Why didn't Greece become a part of the Eastern Bloc?
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Date: 2023-10-03
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The short answer is: because of the 1945-1949 Greek civil war.
The slightly longer answer is: USSR had plans for the wider region including Greece even before WW2: they were planning to create a Balkan USSR which would either include Greece as a whole, or at least/surely its northern part (the historical region of Macedonia which lies in all its extends in Greece, a region which was essential to this Union in order to have access to the Aegean and of course the Mediterranean Sea. This would mean that USSR already having control over the Black Sea, they would control the Aegean Sea, thus also the entrance to the Black Sea, as well as the Eastern and central Mediterranean Sea, thus the Suez Canal, the Northern and Eastern Africa and so on.
So what did USSR did to ensure these plans?
Moscow ordered within the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia a new federal state to be created named Socialist Republic of Macedonia which would be a nation-state. This took place in 1945. This new imaginary nation-state supposedly consisted by Macedonians, who spoke Macedonian (they just baptized the language as such, etc, and in their 1945 Declaration they claimed that Macedonia is one united region, more than half of which was conquered and occupied by force by Greece, referring to historical region of Macedonia (always in Greece. They claimed that their country and the people was devided and they aimed to. reunite; that these people are not Slavs (as everyone knew since the Slavs migrated in the region, but antique Macedonians, direct descendants of Philip and Alexander the Great, who reclaim their fatherlands (NOTE at this point that the outcome of this communist mess, is modern North Macedonia, which until 2018 laid the exact same claims towards Greece. They laid the foundations to attack Greece to conduct a liberational war.
At the same time (1945) in communist Bulgaria (not a federal republic so no federal state could be created) they renamed a western region called Pirin to Pirin Macedonia but did not laid direct claims towards Greece. Yet there were two countries with two Macedonias who were agreeing with each other oin the creation of a new Socialist State named Macedonia which would include the (only true) Macedonia down in Greece.
Communism at its b e s t.
Down in Greece in 1945 (same year as above) began a civil war between the Greek communists (who were assisted by the Yugoslavs and the Bulgarians - ie from Moscow) and all the others.
Why this civil war took place?
Because the Greek communists already before WW2 and by orders from Moscow, they were demanding the libaration of the (Greek) Macedonia which would declare its independence from Greece - note that the other two Macedonias were created in 1945. In other words the Greek communists were secessionists demanding the dismemberment of Macedonia from Greece.
All these ended with the communists losing in the Greek Civil war.
The 1945 Socialist Republic of Macedonia continued to exist within Yugoslavia, and when the latter fell this 1945 communist creation became an independent state called just Macedonia with the 1945 communist claims towards Greece (on land, ancestry, language, history, etc) becoming a very real problem to Greece, which for obvious reasons could never agree nor even discuss such outrageous demands.
Communism is a desease
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The short answer is: because of the 1945-1949 Greek civil war.
The slightly longer answer is: USSR had plans for the wider region including Greece even before WW2: they were planning to create a Balkan USSR which would either include Greece as a whole, or at least/surely its northern part (the historical region of Macedonia which lies in all its extends in Greece, a region which was essential to this Union in order to have access to the Aegean and of course the Mediterranean Sea. This would mean that USSR already having control over the Black Sea, they would control the Aegean Sea, thus also the entrance to the Black Sea, as well as the Eastern and central Mediterranean Sea, thus the Suez Canal, the Northern and Eastern Africa and so on.
So what did USSR did to ensure these plans?
Moscow ordered within the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia a new federal state to be created named Socialist Republic of Macedonia which would be a nation-state. This took place in 1945. This new imaginary nation-state supposedly consisted by Macedonians, who spoke Macedonian (they just baptized the language as such, etc, and in their 1945 Declaration they claimed that Macedonia is one united region, more than half of which was conquered and occupied by force by Greece, referring to historical region of Macedonia (always in Greece. They claimed that their country and the people was devided and they aimed to. reunite; that these people are not Slavs (as everyone knew since the Slavs migrated in the region, but antique Macedonians, direct descendants of Philip and Alexander the Great, who reclaim their fatherlands (NOTE at this point that the outcome of this communist mess, is modern North Macedonia, which until 2018 laid the exact same claims towards Greece. They laid the foundations to attack Greece to conduct a liberational war.
