinks that the way the new system was set up that she would't have been out. The thing that took me by surprise is the amount of police was sent her way. Helicopters? Dogs? Um that sounds a lot more serious than a little shoplifting but okay. The bail system benefitted her and she redeemed herself but she is literally the exception to the rule and the bail system doesn't work for people who can't get the money together in two weeks. Her family got there but trust me I have been there and the money was not gathered in two weeks. It benefitted her but what about the families below the poverty line who aren't aiding and abetting in a felony robbery?
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King Skyes
I have a background in traffic court judicial clerk, criminal court judicial clerk, and as a hearing office judicial clerk in Alberta, Canada. In Canada, we have something similar to the American system for Bail. I worked in one of the big provincial court centres in Alberta, and usually Bail runs from 0 - 3500. Normally the bail is a own recognizance which means they do not pay, but if they break their release conditions then they have to pay the government the full amount. While cash bail recognizance are usually 1 - 1000. They do this for constant repeat accused, or people with low income that might break the recognizance but if they do they can't pay the full amount, so the Judge or Justice of the Peace usually put a 50 cash deposit release for a own recognizance as the Judge will look at various risk/need/responsivity needs of the accused. I have seen Judges issue 1 cash deposits as well, so not to burden the family with the release costs of the accused. There are also various other forms of releases such as an undertaking, which does more or less what a recognizance does, but is normally no money is involved in the issuing, and they are normally issued by police officers. A for profit system will bail bondsmen making arrests is illegal in Canada. It is good too, why should the justice system focus on lower class, and racial biases of officers, when Judges are able to put conditions in the various releases that force people to go to training programs offered by the government which help make the accused more desirable when making a resume compared to others. I don't understand why America is screwing over their own citizens more with more financial hardships if someone has a criminal record, or is awaiting trail. I just couldn't imagine someone who was arrested for a B&E to possibly fund addiction, or help their family with financial trouble being charged 50 000 to be released from jail (gaol in Canada) while awaiting trail.
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I have a background in traffic court judicial clerk, criminal court judicial clerk, and as a hearing office judicial clerk in Alberta, Canada. In Canada, we have something similar to the American system for Bail. I worked in one of the big provincial court centres in Alberta, and usually Bail runs from 0 - 3500. Normally the bail is a own recognizance which means they do not pay, but if they break their release conditions then they have to pay the government the full amount. While cash bail recognizance are usually 1 - 1000. They do this for constant repeat accused, or people with low income that might break the recognizance but if they do they can't pay the full amount, so the Judge or Justice of the Peace usually put a 50 cash deposit release for a own recognizance as the Judge will look at various risk/need/responsivity needs of the accused. I have seen Judges issue 1 cash deposits as well, so not to burden the family with the release costs of the accused. There are also various other forms of releases such as an undertaking, which does more or less what a recognizance does, but is normally no money is involved in the issuing, and they are normally issued by police officers. A for profit system will bail bondsmen making arrests is illegal in Canada. It is good too, why should the justice system focus on lower class, and racial biases of officers, when Judges are able to put conditions in the various releases that force people to go to training programs offered by the government which help make the accused more desirable when making a resume compared to others. I don't understand why America is screwing over their own citizens more with more financial hardships if someone has a criminal record, or is awaiting trail. I just couldn't imagine someone who was arrested for a B&E to possibly fund addiction, or help their family with financial trouble being charged 50 000 to be released from jail (gaol in Canada) while awaiting trail.
