How to Remove a Highway
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Date: 2024-04-16
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Comments and reviews: 20
Zachruff
My home is Toronto but Im actually going to University in Rochester atm. I havent lived in Rochester long but yeah I've been to Union in Rochester and its a nice place. They've also started converting the Xerox tower (tall black tower at 0: 24) into apartments (mostly aimed at uni students iirc. Unfortunately the core downtown still has a long ways to go to become truly liveable. When I was living in the Xerox tower the nearest grocery store was like a 30 minute walk away, since everything else around there is basically just office towers still.
In Toronto we still have the mistake that is the Gardiner, and while a tiny portion of it was removed most of the elevated part through downtown Toronto still exists. It used to be under city jurisdiction and took up half! of the total maintenance costs of all roads in the entire city all by itself. The structure itself is basically falling apart, walking under it is super sketchy since you can see exposed rebar everywhere and chunks of concrete just fall off the structure occasionally. Some Toronto councilors wanted to remove it, but instead what ended up happening is that the responsibility for it got uploaded to the Provincial government, who are super conservative and not the most intelligent bunch so unfortunately its probably gonna be sticking around.
(a small part of me is kind of hoping it just collapses on its own due to how poor of a state its in, which would mean they're just forced to demolish the rest of it due to safety concerns)
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My home is Toronto but Im actually going to University in Rochester atm. I havent lived in Rochester long but yeah I've been to Union in Rochester and its a nice place. They've also started converting the Xerox tower (tall black tower at 0: 24) into apartments (mostly aimed at uni students iirc. Unfortunately the core downtown still has a long ways to go to become truly liveable. When I was living in the Xerox tower the nearest grocery store was like a 30 minute walk away, since everything else around there is basically just office towers still.
In Toronto we still have the mistake that is the Gardiner, and while a tiny portion of it was removed most of the elevated part through downtown Toronto still exists. It used to be under city jurisdiction and took up half! of the total maintenance costs of all roads in the entire city all by itself. The structure itself is basically falling apart, walking under it is super sketchy since you can see exposed rebar everywhere and chunks of concrete just fall off the structure occasionally. Some Toronto councilors wanted to remove it, but instead what ended up happening is that the responsibility for it got uploaded to the Provincial government, who are super conservative and not the most intelligent bunch so unfortunately its probably gonna be sticking around.
(a small part of me is kind of hoping it just collapses on its own due to how poor of a state its in, which would mean they're just forced to demolish the rest of it due to safety concerns)
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ReapTheWhirlwind
The Skyway doesn't need to exist. It sits right next to Furhmann Boulevard, which is underused because the Skyway is right there, and so removing it wouldn't stop commuter traffic. The problem is that Fuhrmann Boulevard sits on a large isthmus and removing the Skyway would require at least one commuter bridge. A bridge exists on only one side of the isthmus, at South Michigan Street, and so one would need to be built to link to Furhmann Boulevard. There's a bridge further away at Ohio Street too. What the South Michigan Street and Ohio Street bridges have in common is that they're really old and honestly need to be replaced before the Skyway can be torn down. One of the biggest reasons people don't use them often is because they're draw bridges that allow boats to sail down the Buffalo River and into Lake Erie & the Niagara River. Either they're gonna have to be really high so there's no need for a draw bridge or the Buffalo River needs to be closed off. I'm still for demolishing the Skyway though because there's been a lot of development in that area but it's hard to access, even if you have a car. The best way to get to the outer harbor right now is to go to Canalside and take a $1 trip on the bike ferry. It's a great time and a fun place to walk/bike around and have a picnic tbh.
