CPU SCAM: AMD Ryzen 9800X3D Counterfeits & Fraud
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Date: 2025-06-20
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Comments and reviews: 20
bmgjet
Any one can with a bit of knowledge can make fakes like that.
The simplest way would be delid a AM5 cpu.
Scan both sides of it and measure thickness of pcb.
Open scanned images of both sides in pcb design software and overlay them with each other to create a gerber file and silk screen would the die areas removed.
There silk screen is a bit weak since it didnt catch the difference around the edge of it.
Use a pcb manufacturing company to make it. Youd probably have to make 100 of them to make it in a custom thickness. Use a company that has a good privacy policy so they don't tell on you. You'll be paying like $250 for 100 pcbs. If any one ever asks its just a engineering sample for clearances.
Now the most expensive bit making that custom ihs.
To get a cast made youll be buying quite a few but it would get the cost way down, Youd need to make 1000 for it to be viable casting them.
Other wise if they are Cnc made cost would easily 4X.
Would end up being $30-90 each depending how many and what method.
(Sand some of the nickle plating off them to see what they are made out of might give a hint what way that was made.)
Then you just get it plated and laser engraved which is the simplest part and could be done at home with cheap tools.
Id suspect it would be some one doing them after hours in a factory that does cnc and pcb manufacturing. So its would be costing them more like $30 per fake.
If it was some one doing it at home then there profit would be a lot less since it would be more like $120 each to make.
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Any one can with a bit of knowledge can make fakes like that.
The simplest way would be delid a AM5 cpu.
Scan both sides of it and measure thickness of pcb.
Open scanned images of both sides in pcb design software and overlay them with each other to create a gerber file and silk screen would the die areas removed.
There silk screen is a bit weak since it didnt catch the difference around the edge of it.
Use a pcb manufacturing company to make it. Youd probably have to make 100 of them to make it in a custom thickness. Use a company that has a good privacy policy so they don't tell on you. You'll be paying like $250 for 100 pcbs. If any one ever asks its just a engineering sample for clearances.
Now the most expensive bit making that custom ihs.
To get a cast made youll be buying quite a few but it would get the cost way down, Youd need to make 1000 for it to be viable casting them.
Other wise if they are Cnc made cost would easily 4X.
Would end up being $30-90 each depending how many and what method.
(Sand some of the nickle plating off them to see what they are made out of might give a hint what way that was made.)
Then you just get it plated and laser engraved which is the simplest part and could be done at home with cheap tools.
Id suspect it would be some one doing them after hours in a factory that does cnc and pcb manufacturing. So its would be costing them more like $30 per fake.
If it was some one doing it at home then there profit would be a lot less since it would be more like $120 each to make.
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samfedorka5629
The real data matrix is 20x20 (so the data part is 18 x 18). The fake one is smaller: 18 x 18 (data part is 16 x 16). This has 18 data bits and 14 ECC bits. I decoded the first 18 chunks as 56KR1382Q30654c260m003200514 Plugging this into a code generator online has completely different error checking bits. This is why it fails to scan (although my phone recomputes the data matrix differently so maybe I don't know here). Whatever the case, I did confirm that I got the first 18 chunks (all the data) correct.
Interestingly enough, the AMD one has only 17 chunks, so they could have fit it in a smaller data matrix than the one they used. Instead they have 17 chunks and 5 chunks of padding. Doing the math out, if the entire serial number were alternating numbers and letters, that's the exact length that will fit. (the data matrix saves a chunk for each pair of numbers, so 411260 takes up three chunks 41, 12, 60)
I'm honestly not sure where they got this Data Matrix, it would have been a lot easier to just copy the AMD one 1:1 or use the serial number on the chip itself.
Is there another AMD CPU out there with serial number 56KR1382Q30654
Maybe they did the data matrix for the above serial number (the first one they faked) didn't notice that it was padded and then lasered in that to all the chips with a different made-up serial number on the rest
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The real data matrix is 20x20 (so the data part is 18 x 18). The fake one is smaller: 18 x 18 (data part is 16 x 16). This has 18 data bits and 14 ECC bits. I decoded the first 18 chunks as 56KR1382Q30654c260m003200514 Plugging this into a code generator online has completely different error checking bits. This is why it fails to scan (although my phone recomputes the data matrix differently so maybe I don't know here). Whatever the case, I did confirm that I got the first 18 chunks (all the data) correct.