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Ricardo Velazquez
insider point of view i spent some time in the prison system for things i didnt even do or was just simply lied too. :tl; dr someone used my DL number and got a driving ticket. i was pulled over for speeding and was asked to get out of my car. i could not post bail due to the courts asking for sooooo much money. spent a week in holding. was transferred twice both times not given time to call for help. because i was not out of jail making money i couldnt get a lawyer to fight for me. had to plead no contest just to get out of jail. i noticed that more and more inmates treat jail as a vacation and even joke about how many times they have been in and out of different facilities. second time is more embarrassing but turns out someone i was talking to was not old enough to date found out at the same time the cops did. was taken in and i managed to post bail this time. went to court each time i was told to but when i asked if i still had to make my bail payments, bailbonds men told me that if i didnt they would issue a warrant out for me even if the DA rejected my case. i made sure nothing was being charged against me and finished paying the bail. but i shouldnt have had to pay the amount if the DA and the court system both agreed that i was not at fault. a simple background check would have helped me avoid going to jail both times. the DL number was mine but the address given for the ticket was way off and no where close to any address i once had. the second time is a little more difficult to fight against but i did have messages of her telling me her age. could have just simply looked at my phone since they took it as evidence. the prison system needs to go back to a government owned and op system. making money off of people bad luck is horrible and needs to no longer exist.
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insider point of view i spent some time in the prison system for things i didnt even do or was just simply lied too. :tl; dr someone used my DL number and got a driving ticket. i was pulled over for speeding and was asked to get out of my car. i could not post bail due to the courts asking for sooooo much money. spent a week in holding. was transferred twice both times not given time to call for help. because i was not out of jail making money i couldnt get a lawyer to fight for me. had to plead no contest just to get out of jail. i noticed that more and more inmates treat jail as a vacation and even joke about how many times they have been in and out of different facilities. second time is more embarrassing but turns out someone i was talking to was not old enough to date found out at the same time the cops did. was taken in and i managed to post bail this time. went to court each time i was told to but when i asked if i still had to make my bail payments, bailbonds men told me that if i didnt they would issue a warrant out for me even if the DA rejected my case. i made sure nothing was being charged against me and finished paying the bail. but i shouldnt have had to pay the amount if the DA and the court system both agreed that i was not at fault. a simple background check would have helped me avoid going to jail both times. the DL number was mine but the address given for the ticket was way off and no where close to any address i once had. the second time is a little more difficult to fight against but i did have messages of her telling me her age. could have just simply looked at my phone since they took it as evidence. the prison system needs to go back to a government owned and op system. making money off of people bad luck is horrible and needs to no longer exist.
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Wofle _
If the determination of bail is hinged on severity of the crime accused, does that not forgo the seclusion of safety involved with issuing the point of bail in the first place? If an alleged violent criminal may simply pay off the barrier of public safety provided in detainment by means of a bail, why at all justify the method of the system that claims to provide a public safeguard? When the only crest of safety can so easily be voided. The pure theory of bail lacks common sense. Whereas if risk assessment is not flawed, biased, or skewed in its successions. Those at risk to the public will be handled definitively. And those who are not, are treated as fair as their initial accusations - until a further proven time. Risk assessment may queue a series of court dates by severity. For the data will be apparent. Those who are detained, and at less a risk, will either attend their hearing sooner than those who are also detained, but of a greater risk to the public. Or will be released with the schedule of their next court appearance. No imbalance on the scale of wealth, and danger will decide the action of release. The courtroom, and housed judge would declare the sole exclamation of where a detainee of the nation's law will go. Not a choice by possession of wealth. This in said theory sounds more civil than the reckless opportunity of current day jailing.
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If the determination of bail is hinged on severity of the crime accused, does that not forgo the seclusion of safety involved with issuing the point of bail in the first place? If an alleged violent criminal may simply pay off the barrier of public safety provided in detainment by means of a bail, why at all justify the method of the system that claims to provide a public safeguard? When the only crest of safety can so easily be voided. The pure theory of bail lacks common sense. Whereas if risk assessment is not flawed, biased, or skewed in its successions. Those at risk to the public will be handled definitively. And those who are not, are treated as fair as their initial accusations - until a further proven time. Risk assessment may queue a series of court dates by severity. For the data will be apparent. Those who are detained, and at less a risk, will either attend their hearing sooner than those who are also detained, but of a greater risk to the public. Or will be released with the schedule of their next court appearance. No imbalance on the scale of wealth, and danger will decide the action of release. The courtroom, and housed judge would declare the sole exclamation of where a detainee of the nation's law will go. Not a choice by possession of wealth. This in said theory sounds more civil than the reckless opportunity of current day jailing.
