The Tim Piazza Tragedy, Rise of Deadly Fraternity Hazing, and How It's Being Stopped.
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Date: 2019-11-01
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Comments and reviews: 9
John Brooks
I am a current university student and part of a fraternity and my personal experience with hazing is quite different. Im part of an engineering fraternity so its quite a bit more career focused than partying but as far as hazing goes the only time I got hazed was during initiation where they did stuff like, while they setup the initiation (felt like forever but I think took 30 minutes) we had to sit in a room in the dark and not fall asleep, there was this gauntlet of questions about the fraternity where if we got one wrong we had to restart and sometimes they would just make us restart for fun, and lastly they made us write a paper about a play we were supposed to know. Soooooo. yeah. Annoying but nothing like what other people have talked about. I really dont like the whole hazing thing in general because I feel like it just gives people a license to be a dick. I dont know. My friends who joined fraternities like Fiji has it way worse. I remember him telling me about how he had to be on call for his big who would literally just make him do his laundry, move his suitcase, being him groceries, etc. So yeah, theres a lot of range. The same thing goes for drinking, my fraternity family has small parties before events that we do drink at but its more of sipping whiskey than pounding hard liquor and I never once felt pressured. For example a lot of the brothers smoke cigars during this time and asked once if I wanted one ( I said no) and they never asked again. This is of course in contrast to my friend (in Fiji) who if he doesnt down 7 drinks every time they throw a hissy fit. I think its really up to where you are and who you are getting involved with. For example, my girlfriend is also looking at going into a sorority (its so weird, were not the type of people at all, and we were looking at her school and all the sororities were social sororities which is not what she wants out of it.
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I am a current university student and part of a fraternity and my personal experience with hazing is quite different. Im part of an engineering fraternity so its quite a bit more career focused than partying but as far as hazing goes the only time I got hazed was during initiation where they did stuff like, while they setup the initiation (felt like forever but I think took 30 minutes) we had to sit in a room in the dark and not fall asleep, there was this gauntlet of questions about the fraternity where if we got one wrong we had to restart and sometimes they would just make us restart for fun, and lastly they made us write a paper about a play we were supposed to know. Soooooo. yeah. Annoying but nothing like what other people have talked about. I really dont like the whole hazing thing in general because I feel like it just gives people a license to be a dick. I dont know. My friends who joined fraternities like Fiji has it way worse. I remember him telling me about how he had to be on call for his big who would literally just make him do his laundry, move his suitcase, being him groceries, etc. So yeah, theres a lot of range. The same thing goes for drinking, my fraternity family has small parties before events that we do drink at but its more of sipping whiskey than pounding hard liquor and I never once felt pressured. For example a lot of the brothers smoke cigars during this time and asked once if I wanted one ( I said no) and they never asked again. This is of course in contrast to my friend (in Fiji) who if he doesnt down 7 drinks every time they throw a hissy fit. I think its really up to where you are and who you are getting involved with. For example, my girlfriend is also looking at going into a sorority (its so weird, were not the type of people at all, and we were looking at her school and all the sororities were social sororities which is not what she wants out of it.
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Jones L
I was president of a chapter of Alpha Psi Omega, a national theater honors fraternity (which was a loose term as they accepted both men and women (the only genders recognized at the private christian university I attended as an undergrad. Our version of hazing was very light and mostly silly stuff. Every year we had a theme, like dead actors. Pledges were required to call us by the name of a dead actor we had chosen, they had to carry a totem that would give them clues as to who their sponsor was, if they were caught without the totem they had to recite something of the members choosing, and by the end they had to recite the greek alphabet before a lit match went out. We had some other little events such as taking them around the town blind folded and having them touch a monument or something to figure out where they were, or do small performances on stage. This is the kind of hazing that's really fun, and involves what the organization is about. Of course, there are some huge differences here. One, as a private religious school it was a dry campus, which didn't ultimately eliminate drinking, but did lessen the social pressure around it. Two, it was an honors fraternity, not a social one. There was not frat house, unless you count the theater. Three, we had very few pledges as theater was only available as a minor and there wasn't a lot of funding for it (anyone who was acting was also generally asked to help build sets, organize costumes and props, etc. there was a dedicated group of work study students who did a lot of the work (which I was also a part of) but we needed as many hands on the projects as we could get, so naturally we wanted to keep it engaging and not kill anyone who might be interested.
