Why people prefer bronze die pasta to 'normal' pasta
video description
Anecdotally, the difference isn't equally pronounced for every sauce, it has a higher impact for sauces that are emulsions mainly (or exclusively) stabilized by the starches from the cooking water such as aglio e oglio or cacio e pepe.
I assume a similar effect could be achieved by adding a corn starch slurry like you'd do for many other sauces if they're too runny. That might be something to try.
Date: 2022-12-13
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Comments and reviews: 13
broadh2o
I love the part about checking citations. So often when I ve been doing academic work I go through sources cited and the amount of the time is actually crap in some way is pretty high.
Misleading readers through dishonest citations is a major problem and is the reason the good faith standard must not just be assumed, but checked. Sometimes, it s not even malicious, as in the case of the video, but the citation without context lends itself an air of authority that the claim doesn t deserve.
When researching the history of garlic, I caught several commonly repeated myths that had clearly come from one source which was dubious, but it got into the circulation from one paper to another. Many papers continued to claim a certain species of wild Allium was the genetic ancestor of garlic, even though genetic sequencing in the last 15 years has demonstrated that they are simply related, not a direct line of evolution.
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I love the part about checking citations. So often when I ve been doing academic work I go through sources cited and the amount of the time is actually crap in some way is pretty high.
Misleading readers through dishonest citations is a major problem and is the reason the good faith standard must not just be assumed, but checked. Sometimes, it s not even malicious, as in the case of the video, but the citation without context lends itself an air of authority that the claim doesn t deserve.
When researching the history of garlic, I caught several commonly repeated myths that had clearly come from one source which was dubious, but it got into the circulation from one paper to another. Many papers continued to claim a certain species of wild Allium was the genetic ancestor of garlic, even though genetic sequencing in the last 15 years has demonstrated that they are simply related, not a direct line of evolution.
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Jonny
I think this is similar to the searing meat question (another good band name, received wisdom was that searing sealed in the moisture, which was nonsense. But it did improve the flavour of the final dish, so is worth doing even if the believed reason for doing it wasn't sensible.
Bronze vs teflon is similar, I think. Bronze is absolutely a better experience at the end. Although to get the most out of it you should finish cooking in the sauce as Adam does here but also use some pasta water for that final step. And (I believe at least) have a fairly fatty sauce, via parmesan or butter or olive oil or whatever, to make an emulsion with the starch. The emulsion part I'm not so certain about, I think I'm right, but maybe its balls.
Given that I think the most important difference between the two pastas is the amount of starch in the water, and the emulsion when its combined with the fat in the sauce.
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I think this is similar to the searing meat question (another good band name, received wisdom was that searing sealed in the moisture, which was nonsense. But it did improve the flavour of the final dish, so is worth doing even if the believed reason for doing it wasn't sensible.
Bronze vs teflon is similar, I think. Bronze is absolutely a better experience at the end. Although to get the most out of it you should finish cooking in the sauce as Adam does here but also use some pasta water for that final step. And (I believe at least) have a fairly fatty sauce, via parmesan or butter or olive oil or whatever, to make an emulsion with the starch. The emulsion part I'm not so certain about, I think I'm right, but maybe its balls.
Given that I think the most important difference between the two pastas is the amount of starch in the water, and the emulsion when its combined with the fat in the sauce.
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Ryan
While I think this was a worthwhile experiment, I think you ignored the entire phenomenon that causes the perceived difference: starch in the pasta water.
The rough surface dissolves more starch into the water, and so for recipes where you save the pasta water for mixing in later with the sauce, the difference could be very perceivable. People likely attribute it to the pasta because correlation and whatnot, but it s likely that you tested this theory with the wrong recipe, or at least you tested a misconception about a true phenomenon.
It s a great video either way, but I think a recipe where the pasta water is used to finish the sauce would demonstrate the difference that has been perceived by many
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While I think this was a worthwhile experiment, I think you ignored the entire phenomenon that causes the perceived difference: starch in the pasta water.
The rough surface dissolves more starch into the water, and so for recipes where you save the pasta water for mixing in later with the sauce, the difference could be very perceivable. People likely attribute it to the pasta because correlation and whatnot, but it s likely that you tested this theory with the wrong recipe, or at least you tested a misconception about a true phenomenon.
