Tears of the Kingdom's new thing is actually pretty old
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Date: 2023-12-10
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Comments and reviews: 30
-scenenuf
What an intro.
At almost 30 now I am only just realizing that the majority of my most prized memories with games were from Immersive sims, I never really understood the difference between Immersive and RPG and generally went with -I prefer RPGs- when talking to friends about gaming. But now I come to think of it, it was always immersive sims.
Psy-Op's Mindgate Conspiracy (when Control came out, even though it's a 3rd person action game, the physics manipulation took me back to when I was 8 playing this for the first time)
GTA San Andrea's (kinda)
Deus Ex and the OG Hitman games were the only decent games my 2006 laptop could handle, so Deus Ex got like 20+ playthroughs, same with all Hitman games.
The Bioshock series
Mercenaries (sandbox mostly like GTA)
The Dishonored series
When I finally got around to PREY it became one of my all time cherished gaming experiences.
The Half Life series
The Elder Scrolls series
The Splinter Cell series (mainly Chao Theory)
The Metal Gear series
Gosh looking back at what I grew up playing I really need to be more grateful I was able to have those experiences honestly.
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What an intro.
At almost 30 now I am only just realizing that the majority of my most prized memories with games were from Immersive sims, I never really understood the difference between Immersive and RPG and generally went with -I prefer RPGs- when talking to friends about gaming. But now I come to think of it, it was always immersive sims.
Psy-Op's Mindgate Conspiracy (when Control came out, even though it's a 3rd person action game, the physics manipulation took me back to when I was 8 playing this for the first time)
GTA San Andrea's (kinda)
Deus Ex and the OG Hitman games were the only decent games my 2006 laptop could handle, so Deus Ex got like 20+ playthroughs, same with all Hitman games.
The Bioshock series
Mercenaries (sandbox mostly like GTA)
The Dishonored series
When I finally got around to PREY it became one of my all time cherished gaming experiences.
The Half Life series
The Elder Scrolls series
The Splinter Cell series (mainly Chao Theory)
The Metal Gear series
Gosh looking back at what I grew up playing I really need to be more grateful I was able to have those experiences honestly.
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-dylant8338
The problem I have with breaking boundaries or defying expectations in Zelda is with combat - it doesn-t feel like you-re properly rewarded. Every time I-ve tried to create an elaborate Zonai contraption, set up traps using the elements, or use recall/ultrahand to smack a monster - it-s hardly enough to disarm a Blue Bokoblin, let alone put a dent in any of the late game enemies. Things like the time bomb/bomb barrels, beam emitters, and heavyweight items are just always far less efficient than taking out your strongest weapon and beating down an enemy with it. I don-t want to break those boundaries because I spend 5 minutes preparing just to take away 100 or less HP
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The problem I have with breaking boundaries or defying expectations in Zelda is with combat - it doesn-t feel like you-re properly rewarded. Every time I-ve tried to create an elaborate Zonai contraption, set up traps using the elements, or use recall/ultrahand to smack a monster - it-s hardly enough to disarm a Blue Bokoblin, let alone put a dent in any of the late game enemies. Things like the time bomb/bomb barrels, beam emitters, and heavyweight items are just always far less efficient than taking out your strongest weapon and beating down an enemy with it. I don-t want to break those boundaries because I spend 5 minutes preparing just to take away 100 or less HP
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-EhurtAfy
Yes, I had played so many games and especially games like Dishonored (every game in series 100%, Far Cry 3, Tomb Raider that Breath of the Wild was a major letdown for me. Not to mention a lot of PC games like The Forest, Garry's Mod, Portal. BotW caused me to reconsider whether Zelda was actually my favorite game series or not. It felt like Zelda without the heart. Meanwhile Tears of the Kingdom feels so much better. You can see how rushed Breath of the Wild felt in comparison, they just didn't have the time to do everything they wanted to the first time around. Tears of the Kingdom is a very good game, a massive, iterative successor to Breath of the Wild
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Yes, I had played so many games and especially games like Dishonored (every game in series 100%, Far Cry 3, Tomb Raider that Breath of the Wild was a major letdown for me. Not to mention a lot of PC games like The Forest, Garry's Mod, Portal. BotW caused me to reconsider whether Zelda was actually my favorite game series or not. It felt like Zelda without the heart. Meanwhile Tears of the Kingdom feels so much better. You can see how rushed Breath of the Wild felt in comparison, they just didn't have the time to do everything they wanted to the first time around. Tears of the Kingdom is a very good game, a massive, iterative successor to Breath of the Wild
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-vyt2622
I don't think anyone would call Bugsnax an immersive sim, but the developers have talked about deliberately having elements of systemic gameplay. It's a creature collector, and there are always multiple ways of capturing any given bugsnack. The player has tools, but can also chain together combinations of tools and use the creatures own ai and behavior. There are even creature interactions that happen on their own without player input (like two -aggressive- types getting into a fight. I love it because it drives home the feeling of this being a full ecosystem with living beings, rather than a scavenger hunt.
