The Linux Community Is Not Your -Safe Space- DistroTube
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Date: 2022-03-30
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Comments and reviews: 10
Stefano
That's what happens when one uses inflammatory and click-baity titles, be it an article, a video or whatever. Such titles are emotionally charged (that is why they attract the reader in the first place). The only 'hate speech' is in the use of such titles. Try that in real life and see how it goes: 'Hey Mark! I think you should just die!' It is also rather weird (unless you aim for media buzz) to use these tactics and even talk about things that you admit you do not care about. Given the things we don't care about and/or don't like are many more than the ones we care for, it'd be rather funny for us to spend so much time and effort on the former.....
There is nothing about toxicity, safe spaces, etc. In fact, even this video title and thumbnail are misleading. Maybe it's time for creators to treat their users as mature, intelligent adults and not like moody pre-teens and care more about values than metrics. One sure gets the buzz, the views etc. but if one stirs up too much of a storm, metrics can bite him back and see his subs go down.
I don't use Mint either, I use Antergos (yeah... I know, right?!) but I've installed Mint numerous times for some of my clients and it was a good match. It's a rather good distro but regardless, maybe writing things like 'Scientific Linux & Antergos are shutting down. Should Linux Mint be concerned/do the same?' or 'Do we still need Linux Mint?' (this one is spicier) or -Should the LM devs close the project and focus on Cinnamon instead?-, opening up an honest and informed discussion would have made marketers sad but readers much happier and less 'on the defensive'.
It's not a matter of expressing or not expressing opinions but rather on HOW you do that and how many facts back those opinions up.
Peace!
reply
That's what happens when one uses inflammatory and click-baity titles, be it an article, a video or whatever. Such titles are emotionally charged (that is why they attract the reader in the first place). The only 'hate speech' is in the use of such titles. Try that in real life and see how it goes: 'Hey Mark! I think you should just die!' It is also rather weird (unless you aim for media buzz) to use these tactics and even talk about things that you admit you do not care about. Given the things we don't care about and/or don't like are many more than the ones we care for, it'd be rather funny for us to spend so much time and effort on the former.....
There is nothing about toxicity, safe spaces, etc. In fact, even this video title and thumbnail are misleading. Maybe it's time for creators to treat their users as mature, intelligent adults and not like moody pre-teens and care more about values than metrics. One sure gets the buzz, the views etc. but if one stirs up too much of a storm, metrics can bite him back and see his subs go down.
I don't use Mint either, I use Antergos (yeah... I know, right?!) but I've installed Mint numerous times for some of my clients and it was a good match. It's a rather good distro but regardless, maybe writing things like 'Scientific Linux & Antergos are shutting down. Should Linux Mint be concerned/do the same?' or 'Do we still need Linux Mint?' (this one is spicier) or -Should the LM devs close the project and focus on Cinnamon instead?-, opening up an honest and informed discussion would have made marketers sad but readers much happier and less 'on the defensive'.
It's not a matter of expressing or not expressing opinions but rather on HOW you do that and how many facts back those opinions up.
Peace!
reply
Essoje
Don't worry, you are not being attacked by anyone because of 'these sick and corrupt times': you just made a video with a clickbait title without fully understanding the consequences of what you were doing, and people that are passionate about the subject are responding on that title alone now.
-They should have watched the video-, I hear a voice in my head say... I should really go to a doctor soon... ... Anyways, they wouldn't watch the video with such a title, actually: A title of a video, book, article, etc, is (at least should be created as) the summary of what you want your audience to prepare for, an expectation of what's to come. If what you put on your title is -Distro X Should Die-, you create the expectation that your argument is -I want Distro X to burst in flames together with its users, muawahahaha-.
Human psychology will tell you that the more people feel confronted (real or not), the less likely they'll listen to the other side, even if it's something of value, and will return up to as much aggressiveness as the perceived aggressiveness from the other side.
My point is: the outrage had nothing to do with what your stance on anything at all was, but what you demonstrated in 3 simple words on one of your video's title. What I'd take from this? Clickbait titles are a double-edge sword, use them with care.
Edit: I should have also added that humanity has this problem since we started writing things, it's not something new. That's why there's a whole subject of study concentrated on how to write thing without people getting angry at you, and it doesn't always works anyways.
reply
Don't worry, you are not being attacked by anyone because of 'these sick and corrupt times': you just made a video with a clickbait title without fully understanding the consequences of what you were doing, and people that are passionate about the subject are responding on that title alone now.
-They should have watched the video-, I hear a voice in my head say... I should really go to a doctor soon... ... Anyways, they wouldn't watch the video with such a title, actually: A title of a video, book, article, etc, is (at least should be created as) the summary of what you want your audience to prepare for, an expectation of what's to come. If what you put on your title is -Distro X Should Die-, you create the expectation that your argument is -I want Distro X to burst in flames together with its users, muawahahaha-.
Human psychology will tell you that the more people feel confronted (real or not), the less likely they'll listen to the other side, even if it's something of value, and will return up to as much aggressiveness as the perceived aggressiveness from the other side.
