Intel's Biggest Failure in Years: Confirmed Oxidation & Excessive Voltage
video description
Date: 2024-07-24
Related videos
Comments and reviews: 20
Tinvaak
Oxidization would increase resistance hence the demand for more power to push through. Things like Rust or galvanized (zinc oxide), or Brass/Bronze oxidization is for the most part a protective barrier. You can put your multi meter on N.s level resistance (ohms) and still not be able to detect a reading on oxidized parts so in effect the oxidization becomes a resistor or insulator at that small of a size. It's still technically a circuit trace since it's still physically connected.
It could be corrosion if it's intermittent at least part of the connection is working. It wouldn't be the first time that a sterilizing compound like chlorine got in and corroded circuits. We see this at paper mills all the time when it comes to their office electronics. At the micro level it's even more susceptible.
For me it's probably the layering boding compound (aka flux) that was contaminated. It's really the only part that is chemically reactive. Even if the vacuum and argon shielding gas they use was contaminated the oxidization would have spread much further than that.
Companies like to use Oxidization as it sounds less dangerous than Corrosion which people commonly equate to battery acid.
It's more unlikely to be oxidization if more current was added. You still need a reactant to trigger the oxidization reaction. Reactants are like flux or sheltie when it comes to metals and minerals in particular they isolate a reaction.
Intel could try using ultrasonics to breakup the oixidization as a stop gap measure. It's tricky work as not to shatter the silicon substrate. However removing corrosion is a common use for ultrasonics. Cyrix already had this oxidization issue as well so it's not unheard of in the real tech world. However in that era the speeds and thermals were never high enough to trigger much of any issue and you just swapped out the cheap cyrix cpu if it wasn't the soldered on board model.
reply
Oxidization would increase resistance hence the demand for more power to push through. Things like Rust or galvanized (zinc oxide), or Brass/Bronze oxidization is for the most part a protective barrier. You can put your multi meter on N.s level resistance (ohms) and still not be able to detect a reading on oxidized parts so in effect the oxidization becomes a resistor or insulator at that small of a size. It's still technically a circuit trace since it's still physically connected.
It could be corrosion if it's intermittent at least part of the connection is working. It wouldn't be the first time that a sterilizing compound like chlorine got in and corroded circuits. We see this at paper mills all the time when it comes to their office electronics. At the micro level it's even more susceptible.
For me it's probably the layering boding compound (aka flux) that was contaminated. It's really the only part that is chemically reactive. Even if the vacuum and argon shielding gas they use was contaminated the oxidization would have spread much further than that.
Companies like to use Oxidization as it sounds less dangerous than Corrosion which people commonly equate to battery acid.
It's more unlikely to be oxidization if more current was added. You still need a reactant to trigger the oxidization reaction. Reactants are like flux or sheltie when it comes to metals and minerals in particular they isolate a reaction.
Intel could try using ultrasonics to breakup the oixidization as a stop gap measure. It's tricky work as not to shatter the silicon substrate. However removing corrosion is a common use for ultrasonics. Cyrix already had this oxidization issue as well so it's not unheard of in the real tech world. However in that era the speeds and thermals were never high enough to trigger much of any issue and you just swapped out the cheap cyrix cpu if it wasn't the soldered on board model.
reply
Petermanize
What would be the best alternative to an intel 14k The reason I ask is because my 3000 computer was built around intel - only because I dont know AMD well enough to commit to the change, my computer builds were always intel thus I was always familiar with it.
Now knowing the ongoing issues with the cpus of intel, mine is nearing 8 months of lifetime... I am concerned and don't know what to do.
I seriously do not want to consider purchasing components for an AMD computer because of the investment I committed to this one...
I am unable to sell, much less negotiate for a prize on my old computer, where I live. I predict I will face the same issues with this one...
Money is on short supply now, so I would really need advise and wisdom from someone else. I really would like to know what cpu should I get as a backup in case I experience issues At least to buy myself enough time to study and learn about AMD. I am unable to trust intell at all, lost too much money on them, and received this punishment.
I was hoping for this build to last 8-12 years, the disappointment is immeasurable.
reply
What would be the best alternative to an intel 14k The reason I ask is because my 3000 computer was built around intel - only because I dont know AMD well enough to commit to the change, my computer builds were always intel thus I was always familiar with it.
Now knowing the ongoing issues with the cpus of intel, mine is nearing 8 months of lifetime... I am concerned and don't know what to do.
