The hated exploit some developers actually want you to use
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Date: 2023-12-10
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Comments and reviews: 30
-Phlebas
I save scum in most games. Lately I've been playing a lot of Civilization 6 and I keep multiple saves for any single game - one for every era, one for when I'm preparing for war, (or notice a neighbouring Civ's army hanging out at my border) one for when I actually declare war, etc. I don't really feel bad about this sort of gameplay. I go in with the attitude that every game is winnable and it's just a matter of figuring out how to win it.
I have one exception, though - Civ 6 has a victory condition that is extremely easy to meet if you save scum and that's the diplomatic victory. Basic mechanic is that a -World Congress- event pops up every few turns, you expend diplomatic favour to vote on resolutions, and winning a resolution gets you a diplomatic victory point. Get twenty diplomatic victory points and you win. The thing is, though, you don't actually need a lot of diplomatic favour to win a vote; all you have to do is vote for the winning resolution and you can save scum to see _exactly_ how you should vote to guarantee that diplomatic victory point (the AI is also fairly predictable so even without save scumming, you have a good idea of how a vote will go. So the upshot is, you can reliably win a diplomatic victory somewhere between the late industrial or early atomic era even if your whole game has been spent terrorizing the world with your Mongol horde. as long as you save scum. It was fun for a bit, but it also ends the game too early, and it's pretty much impossible to get a scientific or cultural victory before the diplomatic victory kicks in (in my experience, playing on online speed is the only way to get a scientific victory if you're save scumming the world congress vote.
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I save scum in most games. Lately I've been playing a lot of Civilization 6 and I keep multiple saves for any single game - one for every era, one for when I'm preparing for war, (or notice a neighbouring Civ's army hanging out at my border) one for when I actually declare war, etc. I don't really feel bad about this sort of gameplay. I go in with the attitude that every game is winnable and it's just a matter of figuring out how to win it.
I have one exception, though - Civ 6 has a victory condition that is extremely easy to meet if you save scum and that's the diplomatic victory. Basic mechanic is that a -World Congress- event pops up every few turns, you expend diplomatic favour to vote on resolutions, and winning a resolution gets you a diplomatic victory point. Get twenty diplomatic victory points and you win. The thing is, though, you don't actually need a lot of diplomatic favour to win a vote; all you have to do is vote for the winning resolution and you can save scum to see _exactly_ how you should vote to guarantee that diplomatic victory point (the AI is also fairly predictable so even without save scumming, you have a good idea of how a vote will go. So the upshot is, you can reliably win a diplomatic victory somewhere between the late industrial or early atomic era even if your whole game has been spent terrorizing the world with your Mongol horde. as long as you save scum. It was fun for a bit, but it also ends the game too early, and it's pretty much impossible to get a scientific or cultural victory before the diplomatic victory kicks in (in my experience, playing on online speed is the only way to get a scientific victory if you're save scumming the world congress vote.
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-sadpee7710
some of my best memories of xcom 2 are of save scumming over and over to beat an insurmountable challenge, treating it almost like a puzzle. it's the sensation of overcoming the impossible, not accepting defeat and that no game is ever unwinnable. hard work paying off - it's the best way to discover new tactics and strategies because if you're forced to save scum in order to stand a chance you -have to- search for different solutions and approaches.
same thing with total war. beating an army of 12 000 strong soldiers with a weak 4000 is impossible on paper. but if you try long enough you can find a solution.
-save scumming is at it's best when it's used as a way to take on more challenge rather than to avoid it. - which isn't to say that save scumming is bad but that it gets a bad rep for being cowardly while encompassing the exact opposite. in such cases the people who don't save scum play more cowardly than those who do, as they're the ones backing down from a challenge that just defeated them. or straight up avoid missions etc. that are likely to fail. in this way save scumming actually unlocks whatever may be holding you back from taking a risk. ironic as save scumming has the exact opposite reputation as something that avoids risk.
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some of my best memories of xcom 2 are of save scumming over and over to beat an insurmountable challenge, treating it almost like a puzzle. it's the sensation of overcoming the impossible, not accepting defeat and that no game is ever unwinnable. hard work paying off - it's the best way to discover new tactics and strategies because if you're forced to save scum in order to stand a chance you -have to- search for different solutions and approaches.
same thing with total war. beating an army of 12 000 strong soldiers with a weak 4000 is impossible on paper. but if you try long enough you can find a solution.
