The Laptop CPU Naming Problem AMD Selling Old Cores with New Names (Discussion)
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I'm more worried that they can't keep this system for long before running into double digits or switching to letters. This will become a mess pretty fast.
Date: 2022-09-07
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Comments and reviews: 14
Freeze
Just to put it into perspective: AMD had a great naming scheme when zen launched. Just a 1000 for the first gen. Then they inexplicably decided to call their mobile parts for 2000, even though they were in fact 1000 series chips. Everyone thought, well this will cause problems. Their Zen+ chips were called 2000 and Zen 2, 3000. Everything is all good for dekstop. Mobile parts were perpetually one generation behind. And to make matters worse, AMD decided that the desktop APU parts should also adopt this same naming scheme.
So now we had a true generational marker for desktop without graphics, and APU's for dekstop AND mobile with confusing, leapfrogging naming. AMD realised this mistake and their solution was to skip 4000 for desktop and jump straight to 5000. Why? Nobody knows. Maybe to line up with RDNA2? Well, that lasted for one whole generation. It's anyones guess now.
We had some straggling zen 2 parts with 4000 names for a while, but with Zen 3 and the arrival of mobile 5000 parts. Everyone finally lined back up. Zen 3 on desktop, and mobile. Even desktop 5000G. 5K across the board. It took them 4 years to correct their terrible naming mistake.
Now? They decided to release a new mobile Zen 3+ architecture called 6000, and they decided to skip it entirely for desktop. We're out of sync yet again. 7000 is the new rage, somehow. Multibillion dollar company ladies and gentlemen. With no shred of naming competence. Do not get me started on their GPU division. My brother in christ.
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Just to put it into perspective: AMD had a great naming scheme when zen launched. Just a 1000 for the first gen. Then they inexplicably decided to call their mobile parts for 2000, even though they were in fact 1000 series chips. Everyone thought, well this will cause problems. Their Zen+ chips were called 2000 and Zen 2, 3000. Everything is all good for dekstop. Mobile parts were perpetually one generation behind. And to make matters worse, AMD decided that the desktop APU parts should also adopt this same naming scheme.
So now we had a true generational marker for desktop without graphics, and APU's for dekstop AND mobile with confusing, leapfrogging naming. AMD realised this mistake and their solution was to skip 4000 for desktop and jump straight to 5000. Why? Nobody knows. Maybe to line up with RDNA2? Well, that lasted for one whole generation. It's anyones guess now.
We had some straggling zen 2 parts with 4000 names for a while, but with Zen 3 and the arrival of mobile 5000 parts. Everyone finally lined back up. Zen 3 on desktop, and mobile. Even desktop 5000G. 5K across the board. It took them 4 years to correct their terrible naming mistake.
Now? They decided to release a new mobile Zen 3+ architecture called 6000, and they decided to skip it entirely for desktop. We're out of sync yet again. 7000 is the new rage, somehow. Multibillion dollar company ladies and gentlemen. With no shred of naming competence. Do not get me started on their GPU division. My brother in christ.
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Rados aw
Good idea, but order is wired? Power is defined by ZEN, so users expect, as it was before, higher is better, and it technically doesn't have to be like that because 7950U will be way stronger than 7910U
people will not understand why 8910hs is so much slower than 7950hs when number is higher, it will be a slow death of trust they made of themselves and mentioned blue collars will sell 8910hs as better because its higher number obviously.....
IMHO they should already say that it starts with zen , then they have 2 digits in year, and it starts with 07 for historic reasons, then 30/35/50/55/70/75/90/95 as higher and lower models, then power level HX/HS or whatever.
it feels like they really had a good idea, at a glance you have all the infos you might need about cpu, but marketing made it into a monstrosity that will not be easy to read for average joe.
there is also no word about node used, so I assume 7nm zen1 part, we will have no idea that something was ported to another node under the hood, especially that io is not here as well, so wired combos of 5nm node, but 14 nm IO can technically happen and its hidden from us.
