Round 3: Is Intel Actually Screwed? Ft. Gordon of PC World
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Date: 2022-09-04
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Comments and reviews: 14
Brendan
Having a team mentality towards brands (or politics for that matter) is usually detrimental to your self-interest. Buying based on price and performance forces companies to compete in those arenas. Brand loyalty allows companies to rest on their laurels knowing they'll get your sale even if their product is mediocre. It's like people tie their sense of self-worth to a company who cares nothing about them, and they're so desperate to be right on the internet they'll make ridiculous leaps in logic to prove how smart they are for buying that company's products. I hope no company pulls too far ahead of their competition like Intel did for 10 years, since it allowed them to overprice and underdeliver with no consequences until Ryzen came about. Plus, if all the companies are making a decent amount of cash, they're going to be able and motivated to invest in the R&D and engineers necessary to innovate killer new tech for us all even faster.
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Having a team mentality towards brands (or politics for that matter) is usually detrimental to your self-interest. Buying based on price and performance forces companies to compete in those arenas. Brand loyalty allows companies to rest on their laurels knowing they'll get your sale even if their product is mediocre. It's like people tie their sense of self-worth to a company who cares nothing about them, and they're so desperate to be right on the internet they'll make ridiculous leaps in logic to prove how smart they are for buying that company's products. I hope no company pulls too far ahead of their competition like Intel did for 10 years, since it allowed them to overprice and underdeliver with no consequences until Ryzen came about. Plus, if all the companies are making a decent amount of cash, they're going to be able and motivated to invest in the R&D and engineers necessary to innovate killer new tech for us all even faster.
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Adrameleches
I know the game: AMD is a company, they want your money and thus, they are all the same. Well, that's a fallacy:
A toilet paper company is not your friend, wants your money and, to obtain it, is willing to provide you with the means to keep your ass clean, where a tobacco company, for the same goal of having your money, is willing to poison you, make you an addict and, likely, give you cancer. Big difference isn't it?
AMD wants your cash, it isn't free of syn and isn't your friend either. But I still wait to see then do what Intel did with Principal Technologies, or bribe laptop companies to keep the competency out of the market. And, still, Intel is a kitten, compared with Nvidia who is , however, still better than a tobacco company...
So no, they are all companies, but they are not the same, not until they DO the same things ...
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I know the game: AMD is a company, they want your money and thus, they are all the same. Well, that's a fallacy:
A toilet paper company is not your friend, wants your money and, to obtain it, is willing to provide you with the means to keep your ass clean, where a tobacco company, for the same goal of having your money, is willing to poison you, make you an addict and, likely, give you cancer. Big difference isn't it?
AMD wants your cash, it isn't free of syn and isn't your friend either. But I still wait to see then do what Intel did with Principal Technologies, or bribe laptop companies to keep the competency out of the market. And, still, Intel is a kitten, compared with Nvidia who is , however, still better than a tobacco company...
So no, they are all companies, but they are not the same, not until they DO the same things ...
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Armchair
I think in terms of raw performance in gaming, Intel might still have the upper hand as always. But I think in terms of sustainability and efficiency, AMD will still beat Intel in these disciplines. Especially the first issue is significant to me as a consumer. Being able to stick with one motherboard for at least three release cycles is good, given they don't screw it up like with the first gen, where EPROM size was a factor in the end. The second point might look like a lesser issue, but even 50 watts lower in average consumption means about 50-100 saved per year in energy costs, given the uptime and use in my scenarios.
As for their GPUs, I think with the upcoming generations of AMD and Nvidia GPUs, the best advice I have for Intel is to apply for the UN World Solidarity Fund.
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I think in terms of raw performance in gaming, Intel might still have the upper hand as always. But I think in terms of sustainability and efficiency, AMD will still beat Intel in these disciplines. Especially the first issue is significant to me as a consumer. Being able to stick with one motherboard for at least three release cycles is good, given they don't screw it up like with the first gen, where EPROM size was a factor in the end. The second point might look like a lesser issue, but even 50 watts lower in average consumption means about 50-100 saved per year in energy costs, given the uptime and use in my scenarios.
