On diet and human height
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Date: 2024-05-03
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Comments and reviews: 20
morganchilds9054
This is very thought-provoking, and I'll tell you the sort of thread it got me going on. I have never wondered why I am tall; I'm 6'2. measured by a Nurse Practioner at my last physical--and my dad is 6'1. Like my dad, I also have smallish hands for a man my size, and my feet are size 9. 5. Small or average hands and feet, relative to my height I would say, but it stands to reason I carry some genes that equate to relative tall-ness. I also have my maternal grandfather's hair, as the story I've heard goes, that's the hairline you get. Grandad's hair was bulletproof. he used a little brylcreem and it looked just like my profile pic here, actually. A side part with a slight pompadour in the front. Grandad was 5'8 tall, and my dad's dad, who we called Pappy, where my dad presumably inherited some genes for the tall-ness of myself and my father, was also about 5'8 tall. I have my Pappy's laugh, ask anybody in my family. The point being. I see myself in my father and also both of my grandfathers. Both of my uncles on the maternal side of the family were 6' tall.
Why is it not tall men all the way down the line Well, I reckon. both of them grew up dirt poor farmers in rural BC and Saskatchewan. Also. Pappy and Grandad did a little thing in 1944 called the Second World War, and it wasn't very much fun. They were both twenty-one years old at the time. They lied about their ages at age 16 to join the Army in in Canada, and two years later were shipped out to the North Africa Campaign in separate units. Pappy was with the Princess Patricia Regiment out of Edmonton. His tank got blown up and his legs shredded. He lived to be 87. Grandad was a paratrooper who dropped into Sicily near the end of the war. He didn't talk about what happened to him or what he did. He lived to be 88.
I reckon that both of them would have grown to more of their genetic potential had they not experienced the Great Depression as dirt farmers in rural Canada who then went on to fight a war at the time their bodies were releasing the maximum amount of testosterone and other growth hormones. They used all of it up in the war. Tough as NAILS they both were. I loved them dearly.
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This is very thought-provoking, and I'll tell you the sort of thread it got me going on. I have never wondered why I am tall; I'm 6'2. measured by a Nurse Practioner at my last physical--and my dad is 6'1. Like my dad, I also have smallish hands for a man my size, and my feet are size 9. 5. Small or average hands and feet, relative to my height I would say, but it stands to reason I carry some genes that equate to relative tall-ness. I also have my maternal grandfather's hair, as the story I've heard goes, that's the hairline you get. Grandad's hair was bulletproof. he used a little brylcreem and it looked just like my profile pic here, actually. A side part with a slight pompadour in the front. Grandad was 5'8 tall, and my dad's dad, who we called Pappy, where my dad presumably inherited some genes for the tall-ness of myself and my father, was also about 5'8 tall. I have my Pappy's laugh, ask anybody in my family. The point being. I see myself in my father and also both of my grandfathers. Both of my uncles on the maternal side of the family were 6' tall.
Why is it not tall men all the way down the line Well, I reckon. both of them grew up dirt poor farmers in rural BC and Saskatchewan. Also. Pappy and Grandad did a little thing in 1944 called the Second World War, and it wasn't very much fun. They were both twenty-one years old at the time. They lied about their ages at age 16 to join the Army in in Canada, and two years later were shipped out to the North Africa Campaign in separate units. Pappy was with the Princess Patricia Regiment out of Edmonton. His tank got blown up and his legs shredded. He lived to be 87. Grandad was a paratrooper who dropped into Sicily near the end of the war. He didn't talk about what happened to him or what he did. He lived to be 88.
I reckon that both of them would have grown to more of their genetic potential had they not experienced the Great Depression as dirt farmers in rural Canada who then went on to fight a war at the time their bodies were releasing the maximum amount of testosterone and other growth hormones. They used all of it up in the war. Tough as NAILS they both were. I loved them dearly.
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theeddorian
Back when I was collecting my anthropology degree, the section on physical anthropology addressed both climate and diet effects on human physical dimensions. Climate adaptation is commonly seen in surface area to volume adaptations. Cold environments affect rounder forms less than long, skinny ones. If you are border, and heavier built, you radiate less heat. Innuit people have relatively shorter legs to their torso length, and more relative depth and breadth. Australian people and northern and east Africans in particular run to longer skinnier formats, which cool easier, and in desert environments that also means you conserve water since sweating is reduced if you cool more quickly. Food availability affects body size, rather than proportions. This was studied in Japan following WW II, when a new generation of Japanese saw an increase in animal protein intake and the average height increased significantly. One paper I was required to read addressed diet and body size changes. It noted an increase in back problems, which the authors attributed to post-war dietary changes causing an increase in height. The increase in size demands a different pattern of body mechanics to be safe from injuries when lifting. Another paper addressed similar patterns among Mexican citizens.
