Testing Burning NVIDIA 12VHPWR Adapter Cable Theories (RTX 4090)
video description
Date: 2022-10-30
Related videos
Comments and reviews: 15
Henry
The voltage rating of the insulation is really of no consequence in this situation, and even at 150V is way over spec for this use case. The power rating for the cable, and thus the amount of amperes it can safely carry is all to do with the copper inside of it. I would say the temperature rating of the insulation is way more important in this use case. Having looked at the evidence of the burned connectors, I would say with confidence the issue is caused by poor conductivity between the pin and it mating shroud, causing local resistance and thus heating in the pin/shroud unit which would then melt the plastic connector housing around that area. I think this poor conductivity is caused by sideways stress on the connector, aggravated by the fact that soldering the rear part of the connector in that way provides absolutely no stress relief when the cable is bent in a sideways direction. Earlier connectors produced by NVidia for the 3090Ti GPUs did not use soldering on the rear entry, and used crimping of individual wires, as it should have been done in this case.
reply
The voltage rating of the insulation is really of no consequence in this situation, and even at 150V is way over spec for this use case. The power rating for the cable, and thus the amount of amperes it can safely carry is all to do with the copper inside of it. I would say the temperature rating of the insulation is way more important in this use case. Having looked at the evidence of the burned connectors, I would say with confidence the issue is caused by poor conductivity between the pin and it mating shroud, causing local resistance and thus heating in the pin/shroud unit which would then melt the plastic connector housing around that area. I think this poor conductivity is caused by sideways stress on the connector, aggravated by the fact that soldering the rear part of the connector in that way provides absolutely no stress relief when the cable is bent in a sideways direction. Earlier connectors produced by NVidia for the 3090Ti GPUs did not use soldering on the rear entry, and used crimping of individual wires, as it should have been done in this case.
reply
willgart
it's fine to see you doing all this job.
but it's not your role.
there is no need to go in depth like this.
Cable transferring more power need better construction and connector's effectiveness.
having power connectors, in a PC, where the bending of the cable is a potential issue, means the initial design has flaws.
if the initial design did not take care about the real usage of these connectors and cable, it's a design flaw.
so better to ask for a revision of these connectors, they have to provide more reliable ways to use them and not just don't bend it to move the fault to the customer...
I can't imagine the impact on a prebuild system, where they are using foam to make sure the GPU is not moving...
the current cables will be bent so much...
for now 90degrees connectors is the short term solution. but what about the PSU side? a 90degrees connector is not possible there while the cable can be bend too.
we'll see a revision for sure.
reply
it's fine to see you doing all this job.
but it's not your role.
there is no need to go in depth like this.
Cable transferring more power need better construction and connector's effectiveness.
having power connectors, in a PC, where the bending of the cable is a potential issue, means the initial design has flaws.
if the initial design did not take care about the real usage of these connectors and cable, it's a design flaw.
so better to ask for a revision of these connectors, they have to provide more reliable ways to use them and not just don't bend it to move the fault to the customer...
I can't imagine the impact on a prebuild system, where they are using foam to make sure the GPU is not moving...
the current cables will be bent so much...
for now 90degrees connectors is the short term solution. but what about the PSU side? a 90degrees connector is not possible there while the cable can be bend too.
we'll see a revision for sure.
reply
monsterrun
just like with rc cars... having so many battries meet up on a single end point is asking to spark a fire!
soldering does work...but it's resistance that generate heat. the more endpoints you have the more heat ends up being packed in one small location.
Plus the bending can weaken one soldering..if it get hot enough a weakened solder will break up.
it is never reccomanded on rc cars to setup 4 batteries together..even thought some do it.. like 2 packs in parralel and those 2 packs in serial.. the end point going to the esc is going to be stressed badly.
there is a way to wire them properly and this require a board wich all batteries are independently connected to and that board make the desire voltage output . etc..
600 watts on a single endpoint from 4 source is a very bad idea.
reply
just like with rc cars... having so many battries meet up on a single end point is asking to spark a fire!
soldering does work...but it's resistance that generate heat. the more endpoints you have the more heat ends up being packed in one small location.
Plus the bending can weaken one soldering..if it get hot enough a weakened solder will break up.
it is never reccomanded on rc cars to setup 4 batteries together..even thought some do it.. like 2 packs in parralel and those 2 packs in serial.. the end point going to the esc is going to be stressed badly.
there is a way to wire them properly and this require a board wich all batteries are independently connected to and that board make the desire voltage output . etc..