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I was president of a chapter of Alpha Psi Omega, a national theater honors fraternity (which was a loose term as they accepted both men and women (the only genders recognized at the private christian university I attended as an undergrad. Our version of hazing was very light and mostly silly stuff. Every year we had a theme, like dead actors. Pledges were required to call us by the name of a dead actor we had chosen, they had to carry a totem that would give them clues as to who their sponsor was, if they were caught without the totem they had to recite something of the members choosing, and by the end they had to recite the greek alphabet before a lit match went out. We had some other little events such as taking them around the town blind folded and having them touch a monument or something to figure out where they were, or do small performances on stage. This is the kind of hazing that's really fun, and involves what the organization is about. Of course, there are some huge differences here. One, as a private religious school it was a dry campus, which didn't ultimately eliminate drinking, but did lessen the social pressure around it. Two, it was an honors fraternity, not a social one. There was not frat house, unless you count the theater. Three, we had very few pledges as theater was only available as a minor and there wasn't a lot of funding for it (anyone who was acting was also generally asked to help build sets, organize costumes and props, etc. there was a dedicated group of work study students who did a lot of the work (which I was also a part of) but we needed as many hands on the projects as we could get, so naturally we wanted to keep it engaging and not kill anyone who might be interested.
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Loren Du Rochez
I am a college student in Belgium. Where I study (Leuven) we had a similar situation with a student unfortunately ending up dead and one badly injured due to hazing. The difference that we have here is that we have student associations (who are linked to a faculty) and student clubs or like you call it sorority. The student associations all signed the doopcharter where specific rules are set up to avoid situations like this. We are obligated to inform police when we have doop (doop is what you do to become member of a associations but not every association does it and most of the times it is fun and games) and have people who can deliver first aid + first aid kit standby. The people who lead it have to be sober and when someone doesn't feel comfortable doing something than they can take a break and go back in when they want. Student clubs on the other hand. They to the things that you describe happend to Tim. That is straight up dangerous and humiliation. After the death of that student last year, a lot of things changed. The sorority who was responsible for his death has been shut down, the members who were involved have been published by the university and there is also a lawsuit following. They still haven't signed the charter even when the University obligated them. I am aware that not every student city in Belgium has that charter (Leuven is one of the few, but with this death we saw a lot of other associations working out something like a charter. We will see what the future brings.
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I am a college student in Belgium. Where I study (Leuven) we had a similar situation with a student unfortunately ending up dead and one badly injured due to hazing. The difference that we have here is that we have student associations (who are linked to a faculty) and student clubs or like you call it sorority. The student associations all signed the doopcharter where specific rules are set up to avoid situations like this. We are obligated to inform police when we have doop (doop is what you do to become member of a associations but not every association does it and most of the times it is fun and games) and have people who can deliver first aid + first aid kit standby. The people who lead it have to be sober and when someone doesn't feel comfortable doing something than they can take a break and go back in when they want. Student clubs on the other hand. They to the things that you describe happend to Tim. That is straight up dangerous and humiliation. After the death of that student last year, a lot of things changed. The sorority who was responsible for his death has been shut down, the members who were involved have been published by the university and there is also a lawsuit following. They still haven't signed the charter even when the University obligated them. I am aware that not every student city in Belgium has that charter (Leuven is one of the few, but with this death we saw a lot of other associations working out something like a charter. We will see what the future brings.
