Why did Thailand join the axis (Short Animated Documentary)
video description
But I would say we owe a lot to the British for taking the northern Malay states away from Siamese suzerainty and into their protection, because otherwise the fate of the northern peninsular Malays would be just like those of Pattani: divided, ruled over by Thais, and forcibly assimilated into their culture at the cost of our own.
The ruling political faction of one of those states today seem to have forgotten to be thankful to be part of Malaysia and get along with Penang, because the alternative would simply be they wouldn't even be Malay ruling their own state.
Date: 2024-02-01
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Comments and reviews: 19
paritchi
As a Thai historian, please let me presented some points missed in the video here.
This video misses two important points. The first one is that the anti-colonial and nationalist trend that was surging throughout Southeast Asia then. Siam/Thailand had just emerged from a revolution which was democratic and nationalist in nature. The leaders of the revolution, including Pibul himself, saw Japan as a fellow Asian nation that could modernize quickly to the point that it can compete European powers, and hoped that Japan would help driving the European out of SEA. The second point is that the British unpreparedness for war. The British once proposed to Siam to join the Allies in an upcoming war. However, the Siamese envoys in Singapore reported that the British troop there and in Malaya was by any means unready for war and it would be impossible for them to win a war if it was invaded by Japan.
When the Japanese invasion of Siam began, the cabinet debated whether to officially join the war on the side of Axis, or just do nothing more than allowing the Japanese free passage. Pibul pointed out to the cabinet that the Japanese were going to win, and the nation should joy in order to get some war spoils shared. Indeed, the Japanese didn’t win. Pibul was removed from power when the tide turned against Japan, though not by a military coup but a vote of censure instead. The power was then handed to the pro-allied Free Thai factions before Pibul got into power after a coup some years later.
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As a Thai historian, please let me presented some points missed in the video here.
This video misses two important points. The first one is that the anti-colonial and nationalist trend that was surging throughout Southeast Asia then. Siam/Thailand had just emerged from a revolution which was democratic and nationalist in nature. The leaders of the revolution, including Pibul himself, saw Japan as a fellow Asian nation that could modernize quickly to the point that it can compete European powers, and hoped that Japan would help driving the European out of SEA. The second point is that the British unpreparedness for war. The British once proposed to Siam to join the Allies in an upcoming war. However, the Siamese envoys in Singapore reported that the British troop there and in Malaya was by any means unready for war and it would be impossible for them to win a war if it was invaded by Japan.
When the Japanese invasion of Siam began, the cabinet debated whether to officially join the war on the side of Axis, or just do nothing more than allowing the Japanese free passage. Pibul pointed out to the cabinet that the Japanese were going to win, and the nation should joy in order to get some war spoils shared. Indeed, the Japanese didn’t win. Pibul was removed from power when the tide turned against Japan, though not by a military coup but a vote of censure instead. The power was then handed to the pro-allied Free Thai factions before Pibul got into power after a coup some years later.
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history_matters
Isn’t the capital of Thailand called Grung Tape, not Bangkok I found this in one of my books:
What is the name of the capital city of Thailand
Grung Tape.
The city’s day-to-day name, which means City of Angels (the same as Los Angeles) is an abbreviation for the official name, which is the longest place name in the world.
Only ignorant foreigners call it Bangkok, which hasn’t been used in Thailand for more than 200 years. For Europeans (and every single one of their encyclopedias) to go on calling the capital of Thailand Bangkok is a bit like Thais insisting that the capital of Britain is called Billingsgate or Winchester.
Grung Tape (the rough pronunciation) is usually spelled Krung Thep.
Bangkok was the name of the small fishing port that used to exist before King Rama 1 moved his capital there in 1782, built a city on the site, and renamed it
It keeps on going, but yeah Bangkok is the wrong name. I’m surprised none of the viewers from Thailand have mentioned this yet
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Isn’t the capital of Thailand called Grung Tape, not Bangkok I found this in one of my books:
What is the name of the capital city of Thailand
Grung Tape.
The city’s day-to-day name, which means City of Angels (the same as Los Angeles) is an abbreviation for the official name, which is the longest place name in the world.
