AMD Delays Ryzen 9000: Did Not Meet Quality Expectations
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Date: 2024-07-25
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Comments and reviews: 20
Royameadow
As I have been mentioning in recent times, the many troubles that we are witnessing are all the end result of Pluto Retrograde being in Aquarius, I do not believe that everything we have experienced during this astrological phase (the Zotac and MSI RMA Gigaleak, Intel's Raptor Lake Oxidation, AMD and Nvidia's delay of Granite Ridge and Blackwell, the CrowdStrike Incident, and even certain issues with Seagate Desktop HDD units from 20I5 witnessing Power Failures brought on potentially by faults in Windows 0II; the latter, I've been trying to get more information on, as I also started experiencing it First Hand with one of my units from that era, during my analysis in June) is Unscripted due to the nature of how Pluto in Aquarius (also known as The Age of Aquarius) impacts major hardware innovations and knowing this detail truly has forced many people to become incredibly vigilant in ways that were not as extremely necessary when the planet was still residing fulltime in Capricorn.
It must be noted too that Pluto will return into Capricorn on September 03 and will remain in the sign until November 0I9, from then onwards it will remain in Aquarius until January 020 of 2044 (this includes Retrogrades that overlap with Pisces) and any relevant chaos that we are witnessing should be no longer an issue (at least nowhere near as bad as we have been witnessing) as we enter the Age of Aquarius proper; although Pluto will get back to Stationary Direct on October 0II, the fact that many major companies and even media outlets are holding off on releasing their major projects until well after it returns into Aquarius (in this case, many are waiting until at least CES 2025, north of One and a Half Months after reentering) shows me that many do take the elements of Astrology seriously and the added impact of the upcoming Mercury Retrograde in Virgo on August 05 (we've already been in the Retrograde Zone (Rx Zone) since July 0I6) forecasting that everybody will need to engage in a few weeks of polish before we can all deliver our major evolutions to the masses is ultimately a healthy safety net, we need more people in the industry who are willing to be this highly aware of their surroundings and overprepared for instances such as this as it will truly make or break their impact and products and seeing AMD follow suit on this gives me certainty that either Lisa or somebody high up the stack recognizes its importance as a means to keep everything running stable from the getgo at launch.
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As I have been mentioning in recent times, the many troubles that we are witnessing are all the end result of Pluto Retrograde being in Aquarius, I do not believe that everything we have experienced during this astrological phase (the Zotac and MSI RMA Gigaleak, Intel's Raptor Lake Oxidation, AMD and Nvidia's delay of Granite Ridge and Blackwell, the CrowdStrike Incident, and even certain issues with Seagate Desktop HDD units from 20I5 witnessing Power Failures brought on potentially by faults in Windows 0II; the latter, I've been trying to get more information on, as I also started experiencing it First Hand with one of my units from that era, during my analysis in June) is Unscripted due to the nature of how Pluto in Aquarius (also known as The Age of Aquarius) impacts major hardware innovations and knowing this detail truly has forced many people to become incredibly vigilant in ways that were not as extremely necessary when the planet was still residing fulltime in Capricorn.
It must be noted too that Pluto will return into Capricorn on September 03 and will remain in the sign until November 0I9, from then onwards it will remain in Aquarius until January 020 of 2044 (this includes Retrogrades that overlap with Pisces) and any relevant chaos that we are witnessing should be no longer an issue (at least nowhere near as bad as we have been witnessing) as we enter the Age of Aquarius proper; although Pluto will get back to Stationary Direct on October 0II, the fact that many major companies and even media outlets are holding off on releasing their major projects until well after it returns into Aquarius (in this case, many are waiting until at least CES 2025, north of One and a Half Months after reentering) shows me that many do take the elements of Astrology seriously and the added impact of the upcoming Mercury Retrograde in Virgo on August 05 (we've already been in the Retrograde Zone (Rx Zone) since July 0I6) forecasting that everybody will need to engage in a few weeks of polish before we can all deliver our major evolutions to the masses is ultimately a healthy safety net, we need more people in the industry who are willing to be this highly aware of their surroundings and overprepared for instances such as this as it will truly make or break their impact and products and seeing AMD follow suit on this gives me certainty that either Lisa or somebody high up the stack recognizes its importance as a means to keep everything running stable from the getgo at launch.
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Loki_Firegod
I wouldn't be too surprised if this issue, in due time, turned out to be either minute or even non-existent.
