Completely Broken: Intel's Drivers Are Embarrassing (Arc GPUs)
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Date: 2022-08-02
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Comments and reviews: 14
X2yt
As much as I try, I really struggle to see the point of Intel GPU's. Like, okay, they released new product, but its neither cheaper nor easier to use or more powerful than old, even ancient hardware. You could get something like RX570 for 80-90 , which is almost twice cheaper than MSRP of something like Arc 380, but it performs considerably better. There is literally no actual logical reason to buy ARC GPU considering all the options out there. It might've worked as prototype for Intel, which is great, but there's no point in wasting silicon, money and resources and making millions of them to release into the market. Intel should've just iterated on ARC internally until they got them way, way better. There is an argument that this is just the first step, and over time Intel will make actually comptetetive GPU's, but that is, like, decades down the line. I mean, it's not like Nvidia and AMD are going to halt development of new GPU's to wait for Intel to catch up. And unless Intel somehow can accelerate their GPU development to insane levels, or invent some miracle new tech, both AMD and Nvidia are decades ahead in GPU production. By the time Intel catches up to current gen GPU s, AMD/Nvidia will have already released multiple much more powerful generations of GPU s. You simply can't start from 0 and get decades of experience in such short time. As I see it, Intel will always be lagging behind Red/Green teams, even if they catch up slightly, they will still be behind. Probably the more realistic approach could be for Intel to invent some new tech, and then just licence some of the tech to AMD/NVidia, like if they created some new API or whatever.
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As much as I try, I really struggle to see the point of Intel GPU's. Like, okay, they released new product, but its neither cheaper nor easier to use or more powerful than old, even ancient hardware. You could get something like RX570 for 80-90 , which is almost twice cheaper than MSRP of something like Arc 380, but it performs considerably better. There is literally no actual logical reason to buy ARC GPU considering all the options out there. It might've worked as prototype for Intel, which is great, but there's no point in wasting silicon, money and resources and making millions of them to release into the market. Intel should've just iterated on ARC internally until they got them way, way better. There is an argument that this is just the first step, and over time Intel will make actually comptetetive GPU's, but that is, like, decades down the line. I mean, it's not like Nvidia and AMD are going to halt development of new GPU's to wait for Intel to catch up. And unless Intel somehow can accelerate their GPU development to insane levels, or invent some miracle new tech, both AMD and Nvidia are decades ahead in GPU production. By the time Intel catches up to current gen GPU s, AMD/Nvidia will have already released multiple much more powerful generations of GPU s. You simply can't start from 0 and get decades of experience in such short time. As I see it, Intel will always be lagging behind Red/Green teams, even if they catch up slightly, they will still be behind. Probably the more realistic approach could be for Intel to invent some new tech, and then just licence some of the tech to AMD/NVidia, like if they created some new API or whatever.
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Kitkat5335
Steve, it isn't that they never try multiple GPU on their test bench, it is that over the years Microsoft has shifted to a 'All of our users are dumb, so we'll auto-do-everything cause no body knows anything' mentality. You see this with the various changes to basic OS control and default setups every new iteration. You used to be able to postpone, or opt out of certain updates. Now you are forced to install them whether or not it breaks something then forcefully remove it to fix an issue that should have been caught before rolling it out. The start menu/control panel was simple to get to....so simple infact people who didn't know what they were doing got into it and broke their OS that Microsoft said 'Well we can't have them do that anymore. and tried by making it less easy to get into. So many people haphazardly installed anything and everything that popped up, Microsoft instated a default setting that asks you 15 ways from tuesday if you are really sure you want to do anything until you disable it.
Better yet, lets not forget how they tried shifting OS more and more to touch screen compatible layouts instead of having a way to set it for touch screen or standard user preference layouts. Microsoft spends more time telling users what they think a user should be doing with their OS over listening to what users actually use their OS and software for.
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Steve, it isn't that they never try multiple GPU on their test bench, it is that over the years Microsoft has shifted to a 'All of our users are dumb, so we'll auto-do-everything cause no body knows anything' mentality. You see this with the various changes to basic OS control and default setups every new iteration. You used to be able to postpone, or opt out of certain updates. Now you are forced to install them whether or not it breaks something then forcefully remove it to fix an issue that should have been caught before rolling it out. The start menu/control panel was simple to get to....so simple infact people who didn't know what they were doing got into it and broke their OS that Microsoft said 'Well we can't have them do that anymore. and tried by making it less easy to get into. So many people haphazardly installed anything and everything that popped up, Microsoft instated a default setting that asks you 15 ways from tuesday if you are really sure you want to do anything until you disable it.
