Was Appeasement Justified? Documentary
video description
Superficially, that looks right but it's not. Since both the axis powers had used most of the 1930s building up their armed forces, they did so at basically a cottage industry pace and it showed badly later in the war. Britain, on the other hand was still building arms factories at the start of the war and some were not in full production, even in 1940. But once they did get to full production, they leapt ahead. The more fighters the Germans shot down in the Battle of Britain, the more seemed to appear. This was particularly true for the Spitfire because it was whole new construction method. This was why the Hurricane was so important: it filled the gap between wood and doped fabric designs and all-metal ones.
Date: 2022-07-19
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Comments and reviews: 19
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Delaying the war to rearm is certainly an argument for appeasement, but part of the plan for post-war Europe after WW1 was for Czechoslovakia, Poland, and France to form a cordon around Germany and prevent another war with overwhelming superiority in numbers - aided by limitations on the size of Germany's army. The argument made in the Rise and the Fall of the Third Reich was that sacrificing 36 well-trained and well-armed Czech divisions made this plan fall apart. The German's repurposed equipment from several Czech mechanized divisions for their own use. Even with the British and French armed forces how they were, it's hard to argue that giving up the Czech ally really paid off.
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Delaying the war to rearm is certainly an argument for appeasement, but part of the plan for post-war Europe after WW1 was for Czechoslovakia, Poland, and France to form a cordon around Germany and prevent another war with overwhelming superiority in numbers - aided by limitations on the size of Germany's army. The argument made in the Rise and the Fall of the Third Reich was that sacrificing 36 well-trained and well-armed Czech divisions made this plan fall apart. The German's repurposed equipment from several Czech mechanized divisions for their own use. Even with the British and French armed forces how they were, it's hard to argue that giving up the Czech ally really paid off.
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Gregg
I admit it is easy to look in hindsight. However one glaring issue should be addressed. England and France had no problem enforcing the parts of the Versailles treaty that they could enforce early on. If they werent going to step up militarily, they shouldve never forced the reparations and other parts of the treaty. Part of Signing that treaty what is the responsibility to enforce it. I know it may sound like it an oversimplification But this is true in every area of life basically, from parenting with rules, to the CEO of a corporation, to teachers in school, etc. Dont have a rule that youre not willing to enforce.
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I admit it is easy to look in hindsight. However one glaring issue should be addressed. England and France had no problem enforcing the parts of the Versailles treaty that they could enforce early on. If they werent going to step up militarily, they shouldve never forced the reparations and other parts of the treaty. Part of Signing that treaty what is the responsibility to enforce it. I know it may sound like it an oversimplification But this is true in every area of life basically, from parenting with rules, to the CEO of a corporation, to teachers in school, etc. Dont have a rule that youre not willing to enforce.
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primpal08
Appeasement may have seemed justified at the time but it guaranteed the war. The allies weren't ready earlier on, but neither was Germany. Germany was preparing for war at a much faster rate. The longer the allies waited, the stronger the Nazis got. When the Germans occupied The Rhineland it would have taken very little effort on the part of the French to wipe out the German military. Czechoslovakia was in a strong defensive position. They could have tied up the German army as the French and British pushed in from the West. Western politicians were looking for an easy way out. They failed.
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Appeasement may have seemed justified at the time but it guaranteed the war. The allies weren't ready earlier on, but neither was Germany. Germany was preparing for war at a much faster rate. The longer the allies waited, the stronger the Nazis got. When the Germans occupied The Rhineland it would have taken very little effort on the part of the French to wipe out the German military. Czechoslovakia was in a strong defensive position. They could have tied up the German army as the French and British pushed in from the West. Western politicians were looking for an easy way out. They failed.
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Scott
Fun fact: hundreds of thousands of Germans were forces to live under foreign rule after the Treaty Of Versailles awarded large areas of Germany to foreign enemy nations. When the League Of Nations plebiscite in 1927 resulted in a vote to return parts of Eastern Germany to Germany, the Polish government ignored it. Poland was an aggressor against ALL of its neighbors as soon as it gained full independence in 1919.
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Fun fact: hundreds of thousands of Germans were forces to live under foreign rule after the Treaty Of Versailles awarded large areas of Germany to foreign enemy nations. When the League Of Nations plebiscite in 1927 resulted in a vote to return parts of Eastern Germany to Germany, the Polish government ignored it. Poland was an aggressor against ALL of its neighbors as soon as it gained full independence in 1919.
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РОГОФОС
in hearts of iron 4, appeasement is justified by forcing a civil war on France should it start the war too early (and also making france way way weaker than it was in real life)
however even there, if played well, by the time of the Munich dictat, france can start a war with Germany without the fear of a civil war, and that is actually more effective than further appeasement
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in hearts of iron 4, appeasement is justified by forcing a civil war on France should it start the war too early (and also making france way way weaker than it was in real life)
however even there, if played well, by the time of the Munich dictat, france can start a war with Germany without the fear of a civil war, and that is actually more effective than further appeasement
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Stamboul
What defenders of appeasement don't get is that Czechoslovakia wasn't some backwater country like people seem to think all of Eastern Europe is, but a modern and industrialized nation. Being allowed to take first the Sudetenland, then the Czech core without firing a shot was a huge benefit to Germany.