600 watts on a single endpoint from 4 source is a very bad idea.
reply
Matt
So ive been running a gigabyte 4090 since launch day on a corsair 850watt psu. I run an Ryzen 5950x so the 850w seems ok in my scenario. I an NZXT H510 case and this card barely fits with the connector on the side. I put the minimal bend required on the cable and put the side panel on. I am currently running no overclocks and letting sleeping dogs lie until I can get a cable mods 90 offset adapter. I checked the cable once for burning after the first reports came out but my cable and card are OK. I had done some previous overclocking for benchmarks, and was actually pulling 600w through the connector but not for long durations of time with a sustained load using 600w. For most people their cards will run 450w all the time. Its a design flaw for sure. Cablemods to the rescue
reply
So ive been running a gigabyte 4090 since launch day on a corsair 850watt psu. I run an Ryzen 5950x so the 850w seems ok in my scenario. I an NZXT H510 case and this card barely fits with the connector on the side. I put the minimal bend required on the cable and put the side panel on. I am currently running no overclocks and letting sleeping dogs lie until I can get a cable mods 90 offset adapter. I checked the cable once for burning after the first reports came out but my cable and card are OK. I had done some previous overclocking for benchmarks, and was actually pulling 600w through the connector but not for long durations of time with a sustained load using 600w. For most people their cards will run 450w all the time. Its a design flaw for sure. Cablemods to the rescue
reply
Chubbysumo
the pins are getting hot because of poor contact, and its melting the connector on the internal plug part, not the external part. in all the pictures I can find, the pins themselves are blackened, and the plastic is melted inside the plug port. all the Nvidia adapters are dual spade connectors, aka, they have 2 slots instead of one, get slightly bent outward when you plug it in, and have poor contact.
i suspect that some of the connectors are up to snuff and won't fail, but it seems that all the failed connectors are from a single ODM.
reply
the pins are getting hot because of poor contact, and its melting the connector on the internal plug part, not the external part. in all the pictures I can find, the pins themselves are blackened, and the plastic is melted inside the plug port. all the Nvidia adapters are dual spade connectors, aka, they have 2 slots instead of one, get slightly bent outward when you plug it in, and have poor contact.
i suspect that some of the connectors are up to snuff and won't fail, but it seems that all the failed connectors are from a single ODM.
reply
Russ
Just because you don't have a solid conclusion doesn't mean this is wasted effort. This is hugely valuable work and I appreciate your effort to keep the results objective. As we've seen in the past couple weeks, when you have some level of expertise, t's easy to overstep the test results objectively and make broad, sweeping claims based on a small sample size. That type of reporting only serves to hurt both the consumer and the tech industry, so I applaud your consistency in bias-avoidant reporting.
reply
Just because you don't have a solid conclusion doesn't mean this is wasted effort. This is hugely valuable work and I appreciate your effort to keep the results objective. As we've seen in the past couple weeks, when you have some level of expertise, t's easy to overstep the test results objectively and make broad, sweeping claims based on a small sample size. That type of reporting only serves to hurt both the consumer and the tech industry, so I applaud your consistency in bias-avoidant reporting.
reply
vsteel
camera name: Ignis which is the Latin word for fire.
I think the big issue with the cables is there are some out there with manufacturing defects (wrong procedures, wrong components) or someone tried to get by with substandard components to save some money. If the latter they are probably buying the cheapest stuff out there and 150v cable might not be rated to that, maybe it is a 50v cable rated to 75c or some such with mislabeled markings to try and sell crap at a higher price.
reply
camera name: Ignis which is the Latin word for fire.
I think the big issue with the cables is there are some out there with manufacturing defects (wrong procedures, wrong components) or someone tried to get by with substandard components to save some money. If the latter they are probably buying the cheapest stuff out there and 150v cable might not be rated to that, maybe it is a 50v cable rated to 75c or some such with mislabeled markings to try and sell crap at a higher price.
reply
ryguy
the voltage raiting is for the insulation mostly since it will melt with to much current not voltage. thats why wires dont melt when 40,000 volts run thru them just the point where it enters air from the ionization an the sharpest point on the wire. wire capacity is usally watts or more importantly amps. measure the wire diameter with x,y cross-section with a caliper. high voltage scares me as it should. after being a eet student and working near primarys i cringe ay anything over 42v
reply
the voltage raiting is for the insulation mostly since it will melt with to much current not voltage. thats why wires dont melt when 40,000 volts run thru them just the point where it enters air from the ionization an the sharpest point on the wire. wire capacity is usally watts or more importantly amps. measure the wire diameter with x,y cross-section with a caliper. high voltage scares me as it should. after being a eet student and working near primarys i cringe ay anything over 42v
reply
HexerPsy
The Camera of Sauron
The Eye of Sauron
The Thermal Eye of Sauron
Aaah whatever...
Considering the pins melt on the INSIDE, it probably is a contact issue. I tend to agree with Buildzoid's theory on this one.
So in order to check that out, we need GNX-ray imaging :D Nice!
Of course, the 150V vs 300V cable discovery is a major one... and a hard to find one, because these cables are covered, so this info isnt going to show on any of the burnt cable pictures...
reply
The Camera of Sauron
The Eye of Sauron
The Thermal Eye of Sauron
Aaah whatever...
