Europe's Earliest Battle? - The Mystery of the Tollense Valley Ancient History Documentary
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Date: 2022-09-10
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Comments and reviews: 17
Randall
The time frame is interesting to me. The fall of Troy is now thought (by some historians) to have occurred around 1177 BC. The ten year war leading up to that point had as its defining feature a dislocated Greek army on the shores at Troy. Feeding that army was done by raiding the associated coasts and allies of Troy. Trade routes were disrupted to the degree that made the Trojan War a boundary event. The culture, trade routes, and commerce which existed prior to that time, did not exist in the same way after that time. The inhabitants of Crete retreated up into the mountains to avoid the pillagers. The Egyptians reported Sea Peoples coming to steal food and make war. Not that the Greeks on the Trojan beaches were necessarily directly responsible, but that they started a domino effect of raids by starving out the locals, the locals then had to raid their neighbors just to survive, and so and so forth. (However it is now established in archeology that the Philistines were Mycenean Greeks. It is in the aftermath of the Trojan war we find the splitting of the Kingdom of Lydia and the crown Prince taking half the population to find new lands eventually settling in what became Etruscan and later Roman territory on the Italian Peninsula. All that to say I wonder how far that wave of destruction travelled? Did smiths and herders living on the north shore of the Black Sea migrate westward into what is now Germany? Who knows. It could make a good movie, exploring the ultimately destructive chain of events stemming from the breakdown of a marriage.
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The time frame is interesting to me. The fall of Troy is now thought (by some historians) to have occurred around 1177 BC. The ten year war leading up to that point had as its defining feature a dislocated Greek army on the shores at Troy. Feeding that army was done by raiding the associated coasts and allies of Troy. Trade routes were disrupted to the degree that made the Trojan War a boundary event. The culture, trade routes, and commerce which existed prior to that time, did not exist in the same way after that time. The inhabitants of Crete retreated up into the mountains to avoid the pillagers. The Egyptians reported Sea Peoples coming to steal food and make war. Not that the Greeks on the Trojan beaches were necessarily directly responsible, but that they started a domino effect of raids by starving out the locals, the locals then had to raid their neighbors just to survive, and so and so forth. (However it is now established in archeology that the Philistines were Mycenean Greeks. It is in the aftermath of the Trojan war we find the splitting of the Kingdom of Lydia and the crown Prince taking half the population to find new lands eventually settling in what became Etruscan and later Roman territory on the Italian Peninsula. All that to say I wonder how far that wave of destruction travelled? Did smiths and herders living on the north shore of the Black Sea migrate westward into what is now Germany? Who knows. It could make a good movie, exploring the ultimately destructive chain of events stemming from the breakdown of a marriage.
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sevast
The original Europeans are the bearers of the haplogroup I, which means
the so-called Balkans and Scandinavians. With the penetration of the
Asian hordes of the haplogroup R1b, the genocide of the original
Europeans begins, after they killed the men, they took over their wives,
who gave their genes to the European genes. surviving members of the
I2and I1 haplogroup form an alliance with the newly arrived R1a
haplogroup and ethnogenesis create a new Race of ''Slavs''. and repel
the attacks of the R1b people as evidenced by the genetic exploration of
the battle of Tollense valley. the real question is whether Western
Europeans are really Europeans
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The original Europeans are the bearers of the haplogroup I, which means
the so-called Balkans and Scandinavians. With the penetration of the
Asian hordes of the haplogroup R1b, the genocide of the original
Europeans begins, after they killed the men, they took over their wives,
who gave their genes to the European genes. surviving members of the
I2and I1 haplogroup form an alliance with the newly arrived R1a
haplogroup and ethnogenesis create a new Race of ''Slavs''. and repel
the attacks of the R1b people as evidenced by the genetic exploration of
the battle of Tollense valley. the real question is whether Western
Europeans are really Europeans
reply
JETWTF
Anyone that thinks weapons were just ceremonial is an idiot quite frankly. If the society was largely peaceful weapons would be few and far between and status symbols would be easy to carry such as head dresses, torques, and any other item that can be worn as is the normal for just about every known society. Weapons and shields are just clunky and get in the way when carried hence why all other societies chose worn items to show off status and wealth. Then that's completely ignoring all the destroyed villages from the bronze age that are all over Europe, they were not destroyed and ransacked by the people that lived there.
