Why Audiences Are Split On The Last Jedi
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And Holdo and Rose were TERRIBLE characters. Holdo was a stuck up, egocentric, unprofessional commander that wouldn't even trust Poe (the man responsible for destroying star killer base) to hear her plan. SHE is the reason for many of the characters problems! Yet they act like she's a heroic protagonist. Why did Rose stop Finn from sacrificing himself for the resistance (by ramming into him with her speeder) and then deliver a completely contradictory line? SHE could have killed Finn and his death would have been for nothing! And then she kisses him without his permission? If rose were a guy that randomly kissed Rey, with no prior chemistry, no one would take it well. Terrible characters in my opinion. Plot holes that go beyond just this movie. I also think they spent too much time with Luke refusing to train Rey.
TLJ also introduces a lot of continuity problems. In the novel, Rey was trained by stealing knowledge straight from Kylo Ren's mind. Why couldn't Jedi of the past do this? Why does anyone need to train? It's lazy how the create these problems and then sloppily try to patch them up in the novelization. Jedi can steal knowledge from others through the force, so no one ever needed to train? Lightspeed ramming is a thing now that was underutilized in the past? Tracking ships through lightspeed is a thing (that definitely won't lead to writing issues later on. Luke Skywalker, the man who wouldn't give up on his father, even after he loses his hand to Vader, gives up easily on his own nephew? Force projections are a thing that probably would've been useful to Jedi in the past. The issues with this movie spills into the others.
Lastly, the movie leaves me with no interest to find out what happens next. Kylo Ren has already been beaten by Rey before when she know nothing, and she saved his life in Snoke's throne room, so he's not a very threatening villain. They killed off the only threatening villain, Snoke. The Knights of Ren are still nowhere to be found and haven't been set up. They should've used TLJ to introduce them so they can have more of an impact on the next movie. And there is no tension because Rey already bests everyone she meets.
Date: 2020-07-14
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Comments and reviews: 9
CaptainSlasher
While The Force Awakens was criticized for basically being a retreat of A New Hope, many fans have praised The Last Jedi for being something new in the Star Wars saga. Wrong.
-Both the Last Jedi and The Empire Strikes back, we follow our heroes on a single ship, on the run through space from the Empire/First Order most powerful capital ship.
-Meanwhile, Luke/Rey are off remote planets, learning the ways of the Force from a Jedi Masters who are pretty cagey about taking on new pupils at first.
-Both Luke and Rey are beckoned by the Dark Side to seek out shadowy caverns, only to be horrified by what they find they're in.
-After brief periods of training, they both leave to rejoin the larger fight after experiencing Force induced visions.
-Our subplots take us far away, exotic locales--Cloud City on Bespin and the casinos on Canto Bight--full of smooth talking shysters--Lando Calrissian and the Master Codebreaker (and even D. J. to a certain extent)--where are only heroes manage to escape because their droids save them.
-Luke/Rey confront Darth Vader/Kylo Ren respectively. We even get a callback to Return of the Jedi in the turbolift in Snoke's throne room where Rey implores Kylo Ren to turn back to the Light just as Luke did to his farther decades earlier.
-Then there's the big. After all is said and done, Darth Vader/Kylo Ren offer Luke/Rey the chance to rule the galaxy by their sides. They also reveal huge secrets about both character's parentage.
-While Rey doesn't get dismembered, both scenes pretty much end up the same way as both Luke and Rey refuse to join and rule the galaxy. By the end of the film, are heroes our, changed, and barely holding on, but they're ready to keep fighting and hopeful for the future.
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While The Force Awakens was criticized for basically being a retreat of A New Hope, many fans have praised The Last Jedi for being something new in the Star Wars saga. Wrong.
-Both the Last Jedi and The Empire Strikes back, we follow our heroes on a single ship, on the run through space from the Empire/First Order most powerful capital ship.
-Meanwhile, Luke/Rey are off remote planets, learning the ways of the Force from a Jedi Masters who are pretty cagey about taking on new pupils at first.
-Both Luke and Rey are beckoned by the Dark Side to seek out shadowy caverns, only to be horrified by what they find they're in.
