Why did Britain give up Oregon?
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Date: 2023-06-02
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Comments and reviews: 14
David
The 1818 agreement setting the border along the 49th parallel compared to the drainage basins boundary that preceded it pretty much made handing over anything south of the 49th inevitable as once the logic for it had been set it would be difficult to argue for any other basis west of the Rocky Mountains continental divide. If, however, the original drainage basins boundary had remained intact in 1818, the division of the territory to the west would have been more interesting. The key place would be the triple divide peak in what is now Montana as east of there the drainage boundary would already exist - they'd have to decide where take the boundary next. The most straightforward boundary would be to just follow the water course off the west side of the peak through the Flathead and Pend Oreille river systems to the Columbia and ultimately the Pacific (so the northwestern 2/3rds of Washington State, the northernmost part of Idaho and part of northwestern Montana would be part of British Columbia.
An interesting side effect of such a change in boundary is that the US would possess a short sliver of land north of the 49th where the Pend Oreille makes its final loop before emptying into the Columbia just north of the 49th. For its part, when Canada got around to building a transcontinental railway the Crowsnest pass, which had been deemed to close to the US border for the first railway line, would now be safely far from the border and might have been used in preference to the Kicking Horse pass.
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The 1818 agreement setting the border along the 49th parallel compared to the drainage basins boundary that preceded it pretty much made handing over anything south of the 49th inevitable as once the logic for it had been set it would be difficult to argue for any other basis west of the Rocky Mountains continental divide. If, however, the original drainage basins boundary had remained intact in 1818, the division of the territory to the west would have been more interesting. The key place would be the triple divide peak in what is now Montana as east of there the drainage boundary would already exist - they'd have to decide where take the boundary next. The most straightforward boundary would be to just follow the water course off the west side of the peak through the Flathead and Pend Oreille river systems to the Columbia and ultimately the Pacific (so the northwestern 2/3rds of Washington State, the northernmost part of Idaho and part of northwestern Montana would be part of British Columbia.
An interesting side effect of such a change in boundary is that the US would possess a short sliver of land north of the 49th where the Pend Oreille makes its final loop before emptying into the Columbia just north of the 49th. For its part, when Canada got around to building a transcontinental railway the Crowsnest pass, which had been deemed to close to the US border for the first railway line, would now be safely far from the border and might have been used in preference to the Kicking Horse pass.
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Simon
I mean British were not the loser here, they both side win.
British did not accept ''all for nothing'', because James K. Polk was suppose to get everything up to the 54 parallel or he was going on war. He was too scared to get another free state against the slavery one. (He was a democrat)
British get everything they wanted: the right to navigate on the columbia river for free for his subjects, the good agreement with the United-States and the Peace.
Check out the info on Canadian Encyclopia online treaty of Oregon 1848.
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I mean British were not the loser here, they both side win.
British did not accept ''all for nothing'', because James K. Polk was suppose to get everything up to the 54 parallel or he was going on war. He was too scared to get another free state against the slavery one. (He was a democrat)
British get everything they wanted: the right to navigate on the columbia river for free for his subjects, the good agreement with the United-States and the Peace.
Check out the info on Canadian Encyclopia online treaty of Oregon 1848.
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timmmahhhh
I'm surprised you didn't mention a popular American slogan for gaining the entire territory: Fifty-Four Forty or fight! This refers to the latitude of the Northern extent of this territory. As you mentioned though the compromise was at the 49th parallel. Well Vancouver Island was successfully thought through unfortunately Point Roberts was not, a peninsula mostly Canada with the tip being the US thanks to this unyielding of the parallel demarcation.
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I'm surprised you didn't mention a popular American slogan for gaining the entire territory: Fifty-Four Forty or fight! This refers to the latitude of the Northern extent of this territory. As you mentioned though the compromise was at the 49th parallel. Well Vancouver Island was successfully thought through unfortunately Point Roberts was not, a peninsula mostly Canada with the tip being the US thanks to this unyielding of the parallel demarcation.
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Giovanni
Britain should have gotten at least the lands north of the columbia river, but I think they should have gotten the whole thing, I don't think Canada should have it today though because I think Canada shouldn't exist, I think Quebec should be independent, Labrador and Newfoundland should be independent, the Northwest Territories and Nunavut should join up with Greenland to form Nunangat, an Inuit nation, and the rest should be part of the US
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Britain should have gotten at least the lands north of the columbia river, but I think they should have gotten the whole thing, I don't think Canada should have it today though because I think Canada shouldn't exist, I think Quebec should be independent, Labrador and Newfoundland should be independent, the Northwest Territories and Nunavut should join up with Greenland to form Nunangat, an Inuit nation, and the rest should be part of the US
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GabelHUN
I think, perhaps you could make a video of the decline of piracy, seems like an interesting topic. I know the golden age of piracy lasted until the mid 18th century, but where did the pirates go? It seems Piracy ceased to exist in the west African-coast, the Atlantic, the Carribbieans and the South-China sea almost simultaneously. It's not like there weren't anything valuable to plunder.
