HW News - 40 Driver Vulnerabilities Found, Ryzen 3000 Binning Stats
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Date: 2020-05-06
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Comments and reviews: 10
Henrik
Why are people reaction like the RTX thing is news? It's basically been the debate since the prices were announced, and it never stopped. There has been tons of input about this issue, and how many of us have said something like RTX is a nice tech demo, but who the hell wants more noise in the picture while playing an FPS? . Most pro gamers turn off/down the details in their games and there is a simple reason for it. If you want to concentrate on killing your enemies in a first person shooter, a reflection of a tree which might be mistaken for an enemy is counterproductive! A nice looking game doesn't mean that it looks like reality, so arguing that you should pay double to get this effect is not what most gamers would pick. Now on top of that - If you are making a game and people list what they would like in the game and then as an afterthought say Oh yeah and I spent a fortune on a graphics card which can run RT - so that would be cool too! - then it stands to reason that it will be an afterthought for the developer too. It's simple logic why devs don't use their energy on this! The only way this could have been different is if Nvidia had gone Sony/Epic and payed the devs a boatload of cash to do it! We are no longer talking about graphical fidelity here and it's not like every other way of doing lighting and reflections look bad! Raytracing is - and most likely always will be a tech demo - or more negatively said - a gimmick to justify an obscene pricepoint on their products. How good do you think an GTX 1680 ti would be if they used the diespace the 2080 ti uses on Tensor cores on actual stream processors or cuda or. whatever would up the performance in normal non-raytracing graphics? Well we will never know because Nvidia doesn't want to be proven wrong and out of spite will never launch a product like that - a product which people might actually want! My only conclusion is that I feel REALLY bad for the people who saved up for a long time to be able to buy the graphics card the hype told them to, only to never be able to really use the expensive part of this product for anything other than going Yeah I know Paul - but look at this reflection in the 1 game. fire reflections on the side of the car and water, to which Paul will answer Huh. that looked way better in the video Nvidia showed. guess slowing it down made it more noticeable! LOL (and yes those slowmo clips look sick - but who the hell games like that)
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Why are people reaction like the RTX thing is news? It's basically been the debate since the prices were announced, and it never stopped. There has been tons of input about this issue, and how many of us have said something like RTX is a nice tech demo, but who the hell wants more noise in the picture while playing an FPS? . Most pro gamers turn off/down the details in their games and there is a simple reason for it. If you want to concentrate on killing your enemies in a first person shooter, a reflection of a tree which might be mistaken for an enemy is counterproductive! A nice looking game doesn't mean that it looks like reality, so arguing that you should pay double to get this effect is not what most gamers would pick. Now on top of that - If you are making a game and people list what they would like in the game and then as an afterthought say Oh yeah and I spent a fortune on a graphics card which can run RT - so that would be cool too! - then it stands to reason that it will be an afterthought for the developer too. It's simple logic why devs don't use their energy on this! The only way this could have been different is if Nvidia had gone Sony/Epic and payed the devs a boatload of cash to do it! We are no longer talking about graphical fidelity here and it's not like every other way of doing lighting and reflections look bad! Raytracing is - and most likely always will be a tech demo - or more negatively said - a gimmick to justify an obscene pricepoint on their products. How good do you think an GTX 1680 ti would be if they used the diespace the 2080 ti uses on Tensor cores on actual stream processors or cuda or. whatever would up the performance in normal non-raytracing graphics? Well we will never know because Nvidia doesn't want to be proven wrong and out of spite will never launch a product like that - a product which people might actually want! My only conclusion is that I feel REALLY bad for the people who saved up for a long time to be able to buy the graphics card the hype told them to, only to never be able to really use the expensive part of this product for anything other than going Yeah I know Paul - but look at this reflection in the 1 game. fire reflections on the side of the car and water, to which Paul will answer Huh. that looked way better in the video Nvidia showed. guess slowing it down made it more noticeable! LOL (and yes those slowmo clips look sick - but who the hell games like that)
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pino
Its sad to see that because of all the ill informed negative granny fanboys/haters on the internet that claim they have no intereset in RTX just like they had no interest in hairworx, physx, advanced AA and a ton of other features Nvidia brought us gamers RTX seems to be kicked to a backseet half assed late launch feature. which is a shame. its how we progress in graphic fidelity if you dont care buy a freaking dreamcast and enjoy your pixels. Refund on all the games as they lied to you. USA people love a good class action so have at it. And amd should have just stuck to realistic all core clocks EVERY chip will run with a good cooler. Frequency isnt everything as its clearly faster per mhz but people focusssed to much on the 5ghz. AMD to me seems a company that loves cherry picking results, blatently lying, misleading the consumer by showering them with irrelevant information like boost clocks in navi that are totally irrelevant and adding a game boost clock which is the only relevant clock. Hence i went with a 9900k and GTX card as i know what im getting its bin tested its all bin layed out and despite those companys not being totaly straight foreward atleast you know what you get. there isnt a single 9900k that cant do 4, 7ghz all core without manual adjustments. AMD binning seems underwhelming but to mee it seems worrying. they cant seem to push much more out of the chip. yields were good so there is no easy way to get more performance out of this chip for them like intel had with there chip where they could push out performance year after year.
