4.35 Fix for Intel Thermal Problems Thermalright 12th Gen Contact Frame
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Date: 2022-07-29
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Comments and reviews: 14
Allan
Thank for doing this, wish you had posted this 2 days earlier. However, I did manage to install mine and it seems to work great the first try. I just used my fingers to twist the torx bit without using the handle.
I clocked the screws and went in half turn increments until I felt ressistance, then when all four had some resistance I then back them and then snugged them a few times to try and make sure the frame was squared. THen I tightened in in a few passes following a the pattern until I could turn the screw anymore without undue effort using just thumb and finger. Going around an extra time just to be sure they all felt the same tightness.
Not sure if the frame is against the motherboard, I did this in the case with the case on it's back and working around a vertical GPU mount and the hoses for a custom loop. Yes, I used to be a mechanic so this isn't an unusual thing to 'flat rate' something.
It works fine, did take 3 weeks to get with most of that time the product sitting in China and then sitting at customs. The actual days in transit were suprisingly few.
The most stressful thing is that the CPU looks to have some surface components so the frame only goes on the cpu one way to not hit those, but this results in the printing being upside down. The frame I used would only allow the CPU to full seat/protrude evenly all the way around in one direction so this is how I oriented it. I used the knockoff to the Thermalright with the '12th Gen' printing on Amazon selling for 12-18 dollars. I did not at the time I ordered it realize it was shipping from China, I don't like ordering directly from China.
Realistically now that I know that the frame is designed to sit flush on the motherboard when tightened properly this makes installation in some ways even easier than Intel's ILM since there is no lateral forces involved and crunching noises.
To be clear, I tried to find deBauer's product. I also ordered Thermal Grizzly paste. I would happily pay more to support good capitalism. I think the idea of the contact frame bottoming on the motherboard is actually genius and something Thermal Grizzly should consider in a version 2 and to make these for all LGA CPU sockets.
Please derBauer, sell them directly on Amazon with shipping by Amazon?
And Steve, I love the tools I've bought and want more. Some suggestions are: A vacuum fill system for open loop coolers, like the pressure testers by EK but with a manifold so you can use the vacuum to pull coolant from a bottle using a tube connecting to a valve. You manually pump to put the system under vacuum to test for leaks, then close the valve to the pump on the manifold and open the other valve to pull coolant in to the loop. This is how you fill many cars, like German cars. Another idea is an adjustable low torque screw driver handle that operates between say 0.05 and 0.6Nm.
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Thank for doing this, wish you had posted this 2 days earlier. However, I did manage to install mine and it seems to work great the first try. I just used my fingers to twist the torx bit without using the handle.
I clocked the screws and went in half turn increments until I felt ressistance, then when all four had some resistance I then back them and then snugged them a few times to try and make sure the frame was squared. THen I tightened in in a few passes following a the pattern until I could turn the screw anymore without undue effort using just thumb and finger. Going around an extra time just to be sure they all felt the same tightness.
Not sure if the frame is against the motherboard, I did this in the case with the case on it's back and working around a vertical GPU mount and the hoses for a custom loop. Yes, I used to be a mechanic so this isn't an unusual thing to 'flat rate' something.
It works fine, did take 3 weeks to get with most of that time the product sitting in China and then sitting at customs. The actual days in transit were suprisingly few.
The most stressful thing is that the CPU looks to have some surface components so the frame only goes on the cpu one way to not hit those, but this results in the printing being upside down. The frame I used would only allow the CPU to full seat/protrude evenly all the way around in one direction so this is how I oriented it. I used the knockoff to the Thermalright with the '12th Gen' printing on Amazon selling for 12-18 dollars. I did not at the time I ordered it realize it was shipping from China, I don't like ordering directly from China.
Realistically now that I know that the frame is designed to sit flush on the motherboard when tightened properly this makes installation in some ways even easier than Intel's ILM since there is no lateral forces involved and crunching noises.
To be clear, I tried to find deBauer's product. I also ordered Thermal Grizzly paste. I would happily pay more to support good capitalism. I think the idea of the contact frame bottoming on the motherboard is actually genius and something Thermal Grizzly should consider in a version 2 and to make these for all LGA CPU sockets.
Please derBauer, sell them directly on Amazon with shipping by Amazon?
And Steve, I love the tools I've bought and want more. Some suggestions are: A vacuum fill system for open loop coolers, like the pressure testers by EK but with a manifold so you can use the vacuum to pull coolant from a bottle using a tube connecting to a valve. You manually pump to put the system under vacuum to test for leaks, then close the valve to the pump on the manifold and open the other valve to pull coolant in to the loop. This is how you fill many cars, like German cars. Another idea is an adjustable low torque screw driver handle that operates between say 0.05 and 0.6Nm.