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Anyone that thinks weapons were just ceremonial is an idiot quite frankly. If the society was largely peaceful weapons would be few and far between and status symbols would be easy to carry such as head dresses, torques, and any other item that can be worn as is the normal for just about every known society. Weapons and shields are just clunky and get in the way when carried hence why all other societies chose worn items to show off status and wealth. Then that's completely ignoring all the destroyed villages from the bronze age that are all over Europe, they were not destroyed and ransacked by the people that lived there.
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Lucidz
There was no civilization in the bronze age that was peaceful. They were murdering each other by the thousands. From Egypt Asyria to Troy to Maggedo. Even the early Europeans were trading with the bronze age Greeks. There is even a theory that Cornwall in England even traded with the Manoans in ancient Greece before the bronze age collapse in the 1200bc with the influx of the 'sea peoples'. Even in the Indus Valley there was war.
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There was no civilization in the bronze age that was peaceful. They were murdering each other by the thousands. From Egypt Asyria to Troy to Maggedo. Even the early Europeans were trading with the bronze age Greeks. There is even a theory that Cornwall in England even traded with the Manoans in ancient Greece before the bronze age collapse in the 1200bc with the influx of the 'sea peoples'. Even in the Indus Valley there was war.
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Macovic
Wild fantasy. Battle between asgardians and the vanir eventually reshaped to the nordic mythology and belief in certain gods? The vanir perhaps being celto-slavic and asgardians being germanic bringing more use of bronze. After the battle a ruling elite of germanic people, shaping the future gods of slavic and germanic. Or the other way aoround, the asgardians being a celto-slavic agreessor using bronce weaponry and horses.
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Wild fantasy. Battle between asgardians and the vanir eventually reshaped to the nordic mythology and belief in certain gods? The vanir perhaps being celto-slavic and asgardians being germanic bringing more use of bronze. After the battle a ruling elite of germanic people, shaping the future gods of slavic and germanic. Or the other way aoround, the asgardians being a celto-slavic agreessor using bronce weaponry and horses.
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Real
Does he really say, at 1: 08, of the Bronze Age. that began in the 4th millennium BC and ended, in collapse, during the 12th? Because that makes no sense, it would be travelling backwards in time, to the Upper Paleolithic in fact.
Then, at 14: 12 the concentration of bones is a last stand but by 15: 27 they're washed downstream into a grisly dam of corpses, so they didn't die where they were found?
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Does he really say, at 1: 08, of the Bronze Age. that began in the 4th millennium BC and ended, in collapse, during the 12th? Because that makes no sense, it would be travelling backwards in time, to the Upper Paleolithic in fact.
Then, at 14: 12 the concentration of bones is a last stand but by 15: 27 they're washed downstream into a grisly dam of corpses, so they didn't die where they were found?
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Katie
Is there any time in known history that two groups of different tribes, regions, race, or ethnicity have met and no struggle for dominance of one over the has not ensued? Why are we so hateful, power hungry, and intolerant of others? Even many of our greatest inventions are a result of our need to destroy, or protect ourselves from, others.
I am thoroughly disgusted with my own species.
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Is there any time in known history that two groups of different tribes, regions, race, or ethnicity have met and no struggle for dominance of one over the has not ensued? Why are we so hateful, power hungry, and intolerant of others? Even many of our greatest inventions are a result of our need to destroy, or protect ourselves from, others.
I am thoroughly disgusted with my own species.
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Dora
Come on, mighty bronze age armies did NOT fight a huge battle without bronze, and without tin, they didn't have bronze.
This region was wealthy and powerful throughout the bronze age. They were gettng tin from Britain and from the steppe, and they had bronze. Since you're that silly, I don't know what to believe of what you say.
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Come on, mighty bronze age armies did NOT fight a huge battle without bronze, and without tin, they didn't have bronze.
This region was wealthy and powerful throughout the bronze age. They were gettng tin from Britain and from the steppe, and they had bronze. Since you're that silly, I don't know what to believe of what you say.