Only ignorant foreigners call it Bangkok, which hasn’t been used in Thailand for more than 200 years. For Europeans (and every single one of their encyclopedias) to go on calling the capital of Thailand Bangkok is a bit like Thais insisting that the capital of Britain is called Billingsgate or Winchester.
Grung Tape (the rough pronunciation) is usually spelled Krung Thep.
Bangkok was the name of the small fishing port that used to exist before King Rama 1 moved his capital there in 1782, built a city on the site, and renamed it
It keeps on going, but yeah Bangkok is the wrong name. I’m surprised none of the viewers from Thailand have mentioned this yet
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WaterShowsProd
First, well done on a very reasonably correct pronunciation of Plaek Phibul Songkhram. I was surprised there was no mention of Prdi Bhanomyong who, while initially being one of the chief architects of the revolution that ended absolute monarchy alongside Phibul Songkhram, was in exile due to political disagreement. He intercepted the declaration of war sent to The United States and with American aid founded The Seri Thai resistance which undermined Japanese operations while The Allies prepared for a big push to reclaim Burmawhich where The Japanese were also being undermined by resistance forces led by Aung San, and Karen malitias. OK, that part would have been out of the scope of this video, but I still thought there would have been a mention of Pridi Bhanomyong. That said, great overview of the situation. And some of that territory ceded to France was still a sticking issue up to this century when The International Court had to rule on which side of the border Preah Vihear sits on.
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First, well done on a very reasonably correct pronunciation of Plaek Phibul Songkhram. I was surprised there was no mention of Prdi Bhanomyong who, while initially being one of the chief architects of the revolution that ended absolute monarchy alongside Phibul Songkhram, was in exile due to political disagreement. He intercepted the declaration of war sent to The United States and with American aid founded The Seri Thai resistance which undermined Japanese operations while The Allies prepared for a big push to reclaim Burmawhich where The Japanese were also being undermined by resistance forces led by Aung San, and Karen malitias. OK, that part would have been out of the scope of this video, but I still thought there would have been a mention of Pridi Bhanomyong. That said, great overview of the situation. And some of that territory ceded to France was still a sticking issue up to this century when The International Court had to rule on which side of the border Preah Vihear sits on.
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Zimisce85
These past days I had a question in mind which would be perfect for History Matters to answer: why the Republic of Venice fell without even an attempt to resist (as she did a few century before against a huge coalition, mobilizing also the peasants and every resource managing to stall the enemies. If not against the overwelming armies of Napoleon, why not in 1814 I mean, the Austrian armies were stronger too, but a few decades before the Venetian never gave the impression that their army was so much weaker that they couldn't defend themselves. For instance, in 1763 they were still had a diplomatic dispute with the empire about some western borders.
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These past days I had a question in mind which would be perfect for History Matters to answer: why the Republic of Venice fell without even an attempt to resist (as she did a few century before against a huge coalition, mobilizing also the peasants and every resource managing to stall the enemies. If not against the overwelming armies of Napoleon, why not in 1814 I mean, the Austrian armies were stronger too, but a few decades before the Venetian never gave the impression that their army was so much weaker that they couldn't defend themselves. For instance, in 1763 they were still had a diplomatic dispute with the empire about some western borders.
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drawer_resp3858
As a Thai, We are really good at appealing to both sides.
We allow Japanese access, but keep minimal help with fighting British, as mentioned in the video.
The new government they glace about at the end of the war were also come from 'Free Thai' resistant movement, who provided covert information to the British and the US. And many of them were government officials since during the war.
If it's a game, it's like letting rebel group allied with the allies during the war, then surrendered to them when Axis lost. A smooth side switch, we virtually neither win nor lose.
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As a Thai, We are really good at appealing to both sides.
We allow Japanese access, but keep minimal help with fighting British, as mentioned in the video.
The new government they glace about at the end of the war were also come from 'Free Thai' resistant movement, who provided covert information to the British and the US. And many of them were government officials since during the war.
If it's a game, it's like letting rebel group allied with the allies during the war, then surrendered to them when Axis lost. A smooth side switch, we virtually neither win nor lose.
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kitfisto999
Fun fact: Even though Thailand declared war on both the US and British Empire, the declaration of war never made it to the US government. This was because our ambassador to the US, Seni Pramoj refused to side with the government and decided to organise an anti-Phibun and anti-Axis resistance known as the Seri Thai (Free Thai) Movement. Also, Seni later became the prime minister during the late 1940s after Khuang Aphaiwong and then more prominently, in the 1970s.