At the same time (1945) in communist Bulgaria (not a federal republic so no federal state could be created) they renamed a western region called Pirin to Pirin Macedonia but did not laid direct claims towards Greece. Yet there were two countries with two Macedonias who were agreeing with each other oin the creation of a new Socialist State named Macedonia which would include the (only true) Macedonia down in Greece.
Communism at its b e s t.
Down in Greece in 1945 (same year as above) began a civil war between the Greek communists (who were assisted by the Yugoslavs and the Bulgarians - ie from Moscow) and all the others.
Why this civil war took place?
Because the Greek communists already before WW2 and by orders from Moscow, they were demanding the libaration of the (Greek) Macedonia which would declare its independence from Greece - note that the other two Macedonias were created in 1945. In other words the Greek communists were secessionists demanding the dismemberment of Macedonia from Greece.
All these ended with the communists losing in the Greek Civil war.
The 1945 Socialist Republic of Macedonia continued to exist within Yugoslavia, and when the latter fell this 1945 communist creation became an independent state called just Macedonia with the 1945 communist claims towards Greece (on land, ancestry, language, history, etc) becoming a very real problem to Greece, which for obvious reasons could never agree nor even discuss such outrageous demands.
Communism is a desease
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Unclenogbad
Greece was betrayed. Although most of Eastern Europe was also betrayed by the West, and handed over to Stalin (as per their agreements at Potsdam, etc) Greece was the one that was betrayed while still falling into the Western camp. The largely communist partisans, who had, like all the resistance movements, fought heroically under occupation, rose up once it became clear that the 'Old Order' was to be restored, and their participation in the new democratic Greece was just a chimera. Shamefully, British and American troops were poured into the country to crush this rebellion (mostly British, since the Americans, while demanding it, didn't want to look like the bad guys. Stalin kept out of it because he'd already agreed that Greece was Western property, and gave less of a damn about its communists than Britain did.
It's one of the biggest tragedies of the WW2 endgame, and deserves to be better recognised. The Greek communist party and its working class movement remained influential, hence the West (particularly NATO) supporting and sponsoring the 1960's coup that brought in the military dictatorship of the 'Colonels' - one of the most fascist regimes seen in Europe since the fall of the Nazis. So much for for Western Democratic ideals - yet another chimera, I fear.
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Greece was betrayed. Although most of Eastern Europe was also betrayed by the West, and handed over to Stalin (as per their agreements at Potsdam, etc) Greece was the one that was betrayed while still falling into the Western camp. The largely communist partisans, who had, like all the resistance movements, fought heroically under occupation, rose up once it became clear that the 'Old Order' was to be restored, and their participation in the new democratic Greece was just a chimera. Shamefully, British and American troops were poured into the country to crush this rebellion (mostly British, since the Americans, while demanding it, didn't want to look like the bad guys. Stalin kept out of it because he'd already agreed that Greece was Western property, and gave less of a damn about its communists than Britain did.
It's one of the biggest tragedies of the WW2 endgame, and deserves to be better recognised. The Greek communist party and its working class movement remained influential, hence the West (particularly NATO) supporting and sponsoring the 1960's coup that brought in the military dictatorship of the 'Colonels' - one of the most fascist regimes seen in Europe since the fall of the Nazis. So much for for Western Democratic ideals - yet another chimera, I fear.
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Ian
Because the Nazis were already forced out of mainland Greece by 1944, unlike Poland which was fully occupied by the time the Red Army reached their borders. While resistance groups in Poland struggled to liberate Warsaw on their own before the Red Army could get there in the hopes of Western recognition of the government in exile in control over liberated Polish territory, it didn't work out. The German forces were too difficult to dislodge and the West was going to sell out Poland anyway. (having already approved the moving of Poland's borders without the consent of the Poles. So Poland was occupied with brutal suppression/liquidation of resistance groups and the imposition of a Soviet puppet state.