20:00 I am not sure if wallmart dont do it, but Polish wallmart have on displays still HP laptops with 4'th gen intel, sold as NEW for the same price as they were when they were released 10 or so years ago.
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Good idea, but order is wired? Power is defined by ZEN, so users expect, as it was before, higher is better, and it technically doesn't have to be like that because 7950U will be way stronger than 7910U
people will not understand why 8910hs is so much slower than 7950hs when number is higher, it will be a slow death of trust they made of themselves and mentioned blue collars will sell 8910hs as better because its higher number obviously.....
IMHO they should already say that it starts with zen , then they have 2 digits in year, and it starts with 07 for historic reasons, then 30/35/50/55/70/75/90/95 as higher and lower models, then power level HX/HS or whatever.
it feels like they really had a good idea, at a glance you have all the infos you might need about cpu, but marketing made it into a monstrosity that will not be easy to read for average joe.
there is also no word about node used, so I assume 7nm zen1 part, we will have no idea that something was ported to another node under the hood, especially that io is not here as well, so wired combos of 5nm node, but 14 nm IO can technically happen and its hidden from us.
20:00 I am not sure if wallmart dont do it, but Polish wallmart have on displays still HP laptops with 4'th gen intel, sold as NEW for the same price as they were when they were released 10 or so years ago.
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Never
If I am going to be pessimistic, this is just a marketing stuff as both of them point out. But I kinda see the pattern and some logic behind it.
The first number was just a sum of each digit in each year.
2+0+2+3 = 7
2+0+2+4 = 8
... and so on.
The year is included perhaps just to makes the old seems like new. An old stuff, being produced with current technology.
The second digit most likely serve to split the performance so AMD has more flexibility with pricing.
Ryzen 3 (3&4)
Ryzen 5(5&6)
Ryzen 7 (7&8)
Ryzen 9 (9)
Either they add ryzen 4, 6, and 8 categorization or just half heartedly split the numbering as they did.
The third digit is very starighforward. The architecture of the processor.
Zen 1
Zen 2
Zen 3
Zen 4
... and so on
The fourth digit, as Steve mention, is just segmentation.
The fifth which uses letter is just the wattage.
How it is setup, the first number being bigger play into tricking the mass consumer they are buying something new that is better. Which is very sneaky from AMD.
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If I am going to be pessimistic, this is just a marketing stuff as both of them point out. But I kinda see the pattern and some logic behind it.
The first number was just a sum of each digit in each year.
2+0+2+3 = 7
2+0+2+4 = 8
... and so on.
The year is included perhaps just to makes the old seems like new. An old stuff, being produced with current technology.
The second digit most likely serve to split the performance so AMD has more flexibility with pricing.
Ryzen 3 (3&4)
Ryzen 5(5&6)
Ryzen 7 (7&8)
Ryzen 9 (9)
Either they add ryzen 4, 6, and 8 categorization or just half heartedly split the numbering as they did.
The third digit is very starighforward. The architecture of the processor.
Zen 1
Zen 2
Zen 3
Zen 4
... and so on
The fourth digit, as Steve mention, is just segmentation.
The fifth which uses letter is just the wattage.
How it is setup, the first number being bigger play into tricking the mass consumer they are buying something new that is better. Which is very sneaky from AMD.
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Dan
I would have no problems with them selling older parts, as long as they were represented as such in the name. I am highly annoyed that I bought two 5700U laptops for my parents thinking they were Zen3 and finding out later they are Zen2. I would have no problem with AMD selling, for example, a Ryzen 2450G as a new part in 2022 that is just a Zen1 APU with some mildly increased compatibility with memory and slightly higher speeds than the old 2400G, for, say, 60. I WOULD have issues if AMD were to sell such a chip as a Ryzen 7150G, even if it is the same 60 price point. Same goes for Intel, or anyone else.
Older designs are still viable for years after the new designs come out, and can be made cheaper, as the design costs are covered after a time and the manufacturing process has matured to reduce defects, so why not make use of them? However, don't misrepresent them as newer designs.