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I don't think anyone would call Bugsnax an immersive sim, but the developers have talked about deliberately having elements of systemic gameplay. It's a creature collector, and there are always multiple ways of capturing any given bugsnack. The player has tools, but can also chain together combinations of tools and use the creatures own ai and behavior. There are even creature interactions that happen on their own without player input (like two -aggressive- types getting into a fight. I love it because it drives home the feeling of this being a full ecosystem with living beings, rather than a scavenger hunt.
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-TheClaraVita
6: 32 Recall-powered people-movers is MY FAVORITE THING TO DO. Combine them with rocket-shields, fans, and other gadgets, and it's a wildly fun and satisfying over-engineered solution. :D
Also, I picked up Sniper Ghost Warrior Contracts 2 for $12 on Steam the other day specifically because I thought it would be the same kinda game. It really isn't, which is disappointing; it's incredibly linear and there are exact loadouts and strategies to get through its missions. It's still fun in its own way, but not the immersive sim FPS I'm craving right now. D:
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6: 32 Recall-powered people-movers is MY FAVORITE THING TO DO. Combine them with rocket-shields, fans, and other gadgets, and it's a wildly fun and satisfying over-engineered solution. :D
Also, I picked up Sniper Ghost Warrior Contracts 2 for $12 on Steam the other day specifically because I thought it would be the same kinda game. It really isn't, which is disappointing; it's incredibly linear and there are exact loadouts and strategies to get through its missions. It's still fun in its own way, but not the immersive sim FPS I'm craving right now. D:
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-porky1118
9: 30 I think, the new Zelda format is a bit too open.
I'd prefer, if it was a bit more like metroidvania.
In the new Zelda format, after you got the para glider, you basically don't have to do any quests in order to achieve any quest, besides of a few directly connected quests. You can get every item you might need in any quest.
I'd like if there were riddles, which still have multiple solutions. So the riddles don't have to change a lot.
But there should be more abilities to unlock, which are required to solve a riddle.
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9: 30 I think, the new Zelda format is a bit too open.
I'd prefer, if it was a bit more like metroidvania.
In the new Zelda format, after you got the para glider, you basically don't have to do any quests in order to achieve any quest, besides of a few directly connected quests. You can get every item you might need in any quest.
I'd like if there were riddles, which still have multiple solutions. So the riddles don't have to change a lot.
But there should be more abilities to unlock, which are required to solve a riddle.
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-pawnzrtasty
I like breath of the wild more. It almost feels like I-m playing the same game. I rarely use any of the build stuff unless I have to like reach a couple sky islands. the fuse is cool. I played botw for hundreds of hours. I already know how to parry and dodge every enemy. There-s only a few new enemies and not even they provide a real challenge for me. The gleeoks are easily taken down with bullet time and a regular 3x lynel bow headshot. even bullet time is way easier now. Seems like botw was harder with more surprises.
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I like breath of the wild more. It almost feels like I-m playing the same game. I rarely use any of the build stuff unless I have to like reach a couple sky islands. the fuse is cool. I played botw for hundreds of hours. I already know how to parry and dodge every enemy. There-s only a few new enemies and not even they provide a real challenge for me. The gleeoks are easily taken down with bullet time and a regular 3x lynel bow headshot. even bullet time is way easier now. Seems like botw was harder with more surprises.