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Its sad to see that because of all the ill informed negative granny fanboys/haters on the internet that claim they have no intereset in RTX just like they had no interest in hairworx, physx, advanced AA and a ton of other features Nvidia brought us gamers RTX seems to be kicked to a backseet half assed late launch feature. which is a shame. its how we progress in graphic fidelity if you dont care buy a freaking dreamcast and enjoy your pixels. Refund on all the games as they lied to you. USA people love a good class action so have at it. And amd should have just stuck to realistic all core clocks EVERY chip will run with a good cooler. Frequency isnt everything as its clearly faster per mhz but people focusssed to much on the 5ghz. AMD to me seems a company that loves cherry picking results, blatently lying, misleading the consumer by showering them with irrelevant information like boost clocks in navi that are totally irrelevant and adding a game boost clock which is the only relevant clock. Hence i went with a 9900k and GTX card as i know what im getting its bin tested its all bin layed out and despite those companys not being totaly straight foreward atleast you know what you get. there isnt a single 9900k that cant do 4, 7ghz all core without manual adjustments. AMD binning seems underwhelming but to mee it seems worrying. they cant seem to push much more out of the chip. yields were good so there is no easy way to get more performance out of this chip for them like intel had with there chip where they could push out performance year after year.
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Peter
The MS certification of drivers is a joke according to people who are high up in the software world. You pay a small fee and you get that certification, that is pretty much what it comes down to. There is very little quality control if any at all. A guy who really knows software (masters degree in computer science, visiting Ubisoft for his work, working with disassembly) told me that any hardware monitoring tool (HWInfo, CPU-Z, Speccy) which he had taken a look at is insecure except for Rivatuner. The problem is not so much what the developers of those tools would do (they probably won't abuse any vulnerability, the problem is what others can do by using the interface of thatt software, which is a lot more than most of us are comfortable to know. Obviously vulnerable drivers are even worse, that is party time for hackers. Here the solution for MS: do a thorough quality control. If you can't handle that, hire a reputable company (maybe Red Hat? They are experts in operating systems) to do it for you. If it is too expensive then charge more for that certification.
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The MS certification of drivers is a joke according to people who are high up in the software world. You pay a small fee and you get that certification, that is pretty much what it comes down to. There is very little quality control if any at all. A guy who really knows software (masters degree in computer science, visiting Ubisoft for his work, working with disassembly) told me that any hardware monitoring tool (HWInfo, CPU-Z, Speccy) which he had taken a look at is insecure except for Rivatuner. The problem is not so much what the developers of those tools would do (they probably won't abuse any vulnerability, the problem is what others can do by using the interface of thatt software, which is a lot more than most of us are comfortable to know. Obviously vulnerable drivers are even worse, that is party time for hackers. Here the solution for MS: do a thorough quality control. If you can't handle that, hire a reputable company (maybe Red Hat? They are experts in operating systems) to do it for you. If it is too expensive then charge more for that certification.
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Peter
I like it that Assetto Corsa does not prioritize RTX any more. It just is not a good utilization of resources. I do like it in general when game developers make games for the most demanding hardware, if you can't use it right now (Crysis) then you will profit from it years later. But RTX is proprietary and only a small percentage of gamers who have a small fraction of Nvidia cards could use it and then they would get a glorified slideshow. I think that gamers would be served better when developers research how to properly use Vulkan (and possible DX12) and platform-agnostic raytracing (Vulkan and possibly DX12. On a different topic. I own a 3700X. Yes, AMD had misleading marketing about the boost frequencies. They did not lie, you do get that boost, at least for the 3700X. But it was misleading! I speculate that AMD-marketing felt that it had to present higher boost-numbers because most computer-users can't comprehend that 4. 0-4. 1 GHz on a 3700X is comparable to 4. 6-4. 7 GHz on a 2700X.