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The Skyway doesn't need to exist. It sits right next to Furhmann Boulevard, which is underused because the Skyway is right there, and so removing it wouldn't stop commuter traffic. The problem is that Fuhrmann Boulevard sits on a large isthmus and removing the Skyway would require at least one commuter bridge. A bridge exists on only one side of the isthmus, at South Michigan Street, and so one would need to be built to link to Furhmann Boulevard. There's a bridge further away at Ohio Street too. What the South Michigan Street and Ohio Street bridges have in common is that they're really old and honestly need to be replaced before the Skyway can be torn down. One of the biggest reasons people don't use them often is because they're draw bridges that allow boats to sail down the Buffalo River and into Lake Erie & the Niagara River. Either they're gonna have to be really high so there's no need for a draw bridge or the Buffalo River needs to be closed off. I'm still for demolishing the Skyway though because there's been a lot of development in that area but it's hard to access, even if you have a car. The best way to get to the outer harbor right now is to go to Canalside and take a $1 trip on the bike ferry. It's a great time and a fun place to walk/bike around and have a picnic tbh.
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baronvonjo1929
I feel like its telling how it only made sense when the highway is barely used due to people fleeing the area.
It sounds and looks awesome. Cant imagine it in my area however. Our highways in upstate SC cant even handle our ever growing population. The sprawl and the far distances between homes, businesses, and places of interest make any alternative to private car a impossibility. Or at least it will leave hundreds of thousands out of such a plan and only benefit those privileged enough to be nearby. Thats a trend I noticed. All the nice urban areas that are walkable are only for their wealthy in every city Ive ever been too. The suburbs are the only option unless you want to live far away in a low income low opportunity rural environment.
Thats the issues I see with all alternatives to cars. The buildings and people are to spread out to make anything other than cars to work in the current guise. Cities in their current guise arent affordable. Suburbs are just barely more affordable. At least in my area. I doubt they will ever make large scale desirable affordable housing in my life.
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I feel like its telling how it only made sense when the highway is barely used due to people fleeing the area.
It sounds and looks awesome. Cant imagine it in my area however. Our highways in upstate SC cant even handle our ever growing population. The sprawl and the far distances between homes, businesses, and places of interest make any alternative to private car a impossibility. Or at least it will leave hundreds of thousands out of such a plan and only benefit those privileged enough to be nearby. Thats a trend I noticed. All the nice urban areas that are walkable are only for their wealthy in every city Ive ever been too. The suburbs are the only option unless you want to live far away in a low income low opportunity rural environment.
Thats the issues I see with all alternatives to cars. The buildings and people are to spread out to make anything other than cars to work in the current guise. Cities in their current guise arent affordable. Suburbs are just barely more affordable. At least in my area. I doubt they will ever make large scale desirable affordable housing in my life.
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sharpie660
Unfortunately Toronto is at a low point when it comes to removal of the Gardiner Expressway. The Expressway is crumbling and needs a commitment to either tear it down or repair it. While Toronto recently elected a mayor who is positive for alternative forms of transportation, she was elected at a time of huge budget deficit and was hamstrung. In a you-gotta-do-what-you-gotta-do moment, she essentially sold the Expressway to the provincial government. This took a huge load off the books, but the conservative provincial government represents commuter car drivers, not city-dwellers (who are credited for electing the mayor. I'm sure you can guess what the premier / governor chose to do with it (reinvest in it.
The greatest irony is that Toronto is actually growing very fast right now, but that means that the real estate is insanely valuable. Building new housing, more efficient transit solutions, and productive commercial spaces would be a way better use of resources. But it's out of the hands of those who want it gone.
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Unfortunately Toronto is at a low point when it comes to removal of the Gardiner Expressway. The Expressway is crumbling and needs a commitment to either tear it down or repair it. While Toronto recently elected a mayor who is positive for alternative forms of transportation, she was elected at a time of huge budget deficit and was hamstrung. In a you-gotta-do-what-you-gotta-do moment, she essentially sold the Expressway to the provincial government. This took a huge load off the books, but the conservative provincial government represents commuter car drivers, not city-dwellers (who are credited for electing the mayor. I'm sure you can guess what the premier / governor chose to do with it (reinvest in it.
