HW News - Ultra-Small Intel Arc GPU, 12V-2x6 Connector, More AM4 CPUs, 4060 Ti 16GB
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Date: 2023-07-13
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Comments and reviews: 19
OdiumDei2
If AMD releases a new 300-400 mid-range GPU it will get the same hatred as the 4060/TI because i think it would be completely impossible for AMD to compete with the price/performance of the 6700XT on a current gen GPU.
For me personally power efficiency is by FAR the most important factor on a low/mid-range GPU...which the 4060/TI is actually very good at (but overpriced), AMD is okish at but does not offer a mid-range GPU and Intel Arc is currently the worst. If Intel manages a GPU that can compete with NVIDIA in power efficiency i would be more than willing to go Intel for a new GPU.
For reference: Strictly looking at 1080p (because that's what i am interested in) the 4060TI is slightly faster than a 6700XT, moderatly faster when using RT - but it uses 150 watts instead of the 6700XT's 220 - that's almost a 30% reduction in power consumption for the same or better performance....which makes the 6700XT for me personally a complete non-starter.
If i bought a 6700XT instead of a 4060TI right now i would end up paying MORE for it because of the electricity cost...while getting lower performance, older features and more heat pumped into my room. That's not a good deal. Not in any way you can look at it....which is why i still think the 4060TI is getting too much hatred in general. The competition is just too bad to bash the 4060TI so much, i think.
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If AMD releases a new 300-400 mid-range GPU it will get the same hatred as the 4060/TI because i think it would be completely impossible for AMD to compete with the price/performance of the 6700XT on a current gen GPU.
For me personally power efficiency is by FAR the most important factor on a low/mid-range GPU...which the 4060/TI is actually very good at (but overpriced), AMD is okish at but does not offer a mid-range GPU and Intel Arc is currently the worst. If Intel manages a GPU that can compete with NVIDIA in power efficiency i would be more than willing to go Intel for a new GPU.
For reference: Strictly looking at 1080p (because that's what i am interested in) the 4060TI is slightly faster than a 6700XT, moderatly faster when using RT - but it uses 150 watts instead of the 6700XT's 220 - that's almost a 30% reduction in power consumption for the same or better performance....which makes the 6700XT for me personally a complete non-starter.
If i bought a 6700XT instead of a 4060TI right now i would end up paying MORE for it because of the electricity cost...while getting lower performance, older features and more heat pumped into my room. That's not a good deal. Not in any way you can look at it....which is why i still think the 4060TI is getting too much hatred in general. The competition is just too bad to bash the 4060TI so much, i think.
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Guillaume
Apparently not everything's perfect with the Jsaux kit to go full transparent shell on the Deck, the shell itself is very good but the tools suck, the tool to slide under the screen is made of metal which makes not scratching the screen impossible, the plunger is close to useless because of how bad it is and also their video was made using a Deck that's been disassembled several times and someone doing it for the 1st time will have a pretty distinct experience because many steps will be much harder to reproduce on a never opened up before Deck.
I think it was both The Phawx and Taki Udon who reviewed it and made those critics. The Phawx even suggests buying a replacement screen with the shell it makes the whole process go from nightmarish to pretty easy (for an additional cost, obviously but if you consider buying a new set of tools to limit the risks of breaking the screen, getting a new screen right away and stick with the crap tools might be the best solution for most people).
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Apparently not everything's perfect with the Jsaux kit to go full transparent shell on the Deck, the shell itself is very good but the tools suck, the tool to slide under the screen is made of metal which makes not scratching the screen impossible, the plunger is close to useless because of how bad it is and also their video was made using a Deck that's been disassembled several times and someone doing it for the 1st time will have a pretty distinct experience because many steps will be much harder to reproduce on a never opened up before Deck.
I think it was both The Phawx and Taki Udon who reviewed it and made those critics. The Phawx even suggests buying a replacement screen with the shell it makes the whole process go from nightmarish to pretty easy (for an additional cost, obviously but if you consider buying a new set of tools to limit the risks of breaking the screen, getting a new screen right away and stick with the crap tools might be the best solution for most people).
