Nvidia GeForce RTX analysis, PC gear at Gamescom, and Q&A - The Full Nerd Ep. 64
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Date: 2022-03-15
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Comments and reviews: 10
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I'm still trying to figure out why everybody's like so concerned over Ray Tracing. Having extra features in our video cards is a good thing. And Jensen is not selling the 20 series based on the Ray tracing. He said it's a convention that the cards perform better overall. Why would you buy Pascal card which has ddr5 and pass on a newer card that has ddr6? And then I believe you said there's less overhead for shaders also. Or at least it's features in the card so that developers will have less overhead. So no don't spend your $500 on a pascal card. If you're really that scared of the 20 series then save that $500 until you see some benchmarks or until they come out with some other new cards next year. You should always go with the newer cards if they have a lot of new features and especially faster DDR. Pascal is now for the poor people. So all those people who love AMD can I buy cheap Pascal cards. Don't Lynch me. I'm exaggerating and teasing. There's a whole lot of reasons to like the 20 series. And there's a whole lot of reasons to like Nvidia. One major reason is because they love to push the bar higher. And that is a good thing even if you're paying a little more for their technology. AMD finally responded to Intel sort of. Now AMD has to respond to Nvidia. Because frankly, they're getting their butt spanked again. The thing about this video that confused me was when they were talking about to CUDA cores. I don't claim to know all the technical aspects a video cards but Cuda cores are not the only thing that makes video cards great as far as I always believed. Yes they are important but so is all the other Tech that they put on a chip. I always looked at it as everything working together to determine performance. Not just one thing. I don't have money growing on trees or falling out of the sky into my hands but I can't fault Nvidia for keep pushing forward. I've heard people say that most people won't even care about having better looking graphics and blah blah blah. I hope that we as a people don't really think that way. Ever since I was a little kid and got my hands on my first personal computer I always dreamed of someday playing photo-realistic games. Right now we have pretty nice looking games but they're still missing something big. And Ray tracing just might be it. And lastly I think that Jensen said something about VR games running better as well and the card is future proof to be able to support VR connection. Anyway, what do some of you other guys/gals think? Sorry about bad grammar text. I'm on my mobile doing voice to text and up all night and it's 6 a. m. Cheers! Ciao.
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I'm still trying to figure out why everybody's like so concerned over Ray Tracing. Having extra features in our video cards is a good thing. And Jensen is not selling the 20 series based on the Ray tracing. He said it's a convention that the cards perform better overall. Why would you buy Pascal card which has ddr5 and pass on a newer card that has ddr6? And then I believe you said there's less overhead for shaders also. Or at least it's features in the card so that developers will have less overhead. So no don't spend your $500 on a pascal card. If you're really that scared of the 20 series then save that $500 until you see some benchmarks or until they come out with some other new cards next year. You should always go with the newer cards if they have a lot of new features and especially faster DDR. Pascal is now for the poor people. So all those people who love AMD can I buy cheap Pascal cards. Don't Lynch me. I'm exaggerating and teasing. There's a whole lot of reasons to like the 20 series. And there's a whole lot of reasons to like Nvidia. One major reason is because they love to push the bar higher. And that is a good thing even if you're paying a little more for their technology. AMD finally responded to Intel sort of. Now AMD has to respond to Nvidia. Because frankly, they're getting their butt spanked again. The thing about this video that confused me was when they were talking about to CUDA cores. I don't claim to know all the technical aspects a video cards but Cuda cores are not the only thing that makes video cards great as far as I always believed. Yes they are important but so is all the other Tech that they put on a chip. I always looked at it as everything working together to determine performance. Not just one thing. I don't have money growing on trees or falling out of the sky into my hands but I can't fault Nvidia for keep pushing forward. I've heard people say that most people won't even care about having better looking graphics and blah blah blah. I hope that we as a people don't really think that way. Ever since I was a little kid and got my hands on my first personal computer I always dreamed of someday playing photo-realistic games. Right now we have pretty nice looking games but they're still missing something big. And Ray tracing just might be it. And lastly I think that Jensen said something about VR games running better as well and the card is future proof to be able to support VR connection. Anyway, what do some of you other guys/gals think? Sorry about bad grammar text. I'm on my mobile doing voice to text and up all night and it's 6 a. m. Cheers! Ciao.