The greatest irony is that Toronto is actually growing very fast right now, but that means that the real estate is insanely valuable. Building new housing, more efficient transit solutions, and productive commercial spaces would be a way better use of resources. But it's out of the hands of those who want it gone.
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thelostborough5214
Always nice to see us getting recognized for doing something right, even if it was originally something we did wrong. The intent of the Inner Loop is noble, to relieve the traffic commute for suburbanites into the Center City neighborhood for work, but its execution and immediate effects (razing houses and cutting neighborhoods up, and creating a visual moat around the central business district) were detrimental to city development. Also love that projections graph you shared, as a MAJOR complaint that Inner Loop supporters STILL gloat about is how much traffic the IL was funneling, which studies have contradicted, but supporters persist.
One small point of correction: Union Street is not the old Inner Loop. Union ran next to the Inner Loop and never changed, though the traffic pattern did (it's two way now, was one way before. The old Inner Loop is where the apartment buildings and parks are now.
Thank you for the positive light shed on Rochester! We need all we can get.
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Always nice to see us getting recognized for doing something right, even if it was originally something we did wrong. The intent of the Inner Loop is noble, to relieve the traffic commute for suburbanites into the Center City neighborhood for work, but its execution and immediate effects (razing houses and cutting neighborhoods up, and creating a visual moat around the central business district) were detrimental to city development. Also love that projections graph you shared, as a MAJOR complaint that Inner Loop supporters STILL gloat about is how much traffic the IL was funneling, which studies have contradicted, but supporters persist.
One small point of correction: Union Street is not the old Inner Loop. Union ran next to the Inner Loop and never changed, though the traffic pattern did (it's two way now, was one way before. The old Inner Loop is where the apartment buildings and parks are now.
Thank you for the positive light shed on Rochester! We need all we can get.
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benceseger7748
To me, as someone who grew up in Europe it's wild that so-called engineers think it's a good idea to build highways through cities dividing neighborhoods. In most European countries, highways go around cities, and then they join into local roads. In my local area, in a small country in Central Europe, there's a highway (not like a US freeway) that connects three county capitals (two university cities, and many smaller, but important cities. At one section, the highway used to go through the second largest city in the neighboring county. They decided to build huge infrastructure to bypass the city, and it connects the highway to nearby smaller towns and villages. They built an impressive roundabout on a bridge. This is what highways should be like.
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To me, as someone who grew up in Europe it's wild that so-called engineers think it's a good idea to build highways through cities dividing neighborhoods. In most European countries, highways go around cities, and then they join into local roads. In my local area, in a small country in Central Europe, there's a highway (not like a US freeway) that connects three county capitals (two university cities, and many smaller, but important cities. At one section, the highway used to go through the second largest city in the neighboring county. They decided to build huge infrastructure to bypass the city, and it connects the highway to nearby smaller towns and villages. They built an impressive roundabout on a bridge. This is what highways should be like.
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city_beautiful
I'm glad to see you guys slowly untangle yourselves from the car infested mess that is those huge ugly highways and move more towards roads and boulevards we have in Europe instead! It'll take a while before there will also be things included like specific tram- and bus lanes, but you'll get there eventually I'm sure.
But, since I'm from Europe, I noticed these are mainly happening in the so called 'blue' states where Democrats are in power. I also noticed it's mainly 'red' states like Arizona and Texas that suffer the worst with these _huge_ 6 to 8 lane highways, so I'm curious - are there any projects regarding the tearing down of highways happening in these places It would be a positive sign for infrastructure in general were that the case.
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I'm glad to see you guys slowly untangle yourselves from the car infested mess that is those huge ugly highways and move more towards roads and boulevards we have in Europe instead! It'll take a while before there will also be things included like specific tram- and bus lanes, but you'll get there eventually I'm sure.
