What if the Central Powers won WW1?
video description
The bad: The Armenian Genocide is total and Armenia no longer exists. The West would probably still have deeply racist tendencies (more so than our timeline. There would be fewer free countries without the US as the worlds hegemonic superpower. (On the other hand, since the Cold War never happens, the US wouldnt support right-wing dictatorships against the Soviet Union and the Iranian Revolution and Operation Condor never happen, which are positives. Imperial Japan would be far more brutal than the Japan of our timeline, so tragically we never get anime and Nintendo games.
Overall its a discard and draw. For the Muslim world this timeline would be infinitely better. For the West and East Asia this timeline is worse, although the alternate timeline West and Japan wouldnt see it that way since they would be crueler, more racist and militaristic without the world wars to shake it out of its arrogance. Personally I think a timeline where the Allies win the world wars but where the Ottoman Empire never gets involved would be the best timeline.
Date: 2022-07-15
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Comments and reviews: 9
nonnius
You don't seem to realise Ireland was not a unitary state in 1917. There was no Irish state for Germany to reward with unification and under no circumstances would the British government have accepted the creation of one as a result of German intervention. Home rule was still on the table, but it being gifted to the Irish by a hostile foreign power as the result of a de facto British defeat on the continent would have been an unthinkable insult to national honour and strategic folly.
Ireland at that point, before the war of independence and the civil war, had never been a modern independent state. You're positing that the British would have accepted the creation of this newly minted state with ample room for staging invasion of England that would have been very difficult to oppose, by a hostile power, in return for the territorial integrity of France?
If those terms were all that was proffered by Imperial Germany, the UK would have maintained a hostile blockade of the continent similar to WW2.
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You don't seem to realise Ireland was not a unitary state in 1917. There was no Irish state for Germany to reward with unification and under no circumstances would the British government have accepted the creation of one as a result of German intervention. Home rule was still on the table, but it being gifted to the Irish by a hostile foreign power as the result of a de facto British defeat on the continent would have been an unthinkable insult to national honour and strategic folly.
Ireland at that point, before the war of independence and the civil war, had never been a modern independent state. You're positing that the British would have accepted the creation of this newly minted state with ample room for staging invasion of England that would have been very difficult to oppose, by a hostile power, in return for the territorial integrity of France?
If those terms were all that was proffered by Imperial Germany, the UK would have maintained a hostile blockade of the continent similar to WW2.
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Wild
A lack of American involvement in the wars could lead to more division and thus a weaker America, but Im not really sure. Our economy is iffy because I dont know if we wouldve needed to pick up the slack when it comes to manufacturing, but we would still get a lot of immigrants. I think America would maybe end up with more religious conflicts due to the Protestants coming in from England. The west would possibly get more refugees running from Japanese imperialism, but it all depends on the brutality of the Japanese thrust.
There are two timelines that happen following this. Either the world turns to space and that becomes the main focus, or the world heads for yet another world war, one which would likely be much more brutal. Although Im not sure if America wouldve allied with the Germans or opposition powers. Once continental powers came to be, I think its much more likely that everyone turns to space as long as theres ethnic and religious tolerance.
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A lack of American involvement in the wars could lead to more division and thus a weaker America, but Im not really sure. Our economy is iffy because I dont know if we wouldve needed to pick up the slack when it comes to manufacturing, but we would still get a lot of immigrants. I think America would maybe end up with more religious conflicts due to the Protestants coming in from England. The west would possibly get more refugees running from Japanese imperialism, but it all depends on the brutality of the Japanese thrust.
There are two timelines that happen following this. Either the world turns to space and that becomes the main focus, or the world heads for yet another world war, one which would likely be much more brutal. Although Im not sure if America wouldve allied with the Germans or opposition powers. Once continental powers came to be, I think its much more likely that everyone turns to space as long as theres ethnic and religious tolerance.
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Gert
I may have slight reservations about some predictions, but the main problem is the start: keeping the US out of the war. I'm not sure how the Zimmerman telegram was used, but the sinking of the Lusitania was definitely just an excuse for the US government to enter the war. Contrary to the population (not just in the US, politicians usually understand power politics. The USA can afford isolation not just because of the oceans, but also because there's no other power controlling a full continent the way the US has control over America. Having a Germany (or any other nation) take control over Europe, or Japan (or any other nation) take control over Asia, would be a serious threat for the US. Even if WW I would be finished before the US decided to participate, I'm pretty convinced war between Germany/Japan and the US would be inevitable at some point.
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I may have slight reservations about some predictions, but the main problem is the start: keeping the US out of the war. I'm not sure how the Zimmerman telegram was used, but the sinking of the Lusitania was definitely just an excuse for the US government to enter the war. Contrary to the population (not just in the US, politicians usually understand power politics. The USA can afford isolation not just because of the oceans, but also because there's no other power controlling a full continent the way the US has control over America. Having a Germany (or any other nation) take control over Europe, or Japan (or any other nation) take control over Asia, would be a serious threat for the US. Even if WW I would be finished before the US decided to participate, I'm pretty convinced war between Germany/Japan and the US would be inevitable at some point.
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Duncan
Wait, I thought the Armenians were only genocided by the Turks as a scapegoat against the fall of hte Ottoman Empire. They were accused of being traitors that either didn't support the war effort or saboteurs working against the state.
In a timeline where the Ottoman Empire not only survived, but gained more territory. the main 'reason' for the genocide wouldn't have happened. The Ottomans wouldn't have been suffering a great humiliation and seeking out target to take their frustrations out on. It's darkly similar to the Holocaust in that after the humiliation of WWI, the German people readily accepted the Jews as a boogeyman to vent their frustrations out upon.
