What if the Phoenecians discovered America?
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The biggest reason for it is also how pure the copper is. Copper was very rare along the Mediterranean, except for places like Iberia and Turkey. But their copper is usually mixed with other elements, making it less pure. But, in an old galley south of Cyprus, these found a full cargo of Copper, with a purity of over 99% This was only found in Far North Asia and the UP.
Who knows if this is true. They obviously didnt make much of an impact. But this could have been the fuel for the Bronze Age. The Phoenicians and the Minoans were known as the suppliers for copper. This may be right. Then again, it seems like a lot of work for some metal that can be found closer to home. But, you never know. Look up the Newberry Tablet to learn more.
Date: 2022-07-15
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Comments and reviews: 9
George
If the Phoenicians did discover the Americas it was during the Bronze Age and then they forgot about it when the Iron Age came about. During the Bronze Age when there was a financial incentive to explore the world looking for tin and copper deposits (especially rare tin) that was used in making Bronze seafaring traders would be out exploring the world for tin and copper resources. When the Iron Age came about, iron being plentiful, eliminated the financial incentive to explore for resources ending the Bronze Age explorations (maybe explains the collapse of Bronze Age states built on the Bronze Trade. Also, because of the financial incentive - knowledge of the Americas and their resources was probably a closely guarded secret by the Phoenicians that was forgotten when no need to go there came up. The Americas were too far away to be considered good colony potential.
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If the Phoenicians did discover the Americas it was during the Bronze Age and then they forgot about it when the Iron Age came about. During the Bronze Age when there was a financial incentive to explore the world looking for tin and copper deposits (especially rare tin) that was used in making Bronze seafaring traders would be out exploring the world for tin and copper resources. When the Iron Age came about, iron being plentiful, eliminated the financial incentive to explore for resources ending the Bronze Age explorations (maybe explains the collapse of Bronze Age states built on the Bronze Trade. Also, because of the financial incentive - knowledge of the Americas and their resources was probably a closely guarded secret by the Phoenicians that was forgotten when no need to go there came up. The Americas were too far away to be considered good colony potential.
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Rey
What about old world diseases wiping out most of the Mayans(and any other indigenous precursor to later states?
Tech would spread faster with the import of horses, yes, but population would decline with similar proportions. delaying any onset of later empires in the region.
If the Neo-Carthaginian 'fell apart', it's unlikely that local tribes would be able to subdue any of the larger isles in the Caribbean which would be the core of that empire.
Upon falling, they'll loose their overseas regions especially to the north and west and in the worst case each isle would become their own state. It would take decades or even centuries of infighting between native successor kingdoms before any of these kingdoms would able to conquer their rivals _and_ the Phoenecian islands. just like in Europe.
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What about old world diseases wiping out most of the Mayans(and any other indigenous precursor to later states?
Tech would spread faster with the import of horses, yes, but population would decline with similar proportions. delaying any onset of later empires in the region.
If the Neo-Carthaginian 'fell apart', it's unlikely that local tribes would be able to subdue any of the larger isles in the Caribbean which would be the core of that empire.
Upon falling, they'll loose their overseas regions especially to the north and west and in the worst case each isle would become their own state. It would take decades or even centuries of infighting between native successor kingdoms before any of these kingdoms would able to conquer their rivals _and_ the Phoenecian islands. just like in Europe.
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Dragoninthewest
You forgot one other thing that the Phoenicians would bring that would massively change North America, the introduction of The Phoenician alphabet. Suddenly all these nations that break off from Phoenician Cuba all have a writing system which allows them to record their history and centralized bureaucracies. This along with the reintroduction of horses and camels to North America would allow the Mayans to form a centralized Kingdom. The Mayans will likely come to recognize during their occupation that The Phoenician alphabet was a more elegant way of recording. This would lead to adoption of the writing system. Imagine the effects it would have on their calendars and Mathematics. Not only that but the rise of a native literature and philosophers.
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You forgot one other thing that the Phoenicians would bring that would massively change North America, the introduction of The Phoenician alphabet. Suddenly all these nations that break off from Phoenician Cuba all have a writing system which allows them to record their history and centralized bureaucracies. This along with the reintroduction of horses and camels to North America would allow the Mayans to form a centralized Kingdom. The Mayans will likely come to recognize during their occupation that The Phoenician alphabet was a more elegant way of recording. This would lead to adoption of the writing system. Imagine the effects it would have on their calendars and Mathematics. Not only that but the rise of a native literature and philosophers.