It s a great video either way, but I think a recipe where the pasta water is used to finish the sauce would demonstrate the difference that has been perceived by many
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Renax
I haven't been testing bronze die vs teflon, but I recently by mistake purchased thinner spaghetti, (#1 Capellini) instead of #5 that we usually buy.
And the increased surface vs weight I think results in more sauce per mouthful witch I like enough to go back and buy more of the same one. I do really love it and recommend it highly.
This comes from someone who didn't know spaghetti even came in different sizes, it never crossed my mind.
If you try, beware the much shorter cooking time on the thin stuff, I think 2-2. 5 minutes is enough, but I just stand by the pot and test single strands every few seconds cause I really don't like overcooked pasta.
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I haven't been testing bronze die vs teflon, but I recently by mistake purchased thinner spaghetti, (#1 Capellini) instead of #5 that we usually buy.
And the increased surface vs weight I think results in more sauce per mouthful witch I like enough to go back and buy more of the same one. I do really love it and recommend it highly.
This comes from someone who didn't know spaghetti even came in different sizes, it never crossed my mind.
If you try, beware the much shorter cooking time on the thin stuff, I think 2-2. 5 minutes is enough, but I just stand by the pot and test single strands every few seconds cause I really don't like overcooked pasta.
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Eric
There's a valid question of how much additional sauce results in a perceivable difference in flavor. We can taste the difference in small % changes to salt concentration in recipes (by mass) so this is really no different. There's also more more surface area to rough textures vs. smooth ones, so perhaps a minute change in sauce adherence is all you need. And finally, is pasta taste a greater function of pre or post chewing? Can you tell the difference between teflon vs. bronze dye extruded pasta once you've cooked & mashed it up by hand? This is already starting to sound like the setup to an Ethan Chlebowski video.
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There's a valid question of how much additional sauce results in a perceivable difference in flavor. We can taste the difference in small % changes to salt concentration in recipes (by mass) so this is really no different. There's also more more surface area to rough textures vs. smooth ones, so perhaps a minute change in sauce adherence is all you need. And finally, is pasta taste a greater function of pre or post chewing? Can you tell the difference between teflon vs. bronze dye extruded pasta once you've cooked & mashed it up by hand? This is already starting to sound like the setup to an Ethan Chlebowski video.
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DreadKyller
It would have been interesting to see this done with a much thinner sauce. Some classic Italian dishes are pasta in what is essentially a very thin sauce of butter and pasta water in a somewhat stable emulsion. As the pasta water would change in starch levels between the two batches, using the same batch of pasta water for both sauces would remove that variable. Those sauces are very thin, and leave a very light coating on the pasta, as compared to a thicker sauce like what you used here. If there is a difference in the amount of sauce the pasta holds on to I feel it'd be more noticeable with a thin sauce.
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It would have been interesting to see this done with a much thinner sauce. Some classic Italian dishes are pasta in what is essentially a very thin sauce of butter and pasta water in a somewhat stable emulsion. As the pasta water would change in starch levels between the two batches, using the same batch of pasta water for both sauces would remove that variable. Those sauces are very thin, and leave a very light coating on the pasta, as compared to a thicker sauce like what you used here. If there is a difference in the amount of sauce the pasta holds on to I feel it'd be more noticeable with a thin sauce.
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Tarrot
Have you tried the Alton Brown method of cooking pasta? He puts the pasta into the water cold then boils the pasta in the cold water. Says that it saves water because you can fill to how much you need + saves time because you don't have to wait for the water to boil before the pasta starts absorbing water. Ethan Chlebowski also does this, and in an experiment found it took twice as long to wait for water to boil first then add the pasta to get cooked pasta. I'm curious if you've tried it or would notice any difference in how the pasta tastes either way.
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Have you tried the Alton Brown method of cooking pasta? He puts the pasta into the water cold then boils the pasta in the cold water. Says that it saves water because you can fill to how much you need + saves time because you don't have to wait for the water to boil before the pasta starts absorbing water. Ethan Chlebowski also does this, and in an experiment found it took twice as long to wait for water to boil first then add the pasta to get cooked pasta. I'm curious if you've tried it or would notice any difference in how the pasta tastes either way.
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Beau
Adam, can you please make a video about the potential health benefits of using an air fryer versus pan frying? I'm trying to use less oil in cooking, but when using less oil my food comes out burnt and awful. The chicken is dry, and I am sad. I've been thinking about getting an air fryer to reduce the amount of oil I consume and still have well cooked food, although I'm having difficulty finding information online about this for my particular needs. Most of what I see online are comparisons in deep frying food, something that I don't do at all.