I seriously do not want to consider purchasing components for an AMD computer because of the investment I committed to this one...
I am unable to sell, much less negotiate for a prize on my old computer, where I live. I predict I will face the same issues with this one...
Money is on short supply now, so I would really need advise and wisdom from someone else. I really would like to know what cpu should I get as a backup in case I experience issues At least to buy myself enough time to study and learn about AMD. I am unable to trust intell at all, lost too much money on them, and received this punishment.
I was hoping for this build to last 8-12 years, the disappointment is immeasurable.
reply
jellowiggler
re: all of the new chip announcements and leaks claiming x% better than the competition, or the last gen. My only question is: Under what power profile, and which microcode.
Intel just did a etvb microcode update, now there is another one coming in Aug. They have an entire table of specs attempting to explain what the various power profiles mean, and the only one that is valid is Baseline, because it's the only safe one. Performance and Extreme shouldn't even be covered. Intel CPU benchmarks are just a HUGE mine field now because the outlets are going to have to go back and present their testing with the Baseline profile before the new chips from AMD and Intel come out. That is a lot of work. Hopefully they have all re-done their 13 and 14 gen CPU benches again in prep for the Zen 5 and Arrow Lake launches.
reply
re: all of the new chip announcements and leaks claiming x% better than the competition, or the last gen. My only question is: Under what power profile, and which microcode.
Intel just did a etvb microcode update, now there is another one coming in Aug. They have an entire table of specs attempting to explain what the various power profiles mean, and the only one that is valid is Baseline, because it's the only safe one. Performance and Extreme shouldn't even be covered. Intel CPU benchmarks are just a HUGE mine field now because the outlets are going to have to go back and present their testing with the Baseline profile before the new chips from AMD and Intel come out. That is a lot of work. Hopefully they have all re-done their 13 and 14 gen CPU benches again in prep for the Zen 5 and Arrow Lake launches.
reply
josephoberlander
400W into a small piece of silicon - and expecting it to not suffer from the repeated stress.. who would have guessed
Actually, every engineer, ever. Allowing devices to run until they hit a rev limiter, blow a bypass valve, or are throttled is asking for a dramatically shorter lifespan as a result. Traditional engineering has a 30% safety margin for longevity, but Intel in their race to out-do AMD, apparently ignored that.
Oxidation/poor metallurgy aside.
The fix is to flash every bios and alter Windows Leaving a home user to this is asking for half of the machines to be bricked. And that's IF you can even flash most laptops easily and junk like their Surface.
Also: 5600X is routinely $110-$120 on sale, now. Kind of a DUH choice for the home user to just switch to AMD for their processor.
reply
400W into a small piece of silicon - and expecting it to not suffer from the repeated stress.. who would have guessed
Actually, every engineer, ever. Allowing devices to run until they hit a rev limiter, blow a bypass valve, or are throttled is asking for a dramatically shorter lifespan as a result. Traditional engineering has a 30% safety margin for longevity, but Intel in their race to out-do AMD, apparently ignored that.
Oxidation/poor metallurgy aside.
The fix is to flash every bios and alter Windows Leaving a home user to this is asking for half of the machines to be bricked. And that's IF you can even flash most laptops easily and junk like their Surface.
Also: 5600X is routinely $110-$120 on sale, now. Kind of a DUH choice for the home user to just switch to AMD for their processor.
reply
Destruction52
I have been a AMD consumer since the FX 8350, even though it was a bad chip overall, but it was so cheap and it serve me very well. Since ryzen came out, I have never looked Intel's way, just a few benchmarks but after having the 5600 for 3 years I went a step forward and built a new PC around the AM5 socket as soon as I was able to do it. So far it has been good. Also I tried my first Radeon with the RX 6800 XT, a few crashes here and there, nothing too exagerated since a I don't play that much ranked, just Apex, and now I am enjoying that QHD pairing it with a R5 7600 (will probably upgrade to a X3D when it's possible). It was my first AMD card since having like 5 Nvidia GPUs starting with the 6200 LE from XFX like 18 years ago. Red Team feels good so far, but never a fan boy of neither.