-After brief periods of training, they both leave to rejoin the larger fight after experiencing Force induced visions.
-Our subplots take us far away, exotic locales--Cloud City on Bespin and the casinos on Canto Bight--full of smooth talking shysters--Lando Calrissian and the Master Codebreaker (and even D. J. to a certain extent)--where are only heroes manage to escape because their droids save them.
-Luke/Rey confront Darth Vader/Kylo Ren respectively. We even get a callback to Return of the Jedi in the turbolift in Snoke's throne room where Rey implores Kylo Ren to turn back to the Light just as Luke did to his farther decades earlier.
-Then there's the big. After all is said and done, Darth Vader/Kylo Ren offer Luke/Rey the chance to rule the galaxy by their sides. They also reveal huge secrets about both character's parentage.
-While Rey doesn't get dismembered, both scenes pretty much end up the same way as both Luke and Rey refuse to join and rule the galaxy. By the end of the film, are heroes our, changed, and barely holding on, but they're ready to keep fighting and hopeful for the future.
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rochey1010
That's why i think this film is dividing the fanbase because expectations weren't fulfilled but twisted upside down, and that breaks the pedestal that a chunk of fans put their theories on. It's reached the point with social media that a chunk of fans think if they push for it hard enough they can write the scripts. If they don't get what they want they tear up social media with embarrassing cyber bullying and strong arming - everything from vicious insults to outright death threats. And then to top it all off trying to say laughable shit like the prequels are better is simply hilarious. The prequels are still abysmal and are taught in lectures in film schools as a guide on how not to make a movie. Attacking 'Last Jedi' simply won't change that.
I honestly think Disney are right here and a chunk of fans are raging because Disney didn't give them their expectations, won't let them dictate how the trilogy should go and write them off as childish and toxic. I share that view. I remember the heated talk about Snoke being Plageious and Rey being super important characters love child. In the movie Snoke isn't important and is taken out by Ren, and Rey isn't a legacy character's child, and people went mental attacking the critics, other fans, Disney, Johnson etc. I find it embarrassing tbh that a chunk of fans are acting so self entitled because they have easier access these days to the powers that be. They think they can run the asylum. Fandom has become so toxic ugh.
reply
That's why i think this film is dividing the fanbase because expectations weren't fulfilled but twisted upside down, and that breaks the pedestal that a chunk of fans put their theories on. It's reached the point with social media that a chunk of fans think if they push for it hard enough they can write the scripts. If they don't get what they want they tear up social media with embarrassing cyber bullying and strong arming - everything from vicious insults to outright death threats. And then to top it all off trying to say laughable shit like the prequels are better is simply hilarious. The prequels are still abysmal and are taught in lectures in film schools as a guide on how not to make a movie. Attacking 'Last Jedi' simply won't change that.
I honestly think Disney are right here and a chunk of fans are raging because Disney didn't give them their expectations, won't let them dictate how the trilogy should go and write them off as childish and toxic. I share that view. I remember the heated talk about Snoke being Plageious and Rey being super important characters love child. In the movie Snoke isn't important and is taken out by Ren, and Rey isn't a legacy character's child, and people went mental attacking the critics, other fans, Disney, Johnson etc. I find it embarrassing tbh that a chunk of fans are acting so self entitled because they have easier access these days to the powers that be. They think they can run the asylum. Fandom has become so toxic ugh.
reply
Vlad
One thing about the Force that until now Star Wars had done a beautiful job with is not making it seem like an Ex Machina. Even if the force was a guiding omniscient presence it never was enough to solve all problems. Luke and Anakin even though they were chosen ones and had more talent then anyone still had to train and learn to live up to the expectations, the force showed them the way but it was up to their own strength to walk that path. Hell, being a Force User didn't meant you were invulnerable, forceless bounty hunters and even droid could kill you if they got lucky or were just that good, e. g Jango Fett and Grievous.