But with no Nazis to root out of the mainland, and British forces already occupying Greece, Stalin had no reasonable opportunity to drive in and liberate Greece from the Greeks.
Which is why Greece was liberated in 1944, and Poland was liberated in 1989.
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Because the Nazis were already forced out of mainland Greece by 1944, unlike Poland which was fully occupied by the time the Red Army reached their borders. While resistance groups in Poland struggled to liberate Warsaw on their own before the Red Army could get there in the hopes of Western recognition of the government in exile in control over liberated Polish territory, it didn't work out. The German forces were too difficult to dislodge and the West was going to sell out Poland anyway. (having already approved the moving of Poland's borders without the consent of the Poles. So Poland was occupied with brutal suppression/liquidation of resistance groups and the imposition of a Soviet puppet state.
But with no Nazis to root out of the mainland, and British forces already occupying Greece, Stalin had no reasonable opportunity to drive in and liberate Greece from the Greeks.
Which is why Greece was liberated in 1944, and Poland was liberated in 1989.
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The
Really wonderful video! Some thoughts I d like to share:
1. 0: 17 Really nice transition from Greece to the year! I think you should have that for every video from now on (if it isn t too much work)
2. 0: 39 Seamless long use of the map is perfect! Very easy to follow and helps for comprehension
3. 0: 50 You re forgetting that it wasn t just insane for the Allies to invade the Balkans, but to even invade Italy to begin with. The Axis fully expected an invasion once the North African theater was lost, so the British had to use Operation Mincemeat to divert their attention to Greece (incidentally enough) to pull it off (which at first went smoothly, given how unprepared and reliably ineffective the Italian army was)
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Really wonderful video! Some thoughts I d like to share:
1. 0: 17 Really nice transition from Greece to the year! I think you should have that for every video from now on (if it isn t too much work)
2. 0: 39 Seamless long use of the map is perfect! Very easy to follow and helps for comprehension
3. 0: 50 You re forgetting that it wasn t just insane for the Allies to invade the Balkans, but to even invade Italy to begin with. The Axis fully expected an invasion once the North African theater was lost, so the British had to use Operation Mincemeat to divert their attention to Greece (incidentally enough) to pull it off (which at first went smoothly, given how unprepared and reliably ineffective the Italian army was)
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octapusxft
As a Greek, I would like to point out that the civil war that ensued between the communists and the anti communists was a really nasty affair that split families and neighborhoods over differences in allegiance. Both sides committed their share of atrocities to each other. Both sides were so eager to fight each other, that they started to fight even during the German occupation
Even now they avoid teaching anything about it in schools because many people consider it a very recent and sore point.
It also became one of the main sources of Red irredentism in Greece.
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As a Greek, I would like to point out that the civil war that ensued between the communists and the anti communists was a really nasty affair that split families and neighborhoods over differences in allegiance. Both sides committed their share of atrocities to each other. Both sides were so eager to fight each other, that they started to fight even during the German occupation
Even now they avoid teaching anything about it in schools because many people consider it a very recent and sore point.
It also became one of the main sources of Red irredentism in Greece.
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Adel
Also it's important to note that Stalin and Tito were at odds in Greece. Tito was openly supporting the communists in the civil war but Stalin outright threatened Tito over Greece since he knew that the west always considered (until the 1970s) that the communist bloc was a unified entity directed by Moscow which meant that to the west Tito supporting the Greek communists meant that Stalin was supporting the Greek communist and thus he understood that supporting a communist Greece would really push the west into a frenzy against the Soviets.
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Also it's important to note that Stalin and Tito were at odds in Greece. Tito was openly supporting the communists in the civil war but Stalin outright threatened Tito over Greece since he knew that the west always considered (until the 1970s) that the communist bloc was a unified entity directed by Moscow which meant that to the west Tito supporting the Greek communists meant that Stalin was supporting the Greek communist and thus he understood that supporting a communist Greece would really push the west into a frenzy against the Soviets.