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Jack
I wouldn't really trust a digital vernier to compare how accurate each frame is to the next, especially if it is a cheap-o vernier. Your average digital vernier is going to be accurate from .001 inches (if its really high quality, like 150 bucks plus) all the way to .005 inches, on average you're looking at an accuracy to within about .002 to .003 inches. It is also incredibly easy to get false readings on a digital vernier by applying way too much pressure depending on the material you're measuring, and your vernier could also not be calibrated/zero'd properly.
You either need to indicate it on a completely flat surface for best results, or a less expensive option would be to use a micrometer. You generally don't need to apply much pressure when measuring with either a vernier or micrometer.
I'm a plastic injection mold maker, and I just find it really hard to believe that Intel would be cool with their mold spitting out heat sensitive parts that are 10 thou out, just seems like something their engineers would lose their sht over. Then again I make molds for car parts, so standards might be different? I can guarantee you that they had the mold and the part CMM'd, there's a lot of quality control involved, I just don't see that kind of thing flying for a part like that. I could be wrong though!
Either way, my suggestion is that if you're going to get that accurate, ditch the vernier and get yourself a 0-1 micrometer. The cheapest mic can be relied on to get you to within .001 inch, or 1 thou, which is pretty damn good. A really good micrometer can give you a reading to within 5/10ths of an inch.
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I wouldn't really trust a digital vernier to compare how accurate each frame is to the next, especially if it is a cheap-o vernier. Your average digital vernier is going to be accurate from .001 inches (if its really high quality, like 150 bucks plus) all the way to .005 inches, on average you're looking at an accuracy to within about .002 to .003 inches. It is also incredibly easy to get false readings on a digital vernier by applying way too much pressure depending on the material you're measuring, and your vernier could also not be calibrated/zero'd properly.
You either need to indicate it on a completely flat surface for best results, or a less expensive option would be to use a micrometer. You generally don't need to apply much pressure when measuring with either a vernier or micrometer.
I'm a plastic injection mold maker, and I just find it really hard to believe that Intel would be cool with their mold spitting out heat sensitive parts that are 10 thou out, just seems like something their engineers would lose their sht over. Then again I make molds for car parts, so standards might be different? I can guarantee you that they had the mold and the part CMM'd, there's a lot of quality control involved, I just don't see that kind of thing flying for a part like that. I could be wrong though!
Either way, my suggestion is that if you're going to get that accurate, ditch the vernier and get yourself a 0-1 micrometer. The cheapest mic can be relied on to get you to within .001 inch, or 1 thou, which is pretty damn good. A really good micrometer can give you a reading to within 5/10ths of an inch.
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DexMaster881
Thank you guys for fighting for Our consumer rights.
Thanks Thermalight for defending the Honor of us Engineers.
As I said Last time I always cringe and feel ashamed when people use general public ignorance about Specific engineering process to upsell products.
TG new explanation about Production cost is understandable, and I have nothing against it. But selling a story of That's what it cost vs That's what it costs us is 2 very different stories.
First thing We learn in Engineering is Over-designing redundancy in, and implementing under-desgn to induce failure point. When we talk about long term products that need to be serviced actively, so they can pay off design and production expense to the manufacturer during the lifespan of the product since the customer wont buy another product fast enough to cover for it..
Depending on What industry you work in and What dangers failure point can result in, they are sometimes even Ignored.
For example: Automotive brakes NEVER have integrated failure points.
But Selling 40 micron story as necessary is a bit shameless.
Also Torque isnt relevant to the point you push it to as long as you use common sense.
It's not a Jet but its also not a cube of Sugar either.
If the tolerances are well calculated Even overtightening will just set it in its place unless you tighten it so much the Aluminium starts to dig into the PCB.
Back to you Steve...
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Thank you guys for fighting for Our consumer rights.
Thanks Thermalight for defending the Honor of us Engineers.
As I said Last time I always cringe and feel ashamed when people use general public ignorance about Specific engineering process to upsell products.
TG new explanation about Production cost is understandable, and I have nothing against it. But selling a story of That's what it cost vs That's what it costs us is 2 very different stories.
First thing We learn in Engineering is Over-designing redundancy in, and implementing under-desgn to induce failure point. When we talk about long term products that need to be serviced actively, so they can pay off design and production expense to the manufacturer during the lifespan of the product since the customer wont buy another product fast enough to cover for it..
Depending on What industry you work in and What dangers failure point can result in, they are sometimes even Ignored.
For example: Automotive brakes NEVER have integrated failure points.