Interestingly enough, the AMD one has only 17 chunks, so they could have fit it in a smaller data matrix than the one they used. Instead they have 17 chunks and 5 chunks of padding. Doing the math out, if the entire serial number were alternating numbers and letters, that's the exact length that will fit. (the data matrix saves a chunk for each pair of numbers, so 411260 takes up three chunks 41, 12, 60)
I'm honestly not sure where they got this Data Matrix, it would have been a lot easier to just copy the AMD one 1:1 or use the serial number on the chip itself.
Is there another AMD CPU out there with serial number 56KR1382Q30654
Maybe they did the data matrix for the above serial number (the first one they faked) didn't notice that it was padded and then lasered in that to all the chips with a different made-up serial number on the rest
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GGigabiteM
Creating a fake substrate PCB as mentioned around 17:55 is not difficult at all. There are freeware PCB design suites like EasyEDA that is integrated into Chinese PCB companies and suppliers. The software is very easy to use, and with a few clicks you can order dozens/hundreds/thousands of fake CPU PCBs for extremely cheap. It's not like back in the 90s and early 2000s where PCB fab companies were in the tens of thousands of dollars for low runs of parts. You can spend a few hundred dollars and get a huge number of these things made.
These fake PCBs are almost certainly just two layers, which are extremely cheap and have a fast turnaround time. As long as you aren't clearly violating any Chinese laws, the PCB fabs will make literally whatever you want.
As for the IHS, all they'd have to do is go to a tool and die fab and have the drop forge dies made and a run of heatsinks produced, or have them cast in whatever metal that looks the closest. I'm sure that the same people that work in the AMD IHS factories had something to do with the forgeries.
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Creating a fake substrate PCB as mentioned around 17:55 is not difficult at all. There are freeware PCB design suites like EasyEDA that is integrated into Chinese PCB companies and suppliers. The software is very easy to use, and with a few clicks you can order dozens/hundreds/thousands of fake CPU PCBs for extremely cheap. It's not like back in the 90s and early 2000s where PCB fab companies were in the tens of thousands of dollars for low runs of parts. You can spend a few hundred dollars and get a huge number of these things made.
These fake PCBs are almost certainly just two layers, which are extremely cheap and have a fast turnaround time. As long as you aren't clearly violating any Chinese laws, the PCB fabs will make literally whatever you want.
As for the IHS, all they'd have to do is go to a tool and die fab and have the drop forge dies made and a run of heatsinks produced, or have them cast in whatever metal that looks the closest. I'm sure that the same people that work in the AMD IHS factories had something to do with the forgeries.
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MD_Builds
Im an EE and I regularly do PCB designing work... Actually making the substrate is easy. Its just a PCB design the scammers could get them made with anyone and even populate the capacitors for them... There really isnt anything to it there other than looking at a real chip and trying to copy its layout.
One reason the substrate colour looks different is not only a slightly different blue dye, but also that theres a ground layer on that pcb. The copper makes it darker...
The little lighter dots you saw are vias in the substrate. stitching that ground layer across the other ground layers the board has.
Everything else you spoke of are just manufacturing tolerances of the PCB fab the counterfeits were made at.
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Im an EE and I regularly do PCB designing work... Actually making the substrate is easy. Its just a PCB design the scammers could get them made with anyone and even populate the capacitors for them... There really isnt anything to it there other than looking at a real chip and trying to copy its layout.
One reason the substrate colour looks different is not only a slightly different blue dye, but also that theres a ground layer on that pcb. The copper makes it darker...
The little lighter dots you saw are vias in the substrate. stitching that ground layer across the other ground layers the board has.
Everything else you spoke of are just manufacturing tolerances of the PCB fab the counterfeits were made at.
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dralord1307
Ok I will explain:
China was trying desperately to build their own foundries. They funded it with hundreds of Bil's of dollars.
Most of it was fake. IE A bakery applied as a foundry and got millions. ETC ETC
Many of these companies actually bought some equip.
So there are actually A LOT of machines in china for chip tech that were never actually used.
Some ppl have bought up this basically brand new equip, and turned into a fake production line.
IE in philippines you can get knockoffs of ANY phone you want.
Many of these fake companies have the CORRECT equipment to make VERY high quality fakes. Including making their own pcs, heat spreaders, and in some cases even old model cpus/ram etc etc.
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Ok I will explain:
China was trying desperately to build their own foundries. They funded it with hundreds of Bil's of dollars.
Most of it was fake. IE A bakery applied as a foundry and got millions. ETC ETC
Many of these companies actually bought some equip.
So there are actually A LOT of machines in china for chip tech that were never actually used.
Some ppl have bought up this basically brand new equip, and turned into a fake production line.
IE in philippines you can get knockoffs of ANY phone you want.
