Micro-ATX Comeback: Thermaltake Tower 200, Rotated CTE C700, & Ceres 300
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Date: 2023-06-03
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Comments and reviews: 14
Xaytana
Hey GN team, do you know if the various case companies have CFDs that they'd be willing to share? I'd be interested in seeing a flow analysis for various cases, especially the atypical cases like the Tower 200 with the glass front, especially if the water loop as intake rather than exhaust, just to see what the expected airlfow would be in that kind of usecase.
I'd also be curious about something else, all of these cases with choked-off bottom fans, could a potential solution be an externally-mounted diagonal, radial-in axial-out, fan? I could see other usecases for this, like when cases had blocked off fronts with inlets from the sides on the front fascia, any time a system is butted up against a wall, etc. Similarly the opposite diagonal, axial-in radial-out, could also see its own usecases, such as exhaust in the same situations. I know they're fairly atypical, outside of very slim blower fans except implementation here is a bit apples to oranges, and there's not really any on the market, but I'd be interested in seeing if something like this could be a theoretical fix for many bad case designs or design oversights, or even just as a solution for atypical design or implementation. I think they could have a valid place, though a niche place, within the market given the variability of cases and implementations.
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Hey GN team, do you know if the various case companies have CFDs that they'd be willing to share? I'd be interested in seeing a flow analysis for various cases, especially the atypical cases like the Tower 200 with the glass front, especially if the water loop as intake rather than exhaust, just to see what the expected airlfow would be in that kind of usecase.
I'd also be curious about something else, all of these cases with choked-off bottom fans, could a potential solution be an externally-mounted diagonal, radial-in axial-out, fan? I could see other usecases for this, like when cases had blocked off fronts with inlets from the sides on the front fascia, any time a system is butted up against a wall, etc. Similarly the opposite diagonal, axial-in radial-out, could also see its own usecases, such as exhaust in the same situations. I know they're fairly atypical, outside of very slim blower fans except implementation here is a bit apples to oranges, and there's not really any on the market, but I'd be interested in seeing if something like this could be a theoretical fix for many bad case designs or design oversights, or even just as a solution for atypical design or implementation. I think they could have a valid place, though a niche place, within the market given the variability of cases and implementations.
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Joseph
With the crazy sizes of video cards nowadays, I would not be surprised to start seeing more mATX boards. A little more real estate is maybe not desired for PCIe gen 5 nor DDR5 signaling, but a gen 4 port or two might still be useful for adding a faster NIC or a storage controller for homelab builds which might use a more modest (or no) dGPU, and even if you're not thinking about those customers there's a lot of components that do not need PCIe gen 5 speeds like the various USB 3.x controllers without thunderbolt/USB4 support, system audio, SMBus/I2C, RGB controllers, and relatively lower-current higher-voltage power circuitry (if ATX12V0 ever happens? Or for USB-PD? Or just for powering fans and blinkenlights?)
I still have a Thermaltake mATX case in service. It's a mesh-fronted case, the Versa H18. Got it because it was cheap and while the thermal needs of the system were fairly LOL, the case is MORE than up to the task. It's an offline only retro Windows XP gaming box with cheap Windows 7 hardware that has to be artificially hobbled in several places to even lazily run XP Pro and its games. Because they don't even run right/at all on newer systems.
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With the crazy sizes of video cards nowadays, I would not be surprised to start seeing more mATX boards. A little more real estate is maybe not desired for PCIe gen 5 nor DDR5 signaling, but a gen 4 port or two might still be useful for adding a faster NIC or a storage controller for homelab builds which might use a more modest (or no) dGPU, and even if you're not thinking about those customers there's a lot of components that do not need PCIe gen 5 speeds like the various USB 3.x controllers without thunderbolt/USB4 support, system audio, SMBus/I2C, RGB controllers, and relatively lower-current higher-voltage power circuitry (if ATX12V0 ever happens? Or for USB-PD? Or just for powering fans and blinkenlights?)