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Back when I was collecting my anthropology degree, the section on physical anthropology addressed both climate and diet effects on human physical dimensions. Climate adaptation is commonly seen in surface area to volume adaptations. Cold environments affect rounder forms less than long, skinny ones. If you are border, and heavier built, you radiate less heat. Innuit people have relatively shorter legs to their torso length, and more relative depth and breadth. Australian people and northern and east Africans in particular run to longer skinnier formats, which cool easier, and in desert environments that also means you conserve water since sweating is reduced if you cool more quickly. Food availability affects body size, rather than proportions. This was studied in Japan following WW II, when a new generation of Japanese saw an increase in animal protein intake and the average height increased significantly. One paper I was required to read addressed diet and body size changes. It noted an increase in back problems, which the authors attributed to post-war dietary changes causing an increase in height. The increase in size demands a different pattern of body mechanics to be safe from injuries when lifting. Another paper addressed similar patterns among Mexican citizens.
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Scootermagoo
Being 6ft5 as a middle aged adult that is shrinking, I have never heard the term short king That would be insulting and the iq of a 12 year old. I didn't ask to peak in height somewhere between 6ft6 and 6ft7. I blame my dad for that. But I am not above ahemmm. calling people shorty if they are taller then me. But that's a tall guy thing. Personally being excessively tall isn't all it's cracked up to be I'm as big as brian shaw without the weight lifting, just a little shorter. I would not want to be any taller, my back and hips and knees already hate me, Why make it worse. Also trying to eat a healthy amount of food is difficult when you are my size, I eat more then you do, it's like cattle or whatever they spend a lot of time eating. And with a body like mine diabetes is a very likely outcome along with tall people of yor. So it's not all it's cracked up to be when buying shirts in my case or finding size 13 shoes everywhere or whatever. I would have been much happier being my brothers size of 6ft2-3 and 220 instead of 6ft5 and 255-260lbs.
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Being 6ft5 as a middle aged adult that is shrinking, I have never heard the term short king That would be insulting and the iq of a 12 year old. I didn't ask to peak in height somewhere between 6ft6 and 6ft7. I blame my dad for that. But I am not above ahemmm. calling people shorty if they are taller then me. But that's a tall guy thing. Personally being excessively tall isn't all it's cracked up to be I'm as big as brian shaw without the weight lifting, just a little shorter. I would not want to be any taller, my back and hips and knees already hate me, Why make it worse. Also trying to eat a healthy amount of food is difficult when you are my size, I eat more then you do, it's like cattle or whatever they spend a lot of time eating. And with a body like mine diabetes is a very likely outcome along with tall people of yor. So it's not all it's cracked up to be when buying shirts in my case or finding size 13 shoes everywhere or whatever. I would have been much happier being my brothers size of 6ft2-3 and 220 instead of 6ft5 and 255-260lbs.
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johngriswold2213
What a bunch of rot. Fighting At 22 and 5'7 my dad led 25 riflemen (boys mostly) up the boot of Italy, literally led them since young guys freeze in terror when a machine gun position up the hill from them opens up. No matter how tall they are, they dive for cover, maybe 5 or 10 of them return fire, and the platoon leader (my dad) has to physically lead them into deadly danger, going first to show it can be done. He did so several times until a German soldier popped up and mowed him down with a sub-machine gun. 6 through the rucksack and one through the chest.
BTW, that morning steak is likely to kill you if you keep it up for many years. Meat eating increases all cause mortality significantly; cancer, diabetes, CVD and heart disease. The science on this is voluminous, robust, and clear. Good Health!
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What a bunch of rot. Fighting At 22 and 5'7 my dad led 25 riflemen (boys mostly) up the boot of Italy, literally led them since young guys freeze in terror when a machine gun position up the hill from them opens up. No matter how tall they are, they dive for cover, maybe 5 or 10 of them return fire, and the platoon leader (my dad) has to physically lead them into deadly danger, going first to show it can be done. He did so several times until a German soldier popped up and mowed him down with a sub-machine gun. 6 through the rucksack and one through the chest.
BTW, that morning steak is likely to kill you if you keep it up for many years. Meat eating increases all cause mortality significantly; cancer, diabetes, CVD and heart disease. The science on this is voluminous, robust, and clear. Good Health!