My point is: the outrage had nothing to do with what your stance on anything at all was, but what you demonstrated in 3 simple words on one of your video's title. What I'd take from this? Clickbait titles are a double-edge sword, use them with care.
Edit: I should have also added that humanity has this problem since we started writing things, it's not something new. That's why there's a whole subject of study concentrated on how to write thing without people getting angry at you, and it doesn't always works anyways.
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kevin
You like Arch, I don't and it doesn't matter at the end of the day, because I'll never meet you, and your single usage of Arch won't tip the scales of Linux distro's in history.
The reality the true reality is you're a content creator this is not the Linux community this is YOUR community. You have a sizeable audience this means you are visible to a lot of people. What your experiencing isn't a problematic series of behaviors from one specific group. You're experiencing the reality that EVERYONE feels entitled to the point they broadcast to the world the opinions they have while sitting on the toilet...
I used to work in EMS, and people throw phrases back and forth like when someone would say, -opinions are like assholes...-
I'd respond, -Everyone is one...- By that I mean if ANYONE were to surround themselves with 100 people for 2 hours and shared every thought that went through their head I'm willing bet by the end 80% thought they were an asshole for at least one thought they expressed, even if they didn't care about the rest.
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You like Arch, I don't and it doesn't matter at the end of the day, because I'll never meet you, and your single usage of Arch won't tip the scales of Linux distro's in history.
The reality the true reality is you're a content creator this is not the Linux community this is YOUR community. You have a sizeable audience this means you are visible to a lot of people. What your experiencing isn't a problematic series of behaviors from one specific group. You're experiencing the reality that EVERYONE feels entitled to the point they broadcast to the world the opinions they have while sitting on the toilet...
I used to work in EMS, and people throw phrases back and forth like when someone would say, -opinions are like assholes...-
I'd respond, -Everyone is one...- By that I mean if ANYONE were to surround themselves with 100 people for 2 hours and shared every thought that went through their head I'm willing bet by the end 80% thought they were an asshole for at least one thought they expressed, even if they didn't care about the rest.
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Daniel
The problem I had with the article is the problem I have with most arguments against Linux Mint is most of it is based on very dated ideas of what the distro is about. It stopped being about Ubuntu plus codecs a very long time ago. And it is not just about a desktop environment either. Linux Mint and LMDE gained popularity because of decisions made by Canonical that people have either been concerned or outright put off by. This is not unique to the Ubuntu ecosystem if you will. CentOS came into being partly as a response to Red Hat business decisions. There are plenty of people who love these Linux versions that don't want to be held to the whims of the parent corporation. The other problem I have with the article is the exact same arguments can be made to argue that Ubuntu itself should die because based on the same logic it is nothing more then a more user friendly implementation of Debian and now that Debian is easier to use Ubuntu is irrelevant. After all Ubuntu started out as just making Debian more user friendly.
reply
The problem I had with the article is the problem I have with most arguments against Linux Mint is most of it is based on very dated ideas of what the distro is about. It stopped being about Ubuntu plus codecs a very long time ago. And it is not just about a desktop environment either. Linux Mint and LMDE gained popularity because of decisions made by Canonical that people have either been concerned or outright put off by. This is not unique to the Ubuntu ecosystem if you will. CentOS came into being partly as a response to Red Hat business decisions. There are plenty of people who love these Linux versions that don't want to be held to the whims of the parent corporation. The other problem I have with the article is the exact same arguments can be made to argue that Ubuntu itself should die because based on the same logic it is nothing more then a more user friendly implementation of Debian and now that Debian is easier to use Ubuntu is irrelevant. After all Ubuntu started out as just making Debian more user friendly.
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Brian
I use mint cinnamon because I am mentally heading towards old age dementia etc... I can install and when it is done all it wants if 2 passwords (one for the machine and one for isp and it works - because I an also lazy & dislike manuals... When it is popular it is likely a target for hacking... Nearly all ISP's use Linux variants for its robustness - if they use -windows- I become weary, back out and ensure my firewall and anti-virus is up to scratch... Most Linux variants work, Windows had back doors in its software and as did Intel since 1988 when I was consulting at Au$65 per hour. A lot of my work was in using machine code... A lot of people in Amerika seem to have gone Psychotic in their inability to share ideas, opinions and divergent views. Yours appears well reasoned, so I do not understand the flack you seem to have received... Blessings from North Australian wilderness where almost everyone needs a good 4x4 and not a show-pony.
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I use mint cinnamon because I am mentally heading towards old age dementia etc... I can install and when it is done all it wants if 2 passwords (one for the machine and one for isp and it works - because I an also lazy & dislike manuals... When it is popular it is likely a target for hacking... Nearly all ISP's use Linux variants for its robustness - if they use -windows- I become weary, back out and ensure my firewall and anti-virus is up to scratch... Most Linux variants work, Windows had back doors in its software and as did Intel since 1988 when I was consulting at Au$65 per hour. A lot of my work was in using machine code... A lot of people in Amerika seem to have gone Psychotic in their inability to share ideas, opinions and divergent views. Yours appears well reasoned, so I do not understand the flack you seem to have received... Blessings from North Australian wilderness where almost everyone needs a good 4x4 and not a show-pony.