-save scumming is at it's best when it's used as a way to take on more challenge rather than to avoid it. - which isn't to say that save scumming is bad but that it gets a bad rep for being cowardly while encompassing the exact opposite. in such cases the people who don't save scum play more cowardly than those who do, as they're the ones backing down from a challenge that just defeated them. or straight up avoid missions etc. that are likely to fail. in this way save scumming actually unlocks whatever may be holding you back from taking a risk. ironic as save scumming has the exact opposite reputation as something that avoids risk.
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polygon
In DDLC, if you want a special, -best- ending, you must save scum (In ACT 1, save on or right before first poem, write poem for either Sayori, Natsuki or Yuri, collect CGs for each girl)
If you do Sayori before the other two, you must stop after the Sayori hugging protagonist CG and reload back to first poem, then add another save file. It doesn't matter if you hang out with Natsuki or Yuri in the Sayori route.
For both the Natsuki and Yuri routes, you must hang out with them on their respective routes, and wait til they leave after Sayori enters the scene to talk to you.
For the Sayori and final route (which would pertain to Yuri, usually), you must say that you love Sayori.
After that, you can actually advance through the game.
(Keep in mind that you must go through the entire ACT 3 to see Just Monika CG. Once the text box disappears, delete Monika character file)
Then advance until the end.
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In DDLC, if you want a special, -best- ending, you must save scum (In ACT 1, save on or right before first poem, write poem for either Sayori, Natsuki or Yuri, collect CGs for each girl)
If you do Sayori before the other two, you must stop after the Sayori hugging protagonist CG and reload back to first poem, then add another save file. It doesn't matter if you hang out with Natsuki or Yuri in the Sayori route.
For both the Natsuki and Yuri routes, you must hang out with them on their respective routes, and wait til they leave after Sayori enters the scene to talk to you.
For the Sayori and final route (which would pertain to Yuri, usually), you must say that you love Sayori.
After that, you can actually advance through the game.
(Keep in mind that you must go through the entire ACT 3 to see Just Monika CG. Once the text box disappears, delete Monika character file)
Then advance until the end.
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-jai_morris
XCOM 2 is a masterpiece because of how they designed the game. It appeases to all sides of the spectrum and as a fellow save scummer I actually liked what they did with the fixed variables and forcing players to rethink their strategy and approach the fight in a different way. The feature taught me a lot about how to play tactical games and instead of just reloading and doing the exact same thing again, I could learn from my mistakes and in the future be prepared for when that moment arrives. A win-win for people who don't want to lose progress, but also a neat idea to avoid abusing the system. On a side note, XCOM 2 is also great because it has a mix of good strategy and gameplay which makes it the ultimate XCOM game in a sense.
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XCOM 2 is a masterpiece because of how they designed the game. It appeases to all sides of the spectrum and as a fellow save scummer I actually liked what they did with the fixed variables and forcing players to rethink their strategy and approach the fight in a different way. The feature taught me a lot about how to play tactical games and instead of just reloading and doing the exact same thing again, I could learn from my mistakes and in the future be prepared for when that moment arrives. A win-win for people who don't want to lose progress, but also a neat idea to avoid abusing the system. On a side note, XCOM 2 is also great because it has a mix of good strategy and gameplay which makes it the ultimate XCOM game in a sense.
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-pandemonium2536
I'll be honest. Save-Scumming is the only way I can make it through certain games, Xcom 2 being an example. I love the game, but with the amount of rng and how fast it throws everything at you it's basically a dead run if you lose all your best soldiers on a mission, I'll happily save between missions or even during them. I'm sorry but my perfect battle plan set up to allow me to ambush the enemies doesn't get to be completely undone by all 4 of my maxed out soldiers somehow missing.
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I'll be honest. Save-Scumming is the only way I can make it through certain games, Xcom 2 being an example. I love the game, but with the amount of rng and how fast it throws everything at you it's basically a dead run if you lose all your best soldiers on a mission, I'll happily save between missions or even during them. I'm sorry but my perfect battle plan set up to allow me to ambush the enemies doesn't get to be completely undone by all 4 of my maxed out soldiers somehow missing.