reply
Cybernetik Soul
Yes, the bail system is unfair. Its bad enough that it doesn't treat everyone fairly when it comes to cost, and the system has a lot of bias. Justice is often placed on every other factor than justice itself. One thing that stuck out to me was when Dog said the ppl in bail bonds are responsible for getting their clients. It made it seem like they are the ones hiring bounty hunters or people in general to get locked up so that they can say hey, looks like you'll need us. Maybe i misunderstood that part but I'm not curious to learn how that really works. Either way, i think having profits that depend on how many you can incarcerate is a problem and i don't think the human race is responsible or even honest enough to be in charge of that. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert but in general, there are a lot of things about the USA where its supposed to work one way, but the reality of it is it doesn't. From voting to law enforcement to the prison system, hell even innocent until proven guilty, it all depends to be fixed. Not to mention how being charged, even if your case is pending can make it hard if not impossible to find work or get into school. Being at the wrong place at the wrong time happens too often and destroys peoples lives. I could go on but this is a big enough paragraph already.
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Yes, the bail system is unfair. Its bad enough that it doesn't treat everyone fairly when it comes to cost, and the system has a lot of bias. Justice is often placed on every other factor than justice itself. One thing that stuck out to me was when Dog said the ppl in bail bonds are responsible for getting their clients. It made it seem like they are the ones hiring bounty hunters or people in general to get locked up so that they can say hey, looks like you'll need us. Maybe i misunderstood that part but I'm not curious to learn how that really works. Either way, i think having profits that depend on how many you can incarcerate is a problem and i don't think the human race is responsible or even honest enough to be in charge of that. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert but in general, there are a lot of things about the USA where its supposed to work one way, but the reality of it is it doesn't. From voting to law enforcement to the prison system, hell even innocent until proven guilty, it all depends to be fixed. Not to mention how being charged, even if your case is pending can make it hard if not impossible to find work or get into school. Being at the wrong place at the wrong time happens too often and destroys peoples lives. I could go on but this is a big enough paragraph already.
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Dar Morgen
It is astounding to me as a Canadian to learn how Americans transfer institutions, that should be under the control of the federal state, to corporations. Institutions such as prisons, education (school charters, hospitals, etc. Corporations in a capitalist system are only there to make money. So why is it ok to put human life into their hands. This system of bail bonds is basically unjust for individuals who cannot afford bail. When you are rich in the States, you can pretty much buy your way in anything you want. You need an operation, pay up You want the best education, pay up. You want to circumvent the judicial system, pay up For example, Jeffrey Epstein, who basically rape underage girls and built a prostitution ring for rich men literally spend 13 months housed in a private wing of the Palm Beach County. But, what do you do when you have no money to your name. Around half a million American are sitting behind bars (How Bail Traps the Poor in Jail by Bob Zadek. Not because they are guilty, but because they do not have the money to pay I'm not here to look down on Americans (Canada is not the best country in the world like Chretien said. But when you look at the case of Kalief Browder, it makes you wonder if there are two worlds in this country, one for the rich and one for the poor
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It is astounding to me as a Canadian to learn how Americans transfer institutions, that should be under the control of the federal state, to corporations. Institutions such as prisons, education (school charters, hospitals, etc. Corporations in a capitalist system are only there to make money. So why is it ok to put human life into their hands. This system of bail bonds is basically unjust for individuals who cannot afford bail. When you are rich in the States, you can pretty much buy your way in anything you want. You need an operation, pay up You want the best education, pay up. You want to circumvent the judicial system, pay up For example, Jeffrey Epstein, who basically rape underage girls and built a prostitution ring for rich men literally spend 13 months housed in a private wing of the Palm Beach County. But, what do you do when you have no money to your name. Around half a million American are sitting behind bars (How Bail Traps the Poor in Jail by Bob Zadek. Not because they are guilty, but because they do not have the money to pay I'm not here to look down on Americans (Canada is not the best country in the world like Chretien said. But when you look at the case of Kalief Browder, it makes you wonder if there are two worlds in this country, one for the rich and one for the poor