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imglidinhere
I actually JUST applied the Carbonaut pad to my laptop's CPU and GPU! :D
The impressive thing about the pad is that, like what Bob Of All Trades showed some years ago (go watch his more in-depth video for more info), while it isn't quite as good as the best pastes on the market, the core-to-core differential in temperatures has been insanely close. Most temperatures before on the laptop I run (Eluktronics MAX-17) had anywhere between a 10C to 15C degree difference between the absolute hottest and coldest cores. Now it's merely 2-3C difference. So while it runs hotter across the whole chip, it's still an upgrade.
Also I never have to repaste ever again, if the company's claims are to be believed. :) Just gotta be careful since it IS electrically conductive, so you have to cut the pad to fit the size of the die.
Better option than liquid metal, imo. Less stressful, easier to work with and never have to worry about it potentially 'leaking'.
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I actually JUST applied the Carbonaut pad to my laptop's CPU and GPU! :D
The impressive thing about the pad is that, like what Bob Of All Trades showed some years ago (go watch his more in-depth video for more info), while it isn't quite as good as the best pastes on the market, the core-to-core differential in temperatures has been insanely close. Most temperatures before on the laptop I run (Eluktronics MAX-17) had anywhere between a 10C to 15C degree difference between the absolute hottest and coldest cores. Now it's merely 2-3C difference. So while it runs hotter across the whole chip, it's still an upgrade.
Also I never have to repaste ever again, if the company's claims are to be believed. :) Just gotta be careful since it IS electrically conductive, so you have to cut the pad to fit the size of the die.
Better option than liquid metal, imo. Less stressful, easier to work with and never have to worry about it potentially 'leaking'.
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Xaytana
I really want to see what 8BitDo has done with the NeoGeo DStick. The DStick is something I've wanted to see modernized for a very long time, just because it does miniaturize a proper arcade stick, rather than have the pivoted DPad where designs can be entirely hit or miss. There's been some talk within the fighting game community that a DStick is the golden middle ground for people who want a gamepad but usually play on a full arcade stick, given how it feels and operates compared to the typical DPad, which again can easily become problematic given how inconsistent DPad designs and implementations are. Admittedly the original DStick wasn't perfect, but it also never really saw incremental improvements, so I'm hoping that 8BD has done something to make it bulletproof, and hopefully someone does a proper teardown and analysis of the modernized design, especially since they've supposedly put so much work into recreating it.
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I really want to see what 8BitDo has done with the NeoGeo DStick. The DStick is something I've wanted to see modernized for a very long time, just because it does miniaturize a proper arcade stick, rather than have the pivoted DPad where designs can be entirely hit or miss. There's been some talk within the fighting game community that a DStick is the golden middle ground for people who want a gamepad but usually play on a full arcade stick, given how it feels and operates compared to the typical DPad, which again can easily become problematic given how inconsistent DPad designs and implementations are. Admittedly the original DStick wasn't perfect, but it also never really saw incremental improvements, so I'm hoping that 8BD has done something to make it bulletproof, and hopefully someone does a proper teardown and analysis of the modernized design, especially since they've supposedly put so much work into recreating it.
