The Twindexx Swiss Express - is SBB's flagship a disaster?
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Date: 2024-01-09
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Comments and reviews: 35
-aurelspecker6740
I think that train gets more blame than it should. Yes, it was terrible in the beginning: Doors didn't close, reboots actually took even longer than 40 mins, multiple years too late etc.
However, the -failure distance- (average distance travelled on average between critical failures) is now well beyond 10 000 km / failure. Which is the rate of the IC2000, the predecessor known as a very reliable train. So, from a this aspect, it is performing now extremely well. (Of course, after 6 years of fixing problems while being LIVE)
When it comes to the shakiness I think people are just much more prone to check it while being on this train. So it's kind of a prejudice bias. Tests showed, that it is now about as shaky as the IC2000 trains (which is still pretty shaky, but not really worse.
Howevery, it used to be extremely worse. I actually had the -luck- to use a train with the original active inclination software. And at low speed, that shaking would have thrown your bottle straight on the ground. In the end, all but the first trains delivered (I think 6 or so) were updated before being taken into service.
The comfortablity, is something that can be argued very well against this train. I think SBB puts a lot of effort on capacity rather than comfort when it comes to national IR and IC trains. Which is understandable, because most travellers use it for less than 2 hours. Much in contrast to the ICs of bigger countries. (Giruno and other trains for international routes are incredibly comfortable on the other hand)
In conclusion: I think it's a great train, after the really rough birth.
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I think that train gets more blame than it should. Yes, it was terrible in the beginning: Doors didn't close, reboots actually took even longer than 40 mins, multiple years too late etc.
However, the -failure distance- (average distance travelled on average between critical failures) is now well beyond 10 000 km / failure. Which is the rate of the IC2000, the predecessor known as a very reliable train. So, from a this aspect, it is performing now extremely well. (Of course, after 6 years of fixing problems while being LIVE)
When it comes to the shakiness I think people are just much more prone to check it while being on this train. So it's kind of a prejudice bias. Tests showed, that it is now about as shaky as the IC2000 trains (which is still pretty shaky, but not really worse.
Howevery, it used to be extremely worse. I actually had the -luck- to use a train with the original active inclination software. And at low speed, that shaking would have thrown your bottle straight on the ground. In the end, all but the first trains delivered (I think 6 or so) were updated before being taken into service.
The comfortablity, is something that can be argued very well against this train. I think SBB puts a lot of effort on capacity rather than comfort when it comes to national IR and IC trains. Which is understandable, because most travellers use it for less than 2 hours. Much in contrast to the ICs of bigger countries. (Giruno and other trains for international routes are incredibly comfortable on the other hand)
In conclusion: I think it's a great train, after the really rough birth.
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-mcapple4769
The designer of this train should be forced to use him every day. -
The train is ok, when you use him with some light hand lugagge and dont plan to work on your travel.
But with bigger suitcases. My big one (110l) has a practicaly scratch resistant surface, he survived several flights and was looking like new.
Until he entered this train. There are some extra compartements for suitcases and they are, like the over head compartements, realy small. But for some inexplicable reason they decided to install some large metal electrical outlets in the only compartement for large suitcases.
The train is not overall bad, so most compositions have extra compartments for travellers with strollers, in which the seats can be folded up. A good idea, just the designers again.
The seats are hardly padded and the joints are very wide. If you are not a mannequin with toddlers hips, you will experience a very uncomfortable train ride.
And this design fails you can find in the whole train.
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The designer of this train should be forced to use him every day. -
The train is ok, when you use him with some light hand lugagge and dont plan to work on your travel.
But with bigger suitcases. My big one (110l) has a practicaly scratch resistant surface, he survived several flights and was looking like new.
Until he entered this train. There are some extra compartements for suitcases and they are, like the over head compartements, realy small. But for some inexplicable reason they decided to install some large metal electrical outlets in the only compartement for large suitcases.
The train is not overall bad, so most compositions have extra compartments for travellers with strollers, in which the seats can be folded up. A good idea, just the designers again.
The seats are hardly padded and the joints are very wide. If you are not a mannequin with toddlers hips, you will experience a very uncomfortable train ride.
And this design fails you can find in the whole train.