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Fun fact: Even though Thailand declared war on both the US and British Empire, the declaration of war never made it to the US government. This was because our ambassador to the US, Seni Pramoj refused to side with the government and decided to organise an anti-Phibun and anti-Axis resistance known as the Seri Thai (Free Thai) Movement. Also, Seni later became the prime minister during the late 1940s after Khuang Aphaiwong and then more prominently, in the 1970s.
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paulphanachet
If I remember correctly Phibun stepped down from power during his first term during the war because his government failed to pass two legislations (1. To establish a the Buddhist city, 2. To move to capital to petchabun. But the animation made it look like he was overthrown 2: 47
Also you missed out on the free Thai which was another crazy story on its own and would’ve explain the situation and the outcome of the war on Thailand a bit better
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If I remember correctly Phibun stepped down from power during his first term during the war because his government failed to pass two legislations (1. To establish a the Buddhist city, 2. To move to capital to petchabun. But the animation made it look like he was overthrown 2: 47
Also you missed out on the free Thai which was another crazy story on its own and would’ve explain the situation and the outcome of the war on Thailand a bit better
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thboy1037
Great article. I would like to add that after the war, the US did not ask for the punishment for Thai government as Britain and France did. In return, Thailand became a US ally. I suggest the US Thailand alliance during the Cold War, and Thailand's struggle in the battle with the Communists after the US withdrawal from Indochina during the 1980s as the sequels of this video. These topics are very less discussed outside Thai academic circle too.
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Great article. I would like to add that after the war, the US did not ask for the punishment for Thai government as Britain and France did. In return, Thailand became a US ally. I suggest the US Thailand alliance during the Cold War, and Thailand's struggle in the battle with the Communists after the US withdrawal from Indochina during the 1980s as the sequels of this video. These topics are very less discussed outside Thai academic circle too.
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Jotari
We think of World War II as the righteous allies against the evil axis, but it was more like the colonial overlords against the evil axis. The allies only seen remotely good because the axis took the whole evil thing wayyyy further than was necessary. But for a lot of people caught in the middle it was a choice between the radical new racists who wanted to conquer the world or the instutional racists who had already conquered the world.
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We think of World War II as the righteous allies against the evil axis, but it was more like the colonial overlords against the evil axis. The allies only seen remotely good because the axis took the whole evil thing wayyyy further than was necessary. But for a lot of people caught in the middle it was a choice between the radical new racists who wanted to conquer the world or the instutional racists who had already conquered the world.
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moe_gundam4583
Let me add a little more that we got Japanese invasion of Thailand by 2nd Fleet (Imperial Japanese Navy) and The 1st Fleet was Attack on Pearl Harbor in a same time 7 December but 8 December 1941 in thai land because time zone The difference is here has Fifteenth Army and Twenty-Fifth Army got landed atlest We stop them on the beach for 5 hours That almost 200, 000 ton fleet ok we do well enough i think
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Let me add a little more that we got Japanese invasion of Thailand by 2nd Fleet (Imperial Japanese Navy) and The 1st Fleet was Attack on Pearl Harbor in a same time 7 December but 8 December 1941 in thai land because time zone The difference is here has Fifteenth Army and Twenty-Fifth Army got landed atlest We stop them on the beach for 5 hours That almost 200, 000 ton fleet ok we do well enough i think
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SiPakRubah
Fun fact; The British wanted to take more land than the one they already take back in 1946, especially the current area of Southern Thailand, but the US prevent them from taking it due to not formally declared war, and it was the Japanese declared it for them
So, they declared an Anglo-Thai Peace Treaty where Thailand can keep those territories as was agreed from the Bangkok Treaty of 1909 border
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Fun fact; The British wanted to take more land than the one they already take back in 1946, especially the current area of Southern Thailand, but the US prevent them from taking it due to not formally declared war, and it was the Japanese declared it for them
So, they declared an Anglo-Thai Peace Treaty where Thailand can keep those territories as was agreed from the Bangkok Treaty of 1909 border
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lieutenantvizz167
In a way Thailand reason for joining the axis is very similar to Bulgaria's reasons
1. They wanted their old territories
2. They can't resist an axis invasion
Their way of joining the war and exiting it is also similar. They first join the war by just giving military access, and exit it by switching sides.