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Peter
Of course you have huge FPS-drops with raytracing. Even if you have separate hardware for the raytracing then still the shader-units have to wait until the shader-hardware is done with rendering its part of the frame. That is why for now it mostly is a marketing gimmick. It is real and there is dedicated hardware but the level is too low (too many errors, it doesn't look realistic) and the performance hit is too high. My thought on this: don't turn on any raytracing for the next generation and probably the generation after that when you like a high FPS. Maybe do it sometime to enjoy the graphics if you like it but don't really game with it.
Having said that, I do like it that for once Nvidia takes a risk by putting all that extra hardware on it.
Raytracing in games that already give a FPS in the hundreds. That is a LOL for me.
1. Let's first make the graphics better in other ways
2. You would get the same low FPS with the same level of the raytracing because the shaders would have to wait for the raytracing-parts (tensor cores (multiply-add on multiple inputs) and those other new units )to be finished.
-Brad Chacos
I observed the same. RTX has been chosen and Nvidia to make us associate raytracing with Nvidia. It is clever marketing but personally I dislike this kind of marketing. However, it does deliver results, I can't argue with that. Nvidia launches the 1080 Ti already because Nvidia has planned to bring out cards on 7 nm. in 2019, like AMD. They have to do it now. Besides, it is priced as the old Titan cards.
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Of course you have huge FPS-drops with raytracing. Even if you have separate hardware for the raytracing then still the shader-units have to wait until the shader-hardware is done with rendering its part of the frame. That is why for now it mostly is a marketing gimmick. It is real and there is dedicated hardware but the level is too low (too many errors, it doesn't look realistic) and the performance hit is too high. My thought on this: don't turn on any raytracing for the next generation and probably the generation after that when you like a high FPS. Maybe do it sometime to enjoy the graphics if you like it but don't really game with it.
Having said that, I do like it that for once Nvidia takes a risk by putting all that extra hardware on it.
Raytracing in games that already give a FPS in the hundreds. That is a LOL for me.
1. Let's first make the graphics better in other ways
2. You would get the same low FPS with the same level of the raytracing because the shaders would have to wait for the raytracing-parts (tensor cores (multiply-add on multiple inputs) and those other new units )to be finished.
-Brad Chacos
I observed the same. RTX has been chosen and Nvidia to make us associate raytracing with Nvidia. It is clever marketing but personally I dislike this kind of marketing. However, it does deliver results, I can't argue with that. Nvidia launches the 1080 Ti already because Nvidia has planned to bring out cards on 7 nm. in 2019, like AMD. They have to do it now. Besides, it is priced as the old Titan cards.
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Tyrant
The most worrying thing for me is that we seem to be undertaking yet another level of proprietary shader tech. What graphics needs is a consistent pipeline, or at least a consistent API and shader tech across x64/ARM based platforms. Ray tracing will become a thing, but I'd far prefer to see the adoption of an open standard, floated on an non-proprietary API with cooperative development of that API. How can we still think that code intended for one iteration of HW or OS is sensible, when the product itself does not limit itself to those platforms? We are still trying to tidy up the pieces after years of writing for one browser, proprietary DB's, dx9/single core.
Nvidia are happy to do the work to obfuscate engine weaknesses, AMD allows access to a more raw card (thinner dx12/vulkan drivers. I guess the danger is that AMD is will naturally be better for RT than pascal. Obviously I'd like to see Vulkan get full cooperative commercial backing. It is a brilliant API but you need to write an amount of lower-level code to get off the ground, full backing would get it the shader support it needs, engine kitchen/templates etc. In return you get an API that can address/schedule most modern hardware efficiently, supports multi-gpu discovery and intelligent implementation, and is largely platform agnostic. DX12 is -all mouth- outside the GPU.