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I would have no problems with them selling older parts, as long as they were represented as such in the name. I am highly annoyed that I bought two 5700U laptops for my parents thinking they were Zen3 and finding out later they are Zen2. I would have no problem with AMD selling, for example, a Ryzen 2450G as a new part in 2022 that is just a Zen1 APU with some mildly increased compatibility with memory and slightly higher speeds than the old 2400G, for, say, 60. I WOULD have issues if AMD were to sell such a chip as a Ryzen 7150G, even if it is the same 60 price point. Same goes for Intel, or anyone else.
Older designs are still viable for years after the new designs come out, and can be made cheaper, as the design costs are covered after a time and the manufacturing process has matured to reduce defects, so why not make use of them? However, don't misrepresent them as newer designs.
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Meoknet
I don't see the big issue. There's no major difference, it just denotes the architecture in the 3rd number. Just about everything else is the same.
On Desktop, we see a 7600X and 7500X and we know those are 7000 series Ryzen 5 chips, just by the numbers.
On mobile, we see a 7640U and a 7630U, it's still clearly a 7000 series Ryzen 5, but now we know the 7640U has Zen4 cores and the 7630U has Zen3 cores.
The suffixes (U, HX etc) are nothing new. Same thing we have now.
Now if we see a 7640U and a 7645U, we know that the 45 is faster than the 40, like the Radeon numbering. So it really isn't as difficult as people are making it out to be.
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I don't see the big issue. There's no major difference, it just denotes the architecture in the 3rd number. Just about everything else is the same.
On Desktop, we see a 7600X and 7500X and we know those are 7000 series Ryzen 5 chips, just by the numbers.
On mobile, we see a 7640U and a 7630U, it's still clearly a 7000 series Ryzen 5, but now we know the 7640U has Zen4 cores and the 7630U has Zen3 cores.
The suffixes (U, HX etc) are nothing new. Same thing we have now.
Now if we see a 7640U and a 7645U, we know that the 45 is faster than the 40, like the Radeon numbering. So it really isn't as difficult as people are making it out to be.
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chris
Hi . . . You presented the a view which is TOO SIMPLE.
With some commercial software products I delt withthere - there were software version line-ups . . .
That is a range of software applications which are compatible with each other.
You have just described the a few aspects of the Hardware Line-Ups BUT they also need to be compatible with Software Line-Ups
Obviously the Line-up terminology is a taboo subject . . . it is all ment to be easy and simple and will just work . . . . but you do lots of testing
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Hi . . . You presented the a view which is TOO SIMPLE.
With some commercial software products I delt withthere - there were software version line-ups . . .
That is a range of software applications which are compatible with each other.
You have just described the a few aspects of the Hardware Line-Ups BUT they also need to be compatible with Software Line-Ups
Obviously the Line-up terminology is a taboo subject . . . it is all ment to be easy and simple and will just work . . . . but you do lots of testing
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Dan
This is intentionally deceptive and underhanded practice by AMD.
They started this with the laptop space, 5700U being Zen 2 alongside 5800U which is Zen 3. Now they are rebranding 3100/3500 to 4100/4500. This will trick many consumers into buying what they think is a modern CPU, but getting old tech. Most won't notice, which is what they count on. You people should be ashamed of yourselves giving AMD a pass on this type of practice for so long.
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This is intentionally deceptive and underhanded practice by AMD.
They started this with the laptop space, 5700U being Zen 2 alongside 5800U which is Zen 3. Now they are rebranding 3100/3500 to 4100/4500. This will trick many consumers into buying what they think is a modern CPU, but getting old tech. Most won't notice, which is what they count on. You people should be ashamed of yourselves giving AMD a pass on this type of practice for so long.
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Doug
Intel's variant of this wheel would require to be shipped on a pallet, and operated by large levers. Someone with enough time on their hands could surely make something like this for Intel, but it would probably take long enough that new products would launch prior to completion, thus an endless cycle of revisions needed to Intel's wheel would be required and it would never come to actual fruition with current products represented.
