The WW2 Showdown In The Middle East Desert Generals Timeline
video description
The shore landings at Juno beach had better success than Gold or Sword and part of a Canadian division made huge advances. Not certain of all the factors, but I remember the doc interviewed several veterans (both, Soldiers and Officers) and they were stunned when they were ordered to halt.
. and just when they were about to occupy the un-occupied hedge-rows.
What might have been.
Also, Monty's spin on his own 'history', as he sees it, reminds me of the scene in Breaking Bad where Saul Goodman is 'tap dancing', in his office, trying (just before Walt attacks him) to sooth Walt's ruffled feathers.
Sauls response to Walt's accusation, that corners him, 'Lets not get caught up in the Who, Why, and When's. '
A bit random to make that c8nnection, but that scene just kills me.
Full respect to the doc, the presenter, and most of all. the 2 Generals who history. or Monty) snubbed.
History has been corrected.
Cheers from a former Soldier
Date: 2022-07-19
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Comments and reviews: 19
Victor
This documentary is very good, but it's not unbiased (nothing really is. Correlli Barnett is an excellent writer and military historian, but he's got a personal belief in which the British collectivism developed throughout the 19th century was responsible for the downfall of everything he loved about Britain, the ruthless self-righteous imperial Britain. He is critical of 19th century laissez-faire liberalism and humanism and it's only natural that he would be critical of a general who gave much emphasis on the psychological and emotional aspects of his subordinates like Montgomery. Yes, Montgomery was vain, exaggerated his deeds, thought too much of himself and was probably horrible to work with. But Barnett is a Bismackian conservative who thinks about war as a tool of conquest and that worrying about the lowest ranks is rather futile. And I don't see how an unemotional pragmatist like Barnett would ever like a general like Montgomery who was all emotion (for good or for bad.
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This documentary is very good, but it's not unbiased (nothing really is. Correlli Barnett is an excellent writer and military historian, but he's got a personal belief in which the British collectivism developed throughout the 19th century was responsible for the downfall of everything he loved about Britain, the ruthless self-righteous imperial Britain. He is critical of 19th century laissez-faire liberalism and humanism and it's only natural that he would be critical of a general who gave much emphasis on the psychological and emotional aspects of his subordinates like Montgomery. Yes, Montgomery was vain, exaggerated his deeds, thought too much of himself and was probably horrible to work with. But Barnett is a Bismackian conservative who thinks about war as a tool of conquest and that worrying about the lowest ranks is rather futile. And I don't see how an unemotional pragmatist like Barnett would ever like a general like Montgomery who was all emotion (for good or for bad.
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RonaldReaganRocks1
Monty was at the very beginning of his supply chain, and Rommel was at the end of his, as Flash Point History said. He was flush with troops and had more than twice the number of troops that Rommel had, and something like four times the tanks. Rommel's troops had be worn down, while Monty had fresh troops. He would have had to really suck in order to lose. He also blundered pretty bad at Market Garden. That was his plan, not Eisenhower's. Eisenhower expressed his doubts about it, saying it was too complex, which is exactly why it failed. Monty convinced him to sign off on it, so he did. Monty was kind of overrated. Patton was not.
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Monty was at the very beginning of his supply chain, and Rommel was at the end of his, as Flash Point History said. He was flush with troops and had more than twice the number of troops that Rommel had, and something like four times the tanks. Rommel's troops had be worn down, while Monty had fresh troops. He would have had to really suck in order to lose. He also blundered pretty bad at Market Garden. That was his plan, not Eisenhower's. Eisenhower expressed his doubts about it, saying it was too complex, which is exactly why it failed. Monty convinced him to sign off on it, so he did. Monty was kind of overrated. Patton was not.
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Thomas
A Legend was born? Seriously? He won one Battle. ONE! Against a foe who was cut-off from his supply lines and with very little Fuel for his Army. Add to that he had a huge advantage in man-power, in Arms, in Munitions. everything! I would think MANY commanders could succeed with such huge advantages. Add to that, he had an ego that was as big as England itself! Because of Monty the Falaise Gap wasn't closed and they ended up being the very soldiers who cost him (and 20, 000 soldiers) in Market Garden. He's a defensive Commander and he's not comfortable when his army is called on to the offense.
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A Legend was born? Seriously? He won one Battle. ONE! Against a foe who was cut-off from his supply lines and with very little Fuel for his Army. Add to that he had a huge advantage in man-power, in Arms, in Munitions. everything! I would think MANY commanders could succeed with such huge advantages. Add to that, he had an ego that was as big as England itself! Because of Monty the Falaise Gap wasn't closed and they ended up being the very soldiers who cost him (and 20, 000 soldiers) in Market Garden. He's a defensive Commander and he's not comfortable when his army is called on to the offense.