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Omri
Its important to note that the Greek Communist partisans liberated the majority of their country from the Nazis during WWII and were hugely popular, armed and organized. Even with western baking, the greek fascist-collaboratores, monarchists and conservatives had no chance against them so the UK eventually intervened directly to suppress the former partisans (and violence in Greece would continue throughout the Cold War with another civil war and a long conflict between the communist party of greece (KKE) and the fascist military junta)
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Its important to note that the Greek Communist partisans liberated the majority of their country from the Nazis during WWII and were hugely popular, armed and organized. Even with western baking, the greek fascist-collaboratores, monarchists and conservatives had no chance against them so the UK eventually intervened directly to suppress the former partisans (and violence in Greece would continue throughout the Cold War with another civil war and a long conflict between the communist party of greece (KKE) and the fascist military junta)
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ryojin
Important to stress out that when Britain asked help from anyone who wasn't commnunist this basically meant that the nazi collaborators in Greece instead of getting punished after the war, had a great opportunity to get powerful positions and get arms, to fight against the communists. In the next decades, and until now, the Greek political scene as well as the upper social classes, had a significant part of people that were either nazi helpers, or their descendants.
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Important to stress out that when Britain asked help from anyone who wasn't commnunist this basically meant that the nazi collaborators in Greece instead of getting punished after the war, had a great opportunity to get powerful positions and get arms, to fight against the communists. In the next decades, and until now, the Greek political scene as well as the upper social classes, had a significant part of people that were either nazi helpers, or their descendants.
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pancudowny
I'm sorry, but. shouldn't FDR be wearing glasses? And be seated in a wheelchair? Is it too much for the video's creator to create? Or too distinctive? Or, just his little way of being sensitive?
Let's not deny the facts, people. Things were as they were, and that's it. Trying to control or change information about the past is just censorship, and another step towards another non-PC form of society: George Orwell's dystopia. And you KNOW the one I mean!
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I'm sorry, but. shouldn't FDR be wearing glasses? And be seated in a wheelchair? Is it too much for the video's creator to create? Or too distinctive? Or, just his little way of being sensitive?
Let's not deny the facts, people. Things were as they were, and that's it. Trying to control or change information about the past is just censorship, and another step towards another non-PC form of society: George Orwell's dystopia. And you KNOW the one I mean!
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Nikolaos
What's also interesting is that during the Greek Civil War, the USSR and Yugoslavia fell out. For some reason, the Greek Communists sided with the USSR, which had abstained from supporting them in any way, rather than Yugoslavia, which had been supporting them with volunteers and supplies throughout the civil war. Yugoslavian support ceased as a result, which was yet another nail in the coffin for the Greek Communists.
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What's also interesting is that during the Greek Civil War, the USSR and Yugoslavia fell out. For some reason, the Greek Communists sided with the USSR, which had abstained from supporting them in any way, rather than Yugoslavia, which had been supporting them with volunteers and supplies throughout the civil war. Yugoslavian support ceased as a result, which was yet another nail in the coffin for the Greek Communists.
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Pavlos
You failed to mention the Greek civil war. As to that alternative history, I think we'd have been OK. Greece would have been the jewel of the Soviet block with its location in the Mediterranean, Orthodox tradition, and cultural ties. As opposed to being some parochial child of the west. The Soviet block too would be a happier place with access to the southern Mediterranean and the shipping resources that Greece allowed.
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You failed to mention the Greek civil war. As to that alternative history, I think we'd have been OK. Greece would have been the jewel of the Soviet block with its location in the Mediterranean, Orthodox tradition, and cultural ties. As opposed to being some parochial child of the west. The Soviet block too would be a happier place with access to the southern Mediterranean and the shipping resources that Greece allowed.
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Luke
A particularly great video, thanks!
One thing - I understand why you wish to recognise your supporters, but by reeling off the list of names at the end of every video I find it difficult to binge your content.
Wouldn't be so bad if the videos were longer in duration but the bitesize format results in a significant percentage of time listening to the same names over and over again.
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A particularly great video, thanks!
One thing - I understand why you wish to recognise your supporters, but by reeling off the list of names at the end of every video I find it difficult to binge your content.
Wouldn't be so bad if the videos were longer in duration but the bitesize format results in a significant percentage of time listening to the same names over and over again.