Don't get me wrong, be it hardware or games, I'd always take a delay over a bad launch. With hardware I think it's less of an issue, but anyone remember when it was seen as really bad when games weren't good (or finished) at launch You know, back in the 2000s when you bought a game and it pretty much... worked
So, whether this issue is actually a big problem or just let's make REALLY sure they all perform - I think it's a stroke of genius from a marketing perspective. Because while Intel is publicly demonstrating how not to deal with issues - having known of stability problems and more for months and only now starting to act on it after the media put pressure on them - AMD has seen and instantly taken an opportunity to show 'we're dealing with issues straight away and we're also handling them transparently'.
Honestly, they saw a golden opportunity and grabbed it. And I don't mind that at all - either way, we're getting a solid product (albeit a couple of days later).
I've said it a few times already, I'm quite happy I switched from Intel to AMD a few PCs back. Must be about 10-13 years now, not too sure on the exact time. Either way, despite a few minor hiccups during that time, I think AMD has gone from good to very good, both performance-wise as well as in how they handle issues; all the while Intel appears to have relied mostly on their market dominance.
I can only hope that AMD takes a big chunk out of Intel's market shares, just to teach them a bit of a lesson. Anyway, I'll happily wait for the new CPUs to release and be tested, and then later this year or early next year I'll have to see whether my next system will run on a Ryzen 7000 or 9000 CPU (also depending on price-performance value).
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I wouldn't be too surprised if this issue, in due time, turned out to be either minute or even non-existent.
Don't get me wrong, be it hardware or games, I'd always take a delay over a bad launch. With hardware I think it's less of an issue, but anyone remember when it was seen as really bad when games weren't good (or finished) at launch You know, back in the 2000s when you bought a game and it pretty much... worked
So, whether this issue is actually a big problem or just let's make REALLY sure they all perform - I think it's a stroke of genius from a marketing perspective. Because while Intel is publicly demonstrating how not to deal with issues - having known of stability problems and more for months and only now starting to act on it after the media put pressure on them - AMD has seen and instantly taken an opportunity to show 'we're dealing with issues straight away and we're also handling them transparently'.
Honestly, they saw a golden opportunity and grabbed it. And I don't mind that at all - either way, we're getting a solid product (albeit a couple of days later).
I've said it a few times already, I'm quite happy I switched from Intel to AMD a few PCs back. Must be about 10-13 years now, not too sure on the exact time. Either way, despite a few minor hiccups during that time, I think AMD has gone from good to very good, both performance-wise as well as in how they handle issues; all the while Intel appears to have relied mostly on their market dominance.
I can only hope that AMD takes a big chunk out of Intel's market shares, just to teach them a bit of a lesson. Anyway, I'll happily wait for the new CPUs to release and be tested, and then later this year or early next year I'll have to see whether my next system will run on a Ryzen 7000 or 9000 CPU (also depending on price-performance value).
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nmrnm137
I don't understand why people are talking about the August 15 date for the Intel microcode update as if the update would make it to people's hands by that date, or even reviewers' hands really. All Intel has promised is that they're shipping the microcode update to motherboard vendors by that time. After that, it'll still be a week or two, before the motherboard vendors can even put out a beta BIOS that has the microcode update in it, which hopefully can be distributed to reviewers. But then reviewers are still going to have to put a big caveat on the performance saying that it's a beta BIOS and not fully tested (even though differences from a beta to a supposed release quality version are probably nonexistent).
All I'm saying is that you're probably not going to see updated microcode on August 15. Intel may have it ready, and delivered to OEMs, but you won't have it for another two weeks or so.
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I don't understand why people are talking about the August 15 date for the Intel microcode update as if the update would make it to people's hands by that date, or even reviewers' hands really. All Intel has promised is that they're shipping the microcode update to motherboard vendors by that time. After that, it'll still be a week or two, before the motherboard vendors can even put out a beta BIOS that has the microcode update in it, which hopefully can be distributed to reviewers. But then reviewers are still going to have to put a big caveat on the performance saying that it's a beta BIOS and not fully tested (even though differences from a beta to a supposed release quality version are probably nonexistent).
All I'm saying is that you're probably not going to see updated microcode on August 15. Intel may have it ready, and delivered to OEMs, but you won't have it for another two weeks or so.
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paullitzbarski2632
Intel's microcode patch WON'T fix CPUs who are affected with this problem, they wrote so (see der 8auer's video). It's because the higher voltage causes electron migration so that e.g. copper atoms are taken by electrons and deposed / accumulated somewhere else which creates bottlenecks in the electric lines. The patch does however lower the ageing of the CPU. Also it will NOT necessarily lower the performance, since it was the voltage regulation that was affected, NOT the frequency regulation - on the contrary, it possibly could mean that the CPUs could be faster because the too high voltage meant that more heat was produced because more current was flowing without need. So now with proper voltage regulation it could mean that there is more headroom for the maximum heat target and thus it could run with higher frequencies.