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AmuurakanRiot
U do know the olmec bred with the phonecians an gave birth to the American tribes especially in the south but it was deemed a great masonic secret during the punic wars it was decided to migrate scores out of the region should they fall to Rome the remnant who didn't leave would later become berber or moors who later ruled Spain another 700 yrs til the fall of Grenada in 1492 an coloumbus stole the maps of the Moors which deemed this the promised land an history had made it a point to hide this truth because it would reveal a even more harsh truth the descendants of the phonecian true aborigines have been the most hated in the nation since the arrival of the Johnny come lately
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U do know the olmec bred with the phonecians an gave birth to the American tribes especially in the south but it was deemed a great masonic secret during the punic wars it was decided to migrate scores out of the region should they fall to Rome the remnant who didn't leave would later become berber or moors who later ruled Spain another 700 yrs til the fall of Grenada in 1492 an coloumbus stole the maps of the Moors which deemed this the promised land an history had made it a point to hide this truth because it would reveal a even more harsh truth the descendants of the phonecian true aborigines have been the most hated in the nation since the arrival of the Johnny come lately
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mike
Youre not mad, at least about trans-Atlantic navigation. If you have a ship that can reasonably safely cross the Mediterranean and a means of steering a course out of sight of land plus the capacity to carry sufficient drinking water then you can sail practically anywhere. The Phoenicians, Carthaginians, pre- and Classical Greeks and Romans could all have accomplished this.
In terms of time, at a steady 5 knots the crossing time would be between 600 and 1, 000 hours, that is between three and a half and about five weeks. The circular trade wind and current system would very quickly have been discovered.
Just consider the voyages that provably were undertaken.
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Youre not mad, at least about trans-Atlantic navigation. If you have a ship that can reasonably safely cross the Mediterranean and a means of steering a course out of sight of land plus the capacity to carry sufficient drinking water then you can sail practically anywhere. The Phoenicians, Carthaginians, pre- and Classical Greeks and Romans could all have accomplished this.
In terms of time, at a steady 5 knots the crossing time would be between 600 and 1, 000 hours, that is between three and a half and about five weeks. The circular trade wind and current system would very quickly have been discovered.
Just consider the voyages that provably were undertaken.
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NIK4
Believe me, it's worth reading all over. The Minoans discovered America. Many ancient Greek and Minoan symbols engraved in spirals were found in North America. Also a Minoan pendant the prince of lilies (The prince of lilies was an ancient Minoan fictional character painted in the palace of Knossos) But also the ancient Greek E (symbol of the oracle of Delphi) was found in a stone temple of pastries. was painted the prince of lilies that I explained before who he was. Minoan DNA (ie Cretan DNA) was also found in Indians! . So Columbus did not discover America, nor did the Normans America was discovered by the Minoans
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Believe me, it's worth reading all over. The Minoans discovered America. Many ancient Greek and Minoan symbols engraved in spirals were found in North America. Also a Minoan pendant the prince of lilies (The prince of lilies was an ancient Minoan fictional character painted in the palace of Knossos) But also the ancient Greek E (symbol of the oracle of Delphi) was found in a stone temple of pastries. was painted the prince of lilies that I explained before who he was. Minoan DNA (ie Cretan DNA) was also found in Indians! . So Columbus did not discover America, nor did the Normans America was discovered by the Minoans
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el
the mayas would allow the phoenicians to trade, but would be completely annihilate the foreigners if they got out of line. unlike the aztecs, who used obsidian arrows the mayas used jadeite. jadeite has the same hardness as steel. jadeite atlals could penetrate spanish armour. like in the battle of champuton in 1517 were the spanish were annihilated. the purepecha tribe in central mexico used bronze and copper for weapons, which they used to destroy the aztec army. you need to find a different tribe in your scenarios thanks
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the mayas would allow the phoenicians to trade, but would be completely annihilate the foreigners if they got out of line. unlike the aztecs, who used obsidian arrows the mayas used jadeite. jadeite has the same hardness as steel. jadeite atlals could penetrate spanish armour. like in the battle of champuton in 1517 were the spanish were annihilated. the purepecha tribe in central mexico used bronze and copper for weapons, which they used to destroy the aztec army. you need to find a different tribe in your scenarios thanks
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micro
I believe they did arrived, their main thing was trade and not power. But with the growth of Greece and later Rome, they weren't able to be as successful as they did previously. This led to look for other areas. I believe they eventually made it to the Americas but eventually they mixed with the natives and lost their identity. There was a Mayan prophecy about white people overtaking their society, I wonder from where did they get that from?
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I believe they did arrived, their main thing was trade and not power. But with the growth of Greece and later Rome, they weren't able to be as successful as they did previously. This led to look for other areas. I believe they eventually made it to the Americas but eventually they mixed with the natives and lost their identity. There was a Mayan prophecy about white people overtaking their society, I wonder from where did they get that from?
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Carles
You miss an important point. The effect that knowing of the existence of an american empire/continent would have on Rome. Who knows if, instead of moving eastwards, or north, they would focus on westward navigation. So that phoenician empire would not be isolated from its foundation up to european arrival a few centuries later, but instead, keep connected, and, thus, stimulated more naval technological breaktrhoughs.
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You miss an important point. The effect that knowing of the existence of an american empire/continent would have on Rome. Who knows if, instead of moving eastwards, or north, they would focus on westward navigation. So that phoenician empire would not be isolated from its foundation up to european arrival a few centuries later, but instead, keep connected, and, thus, stimulated more naval technological breaktrhoughs.
reply
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