On sage, phytochemicals and dudes who won't eat plants
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Date: 2024-05-09
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Comments and reviews: 20
johnpienta4200
There's so many threads here. Love the education, as always. The story behind warding off spirits is interesting. Did people who keep a lot of it around their house ward off fleas, ticks, mosquitoes that carried bad humors We can only speculate.
There's no doubt these plants can be both nutritious and delicious and the initial framing of the argument for just eating meat resonates quite a bit with me as one of those people who starts dying at (accelerated) speeds when eating various plants. In order of descending death acceleration. Sesame > Peanut > Tree Nut > Gluten > Nightshades > Oats. Eventually I gave up on essentially any plants although I'll have a GF Cupcake at my kids birthday etc. But yeah, the notion that some people tolerate plants much better than others is a great way to frame this, and hilariously, does represent a backslide in adaptations in the evolutionary sense.
I too hate the militant one sized fits all arguments, but people who are really sick, or have auto immune issues do deserve to be offered a plant free diet, and see if it works out for them. Also, if you're really all meat you don't get scurvy, whether that's because you're scavenging vitamin C more due to ketosis, or not competing with sugars for its uptake in the GI tract, is all speculation.
Love your videos and especially the freedom here you have in making you-do-you content. Validates my desire to have followed you in the first place. You're a curious person, and a delightful video essayist.
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There's so many threads here. Love the education, as always. The story behind warding off spirits is interesting. Did people who keep a lot of it around their house ward off fleas, ticks, mosquitoes that carried bad humors We can only speculate.
There's no doubt these plants can be both nutritious and delicious and the initial framing of the argument for just eating meat resonates quite a bit with me as one of those people who starts dying at (accelerated) speeds when eating various plants. In order of descending death acceleration. Sesame > Peanut > Tree Nut > Gluten > Nightshades > Oats. Eventually I gave up on essentially any plants although I'll have a GF Cupcake at my kids birthday etc. But yeah, the notion that some people tolerate plants much better than others is a great way to frame this, and hilariously, does represent a backslide in adaptations in the evolutionary sense.
I too hate the militant one sized fits all arguments, but people who are really sick, or have auto immune issues do deserve to be offered a plant free diet, and see if it works out for them. Also, if you're really all meat you don't get scurvy, whether that's because you're scavenging vitamin C more due to ketosis, or not competing with sugars for its uptake in the GI tract, is all speculation.
Love your videos and especially the freedom here you have in making you-do-you content. Validates my desire to have followed you in the first place. You're a curious person, and a delightful video essayist.
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zenaku666
On the topic of evolution and how survival of the fittest is often misinterpreted by people as survival of the strongest, smartest, biggest etc. I want to share a study I learned about in graduate school. I wish I could remember the authors, but I don't so will have to give a summary. Basically the researchers were studying this microscopic arthropod (I think it was a form of dust mite, there were two variants of the species: a big, well armored tank, and a smaller more slender less well armored one. The researchers planted a group of females of the species in the center of a dish, and the two different kinds at various different locations in the dish. The presence of a female group would ensure the two populations of males would not get along. Unsurprisingly the big strong well armored ones basically wiped out the smaller ones.
Then the researchers changed the game: instead of having an open dish they segmented the dish with cut drinking straws. Now the females were behind a series of walls, and suddenly it was no longer a benefit to be so big because they couldn't slip under the walls as easily, and the researchers found the smaller mites were the ones who successfully mated, and survived.
The moral, such that there is one, is that evolution doesn't work by what _you_ personally consider to be beneficial. It is always about how an adaptation interacts with the environment the organism finds itself in.
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On the topic of evolution and how survival of the fittest is often misinterpreted by people as survival of the strongest, smartest, biggest etc. I want to share a study I learned about in graduate school. I wish I could remember the authors, but I don't so will have to give a summary. Basically the researchers were studying this microscopic arthropod (I think it was a form of dust mite, there were two variants of the species: a big, well armored tank, and a smaller more slender less well armored one. The researchers planted a group of females of the species in the center of a dish, and the two different kinds at various different locations in the dish. The presence of a female group would ensure the two populations of males would not get along. Unsurprisingly the big strong well armored ones basically wiped out the smaller ones.