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Intel's microcode patch WON'T fix CPUs who are affected with this problem, they wrote so (see der 8auer's video). It's because the higher voltage causes electron migration so that e.g. copper atoms are taken by electrons and deposed / accumulated somewhere else which creates bottlenecks in the electric lines. The patch does however lower the ageing of the CPU. Also it will NOT necessarily lower the performance, since it was the voltage regulation that was affected, NOT the frequency regulation - on the contrary, it possibly could mean that the CPUs could be faster because the too high voltage meant that more heat was produced because more current was flowing without need. So now with proper voltage regulation it could mean that there is more headroom for the maximum heat target and thus it could run with higher frequencies.
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Qyngali
If anything, comparing Intel's and AMD's handling here AMD comes up on top from a reputation perspective. While Intel didn't disclose the oxidation issue until up 18 months later, and still haven't fixed the instability issues. We won't know if Intel's solution with the microcode will fix all the issues in at least 2 months after release, while AMD addressed their issue before launch. Would you take for granted that there will be no more stability issues on 14th. gen Intel right after Intel releases the microcode I sure as hell won't. I would wait AT LEAST 2 months for the server providers etc. to report no more issues before even considering Intel. Why take the risk
Though I wouldn't buy Ryzen 9000 before reviews land either.
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If anything, comparing Intel's and AMD's handling here AMD comes up on top from a reputation perspective. While Intel didn't disclose the oxidation issue until up 18 months later, and still haven't fixed the instability issues. We won't know if Intel's solution with the microcode will fix all the issues in at least 2 months after release, while AMD addressed their issue before launch. Would you take for granted that there will be no more stability issues on 14th. gen Intel right after Intel releases the microcode I sure as hell won't. I would wait AT LEAST 2 months for the server providers etc. to report no more issues before even considering Intel. Why take the risk
Though I wouldn't buy Ryzen 9000 before reviews land either.
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kurosumomo
Have you considered it might just be a packaging issue, problems with IHS placement, glue, missing stickers, papers in the box, misprints or similar things Does not necessary have to be a logic issue with the silicon itself. If it's a logic issue, they would have known of it prior to announcing the launch dates as 31st July, and likely wouldn't ship a defective batch to the retailers only to then pull it back a month later. Or if they didn't know about the logic issue until few days ago, how would the next batch be fixed and ready in two weeks time Shipping alone can and does take longer than two weeks. But I might be kicking in the air here with my theories.
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Have you considered it might just be a packaging issue, problems with IHS placement, glue, missing stickers, papers in the box, misprints or similar things Does not necessary have to be a logic issue with the silicon itself. If it's a logic issue, they would have known of it prior to announcing the launch dates as 31st July, and likely wouldn't ship a defective batch to the retailers only to then pull it back a month later. Or if they didn't know about the logic issue until few days ago, how would the next batch be fixed and ready in two weeks time Shipping alone can and does take longer than two weeks. But I might be kicking in the air here with my theories.
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FrancisFjordCupola
We're not living in times where new generations totally obsolete the previous ones out of the box. Reviewers rave over double digit improvements, but we used to have double or triple performance gains. Delaying a generation for a bit hardly matters. Especially because now computer hardware can stay relevant a great deal of time more and live longer in our boxes. So we need hardware that does what it has to do and stay alive. That's much more important. Also the slowing down of performance gains is good; instead of buying new hardware time and time again, we can use that money for other things.
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We're not living in times where new generations totally obsolete the previous ones out of the box. Reviewers rave over double digit improvements, but we used to have double or triple performance gains. Delaying a generation for a bit hardly matters. Especially because now computer hardware can stay relevant a great deal of time more and live longer in our boxes. So we need hardware that does what it has to do and stay alive. That's much more important. Also the slowing down of performance gains is good; instead of buying new hardware time and time again, we can use that money for other things.
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_BullsEyeBob
My trust in these companies is completely broken. The amount of deception, trickery and flat out withholding of crucial information is becoming so commonplace it is ridiculous. From benchmarks done using absurd hardware configurations to flat out lying about a products performance to plugging their ears and going lalalalalalaaa we don’t acknowledge those facts until forced to do so by reviewers, the trust is gone. I ain’t buying a ticket for future hype trains until after the products are reviewed by GN and other reputable hardware reviewers, period.