As for their GPUs, I think with the upcoming generations of AMD and Nvidia GPUs, the best advice I have for Intel is to apply for the UN World Solidarity Fund.
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Kayla
I want amd to destroy intel in the hopes it will humble them and intel will never do a 3% 1000 generational uplift in cpu tech ever again. and if amd does the same intel once did I want intel to destroy them. amd nivida or intel going out of business will be bad for everyone who uses a pre built or custom pc. I want intel to keep going with arc until amd nivida and arc are all equal because it will mean all the three of them can do then is cut prices. all these companies being around equals good things for users. and people need to keep in mind that for every crappy decision or move intel has made amd and nivida have made one of their own too. again these are companies, and they don't care about you or your loyalty, just your money, that is all they care about, full stop end of story.
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I want amd to destroy intel in the hopes it will humble them and intel will never do a 3% 1000 generational uplift in cpu tech ever again. and if amd does the same intel once did I want intel to destroy them. amd nivida or intel going out of business will be bad for everyone who uses a pre built or custom pc. I want intel to keep going with arc until amd nivida and arc are all equal because it will mean all the three of them can do then is cut prices. all these companies being around equals good things for users. and people need to keep in mind that for every crappy decision or move intel has made amd and nivida have made one of their own too. again these are companies, and they don't care about you or your loyalty, just your money, that is all they care about, full stop end of story.
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Ivan
AMD is for now the one from the trio of competitors with the best prospects. They have all the CPU, GPU and the SoC aspects of the product lines in shape to compete in the variety of market segments, already captured the game console box base. Intel still has to prove their GPU designs to a volatile and demanding market, while taking flak from both AMD (x86) and mounting ARM vendors. Nvidia -- still the king of GPU and Compute hill -- will have a hard time to find a place in a overcrowded arena of ARM/RISC-V offerings, not only from the traditional IHVs, but competing against potential clients, since every hyperscaler (and their dog) is toying with in-house custom tailored CPU designs, bypassing the traditional vendors.
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AMD is for now the one from the trio of competitors with the best prospects. They have all the CPU, GPU and the SoC aspects of the product lines in shape to compete in the variety of market segments, already captured the game console box base. Intel still has to prove their GPU designs to a volatile and demanding market, while taking flak from both AMD (x86) and mounting ARM vendors. Nvidia -- still the king of GPU and Compute hill -- will have a hard time to find a place in a overcrowded arena of ARM/RISC-V offerings, not only from the traditional IHVs, but competing against potential clients, since every hyperscaler (and their dog) is toying with in-house custom tailored CPU designs, bypassing the traditional vendors.
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Anton
Intel will keep developing GPU's even when the first generation fails. They're not really after the GPU space, they want the much more lucrative AI/compute space.
They only care about GPU's in as much as they're a stepping stone into compute units.
It's the fastest growing market in the IT space. It's going to be bigger than the CPU market in short order.
They need to be in that space to stop Nvidia from crushing them in the medium to long term.
If they quit GPU's, they may as well quit as a company.
They quit Optane because it showed little long term promise for profit. The AI/compute market has potential for incredible profits. So just because they quit Optane, doesn't mean they're going to quit GPU's.
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Intel will keep developing GPU's even when the first generation fails. They're not really after the GPU space, they want the much more lucrative AI/compute space.
They only care about GPU's in as much as they're a stepping stone into compute units.
It's the fastest growing market in the IT space. It's going to be bigger than the CPU market in short order.
They need to be in that space to stop Nvidia from crushing them in the medium to long term.
If they quit GPU's, they may as well quit as a company.
They quit Optane because it showed little long term promise for profit. The AI/compute market has potential for incredible profits. So just because they quit Optane, doesn't mean they're going to quit GPU's.
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Toun
Honestly I think mainstream media and the gaming community always focuses too much on the Windows side of things. Sure Intel would be screwed if all the GPUs were targetted towards gaming on Windows. But if you look at the state of things on Linux, it's another story.