But, since I'm from Europe, I noticed these are mainly happening in the so called 'blue' states where Democrats are in power. I also noticed it's mainly 'red' states like Arizona and Texas that suffer the worst with these _huge_ 6 to 8 lane highways, so I'm curious - are there any projects regarding the tearing down of highways happening in these places It would be a positive sign for infrastructure in general were that the case.
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jamesswords6425
While I agree we should stitch our communities together again, be mindful that a highway can be someone's ticket to housing. Urban and suburban highways give many folks an opportunity to drive to affordable housing and still have economic opportunities. It's not lost on me that most of these removals are in affordable areas, people there don't need expressways to get to cheaper housing. The more unaffordable a metro is the more necessary the highway may be for housing options; at least until nimbyism can be defeated and high rise high density housing is the norm. The one I saw missing from your list was I375 in Detroit. Seems like a candidate for redevelopment.
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While I agree we should stitch our communities together again, be mindful that a highway can be someone's ticket to housing. Urban and suburban highways give many folks an opportunity to drive to affordable housing and still have economic opportunities. It's not lost on me that most of these removals are in affordable areas, people there don't need expressways to get to cheaper housing. The more unaffordable a metro is the more necessary the highway may be for housing options; at least until nimbyism can be defeated and high rise high density housing is the norm. The one I saw missing from your list was I375 in Detroit. Seems like a candidate for redevelopment.
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city_beautiful
I'd be interested in hearing more about your thoughts on the Kensington Expressway in Buffalo. The State DOT wants to put a cap over it, essentially turning a portion into a tunnel. The community group mentioned is fighting this, arguing to remove it altogether. Problem is, it's the main route into the city for all the suburban commuters, and sees a huge amount of volume. I understand the view of well I guess the suburban dwellers will just have to tough it out, but the reality is, without their support, and with the opposition of the community, what is likely to occur is absolutely nothing, maintaining the status quo.
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I'd be interested in hearing more about your thoughts on the Kensington Expressway in Buffalo. The State DOT wants to put a cap over it, essentially turning a portion into a tunnel. The community group mentioned is fighting this, arguing to remove it altogether. Problem is, it's the main route into the city for all the suburban commuters, and sees a huge amount of volume. I understand the view of well I guess the suburban dwellers will just have to tough it out, but the reality is, without their support, and with the opposition of the community, what is likely to occur is absolutely nothing, maintaining the status quo.
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johnnguyen6159
So in my area they want to tear down a below grade freeway next to Downtown which is good. However the replacement is going to potentially be a 9 lane stroad based on the DOT's traffic calculations. There has been a lot of push back by the public but it seems like the community is losing. So the question is which is worse a below grade freeway or surface level 9 lane stroad
My sort of conspiracy theory is that DOT would want to make the road as wide as possible for more funding. This is why projects like this should not be lead by the state DOT especially considering they can barely maintain our roads.
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So in my area they want to tear down a below grade freeway next to Downtown which is good. However the replacement is going to potentially be a 9 lane stroad based on the DOT's traffic calculations. There has been a lot of push back by the public but it seems like the community is losing. So the question is which is worse a below grade freeway or surface level 9 lane stroad
My sort of conspiracy theory is that DOT would want to make the road as wide as possible for more funding. This is why projects like this should not be lead by the state DOT especially considering they can barely maintain our roads.
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Zenas521
If I heard you right, people said that regional is more important than local. However, it is the local that pay the taxes, so if Syracuse wants more tax dollars they need to put the local people first. Taring down I-81 will increase the value of the land and increase the economic growth along the boulevard.
I understand that the convenience of I-81 will be removed, but the regional people need to understand when you don't live somewhere, your opinion doesn't hold weight without bribery. Bribery is a federal offence deserving of prison, so don't bother. prison is more inconvenient than a boulevard. Lol
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If I heard you right, people said that regional is more important than local. However, it is the local that pay the taxes, so if Syracuse wants more tax dollars they need to put the local people first. Taring down I-81 will increase the value of the land and increase the economic growth along the boulevard.