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GoldenTrident17
I made the conscious choice to not join a fraternity because theyre not good for anything except boozing and banging indiscriminately. The biggest reason I can see as to why their members successful is because they typically attract kids from wealthy, well-established, and well-connected families. Either way, Ive seen a lot of hazing on my campus. Ohio State does absolutely nothing to actually try and make things better. They shut down the frats at one point last year in response to the death of that poor kid from Penn State, but they reinstated all the frats shortly after. Even the notoriously rapey frats. The big one there is TKE. It had a roofy culture. It took them years of knowing about this frat to actually do anything about it. And even waited an extra semester to suspend it for 3 years. Colleges overlook that sort of stuff because the students parents are typically big donors, and you cant offend the donors. The whole frat system is screwed up and allows for poor kids to get killed, raped, maimed, humiliated, etc. without so much as a slap on the wrist most of the time. And even when they do, its mainly for PR. Like when they suspended Urban Meyer even though he did nothing wrong. I speak about OSU because I go there, but its the same story with different colors at a lot of other colleges if not most others. In short, theyre awful and should be avoided or completely outlawed.
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I made the conscious choice to not join a fraternity because theyre not good for anything except boozing and banging indiscriminately. The biggest reason I can see as to why their members successful is because they typically attract kids from wealthy, well-established, and well-connected families. Either way, Ive seen a lot of hazing on my campus. Ohio State does absolutely nothing to actually try and make things better. They shut down the frats at one point last year in response to the death of that poor kid from Penn State, but they reinstated all the frats shortly after. Even the notoriously rapey frats. The big one there is TKE. It had a roofy culture. It took them years of knowing about this frat to actually do anything about it. And even waited an extra semester to suspend it for 3 years. Colleges overlook that sort of stuff because the students parents are typically big donors, and you cant offend the donors. The whole frat system is screwed up and allows for poor kids to get killed, raped, maimed, humiliated, etc. without so much as a slap on the wrist most of the time. And even when they do, its mainly for PR. Like when they suspended Urban Meyer even though he did nothing wrong. I speak about OSU because I go there, but its the same story with different colors at a lot of other colleges if not most others. In short, theyre awful and should be avoided or completely outlawed.
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~xra~
I was in a fraternity, one that was kicked off campus because we had some bad eggs in our house but also because someone wanted to see our fraternity go down. I've been through the hazing process and from my personal experience it matters what the hazing is. I will not turn a blind eye towards other frats who practice dangerous hazing, but its things like these that make everyone think what we're doing is worse than a bunch of similar groups at college. Every sports team has a form of hazing, some clubs do as well. And again this is not an excuse for frats and sororities. But to me personally, I think hazing if done correctly isn't that bad. In a frat you can't just accept everyone, you need to bring in people who you think can push the chapter forward. As well as bringing your pledge class closer together and forming a tighter bond. My brothers are my family, people I would drop anything for and it's because I was challenged from day one of pledging to show to them that I was worth the bid they extended to me. And in return they showed me the same respect when I was initiated. I will never regret joining and I will never regret pledging. I took me out of my comfort zone. it showed me I was capable of achieving things I previously wouldn't have thought of attempting. And made me the kind of guy I am today, s person that can be a positive role model for others. But that is just my take on it.
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I was in a fraternity, one that was kicked off campus because we had some bad eggs in our house but also because someone wanted to see our fraternity go down. I've been through the hazing process and from my personal experience it matters what the hazing is. I will not turn a blind eye towards other frats who practice dangerous hazing, but its things like these that make everyone think what we're doing is worse than a bunch of similar groups at college. Every sports team has a form of hazing, some clubs do as well. And again this is not an excuse for frats and sororities. But to me personally, I think hazing if done correctly isn't that bad. In a frat you can't just accept everyone, you need to bring in people who you think can push the chapter forward. As well as bringing your pledge class closer together and forming a tighter bond. My brothers are my family, people I would drop anything for and it's because I was challenged from day one of pledging to show to them that I was worth the bid they extended to me. And in return they showed me the same respect when I was initiated. I will never regret joining and I will never regret pledging. I took me out of my comfort zone. it showed me I was capable of achieving things I previously wouldn't have thought of attempting. And made me the kind of guy I am today, s person that can be a positive role model for others. But that is just my take on it.