I still have a Thermaltake mATX case in service. It's a mesh-fronted case, the Versa H18. Got it because it was cheap and while the thermal needs of the system were fairly LOL, the case is MORE than up to the task. It's an offline only retro Windows XP gaming box with cheap Windows 7 hardware that has to be artificially hobbled in several places to even lazily run XP Pro and its games. Because they don't even run right/at all on newer systems.
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Joshua
I kinda want the Tower 200. Also I've been saying it basically ever since the current crop of superhuge three and four slot graphics cards came out.
MicroATX needs a lot more lovin'. It's basically the perfect size to fit these cards, especially in a conventional, air cooled layout.
I've got a large tower cooler (Mugen 5) and a full size XFX RX 6950XT, and still even have room for a small PCIe card in the fourth slot.
Had I not chosen a motherboard with an m.2 WiFi already on it, I'd use that slot for wifi. As it stands I'll probably put a USB riser in it or something.
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I kinda want the Tower 200. Also I've been saying it basically ever since the current crop of superhuge three and four slot graphics cards came out.
MicroATX needs a lot more lovin'. It's basically the perfect size to fit these cards, especially in a conventional, air cooled layout.
I've got a large tower cooler (Mugen 5) and a full size XFX RX 6950XT, and still even have room for a small PCIe card in the fourth slot.
Had I not chosen a motherboard with an m.2 WiFi already on it, I'd use that slot for wifi. As it stands I'll probably put a USB riser in it or something.
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Ryster's
I do have a Versa H22 for my diy build. It is so stifled for front intake thanks to a lack of vents thanks to the 3 5.25 bays and many more internal drive cages. It does have 2x120mm fans and a mesh front panel but the hdd/ssd cages block all the airflow. It also doesn't fit a nhu-12s redux or other 120mm coolers... Its just an out-dated design. Their newer more forward thinking products do look alot more appealing to me, even though i do use 5.25 inch drive for hdd hot swap bays.
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I do have a Versa H22 for my diy build. It is so stifled for front intake thanks to a lack of vents thanks to the 3 5.25 bays and many more internal drive cages. It does have 2x120mm fans and a mesh front panel but the hdd/ssd cages block all the airflow. It also doesn't fit a nhu-12s redux or other 120mm coolers... Its just an out-dated design. Their newer more forward thinking products do look alot more appealing to me, even though i do use 5.25 inch drive for hdd hot swap bays.
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Andy96
I'm not very impressed with any of those cases. If you're going to go for big cases, it better look really nice, have unique features and be very convenient to build in. If you're going to go small, then you gotta go as small as you can while having your case support as big a GPU as possible. That tower200 thingy doesn't have the cuteness of small builds, nor does it look all that aesthetically appealing, nor does it give me the feeling that it'd fit a 4090, I dont know.
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I'm not very impressed with any of those cases. If you're going to go for big cases, it better look really nice, have unique features and be very convenient to build in. If you're going to go small, then you gotta go as small as you can while having your case support as big a GPU as possible. That tower200 thingy doesn't have the cuteness of small builds, nor does it look all that aesthetically appealing, nor does it give me the feeling that it'd fit a 4090, I dont know.
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El
To be honest, i never understood - and still don't understand - how it came to be that mATX did not become the standard form factor for the DIY market once it the vast majority of people started to use one expansion card (GPU) only (basically when SLI and Crossfire stopped to be a thing people used...).
I find it truly bizarre that the DIY market is still dominated by ATX motherboards but barely anyone is using more than a single expansion card.
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To be honest, i never understood - and still don't understand - how it came to be that mATX did not become the standard form factor for the DIY market once it the vast majority of people started to use one expansion card (GPU) only (basically when SLI and Crossfire stopped to be a thing people used...).
I find it truly bizarre that the DIY market is still dominated by ATX motherboards but barely anyone is using more than a single expansion card.
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Godly
Can someone please explain Micro (and the variants there in) case size? I honestly don't get it. If you want to build a totally open rig, it makes sense, if you want great airflow you can go to a full tower. What is the draw for micro cases? I ask this out of genuine ignorance, because there's clearly a market for it; however, price can't be the predicate here, surely. I'm just baffled.