I understand that the convenience of I-81 will be removed, but the regional people need to understand when you don't live somewhere, your opinion doesn't hold weight without bribery. Bribery is a federal offence deserving of prison, so don't bother. prison is more inconvenient than a boulevard. Lol
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poohoo4495
All the highways in the outer boroughs that are half completed thanks to Robert Moses failing like the Sheridan Expressway should be removed completely. The perfect example is the Prospect expressway where 1/4 is only built and the rest is just a wide at grade street, the KWVP in Staten Island and I-295 in Queens are nowhere near finished and never will be as the right of way is completely developed or protected by conservancy. This is just unnecessary car infrastructure that wastes some of the most expensive real estate in the country, in a city where 60% of residents don’t even own a car.
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All the highways in the outer boroughs that are half completed thanks to Robert Moses failing like the Sheridan Expressway should be removed completely. The perfect example is the Prospect expressway where 1/4 is only built and the rest is just a wide at grade street, the KWVP in Staten Island and I-295 in Queens are nowhere near finished and never will be as the right of way is completely developed or protected by conservancy. This is just unnecessary car infrastructure that wastes some of the most expensive real estate in the country, in a city where 60% of residents don’t even own a car.
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tristanridley1601
Toronto's Gardiner doesn't belong on this list at all. Toronto's NOT shrinking. It's growing as fast as we can build housing.
Downtown Toronto is also growing rapidly, and the Gardiner is completely congested with traffic.
The reason to get rid of the Gardiner is completely opposite: It's entirely too small for Toronto, and there is physically no room for a larger highway. It's also incredibly expensive since it's elevated. Compared to GO and the TTC it serves such a tiny minority of the population, and it makes it impossible to justify the huge cost in dollars and land.
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Toronto's Gardiner doesn't belong on this list at all. Toronto's NOT shrinking. It's growing as fast as we can build housing.
Downtown Toronto is also growing rapidly, and the Gardiner is completely congested with traffic.
The reason to get rid of the Gardiner is completely opposite: It's entirely too small for Toronto, and there is physically no room for a larger highway. It's also incredibly expensive since it's elevated. Compared to GO and the TTC it serves such a tiny minority of the population, and it makes it impossible to justify the huge cost in dollars and land.
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thepushupskid
There's a road just outside my neighborhood, 2 minute walk, and there's a corner store i love just across it. I can never walk there, due to the amount of people that run the red light. It is a 6 lane road intersecting 3 lanes on each side. It connects thousands of people, so I want to propose a solution. Pedestrian/Bike Highways. Build them on top of the road, and make connections to each sidewalk that needs connecting, and now I can go across easily, and bike down to the highway south and north of me. It would fix so much and get more people walking, which is exercise.
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There's a road just outside my neighborhood, 2 minute walk, and there's a corner store i love just across it. I can never walk there, due to the amount of people that run the red light. It is a 6 lane road intersecting 3 lanes on each side. It connects thousands of people, so I want to propose a solution. Pedestrian/Bike Highways. Build them on top of the road, and make connections to each sidewalk that needs connecting, and now I can go across easily, and bike down to the highway south and north of me. It would fix so much and get more people walking, which is exercise.
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sea80vicvan
A note on the graph of the SR 520 usage at 3: 22: the reason the actual use is way below projections is because the bridge is tolled to pay off the construction costs. Drivers around here are notorious for not wanting to pay tolls if they can avoid it, thinking all roads should be free (they are heavily subsidized and we pay indirectly anyway. As it is a bridge across Lake Washington, most people that are going between Seattle and Bellevue/Eastside just take the longer routes either north via I 405/SR 522 or south via I 90.
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A note on the graph of the SR 520 usage at 3: 22: the reason the actual use is way below projections is because the bridge is tolled to pay off the construction costs. Drivers around here are notorious for not wanting to pay tolls if they can avoid it, thinking all roads should be free (they are heavily subsidized and we pay indirectly anyway. As it is a bridge across Lake Washington, most people that are going between Seattle and Bellevue/Eastside just take the longer routes either north via I 405/SR 522 or south via I 90.