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Olavo88
Interesting, but I need help. I'm in Central America. They say 50% of kids are underfed or undernourished. But that's because stunting uses international height reference and, as far as I see, Central American populations are simply genetically shorter, not necessarily underfed (see a paper in Indonesia in Nature on stunting. What is your take based on what youve read Is stunting actually a useful metric if we use wider world or western population references to determine how many kids suffer stunting
There's also some research suggesting that height depends on agricultural roots (low height) vs hunter roots (high height) and that it correlates to cultural usage of language (ridiculing short people because, well, short vs ridiculing tall people for being clumsy.
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Interesting, but I need help. I'm in Central America. They say 50% of kids are underfed or undernourished. But that's because stunting uses international height reference and, as far as I see, Central American populations are simply genetically shorter, not necessarily underfed (see a paper in Indonesia in Nature on stunting. What is your take based on what youve read Is stunting actually a useful metric if we use wider world or western population references to determine how many kids suffer stunting
There's also some research suggesting that height depends on agricultural roots (low height) vs hunter roots (high height) and that it correlates to cultural usage of language (ridiculing short people because, well, short vs ridiculing tall people for being clumsy.
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hecklepig
The perfect example of the height disparity is seen in the pictures from WWI. Find pics of the english solders standing in amongst the colonial soldiers from Australia or New Zealand. The kiwis and aussies tower over the english by at least six inches. The colonial troops came from cattle countries had better diets that included more meat protein and vegetables than the standard working class English diet. Come to WWII the same disparity exists but not so extreme. Go to england today and the difference is negligible for the most part. What happened The english diet has changed so greatly over the last century. I'm 6'4, my dad 6' 1 my grandfather 6', my great grandfather about 5' 11. 140 years of living well in NZ makes as much the difference as genetics.
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The perfect example of the height disparity is seen in the pictures from WWI. Find pics of the english solders standing in amongst the colonial soldiers from Australia or New Zealand. The kiwis and aussies tower over the english by at least six inches. The colonial troops came from cattle countries had better diets that included more meat protein and vegetables than the standard working class English diet. Come to WWII the same disparity exists but not so extreme. Go to england today and the difference is negligible for the most part. What happened The english diet has changed so greatly over the last century. I'm 6'4, my dad 6' 1 my grandfather 6', my great grandfather about 5' 11. 140 years of living well in NZ makes as much the difference as genetics.
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amberallen7809
I once met a guy on a TEFL course I did. He was from the US (as am I) but we were doing the course down in Costa Rica. He was somewhere around 6'5. He had a hard time the whole time, constantly hitting his head on doorways and other things that were fine for the average person, but were too short for him to clear. At one point we took a three hour bus ride and he had to get an aisle seat and sit sideways with his legs out in the aisle because the seats were too close and low for him to sit with his feet in front of him. So, as with most things, I think average height or close to it is probably the best you should hope for in terms of how it affects your life.
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I once met a guy on a TEFL course I did. He was from the US (as am I) but we were doing the course down in Costa Rica. He was somewhere around 6'5. He had a hard time the whole time, constantly hitting his head on doorways and other things that were fine for the average person, but were too short for him to clear. At one point we took a three hour bus ride and he had to get an aisle seat and sit sideways with his legs out in the aisle because the seats were too close and low for him to sit with his feet in front of him. So, as with most things, I think average height or close to it is probably the best you should hope for in terms of how it affects your life.
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angrybeluga1697
The frustrating part of shortness is that it is one of the only physical deficits for which there is no easy method of concealment (toupees, hats, slimming clothes, push up bras, cosmetic surgery, etc. all exist to minimize the salience of not particularly coveted traits. It is interesting to me that Trump, already 6’3, still found it necessary to wear lifts, producing his signature centaur-like standing posture. He and DeSantis seem to have calculated that they simply cannot be too tall for the image they want others to project onto them, because they are aware of the subconscious associations Adam describes here.
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The frustrating part of shortness is that it is one of the only physical deficits for which there is no easy method of concealment (toupees, hats, slimming clothes, push up bras, cosmetic surgery, etc. all exist to minimize the salience of not particularly coveted traits. It is interesting to me that Trump, already 6’3, still found it necessary to wear lifts, producing his signature centaur-like standing posture. He and DeSantis seem to have calculated that they simply cannot be too tall for the image they want others to project onto them, because they are aware of the subconscious associations Adam describes here.