reply
I have been a AMD consumer since the FX 8350, even though it was a bad chip overall, but it was so cheap and it serve me very well. Since ryzen came out, I have never looked Intel's way, just a few benchmarks but after having the 5600 for 3 years I went a step forward and built a new PC around the AM5 socket as soon as I was able to do it. So far it has been good. Also I tried my first Radeon with the RX 6800 XT, a few crashes here and there, nothing too exagerated since a I don't play that much ranked, just Apex, and now I am enjoying that QHD pairing it with a R5 7600 (will probably upgrade to a X3D when it's possible). It was my first AMD card since having like 5 Nvidia GPUs starting with the 6200 LE from XFX like 18 years ago. Red Team feels good so far, but never a fan boy of neither.
reply
gamersnexus
For a long time now, Electronics manufacturers have brought down the quality control of their products. These products are manufactured in such a way that their product lasts few years at the max, so that customers upgrade to their newest product at the earliest. Gone are the days when electronics were built to last a lifetime.
Coming to this issue, both Intel and Motherboard manufacturers are hand in glove. They want to force customers to upgrade every few years like mobile phones.
My motherboard uefi ramped up the voltage of my processor by default. My processor works easily 1.184v but the optimized defaults made sure it ramps upto 1.4v. Thus reducing the life of my cpu. A layman will never check this and will destroy his product within few years.
reply
For a long time now, Electronics manufacturers have brought down the quality control of their products. These products are manufactured in such a way that their product lasts few years at the max, so that customers upgrade to their newest product at the earliest. Gone are the days when electronics were built to last a lifetime.
Coming to this issue, both Intel and Motherboard manufacturers are hand in glove. They want to force customers to upgrade every few years like mobile phones.
My motherboard uefi ramped up the voltage of my processor by default. My processor works easily 1.184v but the optimized defaults made sure it ramps upto 1.4v. Thus reducing the life of my cpu. A layman will never check this and will destroy his product within few years.
reply
Crazyneo2917
So, there was an oxidation issue We, as a small SI, last year faced failures on 13900K processors. We RMA'ed all these processors. The symptoms were different. So, I am assuming Intel found out the oxidation problem and issued a microcode with higher voltage to overcome the 'oxidation problem'. This inturn created a new problem or an undesired side effect of damaging the new chip and causing another set of problems due to higher voltage in certain unchecked scenarios. Especially some games. Remember, the problem became a huge drama once Tekken 8 was launched. Why
Of course, we had issues with 14900K before tekken 8, but until then, we thought something was wrong with our prebuilds.
reply
So, there was an oxidation issue We, as a small SI, last year faced failures on 13900K processors. We RMA'ed all these processors. The symptoms were different. So, I am assuming Intel found out the oxidation problem and issued a microcode with higher voltage to overcome the 'oxidation problem'. This inturn created a new problem or an undesired side effect of damaging the new chip and causing another set of problems due to higher voltage in certain unchecked scenarios. Especially some games. Remember, the problem became a huge drama once Tekken 8 was launched. Why
Of course, we had issues with 14900K before tekken 8, but until then, we thought something was wrong with our prebuilds.
reply
chrisz5z
I have a 14900KS & I'm not really worried about any of this since I've tuned the AC/DC load lines & max current. Haven't had any instability & I don't expect it any time soon. At stock they have these KS's being blasted with voltage to achieve the advertised clocks.
Having said that, there's no excuse for this to be happening. Customers shouldn't HAVE to even enter the BIOs. Hopefully Intel makes good on this & helps those affected...but it's highly unlikely they will do much for the regular consumer & only focus on their OEMs/server customers.
reply
I have a 14900KS & I'm not really worried about any of this since I've tuned the AC/DC load lines & max current. Haven't had any instability & I don't expect it any time soon. At stock they have these KS's being blasted with voltage to achieve the advertised clocks.
Having said that, there's no excuse for this to be happening. Customers shouldn't HAVE to even enter the BIOs. Hopefully Intel makes good on this & helps those affected...but it's highly unlikely they will do much for the regular consumer & only focus on their OEMs/server customers.
reply
corsairpower7520
I've been using Intel since Pentium 4 all the way till now. I have never had a thought of going AMD UNTIL NOW.! I think I'm just done with their BS. I also.... Am not going to sit on this 13700k and HOPE it doesn't have an oxidation issue. It's going back and I'm switching to AMD. Good Job Intel!! I am so fed up with these multibillion dollar companies trying to pull fast ones on us consumers. We are NOT idiots! Stop treating us like we are. I'm also looking at you ASUS. Thanks GamersNexus for putting this out there and making us aware.
reply
I've been using Intel since Pentium 4 all the way till now. I have never had a thought of going AMD UNTIL NOW.! I think I'm just done with their BS. I also.... Am not going to sit on this 13700k and HOPE it doesn't have an oxidation issue. It's going back and I'm switching to AMD. Good Job Intel!! I am so fed up with these multibillion dollar companies trying to pull fast ones on us consumers. We are NOT idiots! Stop treating us like we are. I'm also looking at you ASUS. Thanks GamersNexus for putting this out there and making us aware.
reply
itech
sofar
- Motherboards are intentionally running at maximum power limits without time constraints.