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polygon
in a lot of immersive sims, those interactions are also programmed. And that can make it harder, which is also why this can be a niche because with the same programming budget you have a lot more interactions. Plus you have to program them in a way that doesn't make them completely game breaking. Like in breath of the wild there's a video out there that shows all the ways you can reach the flying beast without any bird person help. But then once you reach it the unintended way, you discover you cannot land on it.
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in a lot of immersive sims, those interactions are also programmed. And that can make it harder, which is also why this can be a niche because with the same programming budget you have a lot more interactions. Plus you have to program them in a way that doesn't make them completely game breaking. Like in breath of the wild there's a video out there that shows all the ways you can reach the flying beast without any bird person help. But then once you reach it the unintended way, you discover you cannot land on it.
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polygon
Comparing the two newest zelda to an immersive sim is a bold and interesting take. Historically, most immersive sims are made from more or less one studio (Arkane) and are infiltration fps.
Seeing Zelda ToTK as one not only broad the scope what the genre is able to make, but also gives a new way to see what was kinda a niche genre, even if many important video games comes from it, from far or near (system shock, bioshock, etc.
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Comparing the two newest zelda to an immersive sim is a bold and interesting take. Historically, most immersive sims are made from more or less one studio (Arkane) and are infiltration fps.
Seeing Zelda ToTK as one not only broad the scope what the genre is able to make, but also gives a new way to see what was kinda a niche genre, even if many important video games comes from it, from far or near (system shock, bioshock, etc.
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-romanograsnick
Huh. and which game did it in 2000? Deus Ex or Thief?
It felt like an ad for Zelda. But I got your idea. Games have been scripted experiences since a long time and I never understood why eating the candy in candy crush is not possible. I tried to make some games which allow players to achieve their goals the way they want. Sadly, I am not able to create big products as the one you talked about most
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Huh. and which game did it in 2000? Deus Ex or Thief?
It felt like an ad for Zelda. But I got your idea. Games have been scripted experiences since a long time and I never understood why eating the candy in candy crush is not possible. I tried to make some games which allow players to achieve their goals the way they want. Sadly, I am not able to create big products as the one you talked about most
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-bananabike279
The creative problem solving of both BotW and TotK reminds me of a little indie game called Tiny & Big: Grandpa's Leftovers. In it you're thrown into big open levels and only get 3 tools: a laser cutter to cut objects, a hook to pull objects towards you and rockets to send objects flying. It's awesome how the levels are both the obstacle and also the solution and there's nothing quite like it!
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The creative problem solving of both BotW and TotK reminds me of a little indie game called Tiny & Big: Grandpa's Leftovers. In it you're thrown into big open levels and only get 3 tools: a laser cutter to cut objects, a hook to pull objects towards you and rockets to send objects flying. It's awesome how the levels are both the obstacle and also the solution and there's nothing quite like it!
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-burnin8able
the thing that's hooked me the most I think is the fact that all the shrines that just give you an obstacle and a bunch of odds and ends to work with feel so fun to mess around in. I end up feeling like I've totally circumvented the intended path to the end in those shrines even when it's clear that what I did is pretty close to what nintendo wanted the player to do, which is just the best.
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the thing that's hooked me the most I think is the fact that all the shrines that just give you an obstacle and a bunch of odds and ends to work with feel so fun to mess around in. I end up feeling like I've totally circumvented the intended path to the end in those shrines even when it's clear that what I did is pretty close to what nintendo wanted the player to do, which is just the best.
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-grandsome1
That's why I say games barely evolved in interactivity since the early 00s, games are prettier but everything is dead. Just get a non-gamer to play a modern game and see the light leaving their eyes when you tell them, no you can't break that window/door and go through to progress, because there's nothing behind it it's just set dressing.
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That's why I say games barely evolved in interactivity since the early 00s, games are prettier but everything is dead. Just get a non-gamer to play a modern game and see the light leaving their eyes when you tell them, no you can't break that window/door and go through to progress, because there's nothing behind it it's just set dressing.