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-largol33t1
I remember taking SBB on a trip from Zuerich to Milan once. My silly father was too used to the lousy trains in the US and said, don't worry, they'll leave at 9 30 (the ticket said 9 00. I had to press the importance to him and said loudly -Dad, we are in SWITZERLAND. This is a country that lives by the clock. I do not think they'll be late. - He still didn't believe me! I ignored him. If he missed the train, that was his decision. I grabbed my bag started walking as fast as I could, trying to find the right platform. Found it. It was 8 57. I was now running, praying I wouldn't bump into someone, trip and lose my luggage. Made it at 8 59. When I got to the cabin, it was EXACTLY 9 and yes, the train started moving. Saw one or two running shouting -Wait for meeeee! - -- My silly parents go on board just in time. The door slammed shut once my father stepped onto the train! Can't get any closer than that!
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I remember taking SBB on a trip from Zuerich to Milan once. My silly father was too used to the lousy trains in the US and said, don't worry, they'll leave at 9 30 (the ticket said 9 00. I had to press the importance to him and said loudly -Dad, we are in SWITZERLAND. This is a country that lives by the clock. I do not think they'll be late. - He still didn't believe me! I ignored him. If he missed the train, that was his decision. I grabbed my bag started walking as fast as I could, trying to find the right platform. Found it. It was 8 57. I was now running, praying I wouldn't bump into someone, trip and lose my luggage. Made it at 8 59. When I got to the cabin, it was EXACTLY 9 and yes, the train started moving. Saw one or two running shouting -Wait for meeeee! - -- My silly parents go on board just in time. The door slammed shut once my father stepped onto the train! Can't get any closer than that!
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train
Great work there, and it's so sad that in 2018 Bombardier still couldn't deliver double-deck coaches that don't shake weirdly. Same happened with the belgian M6 and the german IC2 (both at 200kmh, which were both limited at 160kmh. When you realize that there are double-deck high speed trains in France and Japan since more than two decades.
Also, the concept of the flat upper-lever and low boarding doors is interesting, but suffers from the small european loading gauge. 70% of the train interior is therefore too narrow and offers very limited luggage space (especially the overhead racks.
If Europe wants to increase railway capacity and competitiveness, it should work on adapting its network to a larger gauge, one that allows real luggage space on the upper level, true double deck sleeper cars, and freight trains with containers piled up. (of course, that'd be a super-massive investment)
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Great work there, and it's so sad that in 2018 Bombardier still couldn't deliver double-deck coaches that don't shake weirdly. Same happened with the belgian M6 and the german IC2 (both at 200kmh, which were both limited at 160kmh. When you realize that there are double-deck high speed trains in France and Japan since more than two decades.
Also, the concept of the flat upper-lever and low boarding doors is interesting, but suffers from the small european loading gauge. 70% of the train interior is therefore too narrow and offers very limited luggage space (especially the overhead racks.
If Europe wants to increase railway capacity and competitiveness, it should work on adapting its network to a larger gauge, one that allows real luggage space on the upper level, true double deck sleeper cars, and freight trains with containers piled up. (of course, that'd be a super-massive investment)
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-davidorf3921
For those people arriving by plane at Geneva airport and taking the train to a final destination an hour or more away there is no need to buy expensive food on the train, within the train station at the airport is a Migros Supermarket where you can get all sorts of food and drinks at more reasonable prices, go past the ticket area and the first escalators down to the platform level and you will find it at the other end of the station, a far more economic arrangement if travelling as a family. As mentioned below you can by train tickets for a lot less if you buy in advance, however since the arrival times can change and delays getting baggage can occur it may be better to get a saver day pass than a supersaver ticket, the saverday pass covers the entire day but you need to buy in advance, get it 60 days before you travel for the best deals
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For those people arriving by plane at Geneva airport and taking the train to a final destination an hour or more away there is no need to buy expensive food on the train, within the train station at the airport is a Migros Supermarket where you can get all sorts of food and drinks at more reasonable prices, go past the ticket area and the first escalators down to the platform level and you will find it at the other end of the station, a far more economic arrangement if travelling as a family. As mentioned below you can by train tickets for a lot less if you buy in advance, however since the arrival times can change and delays getting baggage can occur it may be better to get a saver day pass than a supersaver ticket, the saverday pass covers the entire day but you need to buy in advance, get it 60 days before you travel for the best deals
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-LaFeuilleAF
A train ticket from Geneva airport to Zurich actually costs over $ 80 USD, not 37 $ (unless you have some sort of special pass, which most of tourists don't. Trains, and public transport in overall, are really expensive in Switzerland, and contrary to what people may think, it's not always good. I guess the -It's impressive how effective and punctual SBB is- will make most of swiss people laugh! Geneva Airport train station is the first station of that train's journey, so that's probably why it was on time lol
We like to -sell- a good image of our country, but I guess that's what we're good at, selling things, including illusions. Don't get me wrong, it is a rather nice country to live in compared to many others, but it's not that fantasy dream-like country we like to imagine.
