WhatifAltHist vs Vaush debate
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Date: 2022-07-15
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Comments and reviews: 9
Stephen's
Both of you talked over each other way too much, but the problem was the format rather than anything else.
It's clear though that the other guy is misinformed.
MLK derived his activism from his Christian beliefs. The theological position of every man being created equal underpinned his activism. Malcolm X and the black panthers were more closely related to the modern social justice movement than MLK. The modern social justice movement only considers MLK as a stepping stone towards their illogical and inconsistent goals.
If truth be told, the professors pushing the social justice movement are deeply small c conservative and long for the days where they were the activists participating in their righteous religion by protesting injustice on the streets. They're driven by fundamentalist religious positions (which they would object to since they hate religion where the only religion that they know is Christianity.
This debate should have been about a specific, researchable proposition and moderated by a third party.
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Both of you talked over each other way too much, but the problem was the format rather than anything else.
It's clear though that the other guy is misinformed.
MLK derived his activism from his Christian beliefs. The theological position of every man being created equal underpinned his activism. Malcolm X and the black panthers were more closely related to the modern social justice movement than MLK. The modern social justice movement only considers MLK as a stepping stone towards their illogical and inconsistent goals.
If truth be told, the professors pushing the social justice movement are deeply small c conservative and long for the days where they were the activists participating in their righteous religion by protesting injustice on the streets. They're driven by fundamentalist religious positions (which they would object to since they hate religion where the only religion that they know is Christianity.
This debate should have been about a specific, researchable proposition and moderated by a third party.
reply
whatifalthist
Is Rudyard wearing a leather jacket indoors! I admit vaush interrupted more. But how is wiah gonna say that people in the 3rd world are so much less productive that it would justify their massively lower pay. I do the same job as test automation engineers in india and get paid way more. We test the same sorts of software and write the same type of code. People making shoes in america(think 300 high running shoes) have the same skill and output as people making shoes in vietnam and the vietnamese get paid massively less. I disagree with vaush about not being able to measure productivity, but I disagree with wiah precisely because we can measure productivity. There might be some jobs where rudyard's generalized assertion holds true, but I would want to see him dig deeper into this topic.
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Is Rudyard wearing a leather jacket indoors! I admit vaush interrupted more. But how is wiah gonna say that people in the 3rd world are so much less productive that it would justify their massively lower pay. I do the same job as test automation engineers in india and get paid way more. We test the same sorts of software and write the same type of code. People making shoes in america(think 300 high running shoes) have the same skill and output as people making shoes in vietnam and the vietnamese get paid massively less. I disagree with vaush about not being able to measure productivity, but I disagree with wiah precisely because we can measure productivity. There might be some jobs where rudyard's generalized assertion holds true, but I would want to see him dig deeper into this topic.
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Will
The debate seemed rather messy as felt like it just revolving around the one topic of, was slavery abolition alongside civil rights movement directly related to social justice.
The main problem I found was that Vauh was just using the retoric rather than the means and results in attempt to draw a connection. You weren't really able to address that point in a clear manner so it just circled.
In future a moderator would be useful as the unstructured nature made it too easy to just derail the whole debate. It would also be good if you and your opposition exchange brief summaries on the area's you were planning on discussing before hand so you could both be better prepared.
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The debate seemed rather messy as felt like it just revolving around the one topic of, was slavery abolition alongside civil rights movement directly related to social justice.
The main problem I found was that Vauh was just using the retoric rather than the means and results in attempt to draw a connection. You weren't really able to address that point in a clear manner so it just circled.
In future a moderator would be useful as the unstructured nature made it too easy to just derail the whole debate. It would also be good if you and your opposition exchange brief summaries on the area's you were planning on discussing before hand so you could both be better prepared.
reply
Travis
Whatifalthist debate score:
Composure: 6. 5/10
Factuality: 8. 5 - 9/10
Rhetoric: 5. 5/10
Entertainment: 7. 5/10
Final score: 28-28. 5/40
Vaush debate score
Composure: 7. 5-8/10
Factuality: 6/10
Rhetoric: 7/10
Entertainment: 7. 5/10
Final score 28-28. 5/40
Result: Possible tie. Could go either way.
I'd say Whatifalthist won but it could swing either way honestly.
Work on your composure and rhetoric. Was pretty close to a W, but in the end it left a lot to be desired and was a debate that I think anyone could reasonably assume; was either a near tie or a VERY close W for either side. I think you earned my sub,
Destiny next?