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Intel's variant of this wheel would require to be shipped on a pallet, and operated by large levers. Someone with enough time on their hands could surely make something like this for Intel, but it would probably take long enough that new products would launch prior to completion, thus an endless cycle of revisions needed to Intel's wheel would be required and it would never come to actual fruition with current products represented.
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rjcadena91
Hey Steve/Team! A group of builders are trying to get in contact with you about Newegg bait and switching us across 4 different combo deals . They knowingly priced combos incorrectly, proceeded to ship one part of the combo without notifying anyone! They ve been doing this for some time and always only offer a nominal discount on that part as opposed to making things right. Could you take a look or reach out?
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Hey Steve/Team! A group of builders are trying to get in contact with you about Newegg bait and switching us across 4 different combo deals . They knowingly priced combos incorrectly, proceeded to ship one part of the combo without notifying anyone! They ve been doing this for some time and always only offer a nominal discount on that part as opposed to making things right. Could you take a look or reach out?
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JJ
So the root problem is that the model name looks like a number, and we have learned in school that the leftmost number is the most important digit in a number. However it's debatable what the most significant digit should be (year vs zen core vs the other sliders), and it feels disingenuous to put the year instead of some performance metric in the most significant spot. Higher number is not always better.
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So the root problem is that the model name looks like a number, and we have learned in school that the leftmost number is the most important digit in a number. However it's debatable what the most significant digit should be (year vs zen core vs the other sliders), and it feels disingenuous to put the year instead of some performance metric in the most significant spot. Higher number is not always better.
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Peanut
You guys are so clueless.
Intel and AMD have duked it out for decades, whether it's first to cross the Ghz barrier, first with SMT, 64bit, instruction sets or price barriers.
Intel have winning on the bad naming front for a while, this decoder/break-brain wheel is AMD setting a new standard,
Yes, being the first to do a bad thing is a good thing #becauseReasonsAndStuffAndThings!
/s
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You guys are so clueless.
Intel and AMD have duked it out for decades, whether it's first to cross the Ghz barrier, first with SMT, 64bit, instruction sets or price barriers.
Intel have winning on the bad naming front for a while, this decoder/break-brain wheel is AMD setting a new standard,
Yes, being the first to do a bad thing is a good thing #becauseReasonsAndStuffAndThings!
/s
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Shack
My guess would be that any older variants that are 'relaunched' would have something to distinguish them from the original launch like more cache or higher frequencies. I also wouldn't expect them to combine components from widely disparate eras. Just a wheel that includes the whole stack rather than indicating new will be launched for them all.
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My guess would be that any older variants that are 'relaunched' would have something to distinguish them from the original launch like more cache or higher frequencies. I also wouldn't expect them to combine components from widely disparate eras. Just a wheel that includes the whole stack rather than indicating new will be launched for them all.
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G33RsofDeath
The only excuse for this naming setup for old cores is if they're made on a new node as years go forward. So they're somewhat different in power characteristics if not performance. It could matter. But selling zen 1 cores just shouldn't make any economical sense at some point so this naming shouldn't be a real solution to any real problem.
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The only excuse for this naming setup for old cores is if they're made on a new node as years go forward. So they're somewhat different in power characteristics if not performance. It could matter. But selling zen 1 cores just shouldn't make any economical sense at some point so this naming shouldn't be a real solution to any real problem.
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AdaaDK
These days, product names and specs of most things are sadly not made to indform consumers, but made to confuse consumers. Its retarded that it has to be such a way. Its not logical cept maybe from a sketchy/bad intended companys perspektive(and mind u all the big 3 hardware manifactures does this, so i am not just after AMD on this).
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These days, product names and specs of most things are sadly not made to indform consumers, but made to confuse consumers. Its retarded that it has to be such a way. Its not logical cept maybe from a sketchy/bad intended companys perspektive(and mind u all the big 3 hardware manifactures does this, so i am not just after AMD on this).
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