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Laurence
It would be interesting to imagine how a communist Greece would have turned out. Since both Yugoslavia and Albania broke ranks with the Soviet Union, it's easy to imagine that Greece - cut off from the Warsaw pact - would have done likewise. The clashes with Turkey over Cyprus would also likely have been more severe since the two nations would not have been nominal allies via NATO.
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It would be interesting to imagine how a communist Greece would have turned out. Since both Yugoslavia and Albania broke ranks with the Soviet Union, it's easy to imagine that Greece - cut off from the Warsaw pact - would have done likewise. The clashes with Turkey over Cyprus would also likely have been more severe since the two nations would not have been nominal allies via NATO.
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Edward
I enjoy many of your videos, but you kind of skipped over that whole Greek Civil War thing, U. S. successful (for a change) counter-insurgency support, the Communists kidnapping kids, and other messy but important aspects of 1945-1949. Not to mention the Marshall Plan delivering big a-- Missouri mules for Greek farmers to help them resume working the land and grow more food.
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I enjoy many of your videos, but you kind of skipped over that whole Greek Civil War thing, U. S. successful (for a change) counter-insurgency support, the Communists kidnapping kids, and other messy but important aspects of 1945-1949. Not to mention the Marshall Plan delivering big a-- Missouri mules for Greek farmers to help them resume working the land and grow more food.
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Manos
Unfortunately denazification never happened in Greece. Which is really hurting us badly until today, with an unhinged state and brainwashed citizens.
However the legacy of the greek liberation army in the war against the Germans and in the civil war against the facists will be forever bright, and in my opinion the most beautiful page in the modern Greek history.
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Unfortunately denazification never happened in Greece. Which is really hurting us badly until today, with an unhinged state and brainwashed citizens.
However the legacy of the greek liberation army in the war against the Germans and in the civil war against the facists will be forever bright, and in my opinion the most beautiful page in the modern Greek history.
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Juli n
The end of WWII was pretty much the scramble for East Europe. Stalin didn't care much for olive oil or wine. He was more interested in Germany.
Britain, on the other hand, didn't want a communist party in their trada routes, yet they end up having socialist governments in many of their ex-colonies (Egypt and most of the Baaz run Middle East.
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The end of WWII was pretty much the scramble for East Europe. Stalin didn't care much for olive oil or wine. He was more interested in Germany.
Britain, on the other hand, didn't want a communist party in their trada routes, yet they end up having socialist governments in many of their ex-colonies (Egypt and most of the Baaz run Middle East.
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Benj min
After the Civil War, tens of thousands Greeks escaped to Hungary. Many of them later returned or moved on, but some remained. Not too far from Budapest, there is still a Greek town called Beloiannisz founded in about 1950 for these refugees. So yeah, a Greek town in Hungary. kinda cool.
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After the Civil War, tens of thousands Greeks escaped to Hungary. Many of them later returned or moved on, but some remained. Not too far from Budapest, there is still a Greek town called Beloiannisz founded in about 1950 for these refugees. So yeah, a Greek town in Hungary. kinda cool.
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Diamond
So Stalin didn't interven in a neutral country and didn't force them to join his military block because it would threaten another country security and could start world war?
I feel someone should have learn a thing or two from that. Maybe we would have one less war today.
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So Stalin didn't interven in a neutral country and didn't force them to join his military block because it would threaten another country security and could start world war?
I feel someone should have learn a thing or two from that. Maybe we would have one less war today.
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Lance
There was one big difference to Greece then the other countries mentioned, there actually were large numbers of Western Allied troops on the ground as the Germans retreated that prevented the Soviets and it proxies from effectively taking over.
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There was one big difference to Greece then the other countries mentioned, there actually were large numbers of Western Allied troops on the ground as the Germans retreated that prevented the Soviets and it proxies from effectively taking over.
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Jeff
And why would Roosevelt be against saving monarchies instead of more Soviet puppet states? Royalty has it's many flaws but they weren't in a position to be superpowers and there is still SOME accountability to the people.
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And why would Roosevelt be against saving monarchies instead of more Soviet puppet states? Royalty has it's many flaws but they weren't in a position to be superpowers and there is still SOME accountability to the people.
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