This new trilogy completely breaks that rule. Rey has no training or experience of any kind and yet she still succeeds in anything because of the Force. So in this context the Force truly is an Ex Machina that solves all the problems with no additional explanation needed.
reply
One thing about the Force that until now Star Wars had done a beautiful job with is not making it seem like an Ex Machina. Even if the force was a guiding omniscient presence it never was enough to solve all problems. Luke and Anakin even though they were chosen ones and had more talent then anyone still had to train and learn to live up to the expectations, the force showed them the way but it was up to their own strength to walk that path. Hell, being a Force User didn't meant you were invulnerable, forceless bounty hunters and even droid could kill you if they got lucky or were just that good, e. g Jango Fett and Grievous.
This new trilogy completely breaks that rule. Rey has no training or experience of any kind and yet she still succeeds in anything because of the Force. So in this context the Force truly is an Ex Machina that solves all the problems with no additional explanation needed.
reply
rabbit
3/10
+3 for being starwar
-1 for making Luke look like a Hermit for absolute no reason
-1 for making carrie fisher last scene as unforgiving and ridiculous
-1 for having Rose and making her looking like a buffoon, with a complete chapter on the Casino World a waste of time,
-1 for making the Star war physics obsolete, if crashing spaceship works then they could have crashed and hyper jump in to a death star
-1 for not even knowing the theory and story behind the Force, hello? did Luke even taught her how to fight? If she can self taught then she don't need to find Luke at the first place. it is not super power for god sake.
-1 Space ship running in space for weeks? if the empire who has 3 ship can't hyper space and create a blockade. doesn't make sense.
-1 Luke is a survivor okay i got it milking space seal? you are just wasting my time
reply
3/10
+3 for being starwar
-1 for making Luke look like a Hermit for absolute no reason
-1 for making carrie fisher last scene as unforgiving and ridiculous
-1 for having Rose and making her looking like a buffoon, with a complete chapter on the Casino World a waste of time,
-1 for making the Star war physics obsolete, if crashing spaceship works then they could have crashed and hyper jump in to a death star
-1 for not even knowing the theory and story behind the Force, hello? did Luke even taught her how to fight? If she can self taught then she don't need to find Luke at the first place. it is not super power for god sake.
-1 Space ship running in space for weeks? if the empire who has 3 ship can't hyper space and create a blockade. doesn't make sense.
-1 Luke is a survivor okay i got it milking space seal? you are just wasting my time
reply
Michael
Only good and worthwhile scene in the movie was with Yoda and Luke. Mark did a great job delivering what the horrible Producer wanted. I don't have any problems with the acting. What I have a challenge with is how the horrible producer wrecked the character of Luke. I 100% agree with Mark, that make it a crappy movie. That and the misuse of Asteral Traveling and Self-Projection at the end. LAME, Lame, lameeeee. I'm done with the franchise. Disney owns it now. and it's complete wrecked compaired to what George Lucas created. I am fine with new characters, but not with how. This Producer did it. Should have gone with J. J. 's ideas at least has respect for Sagas. Anyway, it was cool while it lasted. I still love R2-D2! Okay, that's the 2nd best Scene of the movie. Bye, Star Wars. I won't be seeing anymore. I don't really need backstories either.
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Only good and worthwhile scene in the movie was with Yoda and Luke. Mark did a great job delivering what the horrible Producer wanted. I don't have any problems with the acting. What I have a challenge with is how the horrible producer wrecked the character of Luke. I 100% agree with Mark, that make it a crappy movie. That and the misuse of Asteral Traveling and Self-Projection at the end. LAME, Lame, lameeeee. I'm done with the franchise. Disney owns it now. and it's complete wrecked compaired to what George Lucas created. I am fine with new characters, but not with how. This Producer did it. Should have gone with J. J. 's ideas at least has respect for Sagas. Anyway, it was cool while it lasted. I still love R2-D2! Okay, that's the 2nd best Scene of the movie. Bye, Star Wars. I won't be seeing anymore. I don't really need backstories either.
reply
ArtsyGamer
Its easy to say that the last Jedi was one of the best movies ever created in the franchise. (In my opinion)
Kylo Ren and Reys connection are what make the story different, the compassion between two completely different sides of the force. The movie quality- everything about it I LOVED.
Accept Rose and fins journey to cantobite, which was the only part of the movie I was actually okay with going to the bathroom during. I was bored to TEARS during this, and wished they could have used it on something more worthwhile, like Lukes promised 3rd lesson to Rey.