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A train ticket from Geneva airport to Zurich actually costs over $ 80 USD, not 37 $ (unless you have some sort of special pass, which most of tourists don't. Trains, and public transport in overall, are really expensive in Switzerland, and contrary to what people may think, it's not always good. I guess the -It's impressive how effective and punctual SBB is- will make most of swiss people laugh! Geneva Airport train station is the first station of that train's journey, so that's probably why it was on time lol
We like to -sell- a good image of our country, but I guess that's what we're good at, selling things, including illusions. Don't get me wrong, it is a rather nice country to live in compared to many others, but it's not that fantasy dream-like country we like to imagine.
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-dglcomputers1498
Not surprised a Bombadier (even now they are Alstom) having problems, their new trains here in the UK have been beset with problems, there has been issues with a signalling contract for London Underground and recent London Underground train orders. Plus Austria ended up cancelling their order with them.
It's generally thought that when buying rolling stock the answer is Siemens now what is the question.
When they built the 444's and 450's for SWT they got data on how crap the 3rd rail power was and emulated that on their test track, they seem to be big on making sure there are no problems from the start and if there are issued will work with the customer to get things sorted, other companies seem to think -it's not our problem guv, must be your dodgy infastructure-.
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Not surprised a Bombadier (even now they are Alstom) having problems, their new trains here in the UK have been beset with problems, there has been issues with a signalling contract for London Underground and recent London Underground train orders. Plus Austria ended up cancelling their order with them.
It's generally thought that when buying rolling stock the answer is Siemens now what is the question.
When they built the 444's and 450's for SWT they got data on how crap the 3rd rail power was and emulated that on their test track, they seem to be big on making sure there are no problems from the start and if there are issued will work with the customer to get things sorted, other companies seem to think -it's not our problem guv, must be your dodgy infastructure-.
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-francess6161
I make a 4 hour round trip on exactly this train at least every two weeks and you may have solved a mystery for me. I find that if I read a book or my phone, watch a movie on my iPad or use my computer for more than 20 minutes I start to feel travel sick. This never used to happen to me ever before on trains, although I have never been able to read on a car trip without feeling sick. But now it makes sense. It-s the subtle shaking and extra movement of my book or computer that is triggering it. Back to just staring out the window for me. At least the view in Switzerland is usually worth looking at.
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I make a 4 hour round trip on exactly this train at least every two weeks and you may have solved a mystery for me. I find that if I read a book or my phone, watch a movie on my iPad or use my computer for more than 20 minutes I start to feel travel sick. This never used to happen to me ever before on trains, although I have never been able to read on a car trip without feeling sick. But now it makes sense. It-s the subtle shaking and extra movement of my book or computer that is triggering it. Back to just staring out the window for me. At least the view in Switzerland is usually worth looking at.
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-luke211286
We took this train last month from Bern to St Gallen. We took our chances with first class (which we rarely do considering the price) as we have some heavy luggage and bet on odds that our carriage is empty. Luckily, it paid off and we had the whole wagon to ourselves for the most part of the 2-hour trip. Being on the lower deck, I haven't experienced any issues by many passengers and I honestly thought it was a decent enough train (way better than most British trains equivalent to an Intercity.
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We took this train last month from Bern to St Gallen. We took our chances with first class (which we rarely do considering the price) as we have some heavy luggage and bet on odds that our carriage is empty. Luckily, it paid off and we had the whole wagon to ourselves for the most part of the 2-hour trip. Being on the lower deck, I haven't experienced any issues by many passengers and I honestly thought it was a decent enough train (way better than most British trains equivalent to an Intercity.
