Sleeping Bags vs Quilts Foam Pads vs Inflatable Pads Down vs Synthetic
video description
First off, most people hate mummy bags. That's why most people won't even go camping period. Today's high tech bags are crazy light anyway, adding a few grams for leg room, and getting a better nights sleep is well worth it. The ideal bag offers room to move around while still maintaining its insulation value, optional foot ventilation, and has the option to use a hood (it lies flat under your head if you don't cinch it up. I have two such bags, which also have the benefit of being able to be zipped together so that two people can snuggle up comfortably. Try that with your mummy bag. (I found myself wondering if the EE bags you mentioned later in your video could be zipped together)
Down has absolutely zero insulation value if it gets wet. For the love of God, IF you buy a down sleeping bag, get an emergency bag so that you don't immediately freeze to death if (when) your down bag eventually gets soaked.
Also, I've had the same synthetic below-zero bags for 25 years now. They're fine, they don't wear out if you take care of them. Countless nights of actual use. One whole winter in the back of an RV whose heater wasn't big enough to reach the back room. That type of use would murder the loft of a down bag.
A sliced up sleeping bag quilt is just silly. Get one of those insulated emergency blankets. They're lighter, take up less room and perform more functions. What's the name. Snugpak jungle blanket. They make insulated blankets as well as insulated bag liners (which double as bags. I'm currently debating if I want one that's comfy and snugly, or one that has grommets so that it can double as a tarp. I'm leaning towards the tarp / blankie.
You didn't mention bag liners, insulated bag liners or bivy bags. These can add TREMENDOUS benefits to the temperature range and durability of your main bag.
You didn't mention pillows.
My biggest issue with closed cell foam pads is that they don't work worth a CRAP in high humidity and sub-freezing temperatures. The last time I used one was pre-Y2K. My significant other and I went winter camping up in the mountains with her parents in Colorado (her parents idea, not mine. The foam literally loaded up with ice crystals and was horrific and painful to sleep on. Luckily, we tried going to bed crazy early that night, so I was able to head down the mountain and pick up a cheesy air mattress from a Wal-mart before they closed. Those foam pads got recycled as knee pads for gardening, and I've never bought another one.
A thick enough self-inflating pad that keeps you from touching the ground is indistinguishable from an air mattress. The key is to pay attention and insist on a self-inflating pad that is at least 1 inch thick when inflated. the closer you can get to two inches, the better. The key is that when the mattress gets upwards of two inches thick, you're putting a LOT of stress on those skinny little seams, so they have to be top quality to hold up. That is the real reason that most self-inflating pads are somewhere less than 1 inch thick. Note that the high quality self-inflating pads MUST be more durable than the other ones by design, for this specific reason.
You didn't mention the value of wearing layers of clothing, or the dangers of over-insulating and filling your bag with sweat. For example, I notice in this video that you're wearing cotton under fleece. Wearing cotton next to your skin to wick moisture in to the fleece insulation layer is an excellent way to insulate. Throw on a weather proof jacket and you're set. You can use the same layers to sleep in just a bag liner (15 degree protection) down to around 50 degrees, comfortably (with a mattress pad, of course. Put that same set up in a dual wall tent, and you can sleep down to 25-30 degrees comfortably (don't forget the fleece / thinsulate hat. However, if you use that same set up in a below-zero or four-season bag in freezing weather? You're going to wake up in the middle of the night with 100% humidity and moisture filling your bag and clothes and your teeth chattering, because you've over-insulated and now you need to dry off somehow. without freezing your delicate bits off.
I don't know, maybe that last bit is a bit beyond the scope of sleep systems, but I think that including your clothing layers as important components of a sleep system is a very valuable consideration. ESPECIALLY when you're trimming every last gram of weight off, and might end up needing to consider those options when a 60 degree evening suddenly shifts to sub-freezing temperatures. ;)
Date: 2020-08-18
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Comments and reviews: 9
Bill
Lots of things to consider but imo Planning is the ticket. There's been too much emphasis on light-weight (Not this video, I'm just generalizing.