Better yet, lets not forget how they tried shifting OS more and more to touch screen compatible layouts instead of having a way to set it for touch screen or standard user preference layouts. Microsoft spends more time telling users what they think a user should be doing with their OS over listening to what users actually use their OS and software for.
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gamersnexus
Not saying your wrong, because you're not. Their drivers are poor, and always have been it seems like. Intel has had a bad history with GPU's and integrated graphics and video drivers that dates back all the way to 1998 with i740 Starfighter. BUT, its pretty cringe to have them on a recent prior episode, act totally friendly about said products, on video, then rip them to shreds basically 13 days later for the views. It was already suspect as is when you click baited that prior video's title with Intel is Hiding Data from Us , but this is just low hanging fruit mixed with a bit of next level petty, and isn't very constructive and completely lacks tact when you toss out extremes like embarrassing and shit instead of just stating, non-working, problematic, etc about a product that doesn't even have a world wide release yet. Its not at all about giving them a pass. You can still take them to task, but word it better as you do. Was the guest engineer that was on last even contacted about these issues and allowed to follow up with you in a response prior to releasing this video?
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Not saying your wrong, because you're not. Their drivers are poor, and always have been it seems like. Intel has had a bad history with GPU's and integrated graphics and video drivers that dates back all the way to 1998 with i740 Starfighter. BUT, its pretty cringe to have them on a recent prior episode, act totally friendly about said products, on video, then rip them to shreds basically 13 days later for the views. It was already suspect as is when you click baited that prior video's title with Intel is Hiding Data from Us , but this is just low hanging fruit mixed with a bit of next level petty, and isn't very constructive and completely lacks tact when you toss out extremes like embarrassing and shit instead of just stating, non-working, problematic, etc about a product that doesn't even have a world wide release yet. Its not at all about giving them a pass. You can still take them to task, but word it better as you do. Was the guest engineer that was on last even contacted about these issues and allowed to follow up with you in a response prior to releasing this video?
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riopato2009
Typical just like any big corporation, have a bunch of people on a project who may or may not know what they're doing and just throw whatever you got up against the wall and see if it will stick. This is basically bad management with no real goals and software development built by a committee instead of an a focused design team with the same goals in mind. As for QC? Well guess what Steve & Pat, you are the QC and unfortunately anyone who took a risk buying this card to be an early adopter. Why they didn't submit their most recent stable drivers to readily be available to Windows update as a backup to their software is anyone's guess. They could've at least give the user/tester/reviewer the ability to test the GPU without the control panel for at least a comparison to their suite without the bells and whistles bogging down the whole system. Not only is this mismanaged mess a failure to recognize development issues, it's a failure of deployment on a very basic level.
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Typical just like any big corporation, have a bunch of people on a project who may or may not know what they're doing and just throw whatever you got up against the wall and see if it will stick. This is basically bad management with no real goals and software development built by a committee instead of an a focused design team with the same goals in mind. As for QC? Well guess what Steve & Pat, you are the QC and unfortunately anyone who took a risk buying this card to be an early adopter. Why they didn't submit their most recent stable drivers to readily be available to Windows update as a backup to their software is anyone's guess. They could've at least give the user/tester/reviewer the ability to test the GPU without the control panel for at least a comparison to their suite without the bells and whistles bogging down the whole system. Not only is this mismanaged mess a failure to recognize development issues, it's a failure of deployment on a very basic level.
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Risingdawn
Wait till you try to actually game on the drivers, oh boy.
Our driver development team is experiencing a high volume of requests for fixes on game issues. And since we have limited resources, this means that fixes for issues on games outside of our top games list (we maintain an internal list of top games, considering the most played, recently released, etc.) will need to be put on hold. The fix for this issue falls into this category, so we currently cannot commit to target date for this fix to be released. I ll update you once the development of a fix for this issue is resumed.
This was an update from a few days ago, for a hard crash issue logged for FFVII:Re, 7 months ago. Let that sink in, one of the hottest game releases, 7 months, never bothered to fix it.
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Wait till you try to actually game on the drivers, oh boy.