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-simonpilk
I have travelled on many types of train within Europe and I agree that these 502 Twindexx are really not a good train and a backward step for SBB in terms of train quality with their uncomfortable and shaking ride. I agree that the IC2000 (IC2020) are far superior and have always been a really good train. In terms of a modern multiple unit (triebwagen) then the Class 501 units that SBB also have are really superior and I think are comfortable units. 502 though: (
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I have travelled on many types of train within Europe and I agree that these 502 Twindexx are really not a good train and a backward step for SBB in terms of train quality with their uncomfortable and shaking ride. I agree that the IC2000 (IC2020) are far superior and have always been a really good train. In terms of a modern multiple unit (triebwagen) then the Class 501 units that SBB also have are really superior and I think are comfortable units. 502 though: (
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-aoilpe
SBB won several awards for the pictograms.
Oh, listen, the departure of the -old- Re460 is soooo silent! No ear-splitting, deafening electronic screaming-! No Bomardier, no Alstom but SLM/ABB!
Bikes should be hung in the bike rack!
All toilets in modern Swiss trains are for disabled persons too-
The food is pre-cooked and steam heated. Btw, in the -90 some dining -cars on this line were operated by McDo-
I love to travel in Swiss trains!
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SBB won several awards for the pictograms.
Oh, listen, the departure of the -old- Re460 is soooo silent! No ear-splitting, deafening electronic screaming-! No Bomardier, no Alstom but SLM/ABB!
Bikes should be hung in the bike rack!
All toilets in modern Swiss trains are for disabled persons too-
The food is pre-cooked and steam heated. Btw, in the -90 some dining -cars on this line were operated by McDo-
I love to travel in Swiss trains!
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-Nionity
i dont think its a disastertrain.
It just needs its work done and when the developement is finished it has alot of potential. but since the breakup of Bombardier that will be delayed.
i think the dutch SNG is a absolute disastertrain and its just waiting for a major accident since that happens quite regularily in holland.
front side is lituarly made of plastic.
Anyway the RABe/RABDe 502 is a okay train but could be better for sure.
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i dont think its a disastertrain.
It just needs its work done and when the developement is finished it has alot of potential. but since the breakup of Bombardier that will be delayed.
i think the dutch SNG is a absolute disastertrain and its just waiting for a major accident since that happens quite regularily in holland.
front side is lituarly made of plastic.
Anyway the RABe/RABDe 502 is a okay train but could be better for sure.
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-BobTravellin
Swiss Railways is probably the best in the world IMO. I've worked a lot in the country, before I retired, and been on several routes, and the GVA - ZUR one is still my favourite. I used to fly into ZUR on a monday morning anf pick up the train to GVA to be in the office there by lunchtime. Coming out of the tunnel above Montreux with the entire Lake Leman spread out before you, vineyards everywhere, never fails to excite. Wonderful.
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Swiss Railways is probably the best in the world IMO. I've worked a lot in the country, before I retired, and been on several routes, and the GVA - ZUR one is still my favourite. I used to fly into ZUR on a monday morning anf pick up the train to GVA to be in the office there by lunchtime. Coming out of the tunnel above Montreux with the entire Lake Leman spread out before you, vineyards everywhere, never fails to excite. Wonderful.
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train
Few of us like them.
There is nowhere to put luggage, the ride quality is a big step back from the -Rolls-Royce- smooth double deckers in service for 20 years.
The top and bottom decks seem less spacious than the predecessor.
The restaurant on the top deck is nice, but so was the predecessor.
But the train accelerates more quickly and seems a lot lighter, which is probably why it was bought.
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Few of us like them.
There is nowhere to put luggage, the ride quality is a big step back from the -Rolls-Royce- smooth double deckers in service for 20 years.
The top and bottom decks seem less spacious than the predecessor.
The restaurant on the top deck is nice, but so was the predecessor.
But the train accelerates more quickly and seems a lot lighter, which is probably why it was bought.
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train
This ALSTOM (former BOMBARDIER) train is the worst investment SBB ever did.
It is not only the shaking or the unreliability, no it is also the selection of the materials.
The train is fitted with materials giving off vapors that irritate the respiratory tract, trigger coughing fits and can lead to extreme headaches.
Insiders avoid the trains as much as possible.
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This ALSTOM (former BOMBARDIER) train is the worst investment SBB ever did.
It is not only the shaking or the unreliability, no it is also the selection of the materials.