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Zachariah
I have the 8bitdo ultimate controller with the hall effect sticks and I have their m30 2.4 sega controller, the lack of support for the ultimate to be used in rewasd means I can't use the analog triggers and the gyro in the controller at the same time, and the m30 8bitdo doesn't even make software for that and two of the buttons are binded to the same out put so just never need to hit select and remember the right bumper Isreal as the left trigger and the right bumper and trigger are face buttons, also mine didn't have a spike under the dpad on my m30 meaning every now and again it click left when I'm clicking right, its also read as a joystick and not all the directions are perfectly lined up so if I push down in the center of the dpad my character or whatever would be slowly moving up and to the right, still might buy the neo geo controller, definitely not in an abusive relationship
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I have the 8bitdo ultimate controller with the hall effect sticks and I have their m30 2.4 sega controller, the lack of support for the ultimate to be used in rewasd means I can't use the analog triggers and the gyro in the controller at the same time, and the m30 8bitdo doesn't even make software for that and two of the buttons are binded to the same out put so just never need to hit select and remember the right bumper Isreal as the left trigger and the right bumper and trigger are face buttons, also mine didn't have a spike under the dpad on my m30 meaning every now and again it click left when I'm clicking right, its also read as a joystick and not all the directions are perfectly lined up so if I push down in the center of the dpad my character or whatever would be slowly moving up and to the right, still might buy the neo geo controller, definitely not in an abusive relationship
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Canalp
I speculate but after all these months it looks like AMD shot themselves on the foot with the chiplet design. With the yields that TSMC is having it looks like it is more feasible to produce the 7900 dies as opposed to the lower stack models. And considering that they are somewhat price and performance competitive with the 4080 and 4090 (kind of, stretching it a lot) with their products and the customers bit the head off of nVidia for their lower stack model pricing it is somewhat understandable from a devils advocate point of view why AMD is shy about getting out their 7800 and 7700 models as those models will probably will not be well received either as AMD like all companies will want to make money hand over fist from them.
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I speculate but after all these months it looks like AMD shot themselves on the foot with the chiplet design. With the yields that TSMC is having it looks like it is more feasible to produce the 7900 dies as opposed to the lower stack models. And considering that they are somewhat price and performance competitive with the 4080 and 4090 (kind of, stretching it a lot) with their products and the customers bit the head off of nVidia for their lower stack model pricing it is somewhat understandable from a devils advocate point of view why AMD is shy about getting out their 7800 and 7700 models as those models will probably will not be well received either as AMD like all companies will want to make money hand over fist from them.
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Miles
I'm on the fence with this M.2 thing. It's cool, no doubt. But if it is an ATX board there is a good chance those lanes get bifurcated down to another x16 slot (the usual x8x8), in which case I'm not sure if there is any gain. However if its a Z or X series board with more lanes from the PCH that may not be true. But then the question is there still vestigal x8 x8 bifurcation in the BIOS so this works?
You are still leaving the last x4 hanging (because x8x4x4 bifurcation really is too much to expect), but it is something.
I of course would love to see a setup where that M.2 slot is connected via breakout to another video card .
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I'm on the fence with this M.2 thing. It's cool, no doubt. But if it is an ATX board there is a good chance those lanes get bifurcated down to another x16 slot (the usual x8x8), in which case I'm not sure if there is any gain. However if its a Z or X series board with more lanes from the PCH that may not be true. But then the question is there still vestigal x8 x8 bifurcation in the BIOS so this works?
You are still leaving the last x4 hanging (because x8x4x4 bifurcation really is too much to expect), but it is something.
I of course would love to see a setup where that M.2 slot is connected via breakout to another video card .
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Altirix
one thing ive kinda wondered with am4 is if they could in theory release zen4 on am4 once it was no longer bleeding edge. i doubt they ever would but unless theres signifcant changes to the ccx protocol it in theory might be possible. not everyone needs ddr5, not everyone needs the bleeding edge. i think theres many people, especially with current economic situations, that would upgrade an existing am4 system rather than build, essentially an new system. its a hope, am4 motherboards hit a price i doubt any am5 board will, multi layer pcbs with good signal properties aint cheap. fantastic platform for a homelab
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one thing ive kinda wondered with am4 is if they could in theory release zen4 on am4 once it was no longer bleeding edge. i doubt they ever would but unless theres signifcant changes to the ccx protocol it in theory might be possible. not everyone needs ddr5, not everyone needs the bleeding edge. i think theres many people, especially with current economic situations, that would upgrade an existing am4 system rather than build, essentially an new system. its a hope, am4 motherboards hit a price i doubt any am5 board will, multi layer pcbs with good signal properties aint cheap. fantastic platform for a homelab
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Ken
GN getting on PCIE SIG when?