- Motherboards are deliberately setting load line calibration to levels that the VRM can't handle and causes stability issues
- Microcode is overvolting the CPU beyond safe limits.
- Manufacturing errors causing oxidation.
- New CPUs without E cores (to avoid overvolt and reduce ring bus load, ideal for game server users)
- 13th and 14th generation CPUs are unsellable or needs to be heavily discounted on the second hand market
reply
sofar
- Motherboards are intentionally running at maximum power limits without time constraints.
- Motherboards are deliberately setting load line calibration to levels that the VRM can't handle and causes stability issues
- Microcode is overvolting the CPU beyond safe limits.
- Manufacturing errors causing oxidation.
- New CPUs without E cores (to avoid overvolt and reduce ring bus load, ideal for game server users)
- 13th and 14th generation CPUs are unsellable or needs to be heavily discounted on the second hand market
reply
karlos1060
DO NOT update your BIOS to the lastest version like STEVE says in the video IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE ATM! At least Asus and probably other vendors as well have a new microcode released.
HOWEVER that new microcode even puts more VOLTAGE on your CPU then it already gets! ONLY USE IT IF YOU HAVE INSTABILTY ISSUES!
If not wait till mid maugust or later when Intel releases the UPDATED microcode that should be safe for all users! The patch INTEL put out now is to mittigate users that already have stability issues!
reply
DO NOT update your BIOS to the lastest version like STEVE says in the video IF YOU DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE ATM! At least Asus and probably other vendors as well have a new microcode released.
HOWEVER that new microcode even puts more VOLTAGE on your CPU then it already gets! ONLY USE IT IF YOU HAVE INSTABILTY ISSUES!
If not wait till mid maugust or later when Intel releases the UPDATED microcode that should be safe for all users! The patch INTEL put out now is to mittigate users that already have stability issues!
reply
outtheredude
If Intel's issues with 13th and 14th gen is only now coming out, I certainly wouldn't trust a 15th gen scheduled release. It's probably already been taped out, being prototyped and getting ready to be sent to the fabs even as this video comes out.
If Intel wants to stay in the game, they'd better go back to formula and do a complete redesign to eliminate inheriting the issues that 13th and 14th gen has, even if it means a significant delay releasing an otherwise potentially flawed product.
reply
If Intel's issues with 13th and 14th gen is only now coming out, I certainly wouldn't trust a 15th gen scheduled release. It's probably already been taped out, being prototyped and getting ready to be sent to the fabs even as this video comes out.
If Intel wants to stay in the game, they'd better go back to formula and do a complete redesign to eliminate inheriting the issues that 13th and 14th gen has, even if it means a significant delay releasing an otherwise potentially flawed product.
reply
moctarfofana392
Core i5 13600k was released in September 2022, I purchased mine 2 months later in November, so there is a high probability that I have one of those oxidation plagued chips; but I have no way knowing. As Steve said in the what intel needs to do segment, they have to give us a way to determine if we are affected. Right now even if we install micro code update, those of us who bought their chips right after release still have that shadow of oxidation hanging over us.
reply
Core i5 13600k was released in September 2022, I purchased mine 2 months later in November, so there is a high probability that I have one of those oxidation plagued chips; but I have no way knowing. As Steve said in the what intel needs to do segment, they have to give us a way to determine if we are affected. Right now even if we install micro code update, those of us who bought their chips right after release still have that shadow of oxidation hanging over us.
reply
patricks9401
Man, the damage that has been done here is uncountable, not including the corporate side of things but the amount off latest gen intel users complaining about game instability, on new released games, people looking at that and thinking well if they cant run it, I defo cant run it, that's just on steam reviews alone, then you have the corporate side of things, and everything else related to it. Unbelievable.