But Selling 40 micron story as necessary is a bit shameless.
Also Torque isnt relevant to the point you push it to as long as you use common sense.
It's not a Jet but its also not a cube of Sugar either.
If the tolerances are well calculated Even overtightening will just set it in its place unless you tighten it so much the Aluminium starts to dig into the PCB.
Back to you Steve...
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Jan
I'd be careful with this - just because it touches PCB, so if you overscrew, you might damage Motherboard. Otherwise great solution. Though you wonder how much the workers are getting if 40% of the price is in material and I assume that they also want to make a profit. If this price also covers transport from China, then they are either producing them by millions to make it standard in China or they use very desperate people who don't have any choice and the possibility of 1 meal a day or place to sleep is the only thing that keeps them from dying.
If someone sells it in US for 15-20 - they are scamming you basically! Because the importer is making at least 10-20 times more than manufacturer. If said manufacturer uses slaves. If they don't, then importer is making 100 times more profits than manufacturer and worker still isn't paid that much.
As much as it is a great solution, the price of 4.35 if the costs of material are indeed 2 is scary as heck. That's not a good price. That's robbery - quite possibly literal that you'd take part in. If it was sold for 6 - yeah it would probably be okay. But 4.35 isn't unless it is made in such huge numbers to somehow make the money of it. How many people in the west even buy those? 10.000? 20.000? So literally China must have this as new standard - which is possible, if it is very popular.
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I'd be careful with this - just because it touches PCB, so if you overscrew, you might damage Motherboard. Otherwise great solution. Though you wonder how much the workers are getting if 40% of the price is in material and I assume that they also want to make a profit. If this price also covers transport from China, then they are either producing them by millions to make it standard in China or they use very desperate people who don't have any choice and the possibility of 1 meal a day or place to sleep is the only thing that keeps them from dying.
If someone sells it in US for 15-20 - they are scamming you basically! Because the importer is making at least 10-20 times more than manufacturer. If said manufacturer uses slaves. If they don't, then importer is making 100 times more profits than manufacturer and worker still isn't paid that much.
As much as it is a great solution, the price of 4.35 if the costs of material are indeed 2 is scary as heck. That's not a good price. That's robbery - quite possibly literal that you'd take part in. If it was sold for 6 - yeah it would probably be okay. But 4.35 isn't unless it is made in such huge numbers to somehow make the money of it. How many people in the west even buy those? 10.000? 20.000? So literally China must have this as new standard - which is possible, if it is very popular.
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Marcman
It's nice to see that an affordable product can produce a large improvement over the stock option. It makes it more possible that significant upgrades is attainable for the average person. Perhaps Intel should change to that style of contact frame as stock, and do as AMD did with the Threadrippers and include a tool with the correct torque setting pre-applied.
Feedback for video time!
I quite like the veeery slow and subtle pan on the Steve talks shots, but I feel like it might be a bit too much to have on all the shots. Particularly the parts where Steve holds an object the viewer might want to focus on, like the pressure papers at 8:45 and the motherboard at 11:45, I found it somewhat distracting. It can get a little tiring.
Very, very tasteful on both the beginning and the ending of the video though. If that was the only shots with the slow pan, I would see those parts as clearly distinguished as beginning/intro and conclusion of the video and lend some additional focus to those parts.
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It's nice to see that an affordable product can produce a large improvement over the stock option. It makes it more possible that significant upgrades is attainable for the average person. Perhaps Intel should change to that style of contact frame as stock, and do as AMD did with the Threadrippers and include a tool with the correct torque setting pre-applied.
Feedback for video time!
I quite like the veeery slow and subtle pan on the Steve talks shots, but I feel like it might be a bit too much to have on all the shots. Particularly the parts where Steve holds an object the viewer might want to focus on, like the pressure papers at 8:45 and the motherboard at 11:45, I found it somewhat distracting. It can get a little tiring.
Very, very tasteful on both the beginning and the ending of the video though. If that was the only shots with the slow pan, I would see those parts as clearly distinguished as beginning/intro and conclusion of the video and lend some additional focus to those parts.
