0bsidianfire948
Your remark about how in the West (including the Ancient Near Eastern cultures and the religions that came out of them) dragons are killed while in the East, dragons are worshiped is really interesting. It struck me though. all the Ancient Near Eastern cultures and then later Greece are based in and around deserts of some type (the Mediterranean is a sea next to a desert. The main Eastern cultures are from much more temperate climates that have a lot more rain and water inherent in their geography. And I can't help but wonder if that played a major part in how those different cultures viewed the nature of well. nature. and what mankind's role and relationship to it would be.
Deserts are inherently hostile to people and civilization and aren't so much as lived in harmony with as they are either avoided all together, lived in as nomads. or somehow altered into being something that isn't a desert. All the major Ancient Near Eastern cultures had to learn how to. conquer the desert. in some way to survive living in and around in it. If people are too passive about living in deserts. the desert kills them no matter what people do or don't do.
More temperate climates are much easier to learn to live in harmony with, especially if water is readily available as either rain or rivers. That isn't to say that eventually people learn how to alter temperate climates into something that fits them better. but the need to do that or the environment automatically kills mankind for seemingly no reason is far less pressing than in deserts. So appeasing nature seems like it works more often than it doesn't.
Essentially. the Ancient Near Eastern and Western cultures had to learn how to deal with the desert (dragon) and the only way to do that was kill it and turn it into something that wasn't the desert (dragon. The Far Eastern Cultures really could live in a temperate climate (dragon) without altering it too much, and so didn't have to kill the environment (dragon) they were in to do so.
The trouble starts when people who think they can/should be able to live with nature wind up in a geography/climate where that is really hard to do that with and don't want to alter nature (kill the dragon) strongly enough to keep themselves alive.
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sickbubble6059
I have commented many times before about native history
I am choctaw
We have a lore/myth story about the nahullos, giant, red haired, white skinned monsters that had a tribe north of the chickasaw for a few hundred years
Our story says they were cann8bals, they would raid chickasaw and chocyaw
We fought wars with them
Their numbers dwindled over time
Eventually there was only 1 of them left
Going crazy in the woods
We tried to end him but he escaped across the river
We never saw another nahullo until the s0anish/french showed up
We called them both nahullos, like from our lore story
If we have it on record the sands made it to Newfoundland in the 1100s, h9w many ships got lost in the Atlantic and washed up on the east coat or in florida
Oddly enough, if you look st eastern tribes, and Florida tribes, can find a suprising amount of medieval European words that sound exactly the same AND have the exact same meaning
The cher9kee were a Mayan tribe
They didn't come to NA until a few yrs before the euros
Iroquis let them lease land 9ff lake eerie
They watched iroquis wipe out tribe, conquer, get land
So when the elase ran up, they went back down river, then shot east, asking for nahullos
Once they got guns, they expelled the chickasaw form 1/2 their lands
If you look at Mayan cerek9nial complex and post 1400 Tennessee sites, they're the same layout
Where pree 1400 is the mound builder ceremonial center layout
Chickasaw lost half their lands
Cheroquis, cherokee, same thing. Is in French archives
Mayan
Choctaw didn't let them settle the missisisppi because they were Mayan, aka, human sacrificers
We wiped out another tribe for HS too
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whatifalthist
My dude, claiming Our Lady of Guadalupe is a continuation of nature paganism at 53: 57 is a Protestant and atheist dose of copium.
The cloth with that depiction is a miraculous image. It was examined by NASA scientists. The cloth is cactus burlap and should have rotted away after a couple decades, but still exists, no chemicals were found to have preserved it, and the image itself is floating above the cloth. No paint, except for the rays of light around the image (the bishop who first swe the cloth ordered the rays of light to be drawn on, since he claims he saw the image have light coming from it when it first appeared on the cloth in front of him. The image appeared as the flowers (which weren't supposed to grow that time of year and appeared suddenly on the hill without even growing there) fell off the cloth.
Some acid was accidentally spilled on it and the cloth somehow grew back. It's soft as silk on the side with the image. Rough as burlap on the side without, which is as it should be.
No con artist work or syncretism involved.
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whatifalthist
As with much of world history, from region to region, and culture to culture. as one grows in understanding and pursuing this understanding with a passion. time and time again over and over we find areas where discrepancies tend to lean more so to be that of an act of suppressed information rather than just a mistake. it becomes more obvious when the mainstream cult ideology whom themselves are foot soldiers of the establishment cry out or point their finger.
