Would you raise the bird that murdered your children? - Steve Rothstein
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Date: 2021-12-15
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Comments and reviews: 9
education
I have to articulate this point once more on morality because it's a nuanced problem. The video presents a graceful and complex problem to the ethicist, moral theorist and the moralist alike. Let's say someone wants to morally judge with moderate moral disgust the idea of bird brood parasitism. Then let's say we make a meta-moral judgement of the moral judgement because bird brood parasitism is an evolved imperative, not a reasoned reasoned act. But if we admit that in some way the moral disgust is an evolved imperative then to be consistent with our meta-moral judgement, we must not judge the initial moral judgement. Do you see the paradox? The bird cannot help but practice brood parasitism so how can we judge it? Therefore we judge the judgement, implying we should not judge. But we cannot help but practice moral judgements for the same reason they cannot practice brood parasitism. Therefore we cannot judge the judgement without accepting the judgement. Whereas if we just accept the judgement, we cannot accept evolution as a justification for not being disgusted by a practice. It's special pleading. But it's hard to see because it comes from a place of trying to avoid philosophical anthropomorphisms when examining non-human social behaviour.
I think the deeper ethical question is always ever just: do we even know enough to do any better? Sometimes we do because it's a matter of a human reality, but when it's not a matter of a human reality the question is magnified in difficulty. Sure, we're disgusted by bird brood parasitism and that's unavoidable for some. But can we do better for the bird kingdom such that there is reduced brood parasitism without there being fewer species but a normal ecosystem otherwise? I feel like the answer to that question is, presently, no. We couldn't do better. So if we cannot move from moral problems to ethical solutions, what are the ethical possibilities available to us? What are the moral problems in range for beings of our knowledge?
Further, how do we increase the range of problems available to us to be solved and in doing so expand the range of ethical possibilities?
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I have to articulate this point once more on morality because it's a nuanced problem. The video presents a graceful and complex problem to the ethicist, moral theorist and the moralist alike. Let's say someone wants to morally judge with moderate moral disgust the idea of bird brood parasitism. Then let's say we make a meta-moral judgement of the moral judgement because bird brood parasitism is an evolved imperative, not a reasoned reasoned act. But if we admit that in some way the moral disgust is an evolved imperative then to be consistent with our meta-moral judgement, we must not judge the initial moral judgement. Do you see the paradox? The bird cannot help but practice brood parasitism so how can we judge it? Therefore we judge the judgement, implying we should not judge. But we cannot help but practice moral judgements for the same reason they cannot practice brood parasitism. Therefore we cannot judge the judgement without accepting the judgement. Whereas if we just accept the judgement, we cannot accept evolution as a justification for not being disgusted by a practice. It's special pleading. But it's hard to see because it comes from a place of trying to avoid philosophical anthropomorphisms when examining non-human social behaviour.
I think the deeper ethical question is always ever just: do we even know enough to do any better? Sometimes we do because it's a matter of a human reality, but when it's not a matter of a human reality the question is magnified in difficulty. Sure, we're disgusted by bird brood parasitism and that's unavoidable for some. But can we do better for the bird kingdom such that there is reduced brood parasitism without there being fewer species but a normal ecosystem otherwise? I feel like the answer to that question is, presently, no. We couldn't do better. So if we cannot move from moral problems to ethical solutions, what are the ethical possibilities available to us? What are the moral problems in range for beings of our knowledge?
Further, how do we increase the range of problems available to us to be solved and in doing so expand the range of ethical possibilities?
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L. N.
I've always wondered about what the brood parasite parent birds do afterwards. Since they don't have to raise their own chick, what do they do instead with that time now? Have more children to lay in other nests? Or just stop breeding for the season and do other things?
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I've always wondered about what the brood parasite parent birds do afterwards. Since they don't have to raise their own chick, what do they do instead with that time now? Have more children to lay in other nests? Or just stop breeding for the season and do other things?
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Amrutjyoti
Being a Science student and that too preparing for NEET, it was quite a relief from the textbook language of describing brood parasitism. I really think more examples should be included other than the usual Cuckoo in NCERT textbook. But the video did bring a smile
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Being a Science student and that too preparing for NEET, it was quite a relief from the textbook language of describing brood parasitism. I really think more examples should be included other than the usual Cuckoo in NCERT textbook. But the video did bring a smile
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OrdinaryDemon
A funny contrast to these bird species, who cant distingiush their brood from impostors, while we are able to do it, are penguins. They often live in colonies of hundreds and despite them looking identical to us, parents are able to identify their own chicks.
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A funny contrast to these bird species, who cant distingiush their brood from impostors, while we are able to do it, are penguins. They often live in colonies of hundreds and despite them looking identical to us, parents are able to identify their own chicks.
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Ducky
You shouldn t demonise parasitic birds as it causes prejudice and hate towards them.
It s just part of their breeding strategy.
Some parasitic birds are having a hard time in the wild and while this video is educating, demonising them doesn t help anyone.
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You shouldn t demonise parasitic birds as it causes prejudice and hate towards them.
It s just part of their breeding strategy.
Some parasitic birds are having a hard time in the wild and while this video is educating, demonising them doesn t help anyone.
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Bilvoa
I can't justify brood parasitism. What if it drives a species to extinction? Like all other parasites, this type still creates problems for the host. Isn't it putting several species at risk for only a single species to thrive?
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I can't justify brood parasitism. What if it drives a species to extinction? Like all other parasites, this type still creates problems for the host. Isn't it putting several species at risk for only a single species to thrive?
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Khalfani
Brood parasitism. invokes horror and disdain, but why. is it worse than predators vs prey Animals killing other animals is also terrible almost nobody thinks it's morally good that animals have to kill each other to survive.
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Brood parasitism. invokes horror and disdain, but why. is it worse than predators vs prey Animals killing other animals is also terrible almost nobody thinks it's morally good that animals have to kill each other to survive.
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Cianitrihs
It's unexpected birds seem to use so many different strategies to gain the nurture and support of others. However, given our own world, the only thing surprising is how close some parallels are.
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It's unexpected birds seem to use so many different strategies to gain the nurture and support of others. However, given our own world, the only thing surprising is how close some parallels are.
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Evan
maybe some of the host birds just want to nurture their chicks in their nest even though they know they are not theirs? this is a very human bias of mine but maybe the birds just want more child?
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maybe some of the host birds just want to nurture their chicks in their nest even though they know they are not theirs? this is a very human bias of mine but maybe the birds just want more child?
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