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Lewis
Absolutely fascinating stuff. Thank-you for sharing your knowledge. If you ever do another video on this topic perhaps you could check out how the German place names are pronounced. The final e in Tollense is not silent, v in Vorpommern is actually spoken like an f, for example. (Just a constructive suggestion for the future)
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Absolutely fascinating stuff. Thank-you for sharing your knowledge. If you ever do another video on this topic perhaps you could check out how the German place names are pronounced. The final e in Tollense is not silent, v in Vorpommern is actually spoken like an f, for example. (Just a constructive suggestion for the future)
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Luke
This is the extermination of the losers of an intertribal or close tribal conflict. The losers were not buried. They were not using the food sources available. The losers had individuals who were injured who were forced to fight here. The losers had women and children who were exterminated along with the fighting men.
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This is the extermination of the losers of an intertribal or close tribal conflict. The losers were not buried. They were not using the food sources available. The losers had individuals who were injured who were forced to fight here. The losers had women and children who were exterminated along with the fighting men.
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Assurbanipal
Note: Germany is a federal country consisting of 16 semi-independent states, just like the U. S. It's obligatory to say the name of the State, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. If the site would have been in Bavaria it would have been named for sure. Instead it's just North eastern germany in this video.
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Note: Germany is a federal country consisting of 16 semi-independent states, just like the U. S. It's obligatory to say the name of the State, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. If the site would have been in Bavaria it would have been named for sure. Instead it's just North eastern germany in this video.
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Stephen
At least 3, 000 years of waging useless wars for reasons that seemed important enough to die for, yet were completely forgotten in a generation or two, and we havent learned a thing save for how to make more powerful weapons that kill more people. It doesnt bode well for our survival as a species.
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At least 3, 000 years of waging useless wars for reasons that seemed important enough to die for, yet were completely forgotten in a generation or two, and we havent learned a thing save for how to make more powerful weapons that kill more people. It doesnt bode well for our survival as a species.
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Distant
Just seen this video. To me, this looks like it could have been a professional force swooping in on a civilian population. That population was out matched with many of its men and some women and children being casualties. The survivors probably been taken as slaves. My guess anyway
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Just seen this video. To me, this looks like it could have been a professional force swooping in on a civilian population. That population was out matched with many of its men and some women and children being casualties. The survivors probably been taken as slaves. My guess anyway
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ZiSt1989
one bronce age man: look guys, I've got a long metal thingy with pointy tip. what could I use it for?
other bronce age man: smash someone's head with it!
another: hang it by your belt, looks cool!
then, someone else: yOu cOulD uSe iT fOr cErEmOniAL pUrPoSe, dUh!
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one bronce age man: look guys, I've got a long metal thingy with pointy tip. what could I use it for?
other bronce age man: smash someone's head with it!
another: hang it by your belt, looks cool!
then, someone else: yOu cOulD uSe iT fOr cErEmOniAL pUrPoSe, dUh!
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liamquinn1981
bog usually indicates neolithic farming. sounds like a newcomer bronze age tribe killed off an existing neolithic established society. was there no structures or settlements found in the general area? Causeway and bog says agrarian society with trade.
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bog usually indicates neolithic farming. sounds like a newcomer bronze age tribe killed off an existing neolithic established society. was there no structures or settlements found in the general area? Causeway and bog says agrarian society with trade.
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Max
The repeated clip of someone in medieval style ring mail polishing a blunt medieval style steel longsword is quite distracting and makes one wonder how much of the rest of the imagery is equally wrong. The video would have been better off without it.
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The repeated clip of someone in medieval style ring mail polishing a blunt medieval style steel longsword is quite distracting and makes one wonder how much of the rest of the imagery is equally wrong. The video would have been better off without it.
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June
Elsewhere I read that there was a group more or less local and a group from further south in Bohemia. I find that amazing. That was a long way for a large group of warriors to travel. Maybe they were traders who ran afoul of the locals.
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Elsewhere I read that there was a group more or less local and a group from further south in Bohemia. I find that amazing. That was a long way for a large group of warriors to travel. Maybe they were traders who ran afoul of the locals.
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