High Evolutionary Is The Villain Kang Should Be - Marvel Has To Learn From This!
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I agree that:
1. High Evolutionary was a well written character.
1. Brilliant villain.
3. More show and less hide.
4. GOTG 3 is a better movie than Antman 3.
5. Writing in Antman 3 was sub-par.
However I do not agree that:
1. High Evolutionary (HE) was a better character, even from a writing perspective than He who remains/Kang. There is just 1 HE however there are thousands of Kangs and none of them are perfect while all of them are dangerous. So Kang's character is banking on being omnipresent within MCU and hence the 'so called big reveal' you hoped for was always going to be a slow burn as opposed to an inconsequential character such as HE being revealed completely. HE got 1 movie and he pretty much ran out of gas at the end of the movie. HE doesn't matter much to MCU, sadly GOTG 3 itself might as well be an Inconsequential movie for MCU starting Phase 4.
2. Kang was all talk and no show. Do remember that Thanos was teased for years before he made his big entry. The same treatment is given to Kang (now it would be a good argument if each Phase villain needs the same introduction strategy as Thanos.
3. Kang is not brilliant. Kang from Antman had built up rage being stuck in quantum realm for a long time, which could've clouded his judgment. However, the writers failed to convey this important facet of this version of Kang and ended up showing him a fool. Not all variants will be the same. So yes, even though we got to see a Kang which got killed by ants, we are yet to see a boss level Kang in MCU, so it's too early to judge.
Date: 2023-05-15
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Comments and reviews: 14
Deserak
While I agree this is definitely the best film the MCU has had in a while, and the high evolutionary was a masterpiece villain, I don't think it's entirely fair to compare him and Kang, at least not yet. There's three reasons for this:
1) Just where the story is at for each character. High Evolutionary got a full story arc in this film. He COULD show up again, sure, but his role in the story was written to be a complete story. Kang is meant to be a overarching villain. At BEST we're at the midpoint of Kang's story, but even that much feels like a stretch to me. If you only look at High E. up to a similar point in his story arc, most of the stuff you've highlighted as why he's such a better villain wouldn't have happened yet.
2) Expectations are working against Kang. Before he even got hinted at on screen there was heaps of speculation as to what villain would be the next Thanos, and much of the last few years of MCU have suffered from a lot of overhype (Pretty much everything since endgame up till guardians three I've walked out thinking I would have enjoyed that more if I hadn't gone in expecting something better. Every time Kang is on screen we're expecting this untouchable demi-god like Thanos to have everyone shaking in their boots, and then we're disappointed when it's just some guy. Compare that to High E. - Up until now, there had just been Rocket's scars and his I didn't ask to get torn apart over and over again line in guardians 1, but that's about it. The only expectation prior to High E. appearing on screen was Whoever this guy is I'm not going to like him. If you're expecting nothing, then a 7/10 is still pretty good, but if you're expecting a 10, then a 7 is disappointing.
3) Last is down to what makes these villains a threat, and ties into the last two because it's working against Kang at this point. High E. is a threat because he's callus and obsessed - his dream of perfection is all that matters and he doesn't value life at all. Destroying an entire planet and civilization is no different to him that wiping clean a white board to give him room to work. He's smart, sure, but all the scenes that get pointed out as this is why he's a dangerous villain are moments that showcase how he has zero empathy. He won't stop because he can't comprehend why he should.
Meanwhile what makes Kang a threat because he's always going to come back. You can beat him and kill him but that just means another version of him will show up, learn from the last versions mistakes, and carry on from there. There's always another to take his place sooner or later. But that works best as a slow burn. If they establish that as the reason he's a threat the first time he shows up, then the heroes have to find a way to overcome that pretty much immediately or it's a weak ending. Keeping that in the background while hyping up how dangerous a single Kang can be means you can have a dozen different stories all ending with Kang getting defeated one way or another before the different heroes start comparing notes, realize the same guy keeps coming back, and then have the full stakes battle.