Then the researchers changed the game: instead of having an open dish they segmented the dish with cut drinking straws. Now the females were behind a series of walls, and suddenly it was no longer a benefit to be so big because they couldn't slip under the walls as easily, and the researchers found the smaller mites were the ones who successfully mated, and survived.
The moral, such that there is one, is that evolution doesn't work by what _you_ personally consider to be beneficial. It is always about how an adaptation interacts with the environment the organism finds itself in.
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kbrennan3836
If you look at comparative anatomy, you can clearly see that plant-eaters are the more evolved species. Every mammalian species has some version of what you could call the carnivore GI tract - an acid-producing stomach and simple intestinal tract with different sections for different purposes, all tied into the pancreas and the gall bladder and the lymphatics in more or less the same ways. You start to see variations - an evolution, if you will - in animals that have been eating primarily or exclusively plants for a long time. They start to get sections added to their GI tract or altered to be bigger to help deal with breaking down plants, and different species do that differently, even if they're eating the same things. Cows developed their four-chambered stomach to ferment grass, while horses have a simpler stomach but a very complicated colon. You can see the remnants of the simpler animals they evolved from in their GI tracts - one of the four chambers of the cow's stomach produces acid and is almost indistinguishable from a human's or a wolf's. But, the plant-eaters needed adaptations that the meat-eaters didn't, so they added a whole bunch of extra stuff through evolution, while the meat-eaters stuck with the original model.
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If you look at comparative anatomy, you can clearly see that plant-eaters are the more evolved species. Every mammalian species has some version of what you could call the carnivore GI tract - an acid-producing stomach and simple intestinal tract with different sections for different purposes, all tied into the pancreas and the gall bladder and the lymphatics in more or less the same ways. You start to see variations - an evolution, if you will - in animals that have been eating primarily or exclusively plants for a long time. They start to get sections added to their GI tract or altered to be bigger to help deal with breaking down plants, and different species do that differently, even if they're eating the same things. Cows developed their four-chambered stomach to ferment grass, while horses have a simpler stomach but a very complicated colon. You can see the remnants of the simpler animals they evolved from in their GI tracts - one of the four chambers of the cow's stomach produces acid and is almost indistinguishable from a human's or a wolf's. But, the plant-eaters needed adaptations that the meat-eaters didn't, so they added a whole bunch of extra stuff through evolution, while the meat-eaters stuck with the original model.
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JAN0L
It's not necesarily that animals that couldn't handle those toxins have all died. It could simply be that animals with genes that could handle them better were some fraction of a percentage more likely to reproduce and over hundreds of generations that copy of the gene would slowly spread in the population and eventually dominate.
We certainly have a lot of adaptations that are relatively minor in effect that despite that still persist.
Also while it's true that there is no wrong direction for evolution when we dispassionately look at humans as just another animal, from our social perspective there certainly can be mismatch in the traits we find desirable in the population and what's currently being selected for evolutionarily. For example currently in many countries there is a negative selection for intelligence that's estimated in some countries to result in a loss of 1 point of genotypic IQ per decade. Might as well reintroduce leaded gasoline if it's not an issue.
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It's not necesarily that animals that couldn't handle those toxins have all died. It could simply be that animals with genes that could handle them better were some fraction of a percentage more likely to reproduce and over hundreds of generations that copy of the gene would slowly spread in the population and eventually dominate.
We certainly have a lot of adaptations that are relatively minor in effect that despite that still persist.
Also while it's true that there is no wrong direction for evolution when we dispassionately look at humans as just another animal, from our social perspective there certainly can be mismatch in the traits we find desirable in the population and what's currently being selected for evolutionarily. For example currently in many countries there is a negative selection for intelligence that's estimated in some countries to result in a loss of 1 point of genotypic IQ per decade. Might as well reintroduce leaded gasoline if it's not an issue.