The train is fitted with materials giving off vapors that irritate the respiratory tract, trigger coughing fits and can lead to extreme headaches.
Insiders avoid the trains as much as possible.
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-royoflanagan
I take this train several times a week. It is generally very smooth and reliable and is at least as comfortable as the other models but the popular press have been hyped up against it by Stadler Rail who lost the contract and whose owner is a former right wing politician for whom anything -not Swiss- (ie Bombardier even though built in Switzerland) must be shit.
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I take this train several times a week. It is generally very smooth and reliable and is at least as comfortable as the other models but the popular press have been hyped up against it by Stadler Rail who lost the contract and whose owner is a former right wing politician for whom anything -not Swiss- (ie Bombardier even though built in Switzerland) must be shit.
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-franzbrunner499
just recently went from Zurich Flughafen to Lausanne -as expected the train is very clean -but as soon as the train ran at higher speeds, a gentle, but constant (and therefore very annoying) slight shaking occurred -excuse me! -if i think of the smooth rides with Shinkansen trains. and they run at far higher speed -very disappointing that SBB accepted it
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just recently went from Zurich Flughafen to Lausanne -as expected the train is very clean -but as soon as the train ran at higher speeds, a gentle, but constant (and therefore very annoying) slight shaking occurred -excuse me! -if i think of the smooth rides with Shinkansen trains. and they run at far higher speed -very disappointing that SBB accepted it
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-tbettems
Ah, the view on Lavaux. Always a hit. I recommend though to experience it the other way: From Bern to Lausanne. You suddently get out of the tunnel and. Bang! - I've been living all my life between Geneva and Lausanne. When I was at the military, I took this line every weekend. After a rough week, I see this view, and all I think is: Dang, I'm back home.
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Ah, the view on Lavaux. Always a hit. I recommend though to experience it the other way: From Bern to Lausanne. You suddently get out of the tunnel and. Bang! - I've been living all my life between Geneva and Lausanne. When I was at the military, I took this line every weekend. After a rough week, I see this view, and all I think is: Dang, I'm back home.
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-RonK
you have space for luggage wherever two seats are arranged back-to-back - the -inverted-V--space is meant to hold luggage in addition to the central storage area. As for the shakiness - the train-staff gets upper- and lower-leg bruises on a regular basis whenever bumped into seats during random shaking while working through those trains
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you have space for luggage wherever two seats are arranged back-to-back - the -inverted-V--space is meant to hold luggage in addition to the central storage area. As for the shakiness - the train-staff gets upper- and lower-leg bruises on a regular basis whenever bumped into seats during random shaking while working through those trains
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-freeskicdm
I love the Twindexx. Overhead space upstairs is a bit limited, but the logic is that people with big bags and gear will tend to stay on the lower deck.
The upper deck has a intimate feel and the quietness is sublime. Listening to rain patter off the roof while speeding through the country is just pure magic.
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I love the Twindexx. Overhead space upstairs is a bit limited, but the logic is that people with big bags and gear will tend to stay on the lower deck.
The upper deck has a intimate feel and the quietness is sublime. Listening to rain patter off the roof while speeding through the country is just pure magic.
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-bakelitsuisse7707
Simply put, you can't compare Bombardier's Twindexx to Stadler Rails Giruno. It would be a comparison between two different worlds. Never understood why SBB bought trains from Bombardier stuff when you have state of the art Swiss company building top notch trains!
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Simply put, you can't compare Bombardier's Twindexx to Stadler Rails Giruno. It would be a comparison between two different worlds. Never understood why SBB bought trains from Bombardier stuff when you have state of the art Swiss company building top notch trains!
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-araswil
After many of bugfixes it becomes bester and better. But still in some of the twintex is it like a bit in a boat with Waves. The biggest Issue is the entry Section. People in Wheelchairs experienced that the small Ramp can be a hughe Problem. This can't be fixed easy.
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After many of bugfixes it becomes bester and better. But still in some of the twintex is it like a bit in a boat with Waves. The biggest Issue is the entry Section. People in Wheelchairs experienced that the small Ramp can be a hughe Problem. This can't be fixed easy.