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darinbauer8122
Telegraph Ave in Berkeley & Oakland are on multinodal but all that means is that the community still doesn't have light rail. I was hoping you would look at the economic history of 580 / now Nelson Mandela Parkway & make comparison to other such areas. The KC hw approach that was a WW1) memorial natural space. We have one in Berkeley for the first war, Olmstead act, it was the Oak Grove, the world's longest urban treesit of 649 days to preserve wild life. I'm really glad you mentioned activism.
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Telegraph Ave in Berkeley & Oakland are on multinodal but all that means is that the community still doesn't have light rail. I was hoping you would look at the economic history of 580 / now Nelson Mandela Parkway & make comparison to other such areas. The KC hw approach that was a WW1) memorial natural space. We have one in Berkeley for the first war, Olmstead act, it was the Oak Grove, the world's longest urban treesit of 649 days to preserve wild life. I'm really glad you mentioned activism.
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katrinhasnolife
Minneapolis has 2 highway projects with options to remove them. Part of I94 connecting Minneapolis and St. Paul (they're also throwing around giving it a landbridge instead) and Olson Memorial Highway(very old and no longer really used. Olson Memorial is still taking comments. Both are along tram lines.
I think Olson will changed as only one option keeps it as big as it is, but i94 is getting a lot of push back. Locals want it gone but the city seems bent on keeping it.
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Minneapolis has 2 highway projects with options to remove them. Part of I94 connecting Minneapolis and St. Paul (they're also throwing around giving it a landbridge instead) and Olson Memorial Highway(very old and no longer really used. Olson Memorial is still taking comments. Both are along tram lines.
I think Olson will changed as only one option keeps it as big as it is, but i94 is getting a lot of push back. Locals want it gone but the city seems bent on keeping it.
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city_beautiful
Halifax Nova Scotia is in the process of removing its highway from downtown. We had a bit of luck years ago in stopping the full construction of the harbour highway, but a large interchange was built and has spent the last 55 years falling apart. Just as expected, it was an easy political call to remove instead of repair, and the city hopes to make millions from the land sales from the excess land with the much reduced street grid vs the old interchange.
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Halifax Nova Scotia is in the process of removing its highway from downtown. We had a bit of luck years ago in stopping the full construction of the harbour highway, but a large interchange was built and has spent the last 55 years falling apart. Just as expected, it was an easy political call to remove instead of repair, and the city hopes to make millions from the land sales from the excess land with the much reduced street grid vs the old interchange.
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Freck1886
Will you please do a video about burring railways in the city center. Reno and Denver have done this and there is a plan in Salt Lake City called the Rio Grande Plan that has made a very compelling argument to dig a trench and burry the rail corridor and open up about 70 acres of land for development. It would also restore the historic train depot to allow for it to actually be used for its purpose again.
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Will you please do a video about burring railways in the city center. Reno and Denver have done this and there is a plan in Salt Lake City called the Rio Grande Plan that has made a very compelling argument to dig a trench and burry the rail corridor and open up about 70 acres of land for development. It would also restore the historic train depot to allow for it to actually be used for its purpose again.
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jamalgibson8139
My only complaint here is the idea that highways are a good thing if there is a lot of traffic. Ultimately, we should all understand that building highways won't actually help traffic. If Rochester needed a system that had the capacity to handle 200k people per day, a rail system would make much more sense. I don't know why it's so hard for cities in the US to just build rail.
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My only complaint here is the idea that highways are a good thing if there is a lot of traffic. Ultimately, we should all understand that building highways won't actually help traffic. If Rochester needed a system that had the capacity to handle 200k people per day, a rail system would make much more sense. I don't know why it's so hard for cities in the US to just build rail.
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