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Lazeerer
3 months for shipping? I mean i get you dont want to put down thermal grizzly but come on. Ive been ordering from oversea for years now thousands of items and i normally get things within 2 weeks to 1 months Max. Usually falls somewhere in between. Im from the US. So unless you live somewhere in the boonies i think most get stuff in less then a month in 2022. Its extremely rare to take 2+ or even 3 months. You be a fool to spend all that extra money on thermal grizzly version. Save that extra 30 Bucks. and FWIW im a fan of Thermal Grizzly but thats a rip off. I use there paste on all my pc stuff. Other then that good review GN team. I just dont like how you keep trying to push Thermal Grizzly. There is always a But and say something better about thermal grizzle after you say something good for thermalright. Not saying your're being biased or lying but its clear to me which one you want people to buy. Shrug
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3 months for shipping? I mean i get you dont want to put down thermal grizzly but come on. Ive been ordering from oversea for years now thousands of items and i normally get things within 2 weeks to 1 months Max. Usually falls somewhere in between. Im from the US. So unless you live somewhere in the boonies i think most get stuff in less then a month in 2022. Its extremely rare to take 2+ or even 3 months. You be a fool to spend all that extra money on thermal grizzly version. Save that extra 30 Bucks. and FWIW im a fan of Thermal Grizzly but thats a rip off. I use there paste on all my pc stuff. Other then that good review GN team. I just dont like how you keep trying to push Thermal Grizzly. There is always a But and say something better about thermal grizzle after you say something good for thermalright. Not saying your're being biased or lying but its clear to me which one you want people to buy. Shrug
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Fokker
I purchased the Thermalright contact frame because I couldn't find a TG frame available for less than 100.
I installed TR frame and followed the same installation method for the TG frame. I added my own tick marks with a paint pen for a visual cue (didn't need to be exact) and used my own bit and driver instead of their included key since that was way too sloppy in the screw head.
I haven't done any benchmarking yet since I'm still building the system, but I did have it mounted with an Artic Freezer 34 Duo and it was hovering at a 28-31 C at idle and gave me zero issues during Windows install, drivers install, and updates, as well as some basic applications. I'll be interested to see how it behaves under significant load.
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I purchased the Thermalright contact frame because I couldn't find a TG frame available for less than 100.
I installed TR frame and followed the same installation method for the TG frame. I added my own tick marks with a paint pen for a visual cue (didn't need to be exact) and used my own bit and driver instead of their included key since that was way too sloppy in the screw head.
I haven't done any benchmarking yet since I'm still building the system, but I did have it mounted with an Artic Freezer 34 Duo and it was hovering at a 28-31 C at idle and gave me zero issues during Windows install, drivers install, and updates, as well as some basic applications. I'll be interested to see how it behaves under significant load.
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all
I bought one of the thermalright ones and it came from Europe. I think I paid 9 bucks. I didn't even realize there was more than one manufacturer. I actually like the fact that it bottoms out and touches the motherboard.... because then you can't over tighten it and bend the pins. Where with the other one you can easily destroy the socket if you did the same thing with both of them and just went until they bottomed out. Which I'm sure someone out there is going to do. I've actually had mine for a couple weeks now and I haven't even installed it cuz I don't want to mess it up. And right now my memory is overclocked and stable at 6,000mhz and it's Dell's hynix Ram that wouldn't even overclock at all past 4,400 in the Alienware.
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I bought one of the thermalright ones and it came from Europe. I think I paid 9 bucks. I didn't even realize there was more than one manufacturer. I actually like the fact that it bottoms out and touches the motherboard.... because then you can't over tighten it and bend the pins. Where with the other one you can easily destroy the socket if you did the same thing with both of them and just went until they bottomed out. Which I'm sure someone out there is going to do. I've actually had mine for a couple weeks now and I haven't even installed it cuz I don't want to mess it up. And right now my memory is overclocked and stable at 6,000mhz and it's Dell's hynix Ram that wouldn't even overclock at all past 4,400 in the Alienware.
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Icedmind
This frame is definitely something I'm looking forward to once I'm set and able to buy the pieces for my new rig. I saw the Thermalright one pop up as I was searching for the TG one on Amazon and the HUGE price difference had me worried a little. Good there's people like you around who do reviews on these gadgets. Then again, considering that the current order amounts to about 2 grand (w/o GPU, yet...), the 30 bucks difference wouldn't do any more harm to my wallet Been building my own rigs for the past 25ish years orso and my dad left me a hefty amount of tools so I guess I can add another RGB fan while picking the Thermalright one
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This frame is definitely something I'm looking forward to once I'm set and able to buy the pieces for my new rig. I saw the Thermalright one pop up as I was searching for the TG one on Amazon and the HUGE price difference had me worried a little. Good there's people like you around who do reviews on these gadgets. Then again, considering that the current order amounts to about 2 grand (w/o GPU, yet...), the 30 bucks difference wouldn't do any more harm to my wallet Been building my own rigs for the past 25ish years orso and my dad left me a hefty amount of tools so I guess I can add another RGB fan while picking the Thermalright one
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Anderson
Chips in the 1970s: Just leave it naked.