I also despised roses character as a whole, and not because I ship Finn and Rey, (I dont anyways. I honestly think the acting was low quality on her behalf, and that the character was honestly forgettable.
reply
Its easy to say that the last Jedi was one of the best movies ever created in the franchise. (In my opinion)
Kylo Ren and Reys connection are what make the story different, the compassion between two completely different sides of the force. The movie quality- everything about it I LOVED.
Accept Rose and fins journey to cantobite, which was the only part of the movie I was actually okay with going to the bathroom during. I was bored to TEARS during this, and wished they could have used it on something more worthwhile, like Lukes promised 3rd lesson to Rey.
I also despised roses character as a whole, and not because I ship Finn and Rey, (I dont anyways. I honestly think the acting was low quality on her behalf, and that the character was honestly forgettable.
reply
BRENT
Here's my idea for the next trilogy to answer the problems people have with Rey. The new Jedi trainee will start out taking 23 and Me to establish all the previous characters they're related to, thus explaining why they're strong with the force. However, they will spend the entirety of the trilogy in training, getting better at using it verrrrrrrrrrry slowwwwwwwwwwly, with lots of setbecks. Finally, in the last five minutes of the third movie, they'll hold a lightsaber for the first time, then accidentally decapitate themself, ultimately accomplishing nothing. And then people will still claim that character is a Mary Sue.
reply
Here's my idea for the next trilogy to answer the problems people have with Rey. The new Jedi trainee will start out taking 23 and Me to establish all the previous characters they're related to, thus explaining why they're strong with the force. However, they will spend the entirety of the trilogy in training, getting better at using it verrrrrrrrrrry slowwwwwwwwwwly, with lots of setbecks. Finally, in the last five minutes of the third movie, they'll hold a lightsaber for the first time, then accidentally decapitate themself, ultimately accomplishing nothing. And then people will still claim that character is a Mary Sue.
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N7Mith
Each and every character in the entire movie are terribly written, except maybe Kylo Ren. But because Kylo's plot draws so heavily on Jake Skywalker's actions, even he is bad. Finn is a black stereotype used for comedic relief, Rose is written like a character who doesn't belong in Star Wars (and she doesn't, Luke has somehow changed from Luke to Jake which is never adequately explained, Leia Poppins, Vice Admiral Genderstudies crashing down (both literally and figuratively) on the white male patriarchy, and Rey is a Mary Sue.
And the Force has been promoted to a Marvel Superpower which it is not supposed to be.
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Each and every character in the entire movie are terribly written, except maybe Kylo Ren. But because Kylo's plot draws so heavily on Jake Skywalker's actions, even he is bad. Finn is a black stereotype used for comedic relief, Rose is written like a character who doesn't belong in Star Wars (and she doesn't, Luke has somehow changed from Luke to Jake which is never adequately explained, Leia Poppins, Vice Admiral Genderstudies crashing down (both literally and figuratively) on the white male patriarchy, and Rey is a Mary Sue.
And the Force has been promoted to a Marvel Superpower which it is not supposed to be.
reply
TheErsu
I have always liked the second movie in a Star Wars trilogy more than the first. Until The Last Jedi. The Force Awakens was a rehash of A New Hope. But it did set up some points of interest for the next film. Rian Johnson threw all of that away. Snoke was a mysterious force user who revived a fallen empire. Why wouldn't I want to know more about him? The porgs feel like vegan propaganda. Rose was fine until she stopped Finn from sacrificing himself. Just another disappointing Disney's Star Wars movie. I can't believe they passed on the Legends Canon for this.
reply
I have always liked the second movie in a Star Wars trilogy more than the first. Until The Last Jedi. The Force Awakens was a rehash of A New Hope. But it did set up some points of interest for the next film. Rian Johnson threw all of that away. Snoke was a mysterious force user who revived a fallen empire. Why wouldn't I want to know more about him? The porgs feel like vegan propaganda. Rose was fine until she stopped Finn from sacrificing himself. Just another disappointing Disney's Star Wars movie. I can't believe they passed on the Legends Canon for this.
reply
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