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The most worrying thing for me is that we seem to be undertaking yet another level of proprietary shader tech. What graphics needs is a consistent pipeline, or at least a consistent API and shader tech across x64/ARM based platforms. Ray tracing will become a thing, but I'd far prefer to see the adoption of an open standard, floated on an non-proprietary API with cooperative development of that API. How can we still think that code intended for one iteration of HW or OS is sensible, when the product itself does not limit itself to those platforms? We are still trying to tidy up the pieces after years of writing for one browser, proprietary DB's, dx9/single core.
Nvidia are happy to do the work to obfuscate engine weaknesses, AMD allows access to a more raw card (thinner dx12/vulkan drivers. I guess the danger is that AMD is will naturally be better for RT than pascal. Obviously I'd like to see Vulkan get full cooperative commercial backing. It is a brilliant API but you need to write an amount of lower-level code to get off the ground, full backing would get it the shader support it needs, engine kitchen/templates etc. In return you get an API that can address/schedule most modern hardware efficiently, supports multi-gpu discovery and intelligent implementation, and is largely platform agnostic. DX12 is -all mouth- outside the GPU.
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theripper121
I'm of the opinion that Ray tracing will eventually be the future and will be a big leap forward but I think Nvidia's problem is the marketing and shoving it down gamers throats when ATM in this gen it is not ready for prime time. Gamers want FPS first and foremost and not to be forced into 300-500 price bumps in the same tier of graphics card in a single generation for a tech that may or not be implemented well by developers this generation and or fast enough to be of any real benefit this gen.
Nvidia has a gamers line of cards and a work/professional line of cards in the Quadro series. Seems to me Nvidia should have waited a gen or two before including this into the consumer based and marketed -gaming- cards. If you render or do workflow where ray tracing can be leveraged then the Quadro cards should be for you. Gamers cards should never be seeing this much bump in price in the same tiers of cards in a single generational update period.
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I'm of the opinion that Ray tracing will eventually be the future and will be a big leap forward but I think Nvidia's problem is the marketing and shoving it down gamers throats when ATM in this gen it is not ready for prime time. Gamers want FPS first and foremost and not to be forced into 300-500 price bumps in the same tier of graphics card in a single generation for a tech that may or not be implemented well by developers this generation and or fast enough to be of any real benefit this gen.
Nvidia has a gamers line of cards and a work/professional line of cards in the Quadro series. Seems to me Nvidia should have waited a gen or two before including this into the consumer based and marketed -gaming- cards. If you render or do workflow where ray tracing can be leveraged then the Quadro cards should be for you. Gamers cards should never be seeing this much bump in price in the same tiers of cards in a single generational update period.
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freak777power
Nvidia wasted sillicon on rather useless feature such as Ray Trace. I don't see the problem with reflections and shadows the way they are now. Don't get me wrong, Ray Trace is not ready for the next 4 years, in mean time i'd rather get $550 1080ti which is what I will do. I believe AMD will take more pragmatic approach and double the number of shader cores and kick the f. out 2080 in performance, and again RTX won't matter. I saw game play with RTX On and RTX Off, and honestly with RTX Off shadows look more natural to me, where RTX simply makes it blurred. In fact all AMD has to do is to release Navi for $200 with Nvidia 1080ti performance, that's where the consumer money will go. Crossfire works great btw. DX12 sucks badly.