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I like it that Assetto Corsa does not prioritize RTX any more. It just is not a good utilization of resources. I do like it in general when game developers make games for the most demanding hardware, if you can't use it right now (Crysis) then you will profit from it years later. But RTX is proprietary and only a small percentage of gamers who have a small fraction of Nvidia cards could use it and then they would get a glorified slideshow. I think that gamers would be served better when developers research how to properly use Vulkan (and possible DX12) and platform-agnostic raytracing (Vulkan and possibly DX12. On a different topic. I own a 3700X. Yes, AMD had misleading marketing about the boost frequencies. They did not lie, you do get that boost, at least for the 3700X. But it was misleading! I speculate that AMD-marketing felt that it had to present higher boost-numbers because most computer-users can't comprehend that 4. 0-4. 1 GHz on a 3700X is comparable to 4. 6-4. 7 GHz on a 2700X.
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szab
There was an article on Tom's HW I think. which stated that Ryzen 3000 CPUs are binned & built in a way that only 1 of the cores can do the advertised single core boost clock (thus being higher binned. I'm shocked that this didn't get more publicity. That's why you can't OC basically, because all of the other cores (or chiplets) are lower bins and can't handle those higher clocks. In Intel CPUs on the other hand every core is capable of doing the single core turbo clock, and usually, you can achieve the single core turbo speed on all cores (if it's a K, even if the bin is not that good (with more voltage. There even was a Windows 10 problem if I remember correctly, that Windows used to bounce around single core loads through the cores and this didn't go very well with Ryzen 3000 series chips (because only 1 core could boost ever so high. This issue I think is fixed now, the solution being 'favored core' (pinning single core workloads to only 1 specific core - the highest binned one.
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There was an article on Tom's HW I think. which stated that Ryzen 3000 CPUs are binned & built in a way that only 1 of the cores can do the advertised single core boost clock (thus being higher binned. I'm shocked that this didn't get more publicity. That's why you can't OC basically, because all of the other cores (or chiplets) are lower bins and can't handle those higher clocks. In Intel CPUs on the other hand every core is capable of doing the single core turbo clock, and usually, you can achieve the single core turbo speed on all cores (if it's a K, even if the bin is not that good (with more voltage. There even was a Windows 10 problem if I remember correctly, that Windows used to bounce around single core loads through the cores and this didn't go very well with Ryzen 3000 series chips (because only 1 core could boost ever so high. This issue I think is fixed now, the solution being 'favored core' (pinning single core workloads to only 1 specific core - the highest binned one.
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Dizzy
That is what happens when you buy on promises, GN (referring to Assetto Corsa. Of course they aren't gonna do that. RTX is a gimmick that will be on the same level as PhysX when it was first released and touted. I saw this a thousand miles away and KNEW most devs would not willingly implement RTX because it is worthless and useless as it is right now. Maybe when there are more powerful cards (or devs support multi-GPU setups, highly unlikely, then it might be worth it. But as it stands right now, RTX is a big, massive bust, and anyone who bought on the promises deserve every bit of grief they deal with wasting the money. This kind of stuff is just as bad as pre-order culture (buying into a new trend that literally has not been proven to be the next big thing, only marketing speech saying as much) and I feel 0 sympathy for people who lose money doing such purchases.
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That is what happens when you buy on promises, GN (referring to Assetto Corsa. Of course they aren't gonna do that. RTX is a gimmick that will be on the same level as PhysX when it was first released and touted. I saw this a thousand miles away and KNEW most devs would not willingly implement RTX because it is worthless and useless as it is right now. Maybe when there are more powerful cards (or devs support multi-GPU setups, highly unlikely, then it might be worth it. But as it stands right now, RTX is a big, massive bust, and anyone who bought on the promises deserve every bit of grief they deal with wasting the money. This kind of stuff is just as bad as pre-order culture (buying into a new trend that literally has not been proven to be the next big thing, only marketing speech saying as much) and I feel 0 sympathy for people who lose money doing such purchases.