Our driver development team is experiencing a high volume of requests for fixes on game issues. And since we have limited resources, this means that fixes for issues on games outside of our top games list (we maintain an internal list of top games, considering the most played, recently released, etc.) will need to be put on hold. The fix for this issue falls into this category, so we currently cannot commit to target date for this fix to be released. I ll update you once the development of a fix for this issue is resumed.
This was an update from a few days ago, for a hard crash issue logged for FFVII:Re, 7 months ago. Let that sink in, one of the hottest game releases, 7 months, never bothered to fix it.
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Matheus
I don't really understand the mentality of they are new to this, they are not. Intel has been making iGPUs since the i740 in 1998. If Intel wanted the dGPUs to be any good, improving the iGPUs should have been a key step in the process. During the 10 years of absolute dominance they had over the industry, improving the performance of whatever graphics silicon they had in the market was never a priority and its coming back to bite them now. No game development studio would bother to really put in the effort to optimize for ARC because Intel never tried to establish a relationship there. This whole project honestly has been pretty wierd from the start, but I hope they pull through because the Nvidia/Radeon doupoly is getting a little tiresome.
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I don't really understand the mentality of they are new to this, they are not. Intel has been making iGPUs since the i740 in 1998. If Intel wanted the dGPUs to be any good, improving the iGPUs should have been a key step in the process. During the 10 years of absolute dominance they had over the industry, improving the performance of whatever graphics silicon they had in the market was never a priority and its coming back to bite them now. No game development studio would bother to really put in the effort to optimize for ARC because Intel never tried to establish a relationship there. This whole project honestly has been pretty wierd from the start, but I hope they pull through because the Nvidia/Radeon doupoly is getting a little tiresome.
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Mirrors
I've worked on a giant project that had a rocky release in the past in a similar giant company. We /knew/ that the code wasn't ready, and ultimately we were told to stop testing and that we were shipping it based on the whims of an executive. It was a shitshow, my friends. We were dealing with support cases for so long that I nearly had a breakdown.
Development can't have missed this, but they were told to ship anyway. Now they get to go from burn out from crunch to burn out from the exanguination that is endless bug fixes. It's /always/ faster to fix issues before release - as soon as things get into the field, you need to worry about not bricking things.
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I've worked on a giant project that had a rocky release in the past in a similar giant company. We /knew/ that the code wasn't ready, and ultimately we were told to stop testing and that we were shipping it based on the whims of an executive. It was a shitshow, my friends. We were dealing with support cases for so long that I nearly had a breakdown.
Development can't have missed this, but they were told to ship anyway. Now they get to go from burn out from crunch to burn out from the exanguination that is endless bug fixes. It's /always/ faster to fix issues before release - as soon as things get into the field, you need to worry about not bricking things.
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coth
I had similar experience with Nvidia Experience . It wouldn't update for years. Was force quitting during update. Uninstall, reinstall didn't work. Nvidia was replying - it's your problem, we don't have it . Eventually I unpacked MSI installed it manually over existing installation. The problem gone after that. So they did have it and it was a bug in MSI script. They just didn't care. As of now it's probably worst experience of all overlays. 7 clicks to turn on fps counter and 5 clicks to turn it off... And 2 clicks to start recording if you don't want to use or don't have free convinient hotkeys. There is no point in menu - Start recording and Settings.
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I had similar experience with Nvidia Experience . It wouldn't update for years. Was force quitting during update. Uninstall, reinstall didn't work. Nvidia was replying - it's your problem, we don't have it . Eventually I unpacked MSI installed it manually over existing installation. The problem gone after that. So they did have it and it was a bug in MSI script. They just didn't care. As of now it's probably worst experience of all overlays. 7 clicks to turn on fps counter and 5 clicks to turn it off... And 2 clicks to start recording if you don't want to use or don't have free convinient hotkeys. There is no point in menu - Start recording and Settings.
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gamersnexus
I'm hoping they can improve and get things sorted. I haven't had too many issues on my laptop, the biggest thing is trouble updating the driver and Intel's DSA suggesting the software update around 15:00, I'd suggest looking at the size of the update, it made me laugh seeing an update supposedly being 17592186044416 MB in size.
Oh, and the hilarious mistakes found in HWinfo. I've had it claim my GPU was pulling 2.6kW of power and also that the fan ramped up to some insanely high RPM. It's mostly just software issues that I've seen, and nothing that has affected my use.