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Whatifalthist debate score:
Composure: 6. 5/10
Factuality: 8. 5 - 9/10
Rhetoric: 5. 5/10
Entertainment: 7. 5/10
Final score: 28-28. 5/40
Vaush debate score
Composure: 7. 5-8/10
Factuality: 6/10
Rhetoric: 7/10
Entertainment: 7. 5/10
Final score 28-28. 5/40
Result: Possible tie. Could go either way.
I'd say Whatifalthist won but it could swing either way honestly.
Work on your composure and rhetoric. Was pretty close to a W, but in the end it left a lot to be desired and was a debate that I think anyone could reasonably assume; was either a near tie or a VERY close W for either side. I think you earned my sub,
Destiny next?
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Niall
I feel like neither debator was in good faith here. Neither will give the other time to speak and it seemed like they were just trying to lecture each other. Whatifalthis came off a arrogant and pedantic, the other guy seemed like he was here to condemn the witch in the way he approached this. He also seemed to have a very pop history view of the world (He himself acknowledged this) while Whatifalthis can't seem to remember this is not a university seminar and you have got simplify your arguments. Honestly I think these to would do better with response videos rather than debates.
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I feel like neither debator was in good faith here. Neither will give the other time to speak and it seemed like they were just trying to lecture each other. Whatifalthis came off a arrogant and pedantic, the other guy seemed like he was here to condemn the witch in the way he approached this. He also seemed to have a very pop history view of the world (He himself acknowledged this) while Whatifalthis can't seem to remember this is not a university seminar and you have got simplify your arguments. Honestly I think these to would do better with response videos rather than debates.
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Melissa
What was this even about? I cant tell if these two are even talking about the same thing, but History dude seems to not the the difference between communism and socialism.
MLK Jr was a Democratic Socialist, and his daughter has written articles about how he would support BLM, which seems to be something this history guy was trying to disprove?
Vaush was a little less obnoxious if the two. At least he knows that words are often misused.
North Korea is calls itself Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea for gods sake.
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What was this even about? I cant tell if these two are even talking about the same thing, but History dude seems to not the the difference between communism and socialism.
MLK Jr was a Democratic Socialist, and his daughter has written articles about how he would support BLM, which seems to be something this history guy was trying to disprove?
Vaush was a little less obnoxious if the two. At least he knows that words are often misused.
North Korea is calls itself Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea for gods sake.
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Teddy
Honestly I can't stand these people who argue some historical theory with zero basis for that argument. The dumbest thing about this is that neither of these guys said the abolitionists movement was not about equality. None of the abolitionists wanted to live side by side freed blacks, except for a very small unpopular minority within the abolitionist movement. Most of them including Lincoln saw non-whites as being impossible to integrate with the whites. They wanted to colonize them or send them back to Africa ig Liberia.
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Honestly I can't stand these people who argue some historical theory with zero basis for that argument. The dumbest thing about this is that neither of these guys said the abolitionists movement was not about equality. None of the abolitionists wanted to live side by side freed blacks, except for a very small unpopular minority within the abolitionist movement. Most of them including Lincoln saw non-whites as being impossible to integrate with the whites. They wanted to colonize them or send them back to Africa ig Liberia.
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NVS
Vaush is such a bad faith debater. He shut down nearly immediately because he knew he was out of his depth and instead of trying to argue in good faith or even learn something he's clearly uninformed on, he just goes back to using big words and ultimately says a lot about nothing. Vaush's problem has always been that he has no real word exposure to anything. He's an ivy league educated person who lives in Beverly Hills and probably only reads about black people and marxism and has nothing to base anything on.
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Vaush is such a bad faith debater. He shut down nearly immediately because he knew he was out of his depth and instead of trying to argue in good faith or even learn something he's clearly uninformed on, he just goes back to using big words and ultimately says a lot about nothing. Vaush's problem has always been that he has no real word exposure to anything. He's an ivy league educated person who lives in Beverly Hills and probably only reads about black people and marxism and has nothing to base anything on.
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Charles
So if BLM was somehow proven objectively to be the successor of the 1960s civil rights movement, that means it MUST be on the right side of history?
Or if blm instead came from marxist thought, it MUST be wrong?
Thats like making an argument and claiming Plato made the same argument, therefore its correct/incorrect (depending on how you view Plato)
This debate is sad, pathetic, and just a long winded way to make a genetic fallacy.
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So if BLM was somehow proven objectively to be the successor of the 1960s civil rights movement, that means it MUST be on the right side of history?
Or if blm instead came from marxist thought, it MUST be wrong?
Thats like making an argument and claiming Plato made the same argument, therefore its correct/incorrect (depending on how you view Plato)
This debate is sad, pathetic, and just a long winded way to make a genetic fallacy.
reply
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