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gingermcgingin4106
To touch on the why do we eat toxic things, one of the hypothesis for the ultimate (in evolutionary terms) reason is because they're toxic. That thing about some phytochemicals being antimicrobial Turns out that still holds true inside the human body, so they can potentially treat your stomach bug or skin infection or whatever. We can actually observe this in nature: In the tropical grasslands of South America there's an animal call the maned wolf. This canid species is notable among it's kin for a very large part of it's diet consisting of plant, not animal, matter. Not just any plant matter, but almost entirely a fruit know as the wolf apple, so named because it's so bitter the maned wolf is the only thing willingly eats it. The reason the maned wolf goes out of its way to eat such a revolting thing is that the apple (not a real apple) has powerful antiparasitic properties, & the maned wolf happens to have a problem with parasitic worms.
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To touch on the why do we eat toxic things, one of the hypothesis for the ultimate (in evolutionary terms) reason is because they're toxic. That thing about some phytochemicals being antimicrobial Turns out that still holds true inside the human body, so they can potentially treat your stomach bug or skin infection or whatever. We can actually observe this in nature: In the tropical grasslands of South America there's an animal call the maned wolf. This canid species is notable among it's kin for a very large part of it's diet consisting of plant, not animal, matter. Not just any plant matter, but almost entirely a fruit know as the wolf apple, so named because it's so bitter the maned wolf is the only thing willingly eats it. The reason the maned wolf goes out of its way to eat such a revolting thing is that the apple (not a real apple) has powerful antiparasitic properties, & the maned wolf happens to have a problem with parasitic worms.
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microwave221
Meat's great and all, but getting most of our calories from it seems like a much more recent factory farming phenomenon. I think most of our calories historically came from plants since they tend to be easier to sneak up on, and more of our teeth are geared towards grinding down grains than tearing out throats, but that doesn't stop me from eating more of it than l probably ought. Hate fruits but weirdly enjoy vegetables, could be genetic since those sorta allergies run though my family pretty strong, or maybe it's just gut flora not being used to it enough. Eating is weird.
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Meat's great and all, but getting most of our calories from it seems like a much more recent factory farming phenomenon. I think most of our calories historically came from plants since they tend to be easier to sneak up on, and more of our teeth are geared towards grinding down grains than tearing out throats, but that doesn't stop me from eating more of it than l probably ought. Hate fruits but weirdly enjoy vegetables, could be genetic since those sorta allergies run though my family pretty strong, or maybe it's just gut flora not being used to it enough. Eating is weird.
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aragusea
Having takes a botany, phytochemistry, pharmacognosy and now a phytotherapy course while studying to become a pharmacist I cannot express how upset I am that the comeback of plant oriented medicinal therapy research has been hijacked by both carnivore advocates and swindlers alike. There is so much to be studied about the potential boons of the millions of secondary metabolites found in plants that could prove to be useful in therapy, but the most you hear about it is either liars saying they're all bad for you or people touting some tea as a cure all.
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Having takes a botany, phytochemistry, pharmacognosy and now a phytotherapy course while studying to become a pharmacist I cannot express how upset I am that the comeback of plant oriented medicinal therapy research has been hijacked by both carnivore advocates and swindlers alike. There is so much to be studied about the potential boons of the millions of secondary metabolites found in plants that could prove to be useful in therapy, but the most you hear about it is either liars saying they're all bad for you or people touting some tea as a cure all.
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AdityaMehendale
Funny story:
I love fresh basil. I had a plant on my kitchen-windowsill. Kitchen smelled great, especially when you brushed against the basil.
Silly me - what is 10x better than a basil I thought. Well - 10 basils! Right C'mon, am I right
three months later, large planter on the windowsill with 10 basil plants in full glory. And I tell you, it smelled HORRIBLE. Like in a chemical factory. When a certain threshold is crossed, your nose apparent relabels it from friend to enemy.
Now I am back to one plant, sometimes two on the sill.
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Funny story:
I love fresh basil. I had a plant on my kitchen-windowsill. Kitchen smelled great, especially when you brushed against the basil.
Silly me - what is 10x better than a basil I thought. Well - 10 basils! Right C'mon, am I right
three months later, large planter on the windowsill with 10 basil plants in full glory. And I tell you, it smelled HORRIBLE. Like in a chemical factory. When a certain threshold is crossed, your nose apparent relabels it from friend to enemy.