Chips in the 1980s: a bit of passive cooling for that overclock.
Chips in the 1990s: this tiny 60mm fan will really get the power out of this.
Chips in the 2000s: I will go extreme with this 120mm radiator.
Chips in the 2010s: 240mm radiator recommended for avg performance.
Chips in the 2020s: with a copper heatsink, liquid metal, a 360mm radiator, and winning the lottery maybe you can get the spec clock frequencies without thermal throttle.
If it continues like that, we may need to use some sort of A/C machine with the cold plate hooked right into the ICs...
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Chips in the 1970s: Just leave it naked.
Chips in the 1980s: a bit of passive cooling for that overclock.
Chips in the 1990s: this tiny 60mm fan will really get the power out of this.
Chips in the 2000s: I will go extreme with this 120mm radiator.
Chips in the 2010s: 240mm radiator recommended for avg performance.
Chips in the 2020s: with a copper heatsink, liquid metal, a 360mm radiator, and winning the lottery maybe you can get the spec clock frequencies without thermal throttle.
If it continues like that, we may need to use some sort of A/C machine with the cold plate hooked right into the ICs...
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KOSTAS
1. It is not a tie, actually the Chinese plates win in every scenario.
2. I love how they pissed on the company selling those for 35USD, which may I remind you are more than 35 Euros.
3. I also love how TG claimed they do quality engineering behind this thing. It legit took an evening to design (maybe less) and 1 hour to do the 3D model and 10 minutes for the CNC to cut the prototype.
4. Don't try to find excuses, the price is just retarded. There are just no excuses. Even 5USD would be absurd.
5. Thanks for not lying in your video just to justify the ultraextreme price.
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1. It is not a tie, actually the Chinese plates win in every scenario.
2. I love how they pissed on the company selling those for 35USD, which may I remind you are more than 35 Euros.
3. I also love how TG claimed they do quality engineering behind this thing. It legit took an evening to design (maybe less) and 1 hour to do the 3D model and 10 minutes for the CNC to cut the prototype.
4. Don't try to find excuses, the price is just retarded. There are just no excuses. Even 5USD would be absurd.
5. Thanks for not lying in your video just to justify the ultraextreme price.
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Kasey
Someone could create a full thermal solution by making a frame like this out of coper (perhaps plated) designed to come to the same height as the IHS on the Intel processors (assuming that is consistent enough) or with a gap suited for applying thermal pads (if ihs height is not sufficiently consistent) and having a cold-plate on the tower/aio base. The first option would require even tighter tolerances, but would conduct heat away better. I'd be surprised if it would be more than a few degrees, but every bit could count in some situations.
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Someone could create a full thermal solution by making a frame like this out of coper (perhaps plated) designed to come to the same height as the IHS on the Intel processors (assuming that is consistent enough) or with a gap suited for applying thermal pads (if ihs height is not sufficiently consistent) and having a cold-plate on the tower/aio base. The first option would require even tighter tolerances, but would conduct heat away better. I'd be surprised if it would be more than a few degrees, but every bit could count in some situations.
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DragDay7
One thing bugs me and I wish Mike would clear this out - isn't coolers pressure enough for CPU to make contact with socket pins without tightening frame screws? If so, could you just tape carefully CPU by its corners to socket without any ILM or frame and see how then contact between cooler and CPU looks like? I remember EK had precision screws for their waterblock to mount it on top of IHS-less CPU and it required you to install it without ILM - there was no frame back then and this worked out great.
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One thing bugs me and I wish Mike would clear this out - isn't coolers pressure enough for CPU to make contact with socket pins without tightening frame screws? If so, could you just tape carefully CPU by its corners to socket without any ILM or frame and see how then contact between cooler and CPU looks like? I remember EK had precision screws for their waterblock to mount it on top of IHS-less CPU and it required you to install it without ILM - there was no frame back then and this worked out great.
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wishus
I still use a Thermalright Ultra Extreme in one machine. and used them for several builds in the mid 2000's for their esoteric designs. But in this case I would probably go with Thermal Grizzly just because I like to support the small shops like this. Perhaps a principal thing. And for a smaller purchase like this its easy to justify. But if we are talking something that is 50 vs 350, and the comparison is really this close, then I guess my principals get left in my wallet.
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I still use a Thermalright Ultra Extreme in one machine. and used them for several builds in the mid 2000's for their esoteric designs. But in this case I would probably go with Thermal Grizzly just because I like to support the small shops like this. Perhaps a principal thing. And for a smaller purchase like this its easy to justify. But if we are talking something that is 50 vs 350, and the comparison is really this close, then I guess my principals get left in my wallet.
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