On putting M.2 drives on GPU cards, there are a bunch of reasons it could be a good idea even for the ones that aren't just wired for x8. First it is currently impossible, short of synthetic tests, to saturate a gen 4 x16 link to any GPU. Second if Nvidia and AMD are serious about Direct Storage then putting storage on the actual graphics cards would cut a bunch of latency out of the process (which would have its own complexities as it would change how games were stored and installed but that is certainly something that can be solved).
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GN getting on PCIE SIG when?
On putting M.2 drives on GPU cards, there are a bunch of reasons it could be a good idea even for the ones that aren't just wired for x8. First it is currently impossible, short of synthetic tests, to saturate a gen 4 x16 link to any GPU. Second if Nvidia and AMD are serious about Direct Storage then putting storage on the actual graphics cards would cut a bunch of latency out of the process (which would have its own complexities as it would change how games were stored and installed but that is certainly something that can be solved).
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Maya
12VHPWR still seems like such a complete waste of energy and materials. Most people will be using their existing ATX v2.x PSUs for the coming years anyway (like the Seasonic 660p in my main rig), so anything that requires something other than PCIe power connectors for the GPU are just a complete hassle. All 12HPWR and now 12V-2x6 (WTH, did the USB-IF help here?) just seem to add a more fragile and fire-prone connector for no good reason.
If a GPU uses more power than two PCIe connectors can provide, I don't want it anyway.
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12VHPWR still seems like such a complete waste of energy and materials. Most people will be using their existing ATX v2.x PSUs for the coming years anyway (like the Seasonic 660p in my main rig), so anything that requires something other than PCIe power connectors for the GPU are just a complete hassle. All 12HPWR and now 12V-2x6 (WTH, did the USB-IF help here?) just seem to add a more fragile and fire-prone connector for no good reason.
If a GPU uses more power than two PCIe connectors can provide, I don't want it anyway.
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Victor
Regarding the gpu with a built in NVMe drive: this is the main reason I was hoping that the 40 series would be PCIe 5.0. We don t need 16 PCIe 5.0 lanes, but if these GPU s were PCIe 5.0, the cards could use eight 5.0 lanes which are basically as fast as sixteen 4.0 lanes, which means we have more lanes for NVMe drives or whatnot. Most motherboards (intel boards at least, not sure about AMD) can t use a PCIe 5.0 NVMe drive without cutting into the lanes available for the gpu, which is just dumb.
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Regarding the gpu with a built in NVMe drive: this is the main reason I was hoping that the 40 series would be PCIe 5.0. We don t need 16 PCIe 5.0 lanes, but if these GPU s were PCIe 5.0, the cards could use eight 5.0 lanes which are basically as fast as sixteen 4.0 lanes, which means we have more lanes for NVMe drives or whatnot. Most motherboards (intel boards at least, not sure about AMD) can t use a PCIe 5.0 NVMe drive without cutting into the lanes available for the gpu, which is just dumb.
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Haruka
This generation of PC feels too buggy, first DDR5 issues (that apparently it's still being an issue), GPU staggering and being still expensive AF, AM5 apparently having the same issue on all motherboards and Nvidia still wanting to use a cable that nobody wants and it wasn't prepared to be launched.
And there's me wanting to finally retire my i7-3770 and RX-570. Hopefully, intel still has some reputation left and have their CPUs as reliable as they always has been.
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This generation of PC feels too buggy, first DDR5 issues (that apparently it's still being an issue), GPU staggering and being still expensive AF, AM5 apparently having the same issue on all motherboards and Nvidia still wanting to use a cable that nobody wants and it wasn't prepared to be launched.
And there's me wanting to finally retire my i7-3770 and RX-570. Hopefully, intel still has some reputation left and have their CPUs as reliable as they always has been.
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Mr.
I want to see someone disable 2 cores on the 5600X3D and then do gaming benchmarks. I say this because I think that 96MB of 3D cache means way more to performance than another two cores do. Remember the 5600X3D basically scores the same in gaming benchmarks as the 5800X3D. I want to see exactly how far core count can be cut for gamers, eliminating the tendency towards more cores when conventional die space would be better spent on more cache.