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I think, perhaps you could make a video of the decline of piracy, seems like an interesting topic. I know the golden age of piracy lasted until the mid 18th century, but where did the pirates go? It seems Piracy ceased to exist in the west African-coast, the Atlantic, the Carribbieans and the South-China sea almost simultaneously. It's not like there weren't anything valuable to plunder.
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Ian
Because US and UK control of Oregon was nebulous at best, being a long way on the Pacific coast, the deal done not only established the future states on the US side, it also established UK and ultimately Canadian control on their side. There is an anomaly on the border that is technically US territory but too reach it requires a journey through the Canadian zone.
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Because US and UK control of Oregon was nebulous at best, being a long way on the Pacific coast, the deal done not only established the future states on the US side, it also established UK and ultimately Canadian control on their side. There is an anomaly on the border that is technically US territory but too reach it requires a journey through the Canadian zone.
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Johny
The British folded too easily. After the Mexican war US will gain access to the Pacific via California and would likely be more flexible on Oregon. Also the discovery of gold in California would lead to smaller gold rushes in Oregon. The area proved economically valuable very quickly. If Peel stalled, Britain would likely get a better compromise in 5 years.
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The British folded too easily. After the Mexican war US will gain access to the Pacific via California and would likely be more flexible on Oregon. Also the discovery of gold in California would lead to smaller gold rushes in Oregon. The area proved economically valuable very quickly. If Peel stalled, Britain would likely get a better compromise in 5 years.
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Sam
It's simple, Britain knew that in order to colonize that area it would require countless long trips via covered wagon. This meant broken wagon wheels, wasted meat since at that time you could only carry 100 pounds of meat, and Dysentery, lots of Dysentery. The Crown wouldn't stand for it.
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It's simple, Britain knew that in order to colonize that area it would require countless long trips via covered wagon. This meant broken wagon wheels, wasted meat since at that time you could only carry 100 pounds of meat, and Dysentery, lots of Dysentery. The Crown wouldn't stand for it.
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x99
As a Washingtonian, I ve often wished Britain pressed their full claim, or at least pressed for a border along the Columbia river. Canada is clearly a better country to be in right now, and Washington s diverse culture and natural beauty would be better protected under them alas.
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As a Washingtonian, I ve often wished Britain pressed their full claim, or at least pressed for a border along the Columbia river. Canada is clearly a better country to be in right now, and Washington s diverse culture and natural beauty would be better protected under them alas.
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First
I'm a little surprised you didn't make a reference to the Oregon Trail game. I first played it on a dumb terminal connected to an IBM mainframe over a 400bps modem. Type 'BANG' to shoot and You have died of dysentery were typical lines from this text only program.
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I'm a little surprised you didn't make a reference to the Oregon Trail game. I first played it on a dumb terminal connected to an IBM mainframe over a 400bps modem. Type 'BANG' to shoot and You have died of dysentery were typical lines from this text only program.
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Justin
They pissed off when it came to their sheep farmers on small islands in a straight between Oregon & Vancouver island too. They just pissed around for a few hundred years is essentially the answer. As we and they are all still doing the same now.
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They pissed off when it came to their sheep farmers on small islands in a straight between Oregon & Vancouver island too. They just pissed around for a few hundred years is essentially the answer. As we and they are all still doing the same now.
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Michael
As a British Columbian, the fact the British never pushed harder for the border to run down the length of the Columbian river (giving us Seattle and the remaining south Salish sea) has always frustrated me. That and not having Alaska
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As a British Columbian, the fact the British never pushed harder for the border to run down the length of the Columbian river (giving us Seattle and the remaining south Salish sea) has always frustrated me. That and not having Alaska
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Anti-Corn
British Columbia then turned out to be a very sussy baka. They imposed a minimum wage law in 1925 with the explicit intent of pricing Japanese lumber workers out of jobs. They also put a prohibitive head tax on Chinese immigrants.
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British Columbia then turned out to be a very sussy baka. They imposed a minimum wage law in 1925 with the explicit intent of pricing Japanese lumber workers out of jobs. They also put a prohibitive head tax on Chinese immigrants.
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Sam
The Americans start coming and they don t stop coming. Hopped in their wagons and they hit the ground running. Didn t make sense to keep sharing Oregon, when the Americans outnumbered the Brits more than six to one.
-Oversimplified
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The Americans start coming and they don t stop coming. Hopped in their wagons and they hit the ground running. Didn t make sense to keep sharing Oregon, when the Americans outnumbered the Brits more than six to one.
-Oversimplified
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