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-cubular3000
Wow. This was the first train we travelled on in Europe, when we visited Switzerland back in 2015. I was thinking to myself then -no wonder Europe is known for its trains. - What a surprise to hear about its many issues. Guess I need to go back to Europe again. -
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Wow. This was the first train we travelled on in Europe, when we visited Switzerland back in 2015. I was thinking to myself then -no wonder Europe is known for its trains. - What a surprise to hear about its many issues. Guess I need to go back to Europe again. -
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train
Not familiar with that many low cost railway options but instinct is confirmed seat reservations are important. If I took my daughters to London only to find out seats in different coaches or no seat at all would be fairly damning
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Not familiar with that many low cost railway options but instinct is confirmed seat reservations are important. If I took my daughters to London only to find out seats in different coaches or no seat at all would be fairly damning
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-MarcHatePage
6: 30 did you really pick the single place on the train where you are behind someone elses seat and then complain about the annoying placement of the bin? just go to a seat where you are facing another seat for more space
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6: 30 did you really pick the single place on the train where you are behind someone elses seat and then complain about the annoying placement of the bin? just go to a seat where you are facing another seat for more space
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-abelsuisse9671
One reason why there doesn't appear to be many luggage storage areas for an intercity train is that you are also meant to use the space between each set of 4 seats, which is a reason for the choice of that disposition.
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One reason why there doesn't appear to be many luggage storage areas for an intercity train is that you are also meant to use the space between each set of 4 seats, which is a reason for the choice of that disposition.
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-Someone-wh8hi
11: 33 the swiss often put their luggage between the backs of the seats. Thats why there are so many seats facing each other. Plus because people like to travel in groups and it's way better if you can see one another.
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11: 33 the swiss often put their luggage between the backs of the seats. Thats why there are so many seats facing each other. Plus because people like to travel in groups and it's way better if you can see one another.
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train
CHF4. 20 for a bottle of still water? Ouch. I'm constantly amazed at the cleanliness of Switzerland. This shows a great deal of national and civil pride. I can only hope this mentality will be adopted in the UK one day. :-(
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CHF4. 20 for a bottle of still water? Ouch. I'm constantly amazed at the cleanliness of Switzerland. This shows a great deal of national and civil pride. I can only hope this mentality will be adopted in the UK one day. :-(
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-tramlink8544
also as a tip, most rush hour ICs have 1st class single coaches that are repurposed as 2nd class, usually the first one at the front of the train, so you can ride first class comfort with 2nd class prices: )
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also as a tip, most rush hour ICs have 1st class single coaches that are repurposed as 2nd class, usually the first one at the front of the train, so you can ride first class comfort with 2nd class prices: )
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-N00N01
Yeah, less than 6 minutes is when you hire drivers being assined on a whim/to only go without fully turning aeound, bc then you can shut down the cab, get the other driver that then drives and have long breaks
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Yeah, less than 6 minutes is when you hire drivers being assined on a whim/to only go without fully turning aeound, bc then you can shut down the cab, get the other driver that then drives and have long breaks
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-hurlemoi
I have to take this train every day and it's a nightmare. There are still quite a lot of problems and delays when riding this train, so I finally decided to get a train earlier: slower, but reliable
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I have to take this train every day and it's a nightmare. There are still quite a lot of problems and delays when riding this train, so I finally decided to get a train earlier: slower, but reliable
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-WhoEls
I'm from Switzerland. The main problem is that they are built like commuting trains with sterile interior as if you could have surgery in there. Addtionally, there is almost no room for luggage.
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I'm from Switzerland. The main problem is that they are built like commuting trains with sterile interior as if you could have surgery in there. Addtionally, there is almost no room for luggage.
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-Nickayz2
I really prefer videos with talking - so I can listen to them while doing something else and occasionally looking on the screen. I hate when I have to read subtitles all the time.
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I really prefer videos with talking - so I can listen to them while doing something else and occasionally looking on the screen. I hate when I have to read subtitles all the time.
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-notroll1279
I'm a bit surprised to see this classified as an Intercity. it looks a bit like a Regionalexpress in Germany and not like something you'd want to do a trip of several hours on.
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I'm a bit surprised to see this classified as an Intercity. it looks a bit like a Regionalexpress in Germany and not like something you'd want to do a trip of several hours on.
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-triplediff
10: 45 If you left your suitcase in the luggage rack like a normal person walking through the train would be easy. Who with luggage goes to the top anyway?
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10: 45 If you left your suitcase in the luggage rack like a normal person walking through the train would be easy. Who with luggage goes to the top anyway?
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