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-Pseud0nymTXT
I quite like Kingdom come: deliverance's system, there are autosaves and you save when you sleep but you can also use saviour schnapps to save whenever you want but you're slightly drunk afterwards, and it is expensive. I really dislike the Ironman mode, especially in paradox games, as it locks achievements behind it and I've nearly had games ruined because I misclicked, or misread an event, realised seconds afterwards before it had any effects, but the game had already autosaved.
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I quite like Kingdom come: deliverance's system, there are autosaves and you save when you sleep but you can also use saviour schnapps to save whenever you want but you're slightly drunk afterwards, and it is expensive. I really dislike the Ironman mode, especially in paradox games, as it locks achievements behind it and I've nearly had games ruined because I misclicked, or misread an event, realised seconds afterwards before it had any effects, but the game had already autosaved.
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-eldonhill4840
It's funny how games like Life Is Strange actually riff on save scumming as a game mechanic. Also of note is how The Witcher 3 actively tries to defeat it by punishing you with non-apparent story consequences sometimes hours down the line. Or how Disco Elysium (and to a lesser degree, Pathologic 2) discourage savescumming by making your failures at least as interesting as your successes. Both much better than save points that punish players with sheer tedium.
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It's funny how games like Life Is Strange actually riff on save scumming as a game mechanic. Also of note is how The Witcher 3 actively tries to defeat it by punishing you with non-apparent story consequences sometimes hours down the line. Or how Disco Elysium (and to a lesser degree, Pathologic 2) discourage savescumming by making your failures at least as interesting as your successes. Both much better than save points that punish players with sheer tedium.
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-AbsolXGuardian
5: 47 Hilarious that you used 3 Houses as an example of a roll with the consequences game, when it's the Fire Emblem fates game where you can basically save scum within a turn without having to save. You can't back out of the critical hit that took out a unit, but if you realize after they took their action that it wasn't the best position to leave them in, you can roll back the clock within your turn a limited number of times each battle.
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5: 47 Hilarious that you used 3 Houses as an example of a roll with the consequences game, when it's the Fire Emblem fates game where you can basically save scum within a turn without having to save. You can't back out of the critical hit that took out a unit, but if you realize after they took their action that it wasn't the best position to leave them in, you can roll back the clock within your turn a limited number of times each battle.
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-fnord3125
if anyone who sees this has any interest at all in Interactive Fiction games (aka -Text Adventures-) I highly, HIGHLY, recommend looking up a free, IF game called Slouching Towards Bedlam. The fact that I'm mentioning this game in the comments of this video is a -bit- of a spoiler, but I won't say any more except that the game is really really excellent, IMO. And again, it's free, can be played on the web, and is pretty short. Check it out.
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if anyone who sees this has any interest at all in Interactive Fiction games (aka -Text Adventures-) I highly, HIGHLY, recommend looking up a free, IF game called Slouching Towards Bedlam. The fact that I'm mentioning this game in the comments of this video is a -bit- of a spoiler, but I won't say any more except that the game is really really excellent, IMO. And again, it's free, can be played on the web, and is pretty short. Check it out.
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-AndresFnt
I absolutely hate Desparados. Being able to save often and load often ruins the difficulty of the game because once you do eventually win (and you WILL eventually win) it won't feel rewarding because you didn't earn that win. Suffering through a buncha load screens and trial and error gameplay is no longer a game but a job. Rouge-like games such as Spelunky are the best kind of games cause they force you to learn the mechanics and get good.
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I absolutely hate Desparados. Being able to save often and load often ruins the difficulty of the game because once you do eventually win (and you WILL eventually win) it won't feel rewarding because you didn't earn that win. Suffering through a buncha load screens and trial and error gameplay is no longer a game but a job. Rouge-like games such as Spelunky are the best kind of games cause they force you to learn the mechanics and get good.
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-LordZonar
I always appreciate how darkest dungeon does permadeath well as it gives you many chances before a character actually dies.
You're encouraged to keep them alive with various sources of healing, given a second chance with death's door and virtuous, and only then do they die if the luck really really really isn't in your favor.
Or you run into a cartel of spiders and your vestal dies instantly.
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I always appreciate how darkest dungeon does permadeath well as it gives you many chances before a character actually dies.
You're encouraged to keep them alive with various sources of healing, given a second chance with death's door and virtuous, and only then do they die if the luck really really really isn't in your favor.
Or you run into a cartel of spiders and your vestal dies instantly.