Now I am back to one plant, sometimes two on the sill.
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incredimazing
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Lauren: Oh that's great, who is sponsoring. oh no, oh please n-
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Lauren: Please, we have so many mattresses, we can barely move around the house!
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Adam: Hey honey, I got a sponsorship for my next video!
Lauren: Oh that's great, who is sponsoring. oh no, oh please n-
Adam: Oh please yes, is what you say when you rest on a mattress from Helix Sleep-
Lauren: Please, we have so many mattresses, we can barely move around the house!
Adam: That's right, 30% off any elite or lux mattress-
Lauren: We haven't seen the kids in weeks, they disappeared into the mattress maze-
Adam: Amazing mattresses for sure! From a premium mattress-in-a-box company.
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Nefermose
As someone who is on a meat based, low FODMAP diet in order to deal with chronic digestive conditions, it frustrates me to see such radical thinking associated with nutrition - whether among carnivores, vegans or folks on any other diet. I feel very lucky to be able to eat the kinds of food I'm able to tolerate, and it's been a very difficult journey for me. Diet doesn't need more stress associated with it than it already does. There is no such thing as a universal diet. I wish that more people could understand that.
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As someone who is on a meat based, low FODMAP diet in order to deal with chronic digestive conditions, it frustrates me to see such radical thinking associated with nutrition - whether among carnivores, vegans or folks on any other diet. I feel very lucky to be able to eat the kinds of food I'm able to tolerate, and it's been a very difficult journey for me. Diet doesn't need more stress associated with it than it already does. There is no such thing as a universal diet. I wish that more people could understand that.
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PossiblyABird
Great vid as always Adam, also If you happen to read this comment you usually pronounce the ending of plant families 'aceae' as 'AY-see-eye' or sometimes just 'AY-see, and lami also has 2 common pronunciations, I prefer 'lam-ee' cause I'm southern, but 'lah-mee' is usually how it's said, so I'd say it 'lam-ee-AY-see' but you might prefer 'lah-mee-AY-see-eye' based on your pronunciation in the video. I've also been struggling through all the taxonomic names while researching botany so I hope this helps: )
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Great vid as always Adam, also If you happen to read this comment you usually pronounce the ending of plant families 'aceae' as 'AY-see-eye' or sometimes just 'AY-see, and lami also has 2 common pronunciations, I prefer 'lam-ee' cause I'm southern, but 'lah-mee' is usually how it's said, so I'd say it 'lam-ee-AY-see' but you might prefer 'lah-mee-AY-see-eye' based on your pronunciation in the video. I've also been struggling through all the taxonomic names while researching botany so I hope this helps: )
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thepersonthatowns
Eating plants is a sign of lesser evolution because you’re lower on the food chain.
You likely are being harmed by the plants on a regular basis, just that you’re so used to be hurt and sick that you don’t know how good feels.
If you want to play the rhetorical game of what should and shouldn’t be eaten, you really should get the arguments from the top of points of the hierarchy and not random comments on X from anons
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Eating plants is a sign of lesser evolution because you’re lower on the food chain.
You likely are being harmed by the plants on a regular basis, just that you’re so used to be hurt and sick that you don’t know how good feels.
If you want to play the rhetorical game of what should and shouldn’t be eaten, you really should get the arguments from the top of points of the hierarchy and not random comments on X from anons
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williamshetler4954
Im a city dweller, but manage to find space for some potted herbs. One planter is called Scarborough Fair. Yup. You guessed it, it has parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. Another one is called Olive Garden and has oregano, basil, cilantro, and am trying to grow some garlic. Fresh herbs are expensive and not always so great from the grocery store. From my little garden they couldnt be fresher nor cheaper!
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Im a city dweller, but manage to find space for some potted herbs. One planter is called Scarborough Fair. Yup. You guessed it, it has parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme. Another one is called Olive Garden and has oregano, basil, cilantro, and am trying to grow some garlic. Fresh herbs are expensive and not always so great from the grocery store. From my little garden they couldnt be fresher nor cheaper!