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TheFireMaker117
I'm 6 foot and I feel short when a 7 footer has to duck under a normal sized door. Also to all the short kings. If you want to join military service, try being a tanker. Tanks are realy cramped and you dont need muscles unless your an american loader. In which case work out your left arm alot. Also pilots but good luck becoming a pilot. Everyone wants to be one. Also maybe paratroopers becase the smaller you are the lighter you hit the ground and the smaller target you are floating down. But then you have to carry all the same supplies. Or maybe just be a cook
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I'm 6 foot and I feel short when a 7 footer has to duck under a normal sized door. Also to all the short kings. If you want to join military service, try being a tanker. Tanks are realy cramped and you dont need muscles unless your an american loader. In which case work out your left arm alot. Also pilots but good luck becoming a pilot. Everyone wants to be one. Also maybe paratroopers becase the smaller you are the lighter you hit the ground and the smaller target you are floating down. But then you have to carry all the same supplies. Or maybe just be a cook
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hankjaffe9542
You talked about how people give tall people more opportunities(which as a 6 8 guy they definitely do, and i wonder how much of it is social standards of thinking tall is better, how much is evolutionary psych with tall people being better at fighting and therefor more often the leader of tribes, and how much is just noticing taller people. Ive noticed throughout my life that I tend to notice tall people more, and I tend to get noticed more, and I think a non-zero amount of taller people doing better in life is just being more physically noticeable.
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You talked about how people give tall people more opportunities(which as a 6 8 guy they definitely do, and i wonder how much of it is social standards of thinking tall is better, how much is evolutionary psych with tall people being better at fighting and therefor more often the leader of tribes, and how much is just noticing taller people. Ive noticed throughout my life that I tend to notice tall people more, and I tend to get noticed more, and I think a non-zero amount of taller people doing better in life is just being more physically noticeable.
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emilybilbow4990
YesI’m sure that nutritional issues severe enough to effect height are pretty rare in today world many years ago food insecurity might mean a person barely ate enough to survive for extended periods of time not missing lunch a few times malnutrition and lack of vitamins and minerals were common. I’m sure there are still issues but not to the extent of years past it is also interesting as years ago opulence was seen as an indicator of wealth and success and now it’s basically the opposite
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YesI’m sure that nutritional issues severe enough to effect height are pretty rare in today world many years ago food insecurity might mean a person barely ate enough to survive for extended periods of time not missing lunch a few times malnutrition and lack of vitamins and minerals were common. I’m sure there are still issues but not to the extent of years past it is also interesting as years ago opulence was seen as an indicator of wealth and success and now it’s basically the opposite
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aragusea
Nice that you like Lindybeige as well, you both truly are men of culture and I could listen to you endlessly.
And btw, it's the LEIdenfrost effect, pronounced like i after the L, not LIEdenfrost, pronounced like e. Funny how english speakers always want to turn around this vowel combination to fit what they think how to pronounce when it's actually way easier the original way once you know it. ;-)
And one more fun fact: Ei on it's own is a word, too, namely egg! :-D
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Nice that you like Lindybeige as well, you both truly are men of culture and I could listen to you endlessly.
And btw, it's the LEIdenfrost effect, pronounced like i after the L, not LIEdenfrost, pronounced like e. Funny how english speakers always want to turn around this vowel combination to fit what they think how to pronounce when it's actually way easier the original way once you know it. ;-)
And one more fun fact: Ei on it's own is a word, too, namely egg! :-D
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jomjohns
Something I’ve wondered about myself for a long time, I was a head taller than the kids at school growing up. I got my drivers license the day I turned 16 and measured 6’4 at the DMV. But, my mom fed us kids sugar; soda, candy, chocolates, cookies. And from 14-16 I played online games until 3 sometimes even 4 and 5 am on school nights.
Had my diet been better, had I not spent 2 years getting less than 3 hours of sleep per night would I be even taller
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Something I’ve wondered about myself for a long time, I was a head taller than the kids at school growing up. I got my drivers license the day I turned 16 and measured 6’4 at the DMV. But, my mom fed us kids sugar; soda, candy, chocolates, cookies. And from 14-16 I played online games until 3 sometimes even 4 and 5 am on school nights.
Had my diet been better, had I not spent 2 years getting less than 3 hours of sleep per night would I be even taller
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TristanDonaldson
I’m somewhere between 6’ and 6’0. 5. I still get called short from time to time. People think that your height is a personal failing, like you can just choose to be 6’5 but didn’t put in the effort. Somehow men and women alike hate on being in the 5’9 to 5’11 range, as if it’s short, and praise the 6’-6’2 range as if it’s somehow gigantic. Some people just think anyone below 6’3 is short. It’s honestly all a bit overrated.