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My trust in these companies is completely broken. The amount of deception, trickery and flat out withholding of crucial information is becoming so commonplace it is ridiculous. From benchmarks done using absurd hardware configurations to flat out lying about a products performance to plugging their ears and going lalalalalalaaa we don’t acknowledge those facts until forced to do so by reviewers, the trust is gone. I ain’t buying a ticket for future hype trains until after the products are reviewed by GN and other reputable hardware reviewers, period.
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colbyconner3206
I do validation for automotive chips and the timeline doesn’t surprise me too much. I’d speculate that there’s a process parameter that’s causing issues and wasn’t being reliably caught by the testers. So when validation does the last bulk unit screen on production parts, before launch, some units pop up bad and they have to raise a red flag. The failure rate also needs to be high enough that C-suite doesn’t think they can brush it under a rug. Chances are they updated the testers to catch the issue and affected parts will be binned down.
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I do validation for automotive chips and the timeline doesn’t surprise me too much. I’d speculate that there’s a process parameter that’s causing issues and wasn’t being reliably caught by the testers. So when validation does the last bulk unit screen on production parts, before launch, some units pop up bad and they have to raise a red flag. The failure rate also needs to be high enough that C-suite doesn’t think they can brush it under a rug. Chances are they updated the testers to catch the issue and affected parts will be binned down.
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SirThanksalott
Steve you won't say it and it's understandable why. These CPUs processes have been designed and tested months, or even years ahead of time, and they are more than ready. Any unit can fail testing depending on how testing is performed so they can always produce a reason. The excuse for Quality Expectations is that AMD are waiting to see the market impact Intel generates for them so they can control production costs, marketing costs, and maximize their profits. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just how humans do banana monkey business.
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Steve you won't say it and it's understandable why. These CPUs processes have been designed and tested months, or even years ahead of time, and they are more than ready. Any unit can fail testing depending on how testing is performed so they can always produce a reason. The excuse for Quality Expectations is that AMD are waiting to see the market impact Intel generates for them so they can control production costs, marketing costs, and maximize their profits. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just how humans do banana monkey business.
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TheTaurus104
There was an update on TheVerge that stated that the CPUs themselves were not affected by a problem, but that the test procedure was partly incorrect or was carried out incorrectly.
The recall and associated postponement are not because AMD found any faults with the CPUs themselves, AMD spokeswoman Stacy MacDiarmid told The Verge. Rather, AMD determined that some of the chips did not go through all proper testing procedures, and the company wants to make sure they do - hence the recall.
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There was an update on TheVerge that stated that the CPUs themselves were not affected by a problem, but that the test procedure was partly incorrect or was carried out incorrectly.
The recall and associated postponement are not because AMD found any faults with the CPUs themselves, AMD spokeswoman Stacy MacDiarmid told The Verge. Rather, AMD determined that some of the chips did not go through all proper testing procedures, and the company wants to make sure they do - hence the recall.
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Dygear
Is this an TMSC problem in general Because it sounds like they are having a similar problem as Intel with the manufacturing of the chips as they are outright replacing them. So the real question is ... Could someone (please) get their hands on one of these and see what is actually going on. Something in the water perhaps Sun Microsystems had a bug because their memory was accidentally eradiated during manufacture flipping bits. Intel and AMD having a bug at the same time is very odd.
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Is this an TMSC problem in general Because it sounds like they are having a similar problem as Intel with the manufacturing of the chips as they are outright replacing them. So the real question is ... Could someone (please) get their hands on one of these and see what is actually going on. Something in the water perhaps Sun Microsystems had a bug because their memory was accidentally eradiated during manufacture flipping bits. Intel and AMD having a bug at the same time is very odd.
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eX_Arkangel
said repeatedly by other, its just a catching game, Intel gets caught in the extreme out of the BOX OC to stay competent for the last 2 gens, then stalls to wait for Zen5 launch to release a mitigation/fix (which will cost them performance no matter what), and AMD obviously seen this decides to wait for the fix to release the new Gen, and get the reviews to compared them against the newest Intel Basic Baseline Safe Profile.
Classic cat and mouse situation.
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said repeatedly by other, its just a catching game, Intel gets caught in the extreme out of the BOX OC to stay competent for the last 2 gens, then stalls to wait for Zen5 launch to release a mitigation/fix (which will cost them performance no matter what), and AMD obviously seen this decides to wait for the fix to release the new Gen, and get the reviews to compared them against the newest Intel Basic Baseline Safe Profile.