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sadlerbw9
I found it interesting to see the drop in maximum all-core frequency on the 3900X in the Silicon Lottery data. I was watching a der8uer video where he was talking to LTT Anthony, and Anthony pointed out that you were statistically far less likely to see high all-core clocks when using two chiplets vs. one. It s interesting to see that effect shown in real data from Silicon Lottery. With the 3900X, you now need to not just get one golden chiplet, but two. So, your chances of getting a single golden chiplet goes up, but the chances that both will be golden goes down a whole lot more. Looks like per-CCX overclocking is going to be the fun part of overclocking these multi-chiplet parts!
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I found it interesting to see the drop in maximum all-core frequency on the 3900X in the Silicon Lottery data. I was watching a der8uer video where he was talking to LTT Anthony, and Anthony pointed out that you were statistically far less likely to see high all-core clocks when using two chiplets vs. one. It s interesting to see that effect shown in real data from Silicon Lottery. With the 3900X, you now need to not just get one golden chiplet, but two. So, your chances of getting a single golden chiplet goes up, but the chances that both will be golden goes down a whole lot more. Looks like per-CCX overclocking is going to be the fun part of overclocking these multi-chiplet parts!
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Johan
I suppose AMD deserves getting a bit of a hiding. I am just wondering why Steve is lately just slamming AMD for everything they do. Do you even realise where AMD is coming from? Intel has such an evil history. So forgive me for being a bit paranoid. If anybody opens his mouth, I am open ears to hear where Intel is trying to kill AMD. Yes, I am paranoid for a good reason. I was there during the Athlon days. When AMD hit 1GHz, we had to buy unmarked Asus motherboards via the back door. Now I see that Intel is still successful to have OEM; s not selling AMD. If you think they have nothing to do with it, you are just naive. With such a multi billion Dollar company, I trust nobody.
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I suppose AMD deserves getting a bit of a hiding. I am just wondering why Steve is lately just slamming AMD for everything they do. Do you even realise where AMD is coming from? Intel has such an evil history. So forgive me for being a bit paranoid. If anybody opens his mouth, I am open ears to hear where Intel is trying to kill AMD. Yes, I am paranoid for a good reason. I was there during the Athlon days. When AMD hit 1GHz, we had to buy unmarked Asus motherboards via the back door. Now I see that Intel is still successful to have OEM; s not selling AMD. If you think they have nothing to do with it, you are just naive. With such a multi billion Dollar company, I trust nobody.
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recogrunt
I want to see if I can convince you guys to do a current intel igpu vs a current amd igpu. (I was trying to look at them and compare which intel model UHD or Iris is physically comparable to the Vega igpu but I am not sure how to compare them architecturally) Not just to see which one is better but to get an idea of how intel architecture stacks up against Vega GCN on a strictly gpu basis. Maybe by limiting and equalizing the intel cpu to be equal thread and core wise or vice versa with AMD, so that the gpu is the only factor in play. In my mind I believe that would give us an idea of what to expect from the upcoming or rumored intel discreet graphics cards.
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I want to see if I can convince you guys to do a current intel igpu vs a current amd igpu. (I was trying to look at them and compare which intel model UHD or Iris is physically comparable to the Vega igpu but I am not sure how to compare them architecturally) Not just to see which one is better but to get an idea of how intel architecture stacks up against Vega GCN on a strictly gpu basis. Maybe by limiting and equalizing the intel cpu to be equal thread and core wise or vice versa with AMD, so that the gpu is the only factor in play. In my mind I believe that would give us an idea of what to expect from the upcoming or rumored intel discreet graphics cards.
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Luxxeon
It's too bad about the Corsa announcement of not supporting RTX yet, but I really think where RTX will thrive is in the Creative software community. That's really where CUDA-based GPU rendering and support for Raytracing acceleration is really going to be embraced early. GPU enhanced path tracing, especially CUDA enhanced, has already been revolutionary in terms of VFX and other creative asset development in recent years, and if we can squeeze even more speed out of a path tracing render engine with RTX, it's a really big deal to people working in the 3D/VFX/MotionGraphics or CAD industries.
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It's too bad about the Corsa announcement of not supporting RTX yet, but I really think where RTX will thrive is in the Creative software community. That's really where CUDA-based GPU rendering and support for Raytracing acceleration is really going to be embraced early. GPU enhanced path tracing, especially CUDA enhanced, has already been revolutionary in terms of VFX and other creative asset development in recent years, and if we can squeeze even more speed out of a path tracing render engine with RTX, it's a really big deal to people working in the 3D/VFX/MotionGraphics or CAD industries.
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