So yeah. I agree High E. is one of the best villains in the MCU to date, it's not really fair as a direct comparison.
Plus, I'm kind of expecting a reveal down the line that High E. was actually a Kang variant - both opt for purple suits, both develop gravity manipulation tech (and High E. is clear that he developed that himself, both have been portrayed as having a tendency to shift from calm and almost friendly to utterly unhinged at a moments notice, facial scars seem to be a common trait for Kang, both have proven able to amass a notable number of minions that operate as an organization rather than pure military, both have been shown to prefer titles over their actual name ( He Who Remains, High Evolutionary ) - given it's already well established from both Spiderman and Loki that variants with different appearances/actors aren't unheard of, I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen this being theorized anywhere yet. And if it turns out that High E. actually IS a Kang variant that would kind of make this all a moot debate lol
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While I agree this is definitely the best film the MCU has had in a while, and the high evolutionary was a masterpiece villain, I don't think it's entirely fair to compare him and Kang, at least not yet. There's three reasons for this:
1) Just where the story is at for each character. High Evolutionary got a full story arc in this film. He COULD show up again, sure, but his role in the story was written to be a complete story. Kang is meant to be a overarching villain. At BEST we're at the midpoint of Kang's story, but even that much feels like a stretch to me. If you only look at High E. up to a similar point in his story arc, most of the stuff you've highlighted as why he's such a better villain wouldn't have happened yet.
2) Expectations are working against Kang. Before he even got hinted at on screen there was heaps of speculation as to what villain would be the next Thanos, and much of the last few years of MCU have suffered from a lot of overhype (Pretty much everything since endgame up till guardians three I've walked out thinking I would have enjoyed that more if I hadn't gone in expecting something better. Every time Kang is on screen we're expecting this untouchable demi-god like Thanos to have everyone shaking in their boots, and then we're disappointed when it's just some guy. Compare that to High E. - Up until now, there had just been Rocket's scars and his I didn't ask to get torn apart over and over again line in guardians 1, but that's about it. The only expectation prior to High E. appearing on screen was Whoever this guy is I'm not going to like him. If you're expecting nothing, then a 7/10 is still pretty good, but if you're expecting a 10, then a 7 is disappointing.
3) Last is down to what makes these villains a threat, and ties into the last two because it's working against Kang at this point. High E. is a threat because he's callus and obsessed - his dream of perfection is all that matters and he doesn't value life at all. Destroying an entire planet and civilization is no different to him that wiping clean a white board to give him room to work. He's smart, sure, but all the scenes that get pointed out as this is why he's a dangerous villain are moments that showcase how he has zero empathy. He won't stop because he can't comprehend why he should.
Meanwhile what makes Kang a threat because he's always going to come back. You can beat him and kill him but that just means another version of him will show up, learn from the last versions mistakes, and carry on from there. There's always another to take his place sooner or later. But that works best as a slow burn. If they establish that as the reason he's a threat the first time he shows up, then the heroes have to find a way to overcome that pretty much immediately or it's a weak ending. Keeping that in the background while hyping up how dangerous a single Kang can be means you can have a dozen different stories all ending with Kang getting defeated one way or another before the different heroes start comparing notes, realize the same guy keeps coming back, and then have the full stakes battle.
So yeah. I agree High E. is one of the best villains in the MCU to date, it's not really fair as a direct comparison.
Plus, I'm kind of expecting a reveal down the line that High E. was actually a Kang variant - both opt for purple suits, both develop gravity manipulation tech (and High E. is clear that he developed that himself, both have been portrayed as having a tendency to shift from calm and almost friendly to utterly unhinged at a moments notice, facial scars seem to be a common trait for Kang, both have proven able to amass a notable number of minions that operate as an organization rather than pure military, both have been shown to prefer titles over their actual name ( He Who Remains, High Evolutionary ) - given it's already well established from both Spiderman and Loki that variants with different appearances/actors aren't unheard of, I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen this being theorized anywhere yet. And if it turns out that High E. actually IS a Kang variant that would kind of make this all a moot debate lol
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Apoorv
I agree on most points like with kang we are only told things and haven't seen him do much. But it is obvious he isn't as powerful there as he is supposed to be. That's why he is desperate to get out of there.