Intel's official drivers for Linux are open source and of exemplary quality, a far cry from the situation on Windows. The GPUs are priced in line with equivalents, and they support quite a few video / compute HW acceleration. Sure it's nothing ground breaking but it's a solid low end Linux workstation GPU. That's not a huge market, but that might be enough to keep Intel going with it and improve until maybe they catch up. My two cents.
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Honestly I think mainstream media and the gaming community always focuses too much on the Windows side of things. Sure Intel would be screwed if all the GPUs were targetted towards gaming on Windows. But if you look at the state of things on Linux, it's another story.
Intel's official drivers for Linux are open source and of exemplary quality, a far cry from the situation on Windows. The GPUs are priced in line with equivalents, and they support quite a few video / compute HW acceleration. Sure it's nothing ground breaking but it's a solid low end Linux workstation GPU. That's not a huge market, but that might be enough to keep Intel going with it and improve until maybe they catch up. My two cents.
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Youka
Yes. But 2011 I bought 2600K and it still runs all my apps simultaneusly quite good. It was 2011 and now I'm searching update because my motherboard starts to rip apart(sata ports start dying because dying power kills them etc.) In such update scenario it is the current state of competiton of CPU's what matters. Not year from now. Of course I will wait ryzen 7000 series because I'm lucky and it just happens to be right time to pay for speed. If it is 2 times more expensive then it must be 2 times faster, thanks... My pc is for programming, audio and video edit. i.e. Real Time stuff. Current PC's contain incredible things so I guess it is better to be fan boy of PC's generally.
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Yes. But 2011 I bought 2600K and it still runs all my apps simultaneusly quite good. It was 2011 and now I'm searching update because my motherboard starts to rip apart(sata ports start dying because dying power kills them etc.) In such update scenario it is the current state of competiton of CPU's what matters. Not year from now. Of course I will wait ryzen 7000 series because I'm lucky and it just happens to be right time to pay for speed. If it is 2 times more expensive then it must be 2 times faster, thanks... My pc is for programming, audio and video edit. i.e. Real Time stuff. Current PC's contain incredible things so I guess it is better to be fan boy of PC's generally.
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Vens
Steve trying on the dark side? Working title: Two reasonable men delivering classy entertainment seasoned with some real industry knowledge for the internet.
As for the Intel - to make a mistake you have to do something. It's bumpy by design. They are developing new tech, trying to adapt to changing market, projecting future which is tricky. There is ARM influence, AMD trying to push platform synergies (which was Intel's thing 15 years ago, Intel inside?), Nvidia working hard on non-GPU products...
Many internet streams report on the daily action, the tip of an iceberg. Which might flip sooner or later. Companies can't just watch it happen like we do.
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Steve trying on the dark side? Working title: Two reasonable men delivering classy entertainment seasoned with some real industry knowledge for the internet.
As for the Intel - to make a mistake you have to do something. It's bumpy by design. They are developing new tech, trying to adapt to changing market, projecting future which is tricky. There is ARM influence, AMD trying to push platform synergies (which was Intel's thing 15 years ago, Intel inside?), Nvidia working hard on non-GPU products...
Many internet streams report on the daily action, the tip of an iceberg. Which might flip sooner or later. Companies can't just watch it happen like we do.
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f688xt6
I don't think that anyone credible wants or expects Intel to go away but at the same time, there's something to be said about the juggernaut being humbled, in more ways than one. Intel desperately needs to innovate, and more than cranking out higher power products that perform better at the expense of power consumption. Sure, everyone is doing that strategy to a point now, but the one thing they are doing that is innovative and has some potential is ARC. I really hope they don't give up on it, but they do need to be humble and take the hits until they have a better product. Improve the process, and keep going until it IS world class.
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I don't think that anyone credible wants or expects Intel to go away but at the same time, there's something to be said about the juggernaut being humbled, in more ways than one. Intel desperately needs to innovate, and more than cranking out higher power products that perform better at the expense of power consumption. Sure, everyone is doing that strategy to a point now, but the one thing they are doing that is innovative and has some potential is ARC. I really hope they don't give up on it, but they do need to be humble and take the hits until they have a better product. Improve the process, and keep going until it IS world class.