reply
Man, the damage that has been done here is uncountable, not including the corporate side of things but the amount off latest gen intel users complaining about game instability, on new released games, people looking at that and thinking well if they cant run it, I defo cant run it, that's just on steam reviews alone, then you have the corporate side of things, and everything else related to it. Unbelievable.
reply
Kiyuja
many years ago Intel was the de facto CPU company. Their products were best in class, had the most solid soft- and hardware, amazing BIOS experience, best for gaming, best memory support, amazing white papers and research done, essentially pioneering CPUs for gamers and business alike, even overclockers were happy. It is so brutal to see how hard they fell in the last handful of years...fingers crossed lads
reply
many years ago Intel was the de facto CPU company. Their products were best in class, had the most solid soft- and hardware, amazing BIOS experience, best for gaming, best memory support, amazing white papers and research done, essentially pioneering CPUs for gamers and business alike, even overclockers were happy. It is so brutal to see how hard they fell in the last handful of years...fingers crossed lads
reply
elvo6217
Facts is Intel can't compete with Ryzen CPUs and they went for broke to Overclock their outdated product the past 4 years. To keep pace but can't actually keep up while being safe and durable for the customers. Those CPUs need to but down clocked 10-15% minimum. Older CPUs would last for at least 8 years. And for those to make it anywhere close to that they need to lower voltage and wattage all together
reply
Facts is Intel can't compete with Ryzen CPUs and they went for broke to Overclock their outdated product the past 4 years. To keep pace but can't actually keep up while being safe and durable for the customers. Those CPUs need to but down clocked 10-15% minimum. Older CPUs would last for at least 8 years. And for those to make it anywhere close to that they need to lower voltage and wattage all together
reply
benjoslen4824
Cool. After the huge amount of people that bought up the 13th during the discount lead-up to the 14th (myself included) we now know, they already had identified the problem then and let the retailers sell off all the maybe remaining stock Tf Intel. Amazing marketing approach to boosting AMD sales. I don't wanna think about what corporations this affected and the potential fallout. See: Crowdstrike.
reply
Cool. After the huge amount of people that bought up the 13th during the discount lead-up to the 14th (myself included) we now know, they already had identified the problem then and let the retailers sell off all the maybe remaining stock Tf Intel. Amazing marketing approach to boosting AMD sales. I don't wanna think about what corporations this affected and the potential fallout. See: Crowdstrike.
reply
kyleshuler2929
So forgive me if this is a dumb question, but I'm hearing from this video ALL 13th and 14th gen possibly has this defect Earlier reporting had me under the impression that it was just i9 and i7 skus that were potentially defective. Sounds like potentially the i5 aswell then, yes
Shattered my delusion that I might get to skate on by lol. Oh well, was going ryzen on my next PC anyways.
reply
So forgive me if this is a dumb question, but I'm hearing from this video ALL 13th and 14th gen possibly has this defect Earlier reporting had me under the impression that it was just i9 and i7 skus that were potentially defective. Sounds like potentially the i5 aswell then, yes
Shattered my delusion that I might get to skate on by lol. Oh well, was going ryzen on my next PC anyways.
reply
techloidtech2051
Nah, this should be a total recall. There's countless things that could go wrong with botched CPUs floating around on the market, you have no idea what systems that cpu is managing. And I want Intel held as liable as possible, they've obviously known and have been hiding it for a while. I wouldn't buy another Intel cpu and until there is a full recall, refund, and admittance of guilt.
reply
Nah, this should be a total recall. There's countless things that could go wrong with botched CPUs floating around on the market, you have no idea what systems that cpu is managing. And I want Intel held as liable as possible, they've obviously known and have been hiding it for a while. I wouldn't buy another Intel cpu and until there is a full recall, refund, and admittance of guilt.
reply
Anii6969
Well glad to hear its not just my CPU. I thought I got a defective one but must be alot since its a early 13th gen i7. What works for me is lowering the performance core clock to 50x instead of the stock 54ghz its set at. But it will still crash playing Call of duty and anything heavy CPU related. Very annoying and if they don't fix it or give me a RMA i'll be going to AMD in the future.
reply
Well glad to hear its not just my CPU. I thought I got a defective one but must be alot since its a early 13th gen i7. What works for me is lowering the performance core clock to 50x instead of the stock 54ghz its set at. But it will still crash playing Call of duty and anything heavy CPU related. Very annoying and if they don't fix it or give me a RMA i'll be going to AMD in the future.
reply
Add a review, comment
Other channel videos