Many of these fake companies have the CORRECT equipment to make VERY high quality fakes. Including making their own pcs, heat spreaders, and in some cases even old model cpus/ram etc etc.
reply
gamersnexus
Even if this got to the level where AMD and Intel would start making CPUs with anti-counterfeiting check measures, like you might find on bank notes in the UK, they'd pass the cost on to the consumers as they do with basically everything else. I don't know, man. It's bad times for tech in general, not just gaming. All the little things like this plus the big things such as the terrible way companies such as Intel, Nvidia and Apple and Nintendo are acting with their profit-mongering all points to an impending crash in the sector, it's just a matter of when and what was the specific inciting mass-market incident that triggered it. Definitely on the horizon, though.
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Even if this got to the level where AMD and Intel would start making CPUs with anti-counterfeiting check measures, like you might find on bank notes in the UK, they'd pass the cost on to the consumers as they do with basically everything else. I don't know, man. It's bad times for tech in general, not just gaming. All the little things like this plus the big things such as the terrible way companies such as Intel, Nvidia and Apple and Nintendo are acting with their profit-mongering all points to an impending crash in the sector, it's just a matter of when and what was the specific inciting mass-market incident that triggered it. Definitely on the horizon, though.
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Derotron
None of this would be a problem if there was simply a basic level of buyer protection in the USA. Even on eBay, if you buy from another private individual, you have buyer protection and can demand your money back if you are cheated and receive a CPU that doesn't work. In addition, you have a 14-day right of return for online purchases from companys, meaning if you receive a fraudulent CPU, you can simply send it back and inform them that the CPU did not work. And this right of return is not tied to any conditions; you can always make use of it, no matter what the reason for the return is, even if you simply don't like the item.
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None of this would be a problem if there was simply a basic level of buyer protection in the USA. Even on eBay, if you buy from another private individual, you have buyer protection and can demand your money back if you are cheated and receive a CPU that doesn't work. In addition, you have a 14-day right of return for online purchases from companys, meaning if you receive a fraudulent CPU, you can simply send it back and inform them that the CPU did not work. And this right of return is not tied to any conditions; you can always make use of it, no matter what the reason for the return is, even if you simply don't like the item.
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TexasCat99
I remember about 20 years ago on a tech message board. A guy posted, I bought a GeForce FX 5200 from Walmart, but why does it say 'GeForce Ti4200' during Post and Drivers - Obviously, someone did a return at Walmart by doing an upgrade for free as 99% Walmart employees wouldn't know what they are looking at. Sometimes, people have packed bricks. Everyone in that board laughed, explained what happened and that he was LUCKY!
The 5200 is about 40% SLOWER than the 4200!! We told him to KEEP THE 4200!!
Somewhere out there, some kid did that swap and wondered Why are my games running worse.
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I remember about 20 years ago on a tech message board. A guy posted, I bought a GeForce FX 5200 from Walmart, but why does it say 'GeForce Ti4200' during Post and Drivers - Obviously, someone did a return at Walmart by doing an upgrade for free as 99% Walmart employees wouldn't know what they are looking at. Sometimes, people have packed bricks. Everyone in that board laughed, explained what happened and that he was LUCKY!
The 5200 is about 40% SLOWER than the 4200!! We told him to KEEP THE 4200!!
Somewhere out there, some kid did that swap and wondered Why are my games running worse.
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Cal-ain
Noticable increase in reported similar cases ever since the U.S. started controlling the Taiwanese microchip foundries more and more.
Most likely a large amount of these types of professional scams of (Nvidia GPU chips and Intel/AMD chips) being hoarded by someone professional on a large scale... and well guess which country is hoarding chips for AI
China.
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Noticable increase in reported similar cases ever since the U.S. started controlling the Taiwanese microchip foundries more and more.
Most likely a large amount of these types of professional scams of (Nvidia GPU chips and Intel/AMD chips) being hoarded by someone professional on a large scale... and well guess which country is hoarding chips for AI
China.
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gamersnexus
Looking at an actual quality of that thing, I'm almost sure it's actually was an AMD product. The dummy 7 series CPU that they can give to MoBo or cooler manufacturers for design and machining purposes (that was later stolen by some workers and re-lasered to scam 9800). You have contacts in all three categories, try asking them directly.
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Looking at an actual quality of that thing, I'm almost sure it's actually was an AMD product. The dummy 7 series CPU that they can give to MoBo or cooler manufacturers for design and machining purposes (that was later stolen by some workers and re-lasered to scam 9800). You have contacts in all three categories, try asking them directly.
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ManuFortis
So... I have to ask because of the similarity of that adhesive's pattern on the pcb. Is it just me, or does that look like some sort of word/character from an asian language Not saying which, because I am not certain enough to even presume which. I have a guess, but... it could also just be very coincidental squiggles of adhesive.