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Can someone please explain Micro (and the variants there in) case size? I honestly don't get it. If you want to build a totally open rig, it makes sense, if you want great airflow you can go to a full tower. What is the draw for micro cases? I ask this out of genuine ignorance, because there's clearly a market for it; however, price can't be the predicate here, surely. I'm just baffled.
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Temporal
Not to blow smoke, but you know, you guys gaining enough popularity in the tech news business to actually affect product design like this... It's awesome. You guys have stayed honest and careful with your content for so long, and Steve is such a fun and informative host - You deserve signs of success like this one. And gamers deserve better PC airflow and reasonable acoustics
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Not to blow smoke, but you know, you guys gaining enough popularity in the tech news business to actually affect product design like this... It's awesome. You guys have stayed honest and careful with your content for so long, and Steve is such a fun and informative host - You deserve signs of success like this one. And gamers deserve better PC airflow and reasonable acoustics
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Kalimero
Having a tower 100 case i always wondered why they put half glass on sides instead of full mesh/grid, doubt side panel from the 200 will be retro compatible ( or even available separately ) but glad to see they made this choice, also ++ for the bigger watercooler rad disposition. With massive GPU we are having now i really think vertical mount is the way to go.
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Having a tower 100 case i always wondered why they put half glass on sides instead of full mesh/grid, doubt side panel from the 200 will be retro compatible ( or even available separately ) but glad to see they made this choice, also ++ for the bigger watercooler rad disposition. With massive GPU we are having now i really think vertical mount is the way to go.
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Wesley
I know this will probably get lost in the comments but can you please take a look at GPU thermals when in that vertical configuration like with the tower series cases. I tried a tower 500 but my 3080 Ti FTW3 would heat up out of control - titled the case on its side and back to normal thermals. Wondering if this was a one off or something with higher power GPU's.
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I know this will probably get lost in the comments but can you please take a look at GPU thermals when in that vertical configuration like with the tower series cases. I tried a tower 500 but my 3080 Ti FTW3 would heat up out of control - titled the case on its side and back to normal thermals. Wondering if this was a one off or something with higher power GPU's.
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Erik
Really liking this trend of just giving the GPU fans direct access to fresh, outside air. The next step should be an isolated compartment for the GPU, to be connected via riser cable, inside of which would be a pair of exhaust fans dedicated to doing nothing but removing the 400w+ of heat these insane GPUs are pulling these days.
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Really liking this trend of just giving the GPU fans direct access to fresh, outside air. The next step should be an isolated compartment for the GPU, to be connected via riser cable, inside of which would be a pair of exhaust fans dedicated to doing nothing but removing the 400w+ of heat these insane GPUs are pulling these days.
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Teardown
The recessed fan is probably just to give air 2mm of clearance between the filter and fan to flow even out across more of the filter surface area. If the bottom was flat with the filter directly on top, half of the filter would be dead space on the metal mesh and dust would completely clog it twice as fast.
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The recessed fan is probably just to give air 2mm of clearance between the filter and fan to flow even out across more of the filter surface area. If the bottom was flat with the filter directly on top, half of the filter would be dead space on the metal mesh and dust would completely clog it twice as fast.
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BeetleBuns
the Tower 200 is mini-itx, not micro atx if I'm remembering correctly. Edit: just read the description, pretty hyped that it also fits mATX, less hyped because I just bought the tower 500 last week because I wanted an mATX case in that style and then they come out with exactly what I was looking for.
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the Tower 200 is mini-itx, not micro atx if I'm remembering correctly. Edit: just read the description, pretty hyped that it also fits mATX, less hyped because I just bought the tower 500 last week because I wanted an mATX case in that style and then they come out with exactly what I was looking for.
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Universal
I noticed that some of the Thermaltakes AIO's are mountes so the Rad hoses at the top. Not a great way to mount them considering that air rises. If there's any air in the AIO, it will go to the top and stop circulation of the coolant. The AIO should always be mounted so the hoses are at the bottom.
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I noticed that some of the Thermaltakes AIO's are mountes so the Rad hoses at the top. Not a great way to mount them considering that air rises. If there's any air in the AIO, it will go to the top and stop circulation of the coolant. The AIO should always be mounted so the hoses are at the bottom.
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