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I’m somewhere between 6’ and 6’0. 5. I still get called short from time to time. People think that your height is a personal failing, like you can just choose to be 6’5 but didn’t put in the effort. Somehow men and women alike hate on being in the 5’9 to 5’11 range, as if it’s short, and praise the 6’-6’2 range as if it’s somehow gigantic. Some people just think anyone below 6’3 is short. It’s honestly all a bit overrated.
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sethparham5669
I'm 5' 11. Which is not tall enough to really feel tall per say, but statistically I am taller than a slight majority of people that I encounter in the US. Recently I took a trip to Amsterdam for work and it was shocking how suddenly average I felt. I had not noticed my slightly above average height in the US, because that is the water I swim in. But suddenly being in a country where my height is just statistically normal. It was weird.
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I'm 5' 11. Which is not tall enough to really feel tall per say, but statistically I am taller than a slight majority of people that I encounter in the US. Recently I took a trip to Amsterdam for work and it was shocking how suddenly average I felt. I had not noticed my slightly above average height in the US, because that is the water I swim in. But suddenly being in a country where my height is just statistically normal. It was weird.
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cianlacy6515
6’6and I feel powerful! Lmao
(Also just as an edit as I got to that part of the video, I tried to be vegetarian for a year until my doctor said I was damn near malnourished, so I went pescatarian and still couldn’t get enough protein due to lack of funds at the time and protein powder/ shakes made hurt my stomach for whatever reason, getting good food and high protein growing up definitely had an influence on my health and height
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6’6and I feel powerful! Lmao
(Also just as an edit as I got to that part of the video, I tried to be vegetarian for a year until my doctor said I was damn near malnourished, so I went pescatarian and still couldn’t get enough protein due to lack of funds at the time and protein powder/ shakes made hurt my stomach for whatever reason, getting good food and high protein growing up definitely had an influence on my health and height
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blakrok6203
i am 6'6 at 210, while visually I appear relatively fit, I am a very sedentary STEM student and am thus mostly fat, borderline obese, I'm told. visuals can be VERY muddled in defining things nowadays. by all means they are good baselines as historical stereotyping has real reasons for existing, but the weight of the need to qualify and verify that definitely grows by the very moment the clocks ticks even a second forward.
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i am 6'6 at 210, while visually I appear relatively fit, I am a very sedentary STEM student and am thus mostly fat, borderline obese, I'm told. visuals can be VERY muddled in defining things nowadays. by all means they are good baselines as historical stereotyping has real reasons for existing, but the weight of the need to qualify and verify that definitely grows by the very moment the clocks ticks even a second forward.
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matthewbrotman2907
One example of food insecurity affecting British people was the wartime food rationing, which continued for several years after the war ended. This resulted in the British Invasion bands being stocked with shorter guys. Roger Daltrey, Davy Jones, etc. The Small Faces got their name in part because none of them were over 5-6. They had to drop the Small part when the towering 5-10 Rod Stewart joined.
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One example of food insecurity affecting British people was the wartime food rationing, which continued for several years after the war ended. This resulted in the British Invasion bands being stocked with shorter guys. Roger Daltrey, Davy Jones, etc. The Small Faces got their name in part because none of them were over 5-6. They had to drop the Small part when the towering 5-10 Rod Stewart joined.
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hifumibestgirl
I am 2 inches shorter than the height predicted by my pediatrician for my entire development. I was constantly sick until I got to college, having to be on antibiotics 5-6 times per year, every year from a young age. When I graduated high school, my BMI was 16; even though we came from a good family, my siblings and I maybe got one good meal per day, while most of what we ate was processed junk food.
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I am 2 inches shorter than the height predicted by my pediatrician for my entire development. I was constantly sick until I got to college, having to be on antibiotics 5-6 times per year, every year from a young age. When I graduated high school, my BMI was 16; even though we came from a good family, my siblings and I maybe got one good meal per day, while most of what we ate was processed junk food.
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ericey0003
I think 2 footnotes are important here.
1. Eating MORE specifically is good up to a point. A lot of research shows fat kids experience differentiating hormone levels. Which can stunt growth.
2 the quality of food is almost as important as the nutritional makeup itself. 50 grams of carbs from homemade peta bread is the same as 50 grams of carbs for Oreos.
Everything else is facts though
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I think 2 footnotes are important here.
1. Eating MORE specifically is good up to a point. A lot of research shows fat kids experience differentiating hormone levels. Which can stunt growth.
2 the quality of food is almost as important as the nutritional makeup itself. 50 grams of carbs from homemade peta bread is the same as 50 grams of carbs for Oreos.
Everything else is facts though
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