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-drakkenmensch
I've noticed that Bethesda games do something. WEIRD with their saves. When you reload a save, the game RESAVES on top of it with a fraction of a second past the point of the original save. This way if you save scum and keep reloading the same moment over and over, you will notice that a character walking away from you is a little further away with each subsequent reload of the same save file.
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I've noticed that Bethesda games do something. WEIRD with their saves. When you reload a save, the game RESAVES on top of it with a fraction of a second past the point of the original save. This way if you save scum and keep reloading the same moment over and over, you will notice that a character walking away from you is a little further away with each subsequent reload of the same save file.
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-axelory7676
I doubt any Srategy game would be fun for me without Save Scumming. If something horrible happens i always Save Scum just to see if there's anything else i could have done to save my Empire/Squad. I usually find that, no, the real mistake happened a dozen turns ago and i have no save of it, but at least i can minimise the damage and work to fix it.
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I doubt any Srategy game would be fun for me without Save Scumming. If something horrible happens i always Save Scum just to see if there's anything else i could have done to save my Empire/Squad. I usually find that, no, the real mistake happened a dozen turns ago and i have no save of it, but at least i can minimise the damage and work to fix it.
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-canolathra6865
In some cases, save scumming actually points out a flaw in a game, such as excessively limited items handed out by RNG from excessively limited sources (looking at you, Borderlands boss fights. Save scumming can sometimes be the only way to obtain build-defining items, and thus players do it because they have to for the build they are going for.
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In some cases, save scumming actually points out a flaw in a game, such as excessively limited items handed out by RNG from excessively limited sources (looking at you, Borderlands boss fights. Save scumming can sometimes be the only way to obtain build-defining items, and thus players do it because they have to for the build they are going for.
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-Disthron
Ok, as a PC gamer, saving was just a thing you could do basically anywhere at any time. I didn't even encounter the concept of -Save Scumming- until well into the 2010's and I'm pretty sure it was invented by butt-hurt console gamers who grew up with crippled save systems and wanted to justify it to themselves and generally be gatekeeping dicks.
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Ok, as a PC gamer, saving was just a thing you could do basically anywhere at any time. I didn't even encounter the concept of -Save Scumming- until well into the 2010's and I'm pretty sure it was invented by butt-hurt console gamers who grew up with crippled save systems and wanted to justify it to themselves and generally be gatekeeping dicks.
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-hockeyhacker97
9: 48. Yeah the way I see Ironman mode is -If you have the time and skill to do that awesome, go for it, but as for me I have limited time to play, me playing this single player game doesn't effect how someone else plays the same game and for me my limited time is more precious so I am not going to play ironman mode, thanks but no thanks. -
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9: 48. Yeah the way I see Ironman mode is -If you have the time and skill to do that awesome, go for it, but as for me I have limited time to play, me playing this single player game doesn't effect how someone else plays the same game and for me my limited time is more precious so I am not going to play ironman mode, thanks but no thanks. -
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-Jessie_Helms
Imo one of the only ways to get a Clean Hands, Ghost, Mostly Flesh and Steel run in Dishonored is save scumming.
Any one of those is difficult, but combining the 3 is insane.
I-ll never forget finishing mine on the top difficulty and watching all 3 achievements pop at the same time as the credits song played
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Imo one of the only ways to get a Clean Hands, Ghost, Mostly Flesh and Steel run in Dishonored is save scumming.
Any one of those is difficult, but combining the 3 is insane.
I-ll never forget finishing mine on the top difficulty and watching all 3 achievements pop at the same time as the credits song played
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-broshmosh
if I hadn't used save scumming in Divinity Original Sin 2 Director's Cut, I would have enjoyed the game a lot less, and bounced off it before completing any of the first act. I don't feel like my experience was cheapened by this, as I still had to engage situations with tactics and consequences in mind.
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if I hadn't used save scumming in Divinity Original Sin 2 Director's Cut, I would have enjoyed the game a lot less, and bounced off it before completing any of the first act. I don't feel like my experience was cheapened by this, as I still had to engage situations with tactics and consequences in mind.
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-sashaboydcom
This seems to miss one of the main reasons to prevent save scumming, which is that it makes the game repetitive. And if a game is playtested with people save scumming, the developers won't be getting feedback that helps them balance the game in a way that makes death or failure less frustrating.