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So... I have to ask because of the similarity of that adhesive's pattern on the pcb. Is it just me, or does that look like some sort of word/character from an asian language Not saying which, because I am not certain enough to even presume which. I have a guess, but... it could also just be very coincidental squiggles of adhesive.
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gamersnexus
I came across a set of Crucial Ballistix Max 4400 2x16, that was actually a G.Skill 2x4GB 2400 with Ballistix heatspreaders. Shame I had to return it, I got it to 4533 MHz with reasonable voltage and it seemed stable. Maybe the limiting factor was the A0 PCB. You could tell something was off by looking under the heatspreader.
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I came across a set of Crucial Ballistix Max 4400 2x16, that was actually a G.Skill 2x4GB 2400 with Ballistix heatspreaders. Shame I had to return it, I got it to 4533 MHz with reasonable voltage and it seemed stable. Maybe the limiting factor was the A0 PCB. You could tell something was off by looking under the heatspreader.
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GraceMcClain
I don't have anything to say about the actual content of this video, but if Montech ever reads these comments, I bought one of your XR cases to rebuild my sim rig PC in to purely because Steve and the folks at GN say your stuff is worth buying. As always, Steve was correct. Good job everyone!
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I don't have anything to say about the actual content of this video, but if Montech ever reads these comments, I bought one of your XR cases to rebuild my sim rig PC in to purely because Steve and the folks at GN say your stuff is worth buying. As always, Steve was correct. Good job everyone!
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pandanutiypanda
The silicon in this CPU is in same dimension where Thermaltake cases get their intake air from or where Nvidia's missing ROPs are located. You may think that this CPU doesn't boot, but you just cant experience computing in this dimension, as it is simply above human comprehension
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The silicon in this CPU is in same dimension where Thermaltake cases get their intake air from or where Nvidia's missing ROPs are located. You may think that this CPU doesn't boot, but you just cant experience computing in this dimension, as it is simply above human comprehension
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WizardsAnonymous
CPU SCAM INVESTIGATION: AMD Ryzen 9800X3D Counterfeits & Fraud would be a cool title. Also, assuming someone is just having these pcb's made at somewhere like pcbway and they used a non-real number printed on the silicon so that it isn't flagged as using an AMD number. :)
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CPU SCAM INVESTIGATION: AMD Ryzen 9800X3D Counterfeits & Fraud would be a cool title. Also, assuming someone is just having these pcb's made at somewhere like pcbway and they used a non-real number printed on the silicon so that it isn't flagged as using an AMD number. :)
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sultanofsick
This is basically identical to the fake Der8auer got from a viewer, but from a sketchier source (a local craigslist/ebay type website IIRC). This HAS to be a supply chain fraud to warrant that kind of fake instead of the basic swaps and stickers and stuff.
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This is basically identical to the fake Der8auer got from a viewer, but from a sketchier source (a local craigslist/ebay type website IIRC). This HAS to be a supply chain fraud to warrant that kind of fake instead of the basic swaps and stickers and stuff.
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GloriousEagle69
you can not expect a minimum wage overstressed over worked employee to know the exact look and serial numbers of 10 000 packages going in and out of return every month.
it would be negligent to actually check each item than to just handle errors.
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you can not expect a minimum wage overstressed over worked employee to know the exact look and serial numbers of 10 000 packages going in and out of return every month.
it would be negligent to actually check each item than to just handle errors.
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drxym
I got burned by a fake flash card a long time ago and ever since I just buy computer components from a reputable source. It's simply not worth the hassle and grief to me of buying from some unknown seller even if it might seem like I'm saving a few pennies.
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I got burned by a fake flash card a long time ago and ever since I just buy computer components from a reputable source. It's simply not worth the hassle and grief to me of buying from some unknown seller even if it might seem like I'm saving a few pennies.
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MrTrilbe
The question AMD and Intel need to answer is how to make a system to check if a product is valid without making it useable by scammer to make a better scam, i would include nVidia but they'd take everything they learnt to better scam their customers
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The question AMD and Intel need to answer is how to make a system to check if a product is valid without making it useable by scammer to make a better scam, i would include nVidia but they'd take everything they learnt to better scam their customers
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Shane_Bozelie
I know there are places like PCBway, at which you can order your own designed pcb's. You could maybe talk to a company like that, how difficult it would be to make such a fake (Also for graphic cards and such)
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I know there are places like PCBway, at which you can order your own designed pcb's. You could maybe talk to a company like that, how difficult it would be to make such a fake (Also for graphic cards and such)
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