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plushrumpasaurus
I live in the Penn State University area, not far from campus. My mama works at the hospital up here, where Tim Piazza was brought in. My mom was actually working that day and when they got the code she told me it turned into a DOA. My mom's coworker was the one to do the autopsy, I think I was like 20 at the time or even 19. Knowing that someone my age went through that, that I can now walk past that fraternity which isn't far from my aunt's office, and knowing that nobody thought to call 911, that Tim could've been easily saved under the care of Mount Nittany Hospital staff, it pisses me off. It breaks my heart. Even with the Piazza's efforts, I'm not confident that the hazing has stopped or even decreased. Honestly, ever since the university killed Joe Pa, and no not literally but the team was everything to Paterno and he held strict standards for the students and kept them safe, and the whole Sandusky thing, Penn State has kinda fallen flat. Students used to be more involved in the community around here, they actually LOOKED when they crossed College Ave and Beaver Ave. I dunno, I guess I just remember a different and better Penn State, and I might have things wrong, maybe it was always kinda like this, but at least our little hole-in-the-wall kind of state wasn't on the news every few months.
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I live in the Penn State University area, not far from campus. My mama works at the hospital up here, where Tim Piazza was brought in. My mom was actually working that day and when they got the code she told me it turned into a DOA. My mom's coworker was the one to do the autopsy, I think I was like 20 at the time or even 19. Knowing that someone my age went through that, that I can now walk past that fraternity which isn't far from my aunt's office, and knowing that nobody thought to call 911, that Tim could've been easily saved under the care of Mount Nittany Hospital staff, it pisses me off. It breaks my heart. Even with the Piazza's efforts, I'm not confident that the hazing has stopped or even decreased. Honestly, ever since the university killed Joe Pa, and no not literally but the team was everything to Paterno and he held strict standards for the students and kept them safe, and the whole Sandusky thing, Penn State has kinda fallen flat. Students used to be more involved in the community around here, they actually LOOKED when they crossed College Ave and Beaver Ave. I dunno, I guess I just remember a different and better Penn State, and I might have things wrong, maybe it was always kinda like this, but at least our little hole-in-the-wall kind of state wasn't on the news every few months.
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Elisabeth Soto
I found this topic particularly interesting because Im always curious as to how the media covers Greek Life. As a member of a Greek organization I feel as though you did a great job shedding light on to what happens behind the scenes of some organizations, but I still wish that places dove into the concepts of the different councils in Greek life and how these councils are divided on history, and tradition. A large majority of these hazing stories, particularly those surrounding excessive amounts of alcohol are tied to The Interfraternal Council which is comprised solely of male fraternities. There is also the Panhellenic council, National Panhellenic council, and the Diversified or Multicultural Greek Council. The Panhellenic Council shares most of their history with the Interfrateral Council however is comprised of sororities. The National Panhellenic Council is comprised of the Divine 9, or the historically African American Sororities and Fraternities. And the Diversified Greek Council or Multicultural Greek Council (name depends upon the campus) is comprised of your others, your minority Greeks, and academic Greeks. For organizations such as mine, hazing and alcohol are ban within the very organization itself and built into the organizations by-laws.