Not saying it would have been good for the Armenians in this timeline. but it's better to remain 2nd class citizens than a pile of corpses.
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Wait, I thought the Armenians were only genocided by the Turks as a scapegoat against the fall of hte Ottoman Empire. They were accused of being traitors that either didn't support the war effort or saboteurs working against the state.
In a timeline where the Ottoman Empire not only survived, but gained more territory. the main 'reason' for the genocide wouldn't have happened. The Ottomans wouldn't have been suffering a great humiliation and seeking out target to take their frustrations out on. It's darkly similar to the Holocaust in that after the humiliation of WWI, the German people readily accepted the Jews as a boogeyman to vent their frustrations out upon.
Not saying it would have been good for the Armenians in this timeline. but it's better to remain 2nd class citizens than a pile of corpses.
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utubrGaming
Well, we all know what would happen. The French would revolt, forming a government made of trade unions, or syndicates, resulting the formal French Government to retreat to Algeria. Similar events occur in Britain, leaving Canada as the main bastion of parliamentary democracy. Italy would be the main frontline of a cold war between the Austrians and these trade-syndicalist-French.
America would economically collapse with Douglas MacArthur instituting martial law, trade unionists in the Midwest around the Great Lakes would attempt to emulate what happened on the continent, Huey Long would secede, California would claim themselves as an American successor state and New England would take Canadian protection.
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Well, we all know what would happen. The French would revolt, forming a government made of trade unions, or syndicates, resulting the formal French Government to retreat to Algeria. Similar events occur in Britain, leaving Canada as the main bastion of parliamentary democracy. Italy would be the main frontline of a cold war between the Austrians and these trade-syndicalist-French.
America would economically collapse with Douglas MacArthur instituting martial law, trade unionists in the Midwest around the Great Lakes would attempt to emulate what happened on the continent, Huey Long would secede, California would claim themselves as an American successor state and New England would take Canadian protection.
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Stephen
I enjoy a good map error, and I found a couple here. (As a collector of such trivia, I'm curious as to where you got it) Right about the 4: 30 mark, you have side-by-side maps of Europe as it was in 1914 and 1922. There are two errors on the 1914 map: (1) Alsace-Lorraine is shown as French, and (2) Rhodes is shown as Greek. I hadn't thought there were any in the 1922 map until Memel (Lithuanian: Klaipeda) caught my eye, but a quick review of the war's aftermath uncovered that the city and surrounding region changed hands only in 1923. Well played, unknown cartographer.
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I enjoy a good map error, and I found a couple here. (As a collector of such trivia, I'm curious as to where you got it) Right about the 4: 30 mark, you have side-by-side maps of Europe as it was in 1914 and 1922. There are two errors on the 1914 map: (1) Alsace-Lorraine is shown as French, and (2) Rhodes is shown as Greek. I hadn't thought there were any in the 1922 map until Memel (Lithuanian: Klaipeda) caught my eye, but a quick review of the war's aftermath uncovered that the city and surrounding region changed hands only in 1923. Well played, unknown cartographer.
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education
the US wanted to turn Germany into an agricultural state after ww2, they changed their position when the cold war started and the realisation that east Germany was being reindustrialized loomed over them, after all the west Germans would have moved east had it been better there, just like how east germans eventually moved west when the west became a much better state to live in
the germans came up with ordoliberalism themselves and it paid off, reichsmarks were changed to deutchmarks over night and wonder over wonder it worked, people believed in this new currency
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the US wanted to turn Germany into an agricultural state after ww2, they changed their position when the cold war started and the realisation that east Germany was being reindustrialized loomed over them, after all the west Germans would have moved east had it been better there, just like how east germans eventually moved west when the west became a much better state to live in
the germans came up with ordoliberalism themselves and it paid off, reichsmarks were changed to deutchmarks over night and wonder over wonder it worked, people believed in this new currency
reply
Peace
The main issue that started this war was as follows:
The issue of Turkish Ottomans wanting to expand their Empire North into Serbian and Austrian territory was stoked by the Red Party. This was confirmed by the father of a teacher of mine in high school. He grew up in Bosnia in that time period.
Many of the Nations in Europe saw the unrest as a match to the fuse that they all was waiting to be lit. All railroads ran through Germany, if you wanted to be a part of European Commerce, Germany had a tariff on your business.
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The main issue that started this war was as follows:
The issue of Turkish Ottomans wanting to expand their Empire North into Serbian and Austrian territory was stoked by the Red Party. This was confirmed by the father of a teacher of mine in high school. He grew up in Bosnia in that time period.
Many of the Nations in Europe saw the unrest as a match to the fuse that they all was waiting to be lit. All railroads ran through Germany, if you wanted to be a part of European Commerce, Germany had a tariff on your business.
reply
Skooma
No ww2 economic boom might mean that the US wouldn't be nearly the country it is today, perhaps not even a world power. The idea of the nuclear family, and the culture surrounding the 50s and 60s, would be completely different. Nuclear weapons might not have even been invented, or a World War might have been fought over something completely different, resulting in even more World Wars. It would be a completely different world than the one we know today.
reply
No ww2 economic boom might mean that the US wouldn't be nearly the country it is today, perhaps not even a world power. The idea of the nuclear family, and the culture surrounding the 50s and 60s, would be completely different. Nuclear weapons might not have even been invented, or a World War might have been fought over something completely different, resulting in even more World Wars. It would be a completely different world than the one we know today.
reply
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