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I want to see someone disable 2 cores on the 5600X3D and then do gaming benchmarks. I say this because I think that 96MB of 3D cache means way more to performance than another two cores do. Remember the 5600X3D basically scores the same in gaming benchmarks as the 5800X3D. I want to see exactly how far core count can be cut for gamers, eliminating the tendency towards more cores when conventional die space would be better spent on more cache.
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Lucas
AMD has been quite happy surfing the wake generated by Nvidia.
Whatever Nvidia makes, AMD follows by making something a little worse for a little cheaper. It's guaranteed to sell their stuff when people take them as the more bang for buck option. AMD had so many chances to turn the market to themselves but its not their interest. Their RX7600 announcement made this quite clear. Hope Intel does better than this.
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AMD has been quite happy surfing the wake generated by Nvidia.
Whatever Nvidia makes, AMD follows by making something a little worse for a little cheaper. It's guaranteed to sell their stuff when people take them as the more bang for buck option. AMD had so many chances to turn the market to themselves but its not their interest. Their RX7600 announcement made this quite clear. Hope Intel does better than this.
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Tweedle
With the 7500F you can tell it WILL (at first) be a CHINA ONLY Launch by the laser etched 'MADE IN CHINA' on the IHS in the pic from Harukazi - If it was intended for ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET it would say 'DIFFUSED IN TAIWAN MADE IN MALAYSIA
C'mon guys... after THIS LONG you should know how SUPER INSECURE the CCP is about this stuff LOL
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With the 7500F you can tell it WILL (at first) be a CHINA ONLY Launch by the laser etched 'MADE IN CHINA' on the IHS in the pic from Harukazi - If it was intended for ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET it would say 'DIFFUSED IN TAIWAN MADE IN MALAYSIA
C'mon guys... after THIS LONG you should know how SUPER INSECURE the CCP is about this stuff LOL
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MidnightInRome
In regards to the LP A380: It will at least compete.. I don't think there's anything better than the RX 6400 for most low profile solutions to avoid hassle. That said, more options are ALWAYS better. The space needs competition and maybe companies will see a market (better LP GPUs please??) there if they sell a good amount.
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In regards to the LP A380: It will at least compete.. I don't think there's anything better than the RX 6400 for most low profile solutions to avoid hassle. That said, more options are ALWAYS better. The space needs competition and maybe companies will see a market (better LP GPUs please??) there if they sell a good amount.
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Felix
Looks like the 4060 Ti is for people who want to run AI tasks at home. AI researchers/students, hobbyists, etc. VRAM is king for them and they need CUDA so AMD is not an option, making the 4060 Ti a pretty attractive option (sadly).
I suspect blender users will also be looking at this card for a good value buy .
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Looks like the 4060 Ti is for people who want to run AI tasks at home. AI researchers/students, hobbyists, etc. VRAM is king for them and they need CUDA so AMD is not an option, making the 4060 Ti a pretty attractive option (sadly).
I suspect blender users will also be looking at this card for a good value buy .
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DelticEngine
I am thrilled to hear that the POS 12VHPWER is no more but has been massively improved into 12V-2x6 and yet is still the same POS GPU power solution it always was. Talk about the emperors new clothes! It never was and still isn't fit for purpose. I'm just glad it is still possible to avoid this nonsense.
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I am thrilled to hear that the POS 12VHPWER is no more but has been massively improved into 12V-2x6 and yet is still the same POS GPU power solution it always was. Talk about the emperors new clothes! It never was and still isn't fit for purpose. I'm just glad it is still possible to avoid this nonsense.
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Sven
Interesting, so to access the extra lanes for an M.2 port, do they need to an PCIe splitter chip for that? I recently looked into using my second 16x PCIe slot for multiple NVMes, but my board doesn't do bifurcation on that one, and the price increase of PCIe cards with built-in splitters is pretty steep.
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Interesting, so to access the extra lanes for an M.2 port, do they need to an PCIe splitter chip for that? I recently looked into using my second 16x PCIe slot for multiple NVMes, but my board doesn't do bifurcation on that one, and the price increase of PCIe cards with built-in splitters is pretty steep.
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