And btw kang was handling the ants well unless modok came in, but that is true he didn't anticipate anything like that could happen.
You said he didn't make things personal, but didn't he kidnap cassie and threatened to kill her? And we know he could do that easily with his telekinesis powers.
Plus he was beating scott and was about to kill him without his suit ( comparing with thanos almost killing iron man and in this movie Adam almost killing rocket)
And the point about H. E going against tougher opponents like adam doesn't make sense while comparing with kang as he just didn't have any stronger opponents than antfam or modok at most.
I agree though H. E was written better but kang wasn't bad too, he lost due to circumstances or luck not because of antman's strength or anything, plus the psychological terror he(kang) brings is still something we haven't seen till now in mcu. Hopefully he will be done justice in upcoming movies
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I agree on most points like with kang we are only told things and haven't seen him do much. But it is obvious he isn't as powerful there as he is supposed to be. That's why he is desperate to get out of there.
And btw kang was handling the ants well unless modok came in, but that is true he didn't anticipate anything like that could happen.
You said he didn't make things personal, but didn't he kidnap cassie and threatened to kill her? And we know he could do that easily with his telekinesis powers.
Plus he was beating scott and was about to kill him without his suit ( comparing with thanos almost killing iron man and in this movie Adam almost killing rocket)
And the point about H. E going against tougher opponents like adam doesn't make sense while comparing with kang as he just didn't have any stronger opponents than antfam or modok at most.
I agree though H. E was written better but kang wasn't bad too, he lost due to circumstances or luck not because of antman's strength or anything, plus the psychological terror he(kang) brings is still something we haven't seen till now in mcu. Hopefully he will be done justice in upcoming movies
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Josh
I think you re looking for too much too soon with Kang. They re building him up for what s happening next. Why do you need them to go through his character so fast when he s going to be in other movies? Most marvel fans know his character anyways. I think you should be a little patient and just wait to see what they re going to do with him because I have a feeling it s going to be awesome. Oh yeah and if Modok didn t do anything the ants would ve lost but Kang was too distracted by the ants to know he was coming up in him till he said something. Also maybe towards Janet because he thought he didn t have to because Kang is a monster and could take it back until Janet blow it up. But who could ve predicted that she was going to do that? I mean come on dude, he swatted and Scott and Hope down with a literal swat at the air. His defense was so strong it took no effort at all. I assume you watched the credit scene with the other Kangs showing somethings, they re stronger than him. The high Evolutionary got beat by Rocket and his antigravity boots and his gun. It took Hope and Scott with anything they could muster just to knock him into his core to kill him.
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I think you re looking for too much too soon with Kang. They re building him up for what s happening next. Why do you need them to go through his character so fast when he s going to be in other movies? Most marvel fans know his character anyways. I think you should be a little patient and just wait to see what they re going to do with him because I have a feeling it s going to be awesome. Oh yeah and if Modok didn t do anything the ants would ve lost but Kang was too distracted by the ants to know he was coming up in him till he said something. Also maybe towards Janet because he thought he didn t have to because Kang is a monster and could take it back until Janet blow it up. But who could ve predicted that she was going to do that? I mean come on dude, he swatted and Scott and Hope down with a literal swat at the air. His defense was so strong it took no effort at all. I assume you watched the credit scene with the other Kangs showing somethings, they re stronger than him. The high Evolutionary got beat by Rocket and his antigravity boots and his gun. It took Hope and Scott with anything they could muster just to knock him into his core to kill him.