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Alberto
I'm not going to lie I do root for AMD to success and become way bigger than they are now (it's not like there is a third choice, right?) big enough to compete on the same ground with similar resources as Intel do, because if we don't have at least two companies pushing each other all the time we get stagnation and a big bully pushing every small company head into the sand for half a decade.
I would love to see a third company (Not just Apple) making general computing RISC CPUs to push x86 even further to spice things up but I would never want Intel to disappear from the desktop market or to give up on the high end definitely.
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I'm not going to lie I do root for AMD to success and become way bigger than they are now (it's not like there is a third choice, right?) big enough to compete on the same ground with similar resources as Intel do, because if we don't have at least two companies pushing each other all the time we get stagnation and a big bully pushing every small company head into the sand for half a decade.
I would love to see a third company (Not just Apple) making general computing RISC CPUs to push x86 even further to spice things up but I would never want Intel to disappear from the desktop market or to give up on the high end definitely.
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DishDoggie
Gordon: Don't Be a Fan Boy. Just buy the thing. Play the Game. Run the App. Enjoy it. Remember it doesn't represent you and Shut up. Don't Be a Hater be Classy. I mock you cause if half the team wasn't Injured we would of won. Steve: Your team needs to buy some wood make it into a Stir stick and present you with the KING of Shit Stirring award lol You guided this conversation the entire time to get your jollies off lol Well Done!!! Gordon: Don't buy a shirt like Steve has on and be a Sports Fan Consumer of the Company you are buying from. Steve: I fell kind of dirty in my cool shirt right now. LOL sorry I liked it.
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Gordon: Don't Be a Fan Boy. Just buy the thing. Play the Game. Run the App. Enjoy it. Remember it doesn't represent you and Shut up. Don't Be a Hater be Classy. I mock you cause if half the team wasn't Injured we would of won. Steve: Your team needs to buy some wood make it into a Stir stick and present you with the KING of Shit Stirring award lol You guided this conversation the entire time to get your jollies off lol Well Done!!! Gordon: Don't buy a shirt like Steve has on and be a Sports Fan Consumer of the Company you are buying from. Steve: I fell kind of dirty in my cool shirt right now. LOL sorry I liked it.
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Gabriel
Looks like i9-3900k will be faster in full multicore use, like rendering or anything that doesn't rely on real time but slower in real time compute when using the performance cores. Recent leaked benchmarks show about 27% slow single threaded performance and 20% faster multicore using all Performance and little cores. Intel will still be using about 30-40 watts more but will run cooler because the larger dies allow more surface area to move said heat. Just like in GPU's, we might need phase change blocks as heat spreaders directly on the chips. This time because the chips are getting to small to cool
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Looks like i9-3900k will be faster in full multicore use, like rendering or anything that doesn't rely on real time but slower in real time compute when using the performance cores. Recent leaked benchmarks show about 27% slow single threaded performance and 20% faster multicore using all Performance and little cores. Intel will still be using about 30-40 watts more but will run cooler because the larger dies allow more surface area to move said heat. Just like in GPU's, we might need phase change blocks as heat spreaders directly on the chips. This time because the chips are getting to small to cool
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itech
Intel needs to keep the GPU thing going, but aimed at businesses, who are willing to have better graphics on their machines to speed up corporate work, but don't want prima donna racehorses that run hot, use lots of power, need taking apart and have the thermal grease replaced after a year or two considering the 3 year or longer replacement cycles. If intel look for better solutions and keep longevity in mind I don't see them having an issue as long as they hit another market segment while they increase their GPU performance.
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Intel needs to keep the GPU thing going, but aimed at businesses, who are willing to have better graphics on their machines to speed up corporate work, but don't want prima donna racehorses that run hot, use lots of power, need taking apart and have the thermal grease replaced after a year or two considering the 3 year or longer replacement cycles. If intel look for better solutions and keep longevity in mind I don't see them having an issue as long as they hit another market segment while they increase their GPU performance.
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