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Nvidia wasted sillicon on rather useless feature such as Ray Trace. I don't see the problem with reflections and shadows the way they are now. Don't get me wrong, Ray Trace is not ready for the next 4 years, in mean time i'd rather get $550 1080ti which is what I will do. I believe AMD will take more pragmatic approach and double the number of shader cores and kick the f. out 2080 in performance, and again RTX won't matter. I saw game play with RTX On and RTX Off, and honestly with RTX Off shadows look more natural to me, where RTX simply makes it blurred. In fact all AMD has to do is to release Navi for $200 with Nvidia 1080ti performance, that's where the consumer money will go. Crossfire works great btw. DX12 sucks badly.
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MarcasswellbMD
TIME STAMP: 18: 00 AND THIS IS What pisses me off, AMD introduced Ray Tracing Months ago! AND Now Because Nvidia Has The Money To BRIBE, OR -Kick Back to Developer's to NOW add Ray Tracing, NOW They will Get Behind It, and DX? Is That Right! Because u Need DX12 for the Asicronise Compute, Spelled That wrong, But Does anyone see Where I'm coming From? I'm saying This Whole Market is so Unfair and Corrupt, Because of The Intel Kick Backs to OEM's/Developer's, and Nvidia Kick Back's to OEM's/Developer's. But I guess I'm Wrong for wanting Integrity Out of OEM's and Game Developer's.
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TIME STAMP: 18: 00 AND THIS IS What pisses me off, AMD introduced Ray Tracing Months ago! AND Now Because Nvidia Has The Money To BRIBE, OR -Kick Back to Developer's to NOW add Ray Tracing, NOW They will Get Behind It, and DX? Is That Right! Because u Need DX12 for the Asicronise Compute, Spelled That wrong, But Does anyone see Where I'm coming From? I'm saying This Whole Market is so Unfair and Corrupt, Because of The Intel Kick Backs to OEM's/Developer's, and Nvidia Kick Back's to OEM's/Developer's. But I guess I'm Wrong for wanting Integrity Out of OEM's and Game Developer's.
reply
The
Sorry but I have to disagree. They can't keep giving us more performance. This is the company that just put out a 144hz 4k HDR panel and can't provide the damn cards to push those levels of performance. Instead we get a software feature that basically puts a shiny coat of paint on the games while offering consoles level performance. All while costing as much as last gen. Yeah thanks but no thanks I'll stick to the 10 series till something worth while comes out.
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Sorry but I have to disagree. They can't keep giving us more performance. This is the company that just put out a 144hz 4k HDR panel and can't provide the damn cards to push those levels of performance. Instead we get a software feature that basically puts a shiny coat of paint on the games while offering consoles level performance. All while costing as much as last gen. Yeah thanks but no thanks I'll stick to the 10 series till something worth while comes out.
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John
My GTX 770 died just before the Pascal launch, so I waited. Then Ethereum mining shot up the prices of Pascal cards, so I waited. Finally, Pascal cards started to return to their MSRP, but next gen cards were coming, so I waited. Now I've decided to buy an RTX 2070, but there are no preorders yet, so I'm waiting.
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My GTX 770 died just before the Pascal launch, so I waited. Then Ethereum mining shot up the prices of Pascal cards, so I waited. Finally, Pascal cards started to return to their MSRP, but next gen cards were coming, so I waited. Now I've decided to buy an RTX 2070, but there are no preorders yet, so I'm waiting.
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bob
you cant return preorders on most sites by the way. better check and makes sure. i preorded a 1070 ti cause i knew aobut what the perf would be. there was no returns but it didnt say that until i had already ordered
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you cant return preorders on most sites by the way. better check and makes sure. i preorded a 1070 ti cause i knew aobut what the perf would be. there was no returns but it didnt say that until i had already ordered
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paul
I've been waiting for 3 months on a card the 20 series will be better maybe only 15-20% but the price point in Canada will hurt alot.
I still wouldn't buy a 10 series for 700-1000 dollars.
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I've been waiting for 3 months on a card the 20 series will be better maybe only 15-20% but the price point in Canada will hurt alot.
I still wouldn't buy a 10 series for 700-1000 dollars.
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