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Activity
Well, HEAR ME OUT.
Kang is supposed to be a villain for a whole 3 phases. Take Thanos as an example, we didn't see him until Avengers 1, which was almost the end for Phase 1. We never saw his full potential until Infinity War. Even for just John Wick 1, for the very first minutes, we were just shown how dangerous John Wick is, how John Wick is the person you send to kill Boogeyman. Kang is still in that phase, it is poor writing, something to notice, but you are exaggerating to a level that your expectations are unrealistically high.
And for the part when you talk about powers, Kang erases whole timelines and you need a hella lot of power for that. But for High Evolutionary and Adam Warlock, they were always in the building/satellite like thing, High Evolutionary's home. He never went out of the building as far as I remember, so, at the first point, we see he has higher ground, of course he will be powerful.
My idea behind the points is not that you are wrong, but don't forget these important parts. These points, if stressed upon, can change the part, if not whole comparison.
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Well, HEAR ME OUT.
Kang is supposed to be a villain for a whole 3 phases. Take Thanos as an example, we didn't see him until Avengers 1, which was almost the end for Phase 1. We never saw his full potential until Infinity War. Even for just John Wick 1, for the very first minutes, we were just shown how dangerous John Wick is, how John Wick is the person you send to kill Boogeyman. Kang is still in that phase, it is poor writing, something to notice, but you are exaggerating to a level that your expectations are unrealistically high.
And for the part when you talk about powers, Kang erases whole timelines and you need a hella lot of power for that. But for High Evolutionary and Adam Warlock, they were always in the building/satellite like thing, High Evolutionary's home. He never went out of the building as far as I remember, so, at the first point, we see he has higher ground, of course he will be powerful.
My idea behind the points is not that you are wrong, but don't forget these important parts. These points, if stressed upon, can change the part, if not whole comparison.
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Prithu
I 100 percent agree with you Lad. High Evolutionary is a very good. Overall movie was very good. The thing i liked about this movie was that they started the movie at a fast pace, by that i mean that only after 5 mintues we rocket got injured and we already thought that the characters were going to die because Adam Warlock was too powerful. But still even after that Jamed Gunn managed to ensure character development of all characters, with no forced humor good direction and good writing. I really loved the visuals and loved the backstory of Rocket, the way it was shown and i really the voice work Bradley Cooper. Im really impressed by James Gunn that he managed to make me cry for a talking raccoon. I really love his work. He made Suicide squad better, he made guardians very good and now he will make the DCEU good.
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I 100 percent agree with you Lad. High Evolutionary is a very good. Overall movie was very good. The thing i liked about this movie was that they started the movie at a fast pace, by that i mean that only after 5 mintues we rocket got injured and we already thought that the characters were going to die because Adam Warlock was too powerful. But still even after that Jamed Gunn managed to ensure character development of all characters, with no forced humor good direction and good writing. I really loved the visuals and loved the backstory of Rocket, the way it was shown and i really the voice work Bradley Cooper. Im really impressed by James Gunn that he managed to make me cry for a talking raccoon. I really love his work. He made Suicide squad better, he made guardians very good and now he will make the DCEU good.
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Vierwu
I think you nailed all of the points. GoTG vol. 3 is unlike most of the MCU movies. We cared all of the Guardians characters and that's why I always afraid that one of them is going to die (mostly Rocket/Drax) because the villain's objective is very personal.
Kang on the other hand feels like another MCU homework that we need to learn throughout the Multiverse saga. I was expecting one of the Ant-Man characters to die to lift up the stakes for the future movies but surprisingly they survived. And I was a bit disappointed. Maybe because I don't have any connection to any of these characters. I actually rooted for Kang to win at the end but maybe he would make a surprising return in the future movies? Who knows.
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I think you nailed all of the points. GoTG vol. 3 is unlike most of the MCU movies. We cared all of the Guardians characters and that's why I always afraid that one of them is going to die (mostly Rocket/Drax) because the villain's objective is very personal.