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Adam, can you please make a video about the potential health benefits of using an air fryer versus pan frying? I'm trying to use less oil in cooking, but when using less oil my food comes out burnt and awful. The chicken is dry, and I am sad. I've been thinking about getting an air fryer to reduce the amount of oil I consume and still have well cooked food, although I'm having difficulty finding information online about this for my particular needs. Most of what I see online are comparisons in deep frying food, something that I don't do at all.
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Ryan
A little surprised you didn't experiment with pasta water. You even mentioned it as a possibility, but never followed up!
Reserve some of the cooking water from the pasta and reincorporate it into the sauce while mixing with the pasta (bonus points because this is another traditional step that modern American home kitchens often ignore. The additional surface area might mean more starch gets released by the bronze die pasta, and reincorporating THAT in the sauce might make it grippy enough to make that much more difference.
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A little surprised you didn't experiment with pasta water. You even mentioned it as a possibility, but never followed up!
Reserve some of the cooking water from the pasta and reincorporate it into the sauce while mixing with the pasta (bonus points because this is another traditional step that modern American home kitchens often ignore. The additional surface area might mean more starch gets released by the bronze die pasta, and reincorporating THAT in the sauce might make it grippy enough to make that much more difference.
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Micah
There's also the property of the pasta to remain at an al dente texture. The bronze-die pasta (e. g, Monograno Felicetti, De Cecco) can hold their al dente texture long enough for the cook to reduce sauce more or during the time it takes to make it to the table. The Barilla's and others smooth store brands of the world go soft QUICKLY. But maybe this has to do with the specific wheat, and/or the drying process of the extruded pasta. And, as you mentioned, the rough ones have a better mouthfeel.
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There's also the property of the pasta to remain at an al dente texture. The bronze-die pasta (e. g, Monograno Felicetti, De Cecco) can hold their al dente texture long enough for the cook to reduce sauce more or during the time it takes to make it to the table. The Barilla's and others smooth store brands of the world go soft QUICKLY. But maybe this has to do with the specific wheat, and/or the drying process of the extruded pasta. And, as you mentioned, the rough ones have a better mouthfeel.
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Spencer
I find that texture can make a big difference for certain pasta recipes. I find with aglio e olio, smooth pasta doesnt allow much of the oil and garlic to stick to it, but rough pasta does. I have also heard that that assassins spaghetti works better with smooth pasta rather than rough pasta, though i have not made it yet and cant comment from personal experience. When it comes to a basic tomato sauce, the difference is minimal.
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I find that texture can make a big difference for certain pasta recipes. I find with aglio e olio, smooth pasta doesnt allow much of the oil and garlic to stick to it, but rough pasta does. I have also heard that that assassins spaghetti works better with smooth pasta rather than rough pasta, though i have not made it yet and cant comment from personal experience. When it comes to a basic tomato sauce, the difference is minimal.
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Luca
I feel like I can tell a pretty huge difference between the quality of different pastas, for example, Barilla is consistently gross to me compared with most private label stuff (shout out to Aldi actually. I honestly am not surprised that the measurable difference in sauce retention is so small. It is clearly a mouthfeel thing. I would not be surprised if it is a flavor thing too. Not to mention starchier pasta cooking water.
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I feel like I can tell a pretty huge difference between the quality of different pastas, for example, Barilla is consistently gross to me compared with most private label stuff (shout out to Aldi actually. I honestly am not surprised that the measurable difference in sauce retention is so small. It is clearly a mouthfeel thing. I would not be surprised if it is a flavor thing too. Not to mention starchier pasta cooking water.
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Nico
i mean, but in real life, you WOULD add some of the cooking water. It's all about the starch increase. From my experience anyone who talked about the rough surface holds sauce better, didnt know what they were talking about.
It's one of those things that sound correct, so many people just believed it. Like You can see The Great Wall of China from space. No you can not, but it sounds plausible
anyway, yeah starch
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i mean, but in real life, you WOULD add some of the cooking water. It's all about the starch increase. From my experience anyone who talked about the rough surface holds sauce better, didnt know what they were talking about.
It's one of those things that sound correct, so many people just believed it. Like You can see The Great Wall of China from space. No you can not, but it sounds plausible
anyway, yeah starch
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