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This seems to miss one of the main reasons to prevent save scumming, which is that it makes the game repetitive. And if a game is playtested with people save scumming, the developers won't be getting feedback that helps them balance the game in a way that makes death or failure less frustrating.
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-rearcangeli
I've been wanting quick save/load powers irl for so long now. even just when I do something like lose a pen or drop my phone or bend a book page, I wish I could just go -nope! - and quick load to thirty seconds earlier to Not Do That.
also, gives lots of extra time to play videogames
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I've been wanting quick save/load powers irl for so long now. even just when I do something like lose a pen or drop my phone or bend a book page, I wish I could just go -nope! - and quick load to thirty seconds earlier to Not Do That.
also, gives lots of extra time to play videogames
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-jjkthebest
The problem with xcom is that sometimes the game just throws so much wrenches at you that it can feel rather unfair. I always try iron man in these games, but end up starting a non-iron man run after the game throws a (seemingly) unwinnable situation in my face.
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The problem with xcom is that sometimes the game just throws so much wrenches at you that it can feel rather unfair. I always try iron man in these games, but end up starting a non-iron man run after the game throws a (seemingly) unwinnable situation in my face.
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-Hegataro
Mentioning Daggerfall; in Morrowind, savescumming is technically a canon power of the player character, since one of the characters (Vivec) directly mentions it - he refuses to fight you because he knows that you will just keep coming back until he dies
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Mentioning Daggerfall; in Morrowind, savescumming is technically a canon power of the player character, since one of the characters (Vivec) directly mentions it - he refuses to fight you because he knows that you will just keep coming back until he dies
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polygon
Played Xenonauts on a friends computer, only rule was no save scumming. All the soldiers were renamed after coworkers, it got real meta when Steve freaked out and shot the rest of the team, I was playing on Steve's computer.
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Played Xenonauts on a friends computer, only rule was no save scumming. All the soldiers were renamed after coworkers, it got real meta when Steve freaked out and shot the rest of the team, I was playing on Steve's computer.
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-animanya394
I was so shocked when i first learned that people consider saving -a scum- because i, not being inside gamer-culture, always thought saving was a pro-gamer move and i was playing game wrongly by not constantly saving.
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I was so shocked when i first learned that people consider saving -a scum- because i, not being inside gamer-culture, always thought saving was a pro-gamer move and i was playing game wrongly by not constantly saving.
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-hedgehog3180
I really like the approach of having extremely difficult games that save all the time. It puts the focus solely on overcoming the challenge while not being so punishing that you quit after some bad luck.
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I really like the approach of having extremely difficult games that save all the time. It puts the focus solely on overcoming the challenge while not being so punishing that you quit after some bad luck.
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-darkdrogod8890
No i disagree with xcom yes literally the best of the best. is a less then a grunt, wished u can remove the timers and always have little missions everywhere where to farm xp if main gets wiped -. ahhh
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No i disagree with xcom yes literally the best of the best. is a less then a grunt, wished u can remove the timers and always have little missions everywhere where to farm xp if main gets wiped -. ahhh
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-Ametisti
Xcom was something I save scummed in but I don't think too harshly. I always dropped a save at the beginning of the level, and sometimes made more sorta 'checkpoints' now and then if it was a longer level.
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Xcom was something I save scummed in but I don't think too harshly. I always dropped a save at the beginning of the level, and sometimes made more sorta 'checkpoints' now and then if it was a longer level.
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-immortalyark
I wouldn't savescum in XCOM 2 if they didn't have that ticking clock always counting down, I basically have to get my units promoted as quickly as possible to sprint to that finish line.
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I wouldn't savescum in XCOM 2 if they didn't have that ticking clock always counting down, I basically have to get my units promoted as quickly as possible to sprint to that finish line.
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-nicklarocco4178
The idea that you could feel like a tactical genius in x-com, a game with such famously bad RNG that missing on a 95% likelihood to hit was more likely than hitting, is laughable.
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The idea that you could feel like a tactical genius in x-com, a game with such famously bad RNG that missing on a 95% likelihood to hit was more likely than hitting, is laughable.
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-davekachel
Thats incredible funny because exactly these games made me realize that I despise save scumming. It sucked all the fun out from commandos, desperados, robin hood and shadow tactics.
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Thats incredible funny because exactly these games made me realize that I despise save scumming. It sucked all the fun out from commandos, desperados, robin hood and shadow tactics.
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