Kang on the other hand feels like another MCU homework that we need to learn throughout the Multiverse saga. I was expecting one of the Ant-Man characters to die to lift up the stakes for the future movies but surprisingly they survived. And I was a bit disappointed. Maybe because I don't have any connection to any of these characters. I actually rooted for Kang to win at the end but maybe he would make a surprising return in the future movies? Who knows.
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Justin
It's crazy how fast people switch up on Kang. Just a few months ago people were saying how Kang was the best part of Antman 3 and how menacing he was. The High Evolutionary has 1 movie while Kang is going to have a lot of build up like Thanos got. The High Evolutionary was also defeated just as quickly and easily as Kang was defeated by an army of highly intelligent giant ants, plus M. O. D. O. K. sacrificing himself to defeat help try to take out Kang, but no one is saying how weak The High Evolutionary is. If people don't think Jonathan Majors can be menacing, just watch Creed 3 and tell me he won't be a great grand villain in the end.
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It's crazy how fast people switch up on Kang. Just a few months ago people were saying how Kang was the best part of Antman 3 and how menacing he was. The High Evolutionary has 1 movie while Kang is going to have a lot of build up like Thanos got. The High Evolutionary was also defeated just as quickly and easily as Kang was defeated by an army of highly intelligent giant ants, plus M. O. D. O. K. sacrificing himself to defeat help try to take out Kang, but no one is saying how weak The High Evolutionary is. If people don't think Jonathan Majors can be menacing, just watch Creed 3 and tell me he won't be a great grand villain in the end.
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MadMovies
I think High Evolutionary was meant to be in only one movie and might have cameos in next Avengers movie, that's why he has better storyline & much more exposure in GOTG3 (Thanks to James Gunn. But Kang has to be in multiple MCU movies and has to fight multiple superheroes on different levels. Only in Kang Dynasty & Secret Wars, we will see the real threat Kang possess for Multiverse, like MCU did with Thanos' cameos. So MCU will not show Kang at its best before end of next two phases. High Evolutionary is like Red Skull, Best in Origin movie and will come in cameos in further MCU movies.
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I think High Evolutionary was meant to be in only one movie and might have cameos in next Avengers movie, that's why he has better storyline & much more exposure in GOTG3 (Thanks to James Gunn. But Kang has to be in multiple MCU movies and has to fight multiple superheroes on different levels. Only in Kang Dynasty & Secret Wars, we will see the real threat Kang possess for Multiverse, like MCU did with Thanos' cameos. So MCU will not show Kang at its best before end of next two phases. High Evolutionary is like Red Skull, Best in Origin movie and will come in cameos in further MCU movies.
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The
I agree that High Evolutionary was a better villain than Kang, but that version of Kang is not at his strongest. He doesn t have access to all of his tech. He was able to conquer the whole quantum realm with just his suit alone. Also, the ants didn t defeat him. They couldn t get past his force field until MODOK weakened it, and even then, they didn t defeat him they just damaged his armor. Ant-Man and Wasp were just able to knock him back into that collapsing portal thing. Idk I was a little disappointed with Kang s feats, but I don t think he was really defeated by the ants.
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I agree that High Evolutionary was a better villain than Kang, but that version of Kang is not at his strongest. He doesn t have access to all of his tech. He was able to conquer the whole quantum realm with just his suit alone. Also, the ants didn t defeat him. They couldn t get past his force field until MODOK weakened it, and even then, they didn t defeat him they just damaged his armor. Ant-Man and Wasp were just able to knock him back into that collapsing portal thing. Idk I was a little disappointed with Kang s feats, but I don t think he was really defeated by the ants.