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-Tetsuoak2
Interesting but for me the approach is really different. Traditionnal immersive sims want heavily, like table top RPG, to tell you a story. Yours is really just to fill the blanks. Zelda tries the opposite. He creates a systemic world where to live your stories and in the blanks puts some naration that wil give more power to your stories.
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Interesting but for me the approach is really different. Traditionnal immersive sims want heavily, like table top RPG, to tell you a story. Yours is really just to fill the blanks. Zelda tries the opposite. He creates a systemic world where to live your stories and in the blanks puts some naration that wil give more power to your stories.
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-reidleblanc3140
The immersive sim experience is getting that tuba guy who was stuck in the hole out by attaching a metal plate and two carefully-placed hot-air balloons with campfires lit simultaneously with a perfectly-timed bullet-time fire-arrow shower. and then realising you could have just lifted him out with Ultrahand
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The immersive sim experience is getting that tuba guy who was stuck in the hole out by attaching a metal plate and two carefully-placed hot-air balloons with campfires lit simultaneously with a perfectly-timed bullet-time fire-arrow shower. and then realising you could have just lifted him out with Ultrahand
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-doclouis4236
Hot take, Tears of the Kingdom is -not- an immersive sim. It has emergent gameplay elements, but has a very linear story with no multiple endings and also the world isn't affected by your actions and there aren't any consequences for picking or choices certain actions that would affect the story or world.
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Hot take, Tears of the Kingdom is -not- an immersive sim. It has emergent gameplay elements, but has a very linear story with no multiple endings and also the world isn't affected by your actions and there aren't any consequences for picking or choices certain actions that would affect the story or world.
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-flarelia2019
I still remember when I first tried the BOTW Demo at a little pop up thing in a Mall when it was first coming out, on the great plateau, you see a camp of bokoblins with a tree beside them with a beehive, one arrow later and that was that. I instantly knew the game was something different after that.
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I still remember when I first tried the BOTW Demo at a little pop up thing in a Mall when it was first coming out, on the great plateau, you see a camp of bokoblins with a tree beside them with a beehive, one arrow later and that was that. I instantly knew the game was something different after that.
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-duskears8686
I'll feel immersed when I can repair my damaged weapons, explore under the water, pitch a tent to wait out the rain, and shrines don't feel like a parade of gas station bathrooms filled with dollar store 'puzzles'. Until then BotW and TotK will always just be -The Legend of Zelda: Gary's Mod- to me.
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I'll feel immersed when I can repair my damaged weapons, explore under the water, pitch a tent to wait out the rain, and shrines don't feel like a parade of gas station bathrooms filled with dollar store 'puzzles'. Until then BotW and TotK will always just be -The Legend of Zelda: Gary's Mod- to me.
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polygon
I really miss games like OG Deus Ex. For whatever reason, all later immersive sims were basically stealth games. Deus Ex really let you do anything. I played as a freaking gun blazing hacker and it was awesome. The later games were a complete let down to me. Openly fighting wasn't really an option.
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I really miss games like OG Deus Ex. For whatever reason, all later immersive sims were basically stealth games. Deus Ex really let you do anything. I played as a freaking gun blazing hacker and it was awesome. The later games were a complete let down to me. Openly fighting wasn't really an option.
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-lawrence9713
8: 40 this. Tried deus ex so many times and constantly thought I miss stuff. Went all ways after I finished the room/missions. Or Definity Original Sin 2. Its a pain - especially when alternative paths are dissappear after you finished a section. I have a huge fear of missing out it seems
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8: 40 this. Tried deus ex so many times and constantly thought I miss stuff. Went all ways after I finished the room/missions. Or Definity Original Sin 2. Its a pain - especially when alternative paths are dissappear after you finished a section. I have a huge fear of missing out it seems
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-NeovanGoth
Oof, calling TOTK an immersive sim almost hurts. Emerging gameplay? Absolutely! Complex and believable world full of interesting stories and lore? Not so much. To me it's a simulation based playground; a big toy box that excels in fun gameplay, but doesn't even try to be immersive.