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theyrecousins
I'm really enjoying this mode of presentation. I know this isn't actually as off the cuff as it might present - there's lots of camera setups and interstitial bits, obviously it's tightly scripted (or ready to be riffed. But I'm really excited when Adam sets himself to rip and run mode. I dig the more walking paced stuff too, I love it all, but this was breathless in a way that I can really gobble up.
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I'm really enjoying this mode of presentation. I know this isn't actually as off the cuff as it might present - there's lots of camera setups and interstitial bits, obviously it's tightly scripted (or ready to be riffed. But I'm really excited when Adam sets himself to rip and run mode. I dig the more walking paced stuff too, I love it all, but this was breathless in a way that I can really gobble up.
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Cristian. Cortez
This isn't actually related to sage but one of my favorite plants that grows around where I live is Texas Sage. It's really commonly used as a native shrubbery it's very tolerant to high heat and cold weather, and doesn't need all that much water, but when it does get some (like when it rains) it blooms like crazy, these really small purple flowers just take over and they do indeed smell like sage
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This isn't actually related to sage but one of my favorite plants that grows around where I live is Texas Sage. It's really commonly used as a native shrubbery it's very tolerant to high heat and cold weather, and doesn't need all that much water, but when it does get some (like when it rains) it blooms like crazy, these really small purple flowers just take over and they do indeed smell like sage
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cosmologism3958
One of the beautiful things about living in a time period when societies exist is that people who would not have survived otherwise are now able to survive, as long as their society is functional and does its job. That will almost certainly have an effect on genetic diversity of our species, preserving traits which may not be adapted to the present, but could be adapted to a future situation.
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One of the beautiful things about living in a time period when societies exist is that people who would not have survived otherwise are now able to survive, as long as their society is functional and does its job. That will almost certainly have an effect on genetic diversity of our species, preserving traits which may not be adapted to the present, but could be adapted to a future situation.
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XanderL
Again with the contempt for white males at the end there. Talk to a professional about this internalized self-hatred.
By the way, the claim about plant diets devolving humans is different than the one about phytochemicals. It's more to do with what plant diets displace, which is highly nutritious meat. Totally agree that devolving is a misnomer.
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Again with the contempt for white males at the end there. Talk to a professional about this internalized self-hatred.
By the way, the claim about plant diets devolving humans is different than the one about phytochemicals. It's more to do with what plant diets displace, which is highly nutritious meat. Totally agree that devolving is a misnomer.
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mrentity2210
I think it was Lindybeige who did a video a while ago on the subject of Why are only some plants poisonous and the answer was basically Incorrect starting premise. They're all poisonous, we've just evolved to deal with certain varieties of poison so they no longer actively poison us. That's been an idea stuck in my head forever.
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I think it was Lindybeige who did a video a while ago on the subject of Why are only some plants poisonous and the answer was basically Incorrect starting premise. They're all poisonous, we've just evolved to deal with certain varieties of poison so they no longer actively poison us. That's been an idea stuck in my head forever.
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matthewwright57
I am one of the poor unfortunate souls with crazy autoimmune issues. Runs in my family. I was diagnosed with Chrones, IBS, Arthritis, celiac, even MS. Im 36 and not dead so likely not that. I have managed to almost eliminate symptoms with a diet of meat, cheese, eggs, spinach, and salt. God I miss pizza.
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I am one of the poor unfortunate souls with crazy autoimmune issues. Runs in my family. I was diagnosed with Chrones, IBS, Arthritis, celiac, even MS. Im 36 and not dead so likely not that. I have managed to almost eliminate symptoms with a diet of meat, cheese, eggs, spinach, and salt. God I miss pizza.
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memyselfishness
I get the attitude towards those true man only eating meat society is devolved groups in your videos, but I found the negativity and harshness especially at the end of this video kinda jarring and off-putting. Maybe I'm just more of a ignore the idiots than fight the idiots kinda person than Ragusea.
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I get the attitude towards those true man only eating meat society is devolved groups in your videos, but I found the negativity and harshness especially at the end of this video kinda jarring and off-putting. Maybe I'm just more of a ignore the idiots than fight the idiots kinda person than Ragusea.
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