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I'm hoping they can improve and get things sorted. I haven't had too many issues on my laptop, the biggest thing is trouble updating the driver and Intel's DSA suggesting the software update around 15:00, I'd suggest looking at the size of the update, it made me laugh seeing an update supposedly being 17592186044416 MB in size.
Oh, and the hilarious mistakes found in HWinfo. I've had it claim my GPU was pulling 2.6kW of power and also that the fan ramped up to some insanely high RPM. It's mostly just software issues that I've seen, and nothing that has affected my use.
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Games
They know their virtue signaling is more important than hiring skilled people ... its over for intel bros
While many companies have been playing catch up when it comes to achieving diversity, equity and inclusion goals, Intel has been measuring its DEI efforts for more than a decade. The Silicon Valley microprocessor giant says it achieved its 2020 goal of reaching full representation of women and underrepresented minorities in its U.S. workforce two years ahead of schedule, and in January 2019, it achieved 100% gender pay equity globally.
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They know their virtue signaling is more important than hiring skilled people ... its over for intel bros
While many companies have been playing catch up when it comes to achieving diversity, equity and inclusion goals, Intel has been measuring its DEI efforts for more than a decade. The Silicon Valley microprocessor giant says it achieved its 2020 goal of reaching full representation of women and underrepresented minorities in its U.S. workforce two years ahead of schedule, and in January 2019, it achieved 100% gender pay equity globally.
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amerika
This all seems like multiple teams were tasked to create their portion of the driver, they tested their piece at the time on their very fast network (and not on a real network connection), and said SHIP IT. Also, it would not surprise me if they did not have proper QA teams. Microsoft is one of the biggest companies on the planet and they have virtually no QA whatsoever (source: I know many people who work there). And what they do have is outsourced and rarely engages in testing many of the features. This is for Xbox and Windows.
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This all seems like multiple teams were tasked to create their portion of the driver, they tested their piece at the time on their very fast network (and not on a real network connection), and said SHIP IT. Also, it would not surprise me if they did not have proper QA teams. Microsoft is one of the biggest companies on the planet and they have virtually no QA whatsoever (source: I know many people who work there). And what they do have is outsourced and rarely engages in testing many of the features. This is for Xbox and Windows.
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Fluffy
i'm currently at 6:40 and have an idea that might spare you a lot of time & work - try and use net booting and iSCSI. The iSCSI backing storage could be a copy-on-write kind of system, like ZFS. You create a known working windows installation, shut it down, take a snapshot on the backend, and then you can let intel break everything with their drivers ...if you need to reset, you just rollback/revert to a previous snapshot.
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i'm currently at 6:40 and have an idea that might spare you a lot of time & work - try and use net booting and iSCSI. The iSCSI backing storage could be a copy-on-write kind of system, like ZFS. You create a known working windows installation, shut it down, take a snapshot on the backend, and then you can let intel break everything with their drivers ...if you need to reset, you just rollback/revert to a previous snapshot.
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mfrey0118
Change your device install settings to no . On a completely unrelated note, I installed the new Radeon drivers with OpenGL improvements for my 6900XT and I had used the GN OC settings as a baseline and tweaked a bit. After installing the new drivers, I was getting crashes in Time Spy and Port Royal until I adjusted my undervolt from 1080 to 1090. After that, good to go although my score was slightly less than before...
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Change your device install settings to no . On a completely unrelated note, I installed the new Radeon drivers with OpenGL improvements for my 6900XT and I had used the GN OC settings as a baseline and tweaked a bit. After installing the new drivers, I was getting crashes in Time Spy and Port Royal until I adjusted my undervolt from 1080 to 1090. After that, good to go although my score was slightly less than before...
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IdlePit
I've been using an amd gpu (rx 6600) for about 9 month's now and I've got to say that the driver's have been pretty good, the only real issue I've had this gpu and it's driver's was when I first bought the gpu and the only recommended driver kept timing out (sometimes after 2 minutes of gaming, sometimes after hour's of gaming was weird) but my issue was resolved in the next driver and I've not had a single crash since
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I've been using an amd gpu (rx 6600) for about 9 month's now and I've got to say that the driver's have been pretty good, the only real issue I've had this gpu and it's driver's was when I first bought the gpu and the only recommended driver kept timing out (sometimes after 2 minutes of gaming, sometimes after hour's of gaming was weird) but my issue was resolved in the next driver and I've not had a single crash since
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