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SuperSaiyan3985
Yeah no, I call BS. The High Evolutionary s a good villain but I wouldn t say he s better than Kang. Kang was honestly the only redeeming factor of Ant-Man 3 for me. His presence on screen is rivaled only by Thanos, and they did a great job of establishing how he s a force to be reckoned with. Meanwhile, the High Evolutionary s a threat yes, but he s just straight up evil for the sake of being evil. The difference between these two is that Kang had a bad movie, whereas High Evolutionary had a good movie. That s probably why you think the latter was written better.
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Yeah no, I call BS. The High Evolutionary s a good villain but I wouldn t say he s better than Kang. Kang was honestly the only redeeming factor of Ant-Man 3 for me. His presence on screen is rivaled only by Thanos, and they did a great job of establishing how he s a force to be reckoned with. Meanwhile, the High Evolutionary s a threat yes, but he s just straight up evil for the sake of being evil. The difference between these two is that Kang had a bad movie, whereas High Evolutionary had a good movie. That s probably why you think the latter was written better.
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Tomnickles
SPOILERS!
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I definitely agree with this. The only thing I don't agree with is the Peter Quill screaming scene. Rocket's was MUCH MUCH more powerful to me. I know you aren't trying to do spoilers but that whole scene when he knew rocket would do something like this was, emotionally, the best scene for me. And The High Evolutionary just getting annoyed as Rocket stood there screaming over his friend dying made me hate/love him even more!
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SPOILERS!
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I definitely agree with this. The only thing I don't agree with is the Peter Quill screaming scene. Rocket's was MUCH MUCH more powerful to me. I know you aren't trying to do spoilers but that whole scene when he knew rocket would do something like this was, emotionally, the best scene for me. And The High Evolutionary just getting annoyed as Rocket stood there screaming over his friend dying made me hate/love him even more!
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permeus
So I don t know what it is about Kang but I just can t buy him as this master manipulator that has been controlling everything behind the scenes heck I m having a hard time buying him as a villain at all, if it turns out that he hasn t been doing any of this and just happened to get lucky and be the last man alive because the last two real bad guys oneshot each other in a stand off and now he is there been all like well as I m the last one alive no one can say I didn t do all this stuff
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So I don t know what it is about Kang but I just can t buy him as this master manipulator that has been controlling everything behind the scenes heck I m having a hard time buying him as a villain at all, if it turns out that he hasn t been doing any of this and just happened to get lucky and be the last man alive because the last two real bad guys oneshot each other in a stand off and now he is there been all like well as I m the last one alive no one can say I didn t do all this stuff
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Maziar
Brother they didn't show kangs doing in the past on screen because kang is 10 times bigger than that villain in guardians, they needed back story for him, average marvel fans don't know him. But everyone knows kang, there is no need to waste movies time to show who he is and what he did. In future marvel movies, they will show us glimpses of what kang did and if they don't, it's still fine because kang is as I said 10 times bigger that that guy, in Marvel movies, comics and also acting.
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Brother they didn't show kangs doing in the past on screen because kang is 10 times bigger than that villain in guardians, they needed back story for him, average marvel fans don't know him. But everyone knows kang, there is no need to waste movies time to show who he is and what he did. In future marvel movies, they will show us glimpses of what kang did and if they don't, it's still fine because kang is as I said 10 times bigger that that guy, in Marvel movies, comics and also acting.
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Manoja
One thing I would add is that Kang the Conqueror had lost all his powers in Quantumania, he was in a prison. He had lost all his powers making him a normal human being. Kang does not have physical power like others, he has mind power, technologies, that's the main reason he lost to ants. I think this is where the writers should have focused on showing Kang lost all his powers that would make total sense why he lost against an Avenger like Antman and the Ants.
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One thing I would add is that Kang the Conqueror had lost all his powers in Quantumania, he was in a prison. He had lost all his powers making him a normal human being. Kang does not have physical power like others, he has mind power, technologies, that's the main reason he lost to ants. I think this is where the writers should have focused on showing Kang lost all his powers that would make total sense why he lost against an Avenger like Antman and the Ants.
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