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Thomas
I read Carelli Barnett's book in 1963, so I was aware Monty had his faults. But he did provide the 8th Army with what they desperately needed in a leader at the time. Not fair to the Auk but keeping the clueless Ritchie around was what doomed him. The greatest injustice was what happened to Dorman-Smith, but he had made too many enemies in the army to survive. Ritchie though a doorknob went on to further commands because people liked him. People, especially those not the brightest resent you when you are too clever.
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I read Carelli Barnett's book in 1963, so I was aware Monty had his faults. But he did provide the 8th Army with what they desperately needed in a leader at the time. Not fair to the Auk but keeping the clueless Ritchie around was what doomed him. The greatest injustice was what happened to Dorman-Smith, but he had made too many enemies in the army to survive. Ritchie though a doorknob went on to further commands because people liked him. People, especially those not the brightest resent you when you are too clever.
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AngSt3r13
It baffles that the presenter says that Montgomery's tactic, the projection of personality, was 'brilliant and innovative leadership' when Napoleon had been doing it over 100 years before. I'm not trying to take away from the brilliance of the idea or Montgomery for employing it but you'd think that this would be at least heard of before 1942 given that Napoleon was one of the best generals of all time who was well known for inspiring great loyalty, and acts of bravery, in his soldiers.
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It baffles that the presenter says that Montgomery's tactic, the projection of personality, was 'brilliant and innovative leadership' when Napoleon had been doing it over 100 years before. I'm not trying to take away from the brilliance of the idea or Montgomery for employing it but you'd think that this would be at least heard of before 1942 given that Napoleon was one of the best generals of all time who was well known for inspiring great loyalty, and acts of bravery, in his soldiers.
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Daniel
A very Honest appraisal of Auchinleck but the most telling part of the Narrative was the excerpt from the Diary of a young Subaltern commenting on the new breeze of optimism. Monty had the ' gift of the gab'. He was Irish after all and although slow methodical and ponderous were his criticisms he was a chancer who would attack any opportunity He did bring a new impetus to the Desert Army through personality and on the back of a huge amount of materiel from America!
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A very Honest appraisal of Auchinleck but the most telling part of the Narrative was the excerpt from the Diary of a young Subaltern commenting on the new breeze of optimism. Monty had the ' gift of the gab'. He was Irish after all and although slow methodical and ponderous were his criticisms he was a chancer who would attack any opportunity He did bring a new impetus to the Desert Army through personality and on the back of a huge amount of materiel from America!
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waz
This is a ghastly British chest beating documentary - much in the same vein it accuses Montgomery of being. Which is ironic. It dreadfully overlooks the key contributions of Commonwealth units In the Second Battle of El Alamein, Australian and New Zealand divisions played a crucial and decisive role in this battle. But of course, as always, its a case of the British did this and the British did that.
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This is a ghastly British chest beating documentary - much in the same vein it accuses Montgomery of being. Which is ironic. It dreadfully overlooks the key contributions of Commonwealth units In the Second Battle of El Alamein, Australian and New Zealand divisions played a crucial and decisive role in this battle. But of course, as always, its a case of the British did this and the British did that.
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leigh
Montgomery had much more confidence, vision and connection with those under his command, that is why he was the right choice at the right time. Was he liked by the men? - not necessarily! but then a good commander is not there to win a popularity contest he is there because he is doing his duty and he is reminding those under his command of their duty to.
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Montgomery had much more confidence, vision and connection with those under his command, that is why he was the right choice at the right time. Was he liked by the men? - not necessarily! but then a good commander is not there to win a popularity contest he is there because he is doing his duty and he is reminding those under his command of their duty to.
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TheKeithvidz
I wonder if the Desert Fox was better served giving up alot of land, pulling far back to shorten supply lines. Let Bernard build up - the KEY is letting the 8th army come meet him. No El Alamein, its open ground to employ sweeping flank and rear attacks. Germany worked best in MANEUVER, badly in frontal attacks as Kursk demonstrated.
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I wonder if the Desert Fox was better served giving up alot of land, pulling far back to shorten supply lines. Let Bernard build up - the KEY is letting the 8th army come meet him. No El Alamein, its open ground to employ sweeping flank and rear attacks. Germany worked best in MANEUVER, badly in frontal attacks as Kursk demonstrated.