Classic cat and mouse situation.
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gamersnexus
i would rather have a delay than a bad cpu or not working as intended cpu, so in my eyes AMD did the right thing.
Edit: also another question i would have in mind, a fun idea is AMD sending a good and bad CPU to reviews to compare performance of what would happen if they did not delay. would have been interesting to see, and a possible win over intell as a we catch our problems and do the right thing kinda move.
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i would rather have a delay than a bad cpu or not working as intended cpu, so in my eyes AMD did the right thing.
Edit: also another question i would have in mind, a fun idea is AMD sending a good and bad CPU to reviews to compare performance of what would happen if they did not delay. would have been interesting to see, and a possible win over intell as a we catch our problems and do the right thing kinda move.
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Roundhead75
I said to my wife about 2 years ago, when companies start DEI hiring practices , every company and product will start to degrade over time , literally everything is sub par now days thanks to companies hiring on race and gender , leaving actual qualified people on the side lines. This will continue to happen and everyone will blame every thing but the real problem of hiring people who do not deserve it.
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I said to my wife about 2 years ago, when companies start DEI hiring practices , every company and product will start to degrade over time , literally everything is sub par now days thanks to companies hiring on race and gender , leaving actual qualified people on the side lines. This will continue to happen and everyone will blame every thing but the real problem of hiring people who do not deserve it.
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ahunter316
... Amd knows it is in the lead, they want to be perceieved as the good guys, and the new cpus don't have any problems, and they are delaying purely for marketing reasons. In a few weeks they can then say that they have tested the new cpus, they are fully validated, and they are even better than they expected, faster, better computes per cycle, more stable, and lower power consumption. Power move.
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... Amd knows it is in the lead, they want to be perceieved as the good guys, and the new cpus don't have any problems, and they are delaying purely for marketing reasons. In a few weeks they can then say that they have tested the new cpus, they are fully validated, and they are even better than they expected, faster, better computes per cycle, more stable, and lower power consumption. Power move.
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jasony8480
nebulous problem
Makes me think AMD had previously accepted some questionable units in the product stream (edge cases, maybe fine), but with Intel falling on its face somebody high up decided to spend the money to capitalize on this as much as possible (good move from my perspective). Theoretically we should have as good a product launch from AMD as we could possible get, at least quality wise.
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nebulous problem
Makes me think AMD had previously accepted some questionable units in the product stream (edge cases, maybe fine), but with Intel falling on its face somebody high up decided to spend the money to capitalize on this as much as possible (good move from my perspective). Theoretically we should have as good a product launch from AMD as we could possible get, at least quality wise.
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dillon4813
Whether or not its true, its the biggest PR move to do lol. Intel has problemsw ith their cpus they knew about, they dont say anything and sell them still. If AMD finds a problem, they dont release the cpus until they fix it. Making a point, a good point lol. EVEN if I was AMD and my cpus were fine, I would still send out this statement to let people know Intel rips you off, we dont.
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Whether or not its true, its the biggest PR move to do lol. Intel has problemsw ith their cpus they knew about, they dont say anything and sell them still. If AMD finds a problem, they dont release the cpus until they fix it. Making a point, a good point lol. EVEN if I was AMD and my cpus were fine, I would still send out this statement to let people know Intel rips you off, we dont.
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KaVaKaZi
They basically saw Intel's huge F Up and were like Maybe its better if we do not use that cheap component we use and expected customers to not notice. Let's make sure our chips won't fail like Intel's. That will make us number one for sure. Im looking at a brand new in package 7800x3d on my desk waiting for the rest of my first game pc to arrive. Im good for a while anyway.
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They basically saw Intel's huge F Up and were like Maybe its better if we do not use that cheap component we use and expected customers to not notice. Let's make sure our chips won't fail like Intel's. That will make us number one for sure. Im looking at a brand new in package 7800x3d on my desk waiting for the rest of my first game pc to arrive. Im good for a while anyway.
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KoeiNL
15 days Who cares Intel just showed they knew about issues with their CPUs over a year ago and didn't act on it, and by doing that they let the market know to wait at least a year after launch before buying any of their products if you want to be sure they have no known issues. Products can always fail and have issues, but sitting on them for over a year is just ridiculous.
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15 days Who cares Intel just showed they knew about issues with their CPUs over a year ago and didn't act on it, and by doing that they let the market know to wait at least a year after launch before buying any of their products if you want to be sure they have no known issues. Products can always fail and have issues, but sitting on them for over a year is just ridiculous.
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