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Eric Morris
I'm not saying the bail system is fair or should be a thing however this instance of a robbery charge. ugh. There are far better instances we could have used to prove the point. Robbery is a crime of violence. The fact this this young lady was scared or a straight A student is irrelevant. Im tired of shows, podcasts and news articles using irrelevant facts to steer folks who arent completely in the know about how the justice system works away from facts that actually matter in a case. Also in most cases an attorney is allowed to present their client in normal clothes and not an orange jump suit. On top of that, bail is usually only instituted in cases where someone is a flight risk and the court wants some skin in the game for them to return to court. In fact, most courts use whats called an Own Recognizance Bond where you are simply signing a paper claiming you'll show up to court and if you dont you understand that you'll get a warrant and be arrested and likely not be allowed to get out with bail at that point because you violated your own recognizance. The algorithm system is extremely flawed as well. Ugh who knows what solutions we could come up with if everyone just sat at a table and discussed.
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I'm not saying the bail system is fair or should be a thing however this instance of a robbery charge. ugh. There are far better instances we could have used to prove the point. Robbery is a crime of violence. The fact this this young lady was scared or a straight A student is irrelevant. Im tired of shows, podcasts and news articles using irrelevant facts to steer folks who arent completely in the know about how the justice system works away from facts that actually matter in a case. Also in most cases an attorney is allowed to present their client in normal clothes and not an orange jump suit. On top of that, bail is usually only instituted in cases where someone is a flight risk and the court wants some skin in the game for them to return to court. In fact, most courts use whats called an Own Recognizance Bond where you are simply signing a paper claiming you'll show up to court and if you dont you understand that you'll get a warrant and be arrested and likely not be allowed to get out with bail at that point because you violated your own recognizance. The algorithm system is extremely flawed as well. Ugh who knows what solutions we could come up with if everyone just sat at a table and discussed.
reply
Anji Thompson
It seems to me that alot of the issues with the algorithms is the inherent racism within American society. Each case needs to be assessed on its own merit. Outside of algorithms and utilising personal statements by people who know the person. People are less likely to flee if they have jobs, a good relationship with school and other references. If you have never been in trouble before and the crime is a misdemeanour then you should get a no fee bail. Everyone will still get bail, just not one that is paid for and therefore unfair to poorer demographics, creating unnecessary debt and hardship to families of the accused who very likely are unaware of the criminal activity of their relative/friend. Also updating court date information, using text messages, is definately a good idea. My GP texts me before my appointment. As does any specialist treatment provider I may need. So why can't the American criminal justice system. People were upset when slavery ended because it would cause pressure on an already teetering employment system. People didn't like it when primary school was made mandatory and children were banned from working. That didn't mean either of those practices were right.
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It seems to me that alot of the issues with the algorithms is the inherent racism within American society. Each case needs to be assessed on its own merit. Outside of algorithms and utilising personal statements by people who know the person. People are less likely to flee if they have jobs, a good relationship with school and other references. If you have never been in trouble before and the crime is a misdemeanour then you should get a no fee bail. Everyone will still get bail, just not one that is paid for and therefore unfair to poorer demographics, creating unnecessary debt and hardship to families of the accused who very likely are unaware of the criminal activity of their relative/friend. Also updating court date information, using text messages, is definately a good idea. My GP texts me before my appointment. As does any specialist treatment provider I may need. So why can't the American criminal justice system. People were upset when slavery ended because it would cause pressure on an already teetering employment system. People didn't like it when primary school was made mandatory and children were banned from working. That didn't mean either of those practices were right.
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