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4 Shoulder Mysteries Resolved ft. Stephanie

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Rating: 4.5; Vote: 2

4 Shoulder Mysteries Resolved ft. Stephanie gibbyboy66: Some of these answers are right, some are wrong however. See my post on the previous video, unsolved shoulder mysteries. I'll copy paste themThe reason shoulder pressing recruits more activation is because of the synergistic muscles assisting in GH flexion is controlled with overhead movement. This means that synergistic muscles that assist with GH flexion can no longer adequately assist with GH flexion, these being coracobrachialis, biceps brachii, and the clavicular head of the pec major. Also, the answer for decreased rear delt activation with a pronated (internally rotated GH joint) with pec dec horizontal abduction is incorrect. The source you provided is that maybe the electrodes picked up on infraspinatus and teres minor activation (two muscles of the rotator cuff that contribute to external rotation) is false. The rear deltoid is a superficial muscle that is not covered by either the infraspinatus or the teres minor. The only way cross communication would have been heard/seen is if the researchers improperly placed the electrodes, which is highly unlikely given that palpations of the rear delt, infraspinatus, and teres minor are easily to locate, although the teres minor is a bit more difficult. If you assume the researchers were not competent enough to place electrodes for EMG testing, then it brings to question the reliability of ALL EMG studies. However, these researchers are more than likely competent. See my response to question number 4 below. Cliffs will be provided here however: In the starting position the rear delt is maximally stretched with a pronated position, placing it in a disadvantageous position. With a neutral grip, there is less ER allowing for more cross bridges to be formed in the rear delt. Original responses posted below. 1. Front delts are used more for pressing because the anterior delts are in a more advantageous position. You have to follow the fibers to understand the function. With pressing, the anterior delts are in a more advantageous position to overcome the load than the lateral head. Look at the GH joint with pressing and then look at it with lateral raises. With pressing the GH joint is in external/lateral rotation which shifts the load to the anterior delts. With lateral raising the GH joint is in a more anatomical position/neutral which allows the lateral head fibers to perform the workload. 2. The front raise is less effective than a shoulder press because you have to know what muscles cross the GH joint that also allow for GH flexion. The biceps cross the GH joint and aide GH flexion, same with the coracobrachialis, and the clavicular head of the pec major. Since these muscles cross the GH joint and aide in GH flexion, it can be assumed that the activity of these muscles decreases overall anterior delt EMG activation. With a shoulder press however, activity of the biceps, coracobrachialis, and clavicular head of the pec major are less, causing an increase in total muscle activation of the anterior delt. 3. Grip width is hard to say given that the more overload that occurs usually yields greater activation. That said, whatever grip allows for more weight to be pressed allows for more overall activation of the delts. However, if we look at isolation we can probably increase deltoid activation proportionally if we take a wider grip which would minimize tricep and pec involvement. 4. The pronated grip puts the posterior delt in a mechanically disadvantageous position because it is maximally stretched and is in passive insufficiency at the start of the movement. This basically means the posterior delt is maximally stretched at the start position (GH flexion and internal rotation caused by pronation. Since the posterior delt performs GH extension and external rotation, the neutral grip allows for more cross-bridges to be formed since it is not in a maximally lengthened position at the start of the movement. To compensate for this maximal lengthening/disadvantageous position the the rhomboids and mid traps will have more involvement causing increased scapular retraction and a decrease in posterior delt activation with the pronated grip.
Date: 2019-11-06

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Comments and reviews: 9

PeeJee Jansen
nice series, still a few pointers: 1: the actual correct answer would be that the question is faulty. It implies a causal relationship between movement plane and contributing muscles. Movement planes were never meant to predict muscle activation, they're merely invented for reference of direction and orientation in space. 2: The 'why' cannot just be explained by ROMs and length-tension ratios. Kinematically the front raise is a more complex and unstable movement to control. More degrees of freedom typically come with less ability to overcome high loads. Btw, where does the claim that the front raise stops at the horizontal come from? 4: you're acually not referring to a pronated hand position, but a position with the palm of the hand facing down (which doesn't equal pronation. The location of rotation (internally in the shoulder or pronation in the forearm) determines whether the rear deltoid is more activated or not.
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Purple Taco
Front raises activate lateral delta for same reason pressing activates anterior delts, rotation. Front raises internally rotate the humerus this putting the greatest force on the lateral head which is at a mechanical advantage. If you where to do front raises with a neutral or supinate grip the anterior delts takes over due a shift towards the front in mechanical advantage. The anterior delts are impacted more by rotation than location of humerus. Try it for yourself and compare pronated, neutral and supinate grips and I can assure you that neutral and supinate grips will cause decreased lateral activation in exchange for increased anterior activation.
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Kyle Newman
Jeff as a natural lifter what are some things you would want tested in a blood test? I'm looking to get my blood work done out of pure curiosity as to where I stand compared to the norm. From a little research I am curious about Testosterone, Free testosterone, IGF-1 Estradiol, DHEA/DHEA-s and a Full thyroid panel. Are there any other areas that you would request to be tested as well? Also, could be a cool video idea for you to get blood work done a few times periodically in different stages of diet and exercise and compare it to when you compete next (maybe in 2018 according to a podcast I recently heard you on)Thanks and keep up the great content
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Phuc Nguyen
Another great video Jeff I was wondering if it was possible to do a research based video on water consumption while working out. I remember watching a video where you were training in Egypt with Stephanie and you mentioned that you would rather have only a little bit of water to drink with your preworkout so that you wouldn't need to go to the restroom so often while working outJust wanted your thoughts on it because I know for sure staying hydrated is great while working out, just how much hydration is necessarily needed while working out. Thanks JeffKeep up the great and informative videos
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Jason Maggard
I concur with what he mentioned at the end (the reading may have been skewed, or something else wrong, since other studies show prone grip is actually more efficient for rear delt than neutral. There is a Suppversity EMG analysis (look it up, it is quite thorough, that suggests prone grip= more rear delt activation, while neutral grip= more lateral delt and rotator cuff (Infraspinatus and Teres Minor. Looking at the fiber alignment and movements it seems clear to me that this is the case, and it is also how I personally feel the exercises working as well.
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Unexpected Stranger
dear jeff Im really corious about your opinion: I injured my left shoulder/rotator cuff (it feels like I strained the muscles or tendons in this area) and after speaking with my doctor, he said it will hurt a few days. now Im wondering since many recommend training the other side unilaterally while leaving the left side healing; is this actually recommended (in your opinion) or will I just create unnecessary muscle imbalances between my legt and my right side?
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darynx
Really liked this one from an informational standpoint, but with videos visual content I think this would have been better suited to be shot anywhere with more space so you can better demonstrate the movements you're talking about. If you really like shooting in your car them maybe a clip of the movement off to the side so those of us that are a bit more on the noob side can better follow along with the discussion.
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Casey Gutierrez
On the contrary to your answer for question 4, internally rotating with arms either at or slightly above 90 puts the rear delt in a stretched position. Yes, you are missing out on the ER component however, when specifically trying to isolate rear delt going the full ROM will recruit other muscle to perform the movement. But be sure to push the weight away as opposed to pulling the weight back,
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blondegamerguy
Stephanie looks really racially ambiguous. Is she hapa? Like, half-Filipina half-White? Or, Latina with a heavy dose of Native American ancestry (which is essentially ancient [South] East Asian? Anyway, she looks distinctively (South) East Asian. I guess she is hapa, with a White father (because of her surname) and a Filipina mother.
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