I have no doubt that many of our suspicions about North America and the people of Europe having interaction far before when we are told. however of course we have to consider always the tendency for this current establishment to psy op us at every level and every front today.
It’s unfortunate we cannot simply have institutions free of the political nonsense we face currently.
I am rough around the edges on this matter. I have no tolerance or patience for it. I’d just as soon take all the Marxists and communists and make examples of them for treason and muddying the waters.
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whatifalthist
Not sure how you think Christianity, where people were regularly tortured to death, as a service to them, to save them from damnation, by a God that will torture them forever in hell if they don't do as he says - could be nicer than the pre christian pagan religions of Europe.
I'm not anti-Christian, as modern Christians are chill, but that read of history is baffling to me. Eternal damnation, is definitionally, the most terrible and horrifying thing conceivable, and it made people terrified on a daily basis, and that the agents of satan could take them there, or that they weren't pious enough because they had a wank.
By Comparison, the worst the pagans did was human sacrifice, and even then, that was stuff they did to their foreign enemies who were trying to kill or subjugate them, and never as a punishment to 'save their immortal soul' from a savage God. - That I know of only the Gauls really did this anyway.
This may rub you the wrong way but I'm actually curious what you'd have to say about it.
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yc. 5. 6
I’m descended from the Chichimeca groups, I’m from SLP and most of my family is 80-90% native on my mom’s side with 50/50 European on my dad’s side.
On my mom’s side everyone is tall with people reaching 5’10-6’3, during the revolution the natives that lived in the SLP area were conscripted because they were physically built for labor/war and they had knowledge on using their environment to their advantage.
I know this has absolutely no correlation but I’ve always thought that my tendencies in shooter games mirror my ancestors from knowing when and where to hide and having a pretty good sense of direction to the point where I can always tell which way is north.
If anyone knows more about how genetics impact our psychological strengths and weaknesses please share, I’m increasingly curious on this topic.
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belstar1128
Since they were so isolated everything was different i wonder what would have happened if they existed longer and what kind if civilizations would evolve in north and south America. in Eurasia human sacrifice was common in the bronze age but it slowly got more taboo and eventually stopped completely. i guess eventually they would start trying to take over Europe Africa and Asia. its the sad reality of human history until quite recently if a country looked weak it was going to get invaded just because the invaders could do it without consequences. back then the resources were important for survival and they couldn't risk other civilizations catching up and attacking them instead even if it seemed very unlikely history is full of unlikely events
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ErmisSouldatos
Really interesting how different this society was. Even with China or Japan, we can still sort of feel what they were like and get in their minds. Mesoamerica sounds completely alien, so no wonder they called it the New World, since it was like a different world entirely, while at least Eurasia had millenia of contact and much more interconnected histories. The comparison with War of the Worlds is also apt, since the gap between the Mesoamericans and the Spaniards was huge, not just in technology, but also in worldview. They had developed in compete isolation from any other big society, in an environment alien to the vast majority of humans across history, and they really don't resemble anything of what we're familiar with.
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kinbalxel6322
Mexican here, I feel you hit some good insights and your perspective has some fresh takes. You condensed a lot of history into a short video pretty well, besides the word butchering, some odd mistakes and misconceptions. Most of it was brilliant.
You and others have inspired me to start a new cultural and social movement, the Neopatriarchy, as the woke mind virus is seeping into mexican society.
Since the start of modernity we lag behind the other developed and advanced nations in everything, mirroring them several years afterwards, but I can see it coming just like in Europe and the US, but men and a new tradition will rise up here and counter the advance of the woke
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sickbubble6059
Lots of similarities to the middle east
Both cultures had to submit/contend(not very greatly) with their environments, did not have enough points in technological advancement trees yet, even though they both had minor solutions, every now and then, thr environment just mollywhopped em even fi they did all they could do, can't see what rlly needs to be done if you haven't gotten the technological advancements that truly allow 1 to contend with nsture and win
They would've figured it out eventually, but not enough time before old world found it too
They did lag behind the old world, but only because it's such a big c9ntinent, took time to fill it
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whatifalthist
Also the figure of 20% full indigenous is only party correct. There's no set definition of what a indigenous vs mestizo is. Indigenous condition is self-identified, meaning that when the government makes the census they ask you what do you describe yourself as. So there's been a steady increase of self-reported indigenous population in the last 30 years. As previous censuses report only 5% of indigenous population, this population hasn't cuadrupled, only the amount of people describing themselves as indigenous has. For now, it is cool and fashionable to describe yourself as indigenous specially amongst left-wing inclined people.