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Oof, calling TOTK an immersive sim almost hurts. Emerging gameplay? Absolutely! Complex and believable world full of interesting stories and lore? Not so much. To me it's a simulation based playground; a big toy box that excels in fun gameplay, but doesn't even try to be immersive.
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-guitarzilla555
EXCELLENT explanation. I've watched a few videos explaining the Im Sim genre, but this one really clicked. BOTW's systems were already impressive, and TOTK's are just bonkers. And here I was thinking I'd never played an Im Sim - might have to try Prey or Dishonored next.
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EXCELLENT explanation. I've watched a few videos explaining the Im Sim genre, but this one really clicked. BOTW's systems were already impressive, and TOTK's are just bonkers. And here I was thinking I'd never played an Im Sim - might have to try Prey or Dishonored next.
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-mycenaeangal9312
My favorite time dming, I let my players have an achronoplan to nuke antartica with. I had no idea what an acronoplan was or that it was nuclear capable but that's why it pays to pay attention kids. Anyways the point is you should let your players nuke antartica.
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My favorite time dming, I let my players have an achronoplan to nuke antartica with. I had no idea what an acronoplan was or that it was nuclear capable but that's why it pays to pay attention kids. Anyways the point is you should let your players nuke antartica.
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polygon
So, apparently, I haven't actually played TotK. I went through the whole story, including that jaw-droppingly awesome fight against Ganondorf, I did a lot of the shrines, explored a decent bit of the depths, etc, but judging by this footage here, I have not played TotK.
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So, apparently, I haven't actually played TotK. I went through the whole story, including that jaw-droppingly awesome fight against Ganondorf, I did a lot of the shrines, explored a decent bit of the depths, etc, but judging by this footage here, I have not played TotK.
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-bensweeney5878
I just wish that they didnt give us all the tools right away and let us find them for ourselves. You can still have non linear game design while slowly introducing new elements that open up the world more and more giving you more options
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I just wish that they didnt give us all the tools right away and let us find them for ourselves. You can still have non linear game design while slowly introducing new elements that open up the world more and more giving you more options
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-theadmiral4625
. except Nintendo will literally patch everything out of the game if they can to linearize progression gate-kept behind 3 hr respawns to RNG 1% chance of materials respawning thus padding the game by HUNDREDS of hours. RIP 1. 1. 1.
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. except Nintendo will literally patch everything out of the game if they can to linearize progression gate-kept behind 3 hr respawns to RNG 1% chance of materials respawning thus padding the game by HUNDREDS of hours. RIP 1. 1. 1.
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-jay_ds4800
All credit to the founders of immersive sims, but TotK actually delivered on the promise of many immersive sims. The same way BoTW delivered on open world games that had existed before, but basically focused on killing innocent people
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All credit to the founders of immersive sims, but TotK actually delivered on the promise of many immersive sims. The same way BoTW delivered on open world games that had existed before, but basically focused on killing innocent people
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-jerotoro2021
Thinking about it, I really hope they give Ocarina of Time the FF7 Remake treatment, but make it an immersive sim. The fusion of having huge dungeons combined with limitless ways to complete them would be insanely enjoyable.
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Thinking about it, I really hope they give Ocarina of Time the FF7 Remake treatment, but make it an immersive sim. The fusion of having huge dungeons combined with limitless ways to complete them would be insanely enjoyable.
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-c4shguy224
Tears of the kingdom is an immersive sim only in gameplay. It's still amazing, but i feel that the only thing holding it back from being a true imsim is not having a story that dynamically reacts to what the player does.
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Tears of the kingdom is an immersive sim only in gameplay. It's still amazing, but i feel that the only thing holding it back from being a true imsim is not having a story that dynamically reacts to what the player does.
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-JesseAnderson
This video reminds me all the more just how horrible it is Bethesda made Prey's team make a live service Far Cry ripoff with absolutely 0 room for Immersive sim gameplay. It's like they wanted Redfall to fail
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This video reminds me all the more just how horrible it is Bethesda made Prey's team make a live service Far Cry ripoff with absolutely 0 room for Immersive sim gameplay. It's like they wanted Redfall to fail
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