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I found this topic particularly interesting because Im always curious as to how the media covers Greek Life. As a member of a Greek organization I feel as though you did a great job shedding light on to what happens behind the scenes of some organizations, but I still wish that places dove into the concepts of the different councils in Greek life and how these councils are divided on history, and tradition. A large majority of these hazing stories, particularly those surrounding excessive amounts of alcohol are tied to The Interfraternal Council which is comprised solely of male fraternities. There is also the Panhellenic council, National Panhellenic council, and the Diversified or Multicultural Greek Council. The Panhellenic Council shares most of their history with the Interfrateral Council however is comprised of sororities. The National Panhellenic Council is comprised of the Divine 9, or the historically African American Sororities and Fraternities. And the Diversified Greek Council or Multicultural Greek Council (name depends upon the campus) is comprised of your others, your minority Greeks, and academic Greeks. For organizations such as mine, hazing and alcohol are ban within the very organization itself and built into the organizations by-laws.
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Derek Snow
I dunno I think hazing has a time and a place as long as it's not pushed to far. In the end what we are really talking about here is taking away liberties to ensure safety. If harm is intended people should be held accountable, however from what was being described abt Tim Piazza there was no harm intended. We started looking towards banning hazing when people were hurting other people but in the case of Tim, this wasn't the case, he fell down a bunch of times but he wasn't pushed or hit. Granted the frat may have created a unsafe environment but at the end of the day there is no environment that is truly safe. Painting School on the roads outside of schools doesn't stop please from speeding down the road in front of schools and hitting children. People also overlook the upside of hazing as it''s true purpose is not just to be mean, but to be an ordeal one has to pass through and is included in a group when you come out the other end. Making it through that ordeal is what bands people together. Lets just say there is a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it, it matters what is in the hearts of those who are hazing.
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I dunno I think hazing has a time and a place as long as it's not pushed to far. In the end what we are really talking about here is taking away liberties to ensure safety. If harm is intended people should be held accountable, however from what was being described abt Tim Piazza there was no harm intended. We started looking towards banning hazing when people were hurting other people but in the case of Tim, this wasn't the case, he fell down a bunch of times but he wasn't pushed or hit. Granted the frat may have created a unsafe environment but at the end of the day there is no environment that is truly safe. Painting School on the roads outside of schools doesn't stop please from speeding down the road in front of schools and hitting children. People also overlook the upside of hazing as it''s true purpose is not just to be mean, but to be an ordeal one has to pass through and is included in a group when you come out the other end. Making it through that ordeal is what bands people together. Lets just say there is a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it, it matters what is in the hearts of those who are hazing.
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Wags70707
Im a member of Beta Theta Pi, the fraternity that Tim Piazza was apart of. I dont think an alcohol ban would solve everything. It will just take parties to other houses and be even sketchier. The university I go to is VERY anti haze. Like we cant have any new members (pledges) do anything that current active members dont have to do. I do think lowering the drinking age would help, but may not be realistic at this point. But I do think ramping up the punishments for hazing from the university could be a big help. Multiple fraternities in the past couple years from my university have been suspended of kicked off campus indefinitely for hazing, which has made it come to a quick Halt at my school. Even when I was rushing, every fraternity I talked to would talk about how they have zero tolerance for hazing, and that if we ever felt hazed they gave us multiple people to contact. I think nationally the Greek stigma and Greek life needs to change and become safer, but I also hope that it doesnt disappear altogether, because they can do a lot of good.
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Im a member of Beta Theta Pi, the fraternity that Tim Piazza was apart of. I dont think an alcohol ban would solve everything. It will just take parties to other houses and be even sketchier. The university I go to is VERY anti haze. Like we cant have any new members (pledges) do anything that current active members dont have to do. I do think lowering the drinking age would help, but may not be realistic at this point. But I do think ramping up the punishments for hazing from the university could be a big help. Multiple fraternities in the past couple years from my university have been suspended of kicked off campus indefinitely for hazing, which has made it come to a quick Halt at my school. Even when I was rushing, every fraternity I talked to would talk about how they have zero tolerance for hazing, and that if we ever felt hazed they gave us multiple people to contact. I think nationally the Greek stigma and Greek life needs to change and become safer, but I also hope that it doesnt disappear altogether, because they can do a lot of good.
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