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whatifalthist
The snake (or serpent if you prefer) is commonly associated with evil and destruction in a lot of cultures around the world, for instance think of the devil becoming a snake to tempt Adam and Eve to eat the apple, the reason is pretty much biological as the snake is second only to the mosquitos and other humans as for the amount of humans killed per year: around 150, 000 people per year globally. So, I am not surprised that a lot of myths put the end of the world and the snakes together. Moreover, since the Mexican civilisation was born in the middle of the jungle being killed by a snake would have been quite common.
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freddypowell7292
Spengler's discussion of Mesoamerica, at least in the decline, is far less developed than you suggest. Moreover, he was writing at a time before the decipherment of Maya writing, and as such he couldn't recognize the separation, both temporal and cultural, between the Aztecs and the Maya. The notion of the devouring earth is far too concrete to be a functional heuristic ursymbol. See the knots he tied himself in over Magia. Finally, we note particularly that the Maya were a strongly historical people, as evidenced by their insistence on dates and calendar.
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phillipswisher1447
Quetacoatl, or the Feathered Serpent, was described as a bearded White Man. This weaves into the Mormon thingthing. Anyhoo, Quetzacoatl was prophesised to return on the day One Reed, according to the calender system. Funny enough, Cortez showed up on One Reed. Had He been ONE DAY earlier or later, He would have been cooked, like Captain Cook. If You study the Calender System of the Maya and Aztec, it will blow Your mind. Also, the Maya where the first People on Earth to have the concept of zero in Their mathmatics.
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tonlito22
Reading Bernal del Diaz is astounding, both for what he says and what he implies. He says they were called teules, a phrase he says translates to a divinity short of god, that the leaders were typically called La Malinche because they always stood near Donna Marina, and kind of implies that The Powerful Montezuma (his phrasing) wanted to use the Spanish as mercenary generals and bodyguards, and that part of the Triple Alliance was in revolt.
I think more historians should give a good look at Bernal del Diaz.
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ErmisSouldatos
You should do a video on the various theories of people going to America before the Spaniards. You have talked about the Chinese or other East Asians possibly having contact with America, the theories about the Vikings having gone far souther than we originally thought, and inspiring the Ketzalkoatl myths, as well as the one about Irish and English fishermen having stumbled on America and keeping it a secret from others before Columbus forced them to admit it openly
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wetzel4806
On the viking segment: while anythings possible, most people dispute them getting as far as mexico. While the depictions sound good, we also know there are legends from far before that stretching further north about 'cannibal giants', many mentioned to also hae red hair. Most assume its a carry over from those stories as the early mexicans traveled south, along with any other culture's habbit of making 'human, but with x special attribute, like differet skin or faces'.
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VK-q7p
The Vikings in South America theory has some more evidence to it. It seems Vikings arrived to Azores, for exemple local mice have dna simmilar to scandinavian mice rather than mediteranean. If they did, it means they sailed much further to the south in atlantic than previously thought. Also, there is a debate about mummies of dogs of Inca nobility that also seem to be a breed that existed in Europe at that time (Denmark concretely) but is not native to South America.
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billyclyde5129
This was an interesting film. At one point you compare mesoamerica to Sumer/mesopotamia and I can see why. But I think you are looking at babylonian religion and attributing it to Sumer. Babylonian and Sumerian religions aren't the same animal.
I recommend reading Treasures Of Darkness, A history of Sumerian religion by Thorkild Jacobsen. You'll be surprised at the oldest version.
It would actually make for a good episode.
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chuckhoyle1211
I, literally, laughed out loud when the Maya were described as, basically, hippies. They were not nearly as bloodthirsty as the Aztecs, who were aside form Communists, but they were anything but peaceful. We really need to get this noble savage nonsense out of our collective conciseness. The vast majority of ancient people would be considered bloodthirsty psychopaths by todays standards.
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