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What defenders of appeasement don't get is that Czechoslovakia wasn't some backwater country like people seem to think all of Eastern Europe is, but a modern and industrialized nation. Being allowed to take first the Sudetenland, then the Czech core without firing a shot was a huge benefit to Germany.
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Thor
A common theme in the lead ups to the many wars in Europe in the first half of the 20th century is how utterly terrible France was at foreign relations and policy and how it consistently made everything worse for everyone through a combination of cluelessness, incompetence and ego.
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A common theme in the lead ups to the many wars in Europe in the first half of the 20th century is how utterly terrible France was at foreign relations and policy and how it consistently made everything worse for everyone through a combination of cluelessness, incompetence and ego.
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Exequiel
The more I read about WW2 the more I despreciate the marginal role of Britain and France. I feel like rather than being major players who contributed decisively they stood passively and only came in the winning side because of Soviet and American entrance into the war
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The more I read about WW2 the more I despreciate the marginal role of Britain and France. I feel like rather than being major players who contributed decisively they stood passively and only came in the winning side because of Soviet and American entrance into the war
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theycallmesteve
That end card scene is actually quite fairly well done. Chamberlain, upon returning to Great Britain was waving a signed piece of paper in the air detailing the German agreement to not invade the rest of Czechoslovakia.
. which we all know how that went.
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That end card scene is actually quite fairly well done. Chamberlain, upon returning to Great Britain was waving a signed piece of paper in the air detailing the German agreement to not invade the rest of Czechoslovakia.
. which we all know how that went.
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Choppytehbear1337
The best time to stop appeasement was when Germany demanded the Sudetenland. Czechoslovakian forts would have held off German advances. Czechoslovakia also had a sizeable tank force. 1/4 of the tanks that Germany used in the invasion of France were Czech.
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The best time to stop appeasement was when Germany demanded the Sudetenland. Czechoslovakian forts would have held off German advances. Czechoslovakia also had a sizeable tank force. 1/4 of the tanks that Germany used in the invasion of France were Czech.
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aBoughtLemon
It didn't make much difference in the end. Both France and Britain had their land armies defeated in 1940.
The truth is, after the Great War neither France and Britain wanted another go. That's why the hard fighting was left to the Soviet Union.
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It didn't make much difference in the end. Both France and Britain had their land armies defeated in 1940.
The truth is, after the Great War neither France and Britain wanted another go. That's why the hard fighting was left to the Soviet Union.
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The
My complaint isn't appeasement but the phoney war where Britain and France didnt push a weeker Germany. It is hard to tell what would happen and the risk of another trench war was scary but in a war there is no clean.
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My complaint isn't appeasement but the phoney war where Britain and France didnt push a weeker Germany. It is hard to tell what would happen and the risk of another trench war was scary but in a war there is no clean.
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Mexican
Appeasement could only be justified if the those granting time to the aggressor used it to strengthen their own forces. If they granted peace in our time and wasted the reprieve, then it was the wrong thing to do.
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Appeasement could only be justified if the those granting time to the aggressor used it to strengthen their own forces. If they granted peace in our time and wasted the reprieve, then it was the wrong thing to do.
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Edrich
I forgot France and Brittan are the only countries in Europe. The question is then what Germany did wrong? When apparently every other bit of Europe was just unclaimed land without the will to do anything.
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I forgot France and Brittan are the only countries in Europe. The question is then what Germany did wrong? When apparently every other bit of Europe was just unclaimed land without the will to do anything.
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Juan
Tread very, very carefully: we don't want to end up fighting both Germany AND Italy
Tread very, very carefully: we don't want to end up fighting both a heavyweight boxer AND a mean-looking potted plant
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Tread very, very carefully: we don't want to end up fighting both Germany AND Italy
Tread very, very carefully: we don't want to end up fighting both a heavyweight boxer AND a mean-looking potted plant
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Ronald
The USSR made similar arguments, saying the pact that divided Poland was necessary to buy time. Kind of makes sense, if you can arm faster than your adversary. Alas, much easier said than done.
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The USSR made similar arguments, saying the pact that divided Poland was necessary to buy time. Kind of makes sense, if you can arm faster than your adversary. Alas, much easier said than done.
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Егор
No, it 'ain't working. Look at the kremlin D! ckhead. EU is shoving their heads up Putler's arse in attempt to suck up to it. Result is Putler's getting greedier than it was before.
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No, it 'ain't working. Look at the kremlin D! ckhead. EU is shoving their heads up Putler's arse in attempt to suck up to it. Result is Putler's getting greedier than it was before.
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thelDan
Considering most of the appeasement was simply the Germans retaking their historic, ethnicity dominated territory, yea
Even Danzig after all was a German city, so why die for it?
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Considering most of the appeasement was simply the Germans retaking their historic, ethnicity dominated territory, yea
Even Danzig after all was a German city, so why die for it?
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Mossy
Of course Britain and France could've remilitarized a lot more effectively if they drew more conscripts from their many many colonies. But of course, we know why that didn't happen.
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Of course Britain and France could've remilitarized a lot more effectively if they drew more conscripts from their many many colonies. But of course, we know why that didn't happen.
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