Considering the pins melt on the INSIDE, it probably is a contact issue. I tend to agree with Buildzoid's theory on this one.
So in order to check that out, we need GNX-ray imaging :D Nice!
Of course, the 150V vs 300V cable discovery is a major one... and a hard to find one, because these cables are covered, so this info isnt going to show on any of the burnt cable pictures...
reply
Sun
10:21 Those wires have insufficient solder per IPC-A-610C class 3 and possibly class 2. Class 3 is >75% fillet height, class 2 is >50%. Also the wires were stripped incorrectly leaving damaged insulation. Defect class 2, 3; process indicator class 1. Wire strands do not look damaged.
Am inspector for 'aerospace'. I would've rejected this cable. The connectors don't have enough surface in the solder area for an adequate fillet and the strain relief is trash.
reply
10:21 Those wires have insufficient solder per IPC-A-610C class 3 and possibly class 2. Class 3 is >75% fillet height, class 2 is >50%. Also the wires were stripped incorrectly leaving damaged insulation. Defect class 2, 3; process indicator class 1. Wire strands do not look damaged.
Am inspector for 'aerospace'. I would've rejected this cable. The connectors don't have enough surface in the solder area for an adequate fillet and the strain relief is trash.
reply
Akiwoa
Admit it, you dont like halloween parties, hence why you are there doing video instead :p
For this whole story, i honestly don't understand why Nvidia decided to reunite every power cable into one spot instead of having two connectors and therefore, distribute the load, and avoid problem. That's safer for everyone. I understand they want the slick look like Apple stuff, but some decisions shouldnt be done with the 'it's good looking' idea in mind..
reply
Admit it, you dont like halloween parties, hence why you are there doing video instead :p
For this whole story, i honestly don't understand why Nvidia decided to reunite every power cable into one spot instead of having two connectors and therefore, distribute the load, and avoid problem. That's safer for everyone. I understand they want the slick look like Apple stuff, but some decisions shouldnt be done with the 'it's good looking' idea in mind..
reply
Jon
Another great video, Out of all the reviewer and Labs you have been spot on most often and less prone to Drama - ie unwarranted drama to get clicks or fuel manufactured outrage. and responsible enough to actually test (not just speculate) and go after real problems and addressing and working with companies and highlighting when they do the wrong or right thing.
Extremally good job! and Full recommendations. (From a career computer Engineer)
reply
Another great video, Out of all the reviewer and Labs you have been spot on most often and less prone to Drama - ie unwarranted drama to get clicks or fuel manufactured outrage. and responsible enough to actually test (not just speculate) and go after real problems and addressing and working with companies and highlighting when they do the wrong or right thing.
Extremally good job! and Full recommendations. (From a career computer Engineer)
reply
Chris2008
I m an electrical engineer. When I saw that the wires are soldered to the connecting plate in the connector, I already knew that this is a problem.
Rule number one for any electrical connection: NEVER EVER SOLDER WIRES TOGETHER!!!
EVER!
I would have never approved this connector design.
Soldered outlets are a major reason for house fires. Nvidia obviously did not do any research into this.
reply
I m an electrical engineer. When I saw that the wires are soldered to the connecting plate in the connector, I already knew that this is a problem.
Rule number one for any electrical connection: NEVER EVER SOLDER WIRES TOGETHER!!!
EVER!
I would have never approved this connector design.
Soldered outlets are a major reason for house fires. Nvidia obviously did not do any research into this.
reply
3XOUT
I seriously dread for all of those ppl who just buys PCs. The people who doesn't follow tech news, reviews etc. People who don't build themselves.
That's probably a majority of end users. I used to be one.
If unlucky with their cable, it could end horribly wrong. Nvidia isn't moving anywhere near fast enough on this. I guess lawsuits were deemed less economic threatening than recalling.
reply
I seriously dread for all of those ppl who just buys PCs. The people who doesn't follow tech news, reviews etc. People who don't build themselves.
That's probably a majority of end users. I used to be one.
If unlucky with their cable, it could end horribly wrong. Nvidia isn't moving anywhere near fast enough on this. I guess lawsuits were deemed less economic threatening than recalling.
reply
Matthew
Seems like the plastic connector itself is not fit for purpose. It needs substantially more contact/latch points to stop it being pulled slightly out of the socket on the card. I.e. fix the mechanical engineering part of the problem, rather than the electrical. The electrical issue may not be an issue if you fix the mechanical (the outer edges coming out of contact with the pins).
reply
Seems like the plastic connector itself is not fit for purpose. It needs substantially more contact/latch points to stop it being pulled slightly out of the socket on the card. I.e. fix the mechanical engineering part of the problem, rather than the electrical. The electrical issue may not be an issue if you fix the mechanical (the outer edges coming out of contact with the pins).
reply
Add a review, comment
Other channel videos