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Brazen
No newbie to Linux. Learned way back in the day with slackware and red hat (5 if I recall) when things were far less -out of the box- friendly. Been out of the game till recently, makes me smirk when I hear about the these Arch running haters I've noticed people complain about. It's all the same when the gui comes off (more or less).
I run Mint these days, solely for the install update go convenience and because I prefer it aesthetically out of the box vs Ubuntu. Not really a fan of these touch screen style desktops that have become a thing. Idgaf if it annoys anyone else, I know my experience level and tastes.
I just don't see the point with getting in-depth on my host install/setup when I could spend that time setting up my network lab to train for my future certifications.. Everybody's got their own reasons..
You do you man. Never bend the knee to the woke and overly sensitive fux. That's the worst thing anyone can do..
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No newbie to Linux. Learned way back in the day with slackware and red hat (5 if I recall) when things were far less -out of the box- friendly. Been out of the game till recently, makes me smirk when I hear about the these Arch running haters I've noticed people complain about. It's all the same when the gui comes off (more or less).
I run Mint these days, solely for the install update go convenience and because I prefer it aesthetically out of the box vs Ubuntu. Not really a fan of these touch screen style desktops that have become a thing. Idgaf if it annoys anyone else, I know my experience level and tastes.
I just don't see the point with getting in-depth on my host install/setup when I could spend that time setting up my network lab to train for my future certifications.. Everybody's got their own reasons..
You do you man. Never bend the knee to the woke and overly sensitive fux. That's the worst thing anyone can do..
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Ian
Don't focus on name-callers. It's an unfortunate reality of the internet that you'll have to let some comments go unanswered in order to avoid the toxicity that you complain about (never encountered it myself) becoming an even bigger issue. You definitely seemed very upset through the course of this video. Very different from your usual demeanor. If you're concerned about not making the Linux Community a safe space, the only thing you really have to do is state your opinions respectfully and accept the criticism that's part and parcel of publishing those thoughts in a public forum.
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Don't focus on name-callers. It's an unfortunate reality of the internet that you'll have to let some comments go unanswered in order to avoid the toxicity that you complain about (never encountered it myself) becoming an even bigger issue. You definitely seemed very upset through the course of this video. Very different from your usual demeanor. If you're concerned about not making the Linux Community a safe space, the only thing you really have to do is state your opinions respectfully and accept the criticism that's part and parcel of publishing those thoughts in a public forum.
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James
As the author of the article in question, I'd like to point out that I'm advocating for Cinnamon. It's just as important as GNOME or KDE, and would benefit greatly by getting more of Clem's attention, and the attention of the Mint team in general, as (like GNOME and KDE) it needs more polish in certain aspects.
My story is fundamentally about project management and avoiding burnout. Clem's public statements imply he's having a rough time of it as of late, and reassessing priorities is something that any project manager should do.
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As the author of the article in question, I'd like to point out that I'm advocating for Cinnamon. It's just as important as GNOME or KDE, and would benefit greatly by getting more of Clem's attention, and the attention of the Mint team in general, as (like GNOME and KDE) it needs more polish in certain aspects.
My story is fundamentally about project management and avoiding burnout. Clem's public statements imply he's having a rough time of it as of late, and reassessing priorities is something that any project manager should do.
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cjvincent86
People have been disagreeing with people on the internet for decades my man, having more than a dozen anonymous people disagree with you online isn't a sign of some kind of new trend of college student political correctness or whatever, nor is it suppression of your free speech. You're literally throwing a fit from a one-to-many platform. Just before you used the word -triggered- in this video I thought to myself, -my dude sounds really triggered by people disagreeing with him in online comments.-
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People have been disagreeing with people on the internet for decades my man, having more than a dozen anonymous people disagree with you online isn't a sign of some kind of new trend of college student political correctness or whatever, nor is it suppression of your free speech. You're literally throwing a fit from a one-to-many platform. Just before you used the word -triggered- in this video I thought to myself, -my dude sounds really triggered by people disagreeing with him in online comments.-
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LEGITT
When you state such things in your title - We take offense of the -nice clickbaity title-, and your opinions then always come second.
Humans are emotional beings and if you want to start a proper debate or present a topic to start a conversation, you should NOT start by making an extreme statement, let alone putting it in your title.
It's like if you're trying to talk to a woman you don't know, who's wearing makeup - you don't start with something like -makup is for insecure women-.
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When you state such things in your title - We take offense of the -nice clickbaity title-, and your opinions then always come second.
Humans are emotional beings and if you want to start a proper debate or present a topic to start a conversation, you should NOT start by making an extreme statement, let alone putting it in your title.
It's like if you're trying to talk to a woman you don't know, who's wearing makeup - you don't start with something like -makup is for insecure women-.
reply
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