Edit:
They also still get territories even after lose the war.
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In a way Thailand reason for joining the axis is very similar to Bulgaria's reasons
1. They wanted their old territories
2. They can't resist an axis invasion
Their way of joining the war and exiting it is also similar. They first join the war by just giving military access, and exit it by switching sides.
Edit:
They also still get territories even after lose the war.
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erickariuki6842
People have no idea how many countries hated France and Britain. If Africa could fight or had modern arms, we would definitely have joined the Axis side or at least remained Neutral. French and British colonial rule was brutal esp. after WW2 and independence movements sprung up. Don't forget Israel helped Rhodesia and South Africa get weapons, develop nukes and bypass sanctions.
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People have no idea how many countries hated France and Britain. If Africa could fight or had modern arms, we would definitely have joined the Axis side or at least remained Neutral. French and British colonial rule was brutal esp. after WW2 and independence movements sprung up. Don't forget Israel helped Rhodesia and South Africa get weapons, develop nukes and bypass sanctions.
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sarayutartwong4761
fun fact: Plaek Phibunsongkhram didnt remove out of government by force, but remove with motion of no confidence by Parliment for responding of severe economic problems and for buliding new capital city in Phetchabun province (in case of bangkok lost to allied invasion. which cost a thousond of worker and labour who died form malaria.
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fun fact: Plaek Phibunsongkhram didnt remove out of government by force, but remove with motion of no confidence by Parliment for responding of severe economic problems and for buliding new capital city in Phetchabun province (in case of bangkok lost to allied invasion. which cost a thousond of worker and labour who died form malaria.
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sahar3820
Bruh even in WW2 where Britian and France were allies, the British still had that classic 100 Years War grudge against France where they didn't give a dmn if France lost it's colonies. Britain wanted to be the top dog in that department.
Yes I know why Britain didn't defend France oversee territories in WW2 but it's still funny regardless.
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Bruh even in WW2 where Britian and France were allies, the British still had that classic 100 Years War grudge against France where they didn't give a dmn if France lost it's colonies. Britain wanted to be the top dog in that department.
Yes I know why Britain didn't defend France oversee territories in WW2 but it's still funny regardless.
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yamayago1641
Good to mention that the reason why Pleak hold grudges against France because back when Pleak was study at France he got told by French officer something like Thailand where is that which country is the coloniser of that barbaric country Making Pleak swear that one day he will make Thailand become great power and slap France in the face.
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Good to mention that the reason why Pleak hold grudges against France because back when Pleak was study at France he got told by French officer something like Thailand where is that which country is the coloniser of that barbaric country Making Pleak swear that one day he will make Thailand become great power and slap France in the face.
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edwardblair4096
You left out the official USA position that the legitimate government of Thailand was overthrown and therefore joined the Axis unwillingly. This made it easier to reinstall a government in exile and pretend that they were not really an Axis country themselves, but actually conquered territory.
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You left out the official USA position that the legitimate government of Thailand was overthrown and therefore joined the Axis unwillingly. This made it easier to reinstall a government in exile and pretend that they were not really an Axis country themselves, but actually conquered territory.
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gratefuldeadly7899
the reason is simple: British did horrendous things in Thailand and India, so the Thai ppl would rather cast their lot with the Japanese than British. Also they were inspired by Japan who defeated colonial powers France and Britain. What they got to lose anyway
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the reason is simple: British did horrendous things in Thailand and India, so the Thai ppl would rather cast their lot with the Japanese than British. Also they were inspired by Japan who defeated colonial powers France and Britain. What they got to lose anyway
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mankytoes
Possibly connected- Thai people sometimes casually wear Nazi symbolism, it doesn't really indicate belief, it's just fashion. Imagine the shock on my little Jewish face when I was in Bangkok and a middle aged woman walks towards me with a full Nazi crest on her t-shirt.
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Possibly connected- Thai people sometimes casually wear Nazi symbolism, it doesn't really indicate belief, it's just fashion. Imagine the shock on my little Jewish face when I was in Bangkok and a middle aged woman walks towards me with a full Nazi crest on her t-shirt.
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