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Aaron
In my view, Montgomery was a self promoting glory hound. As described in his youth, a bully of people politically weaker than he. Auchinleck laid the defense of Egypt and little Monte took credit. His political whining even caused problems for Patton. Blood and Guts had Bradley, and brought victories where Monty didnt and couldnt.
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In my view, Montgomery was a self promoting glory hound. As described in his youth, a bully of people politically weaker than he. Auchinleck laid the defense of Egypt and little Monte took credit. His political whining even caused problems for Patton. Blood and Guts had Bradley, and brought victories where Monty didnt and couldnt.
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spoddie
What I most appreciate about this documentary is that the Commonwealth troops are named, Australian, New Zealand, South Africa, India. So many times British history ignores the huge contribution made by these countries that didn't have to be there. During these battles Australia was being threatened by Japan.
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What I most appreciate about this documentary is that the Commonwealth troops are named, Australian, New Zealand, South Africa, India. So many times British history ignores the huge contribution made by these countries that didn't have to be there. During these battles Australia was being threatened by Japan.
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Redbeardian
Under Auk the British 8th army was pushed back almost to the Nile before finally stopping an under supplied overrated few German divisions, commanded by a fairly reckless general, at an easily defensible choke point. Their achievements speak for themselves without exaggerations from Montgomery.
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Under Auk the British 8th army was pushed back almost to the Nile before finally stopping an under supplied overrated few German divisions, commanded by a fairly reckless general, at an easily defensible choke point. Their achievements speak for themselves without exaggerations from Montgomery.
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Frederick
You guys think that fighting any war is like a war games in military academies. The fog of war is the perfect description. generals politicians have the responsibility of taking the rap whatever the end result. Its not like a computer game like chess. Very unrealistic minds here.
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You guys think that fighting any war is like a war games in military academies. The fog of war is the perfect description. generals politicians have the responsibility of taking the rap whatever the end result. Its not like a computer game like chess. Very unrealistic minds here.
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Rob
Montgomery was an incompetent fool who rode the coattails of his victory against a depleted Rommel through a series of later defeats, ultimately ending in the debacle of Operation Market Garden. How he is regarded as one of Britain's greatest military leaders is beyond me.
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Montgomery was an incompetent fool who rode the coattails of his victory against a depleted Rommel through a series of later defeats, ultimately ending in the debacle of Operation Market Garden. How he is regarded as one of Britain's greatest military leaders is beyond me.
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Cameron
Montgomery was just another useless donkey, that sent thousands to die for his fame.
Please remember it was the brave men who sacrificed their lives for our peace and freedom.
26th February 1943: 155th Battery RA and Hampshires hold 10th Panzer at Sidi Nsir
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Montgomery was just another useless donkey, that sent thousands to die for his fame.
Please remember it was the brave men who sacrificed their lives for our peace and freedom.
26th February 1943: 155th Battery RA and Hampshires hold 10th Panzer at Sidi Nsir
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GYT
This documentary is more like a british desert generals rather than desert generals. Italians are mentioned nowhere in this documentary significantly when the fact is that they formed majority of the axis forces in desert war.
Quantity over quality won the battle
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This documentary is more like a british desert generals rather than desert generals. Italians are mentioned nowhere in this documentary significantly when the fact is that they formed majority of the axis forces in desert war.
Quantity over quality won the battle
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education
Monty was a WW1 general with limited intellect, He spent blood
to assure a victory. The brits had broke the German codes
and knew of Rommel's moves. Yet under poor leadership failed
to take advantage of German troops lack of supplies.
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Monty was a WW1 general with limited intellect, He spent blood
to assure a victory. The brits had broke the German codes
and knew of Rommel's moves. Yet under poor leadership failed
to take advantage of German troops lack of supplies.
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Mark
Wow if I had total air superiority, and was fully supplied, and had constant reinforcements, and allies attacking from the other side. I might beat a way more superior general like Rommel also! Montey was a joke in so many ways, look into it.
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Wow if I had total air superiority, and was fully supplied, and had constant reinforcements, and allies attacking from the other side. I might beat a way more superior general like Rommel also! Montey was a joke in so many ways, look into it.
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Stannous
I don't know if it was Tony Blair or GW Bush he was quoting at the beginning but considering that there is still no peace, much less freedom there 16 years and several million deaths later makes the words ring pretty hollow.
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I don't know if it was Tony Blair or GW Bush he was quoting at the beginning but considering that there is still no peace, much less freedom there 16 years and several million deaths later makes the words ring pretty hollow.
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