The last thing you should do is compromise weight in your sleeping system; compromise weight else-where. Sure it's important to keep the weight to an acceptable outcome but that comes down to planning the hike.
When you plan your hike, allow for exit strategies to survive and if things get too tough don't be scared to call it a day. Avoid folk who are not prepared or skimp to save a few pounds and especially avoid those who cover up injuries or who are too proud to call it a day.
So remember the words, Who, When, Why, How and apply those words to everything you put in your pack.
Often, it's not the weight of the loaded-pack but the room available in the pack and because this video is about sleeping systems and no one seems to want to commit to what to take try this.
Planning
Planning
Planning
If you can carry your pack comfortably that's fine, if it's a bit heavy take more rest breaks more often.
For those folk who are seasoned hikers, you'll know this can and does happen:
Wet Feet
Cold Feet
Wet Clothes
Cold Wet Clothes
Cold Hands
Really Cold Hands
I can't undo my shoe laces
I can't zip my bag up!
I can't unbutton my pants
I can't get up off the ground
So here's what to do, Plan those exit points and plan on how you'll get dry and stay warm.
The sleeping system to me is the same as a survival system and just as some folk dump safety gear or have the attitude it will be ok, it's at those times that that freak storm will make you wish you had carried that extra 4 pounds.
My suggestion is to cover your bases and once you've planned, you might consider this.
Use 850+ Goose down that has been treated to make it hydrophobic.
1 x mummy sleeping bag that has a hood and full length zip and a very good draft tube for the length of the zip plus a tube around the neck area. This bag should be open at the base and have a draw cord. This type of bag will allow you to sleep comfortably in above freezing conditions and allow your feet to stick out the end of the bag to dry. many folk complain about the draft caused by the draw cord; buy a long bag instead of a regular. Buy a pair of goose down booties off ebay from China, they are cheap and will keep your feet toasty warm. Add to that:
1 x Goose down quilt with a sewn in foot box and make sure that's a long one too.
The combined system will keep you warm when the temperature drops well below freezing and when you are in the Mummy sleeping bag you'll not get drafts when the quilt is over you.
2 sleeping items fill the void if it's too hot or too cold.
Take a full length closed cell foam sleeping mat.
Take a light weight insulated air mattress.
Take an air mattress inflator like the Big Agnes Pump House which will make inflating your air mattress a pleasure.
So folks, don't skimp on your sleeping system and fwiw, take a one man or two man tent so that when you do sleep, you'll sleep knowing you'll survive the harshest wind and rain. Keep that tent water-proofed, use nikwax or some other product.
Remember don't compromise weight in the sleeping system, dump other gear or take less junk or like I suggested Plan your trip better.
Keep your feet and head dry and keep those hands dry, if you can't use your hands, you are a gonna dead.
Don't be lazy, don't rely on others, keep your gear in good order.
Cheers from Bill
reply
Lots of things to consider but imo Planning is the ticket. There's been too much emphasis on light-weight (Not this video, I'm just generalizing.
The last thing you should do is compromise weight in your sleeping system; compromise weight else-where. Sure it's important to keep the weight to an acceptable outcome but that comes down to planning the hike.
When you plan your hike, allow for exit strategies to survive and if things get too tough don't be scared to call it a day. Avoid folk who are not prepared or skimp to save a few pounds and especially avoid those who cover up injuries or who are too proud to call it a day.
So remember the words, Who, When, Why, How and apply those words to everything you put in your pack.
Often, it's not the weight of the loaded-pack but the room available in the pack and because this video is about sleeping systems and no one seems to want to commit to what to take try this.
Planning
Planning
Planning
If you can carry your pack comfortably that's fine, if it's a bit heavy take more rest breaks more often.
For those folk who are seasoned hikers, you'll know this can and does happen:
Wet Feet
Cold Feet
Wet Clothes
Cold Wet Clothes
Cold Hands
Really Cold Hands
I can't undo my shoe laces
I can't zip my bag up!
I can't unbutton my pants
I can't get up off the ground
So here's what to do, Plan those exit points and plan on how you'll get dry and stay warm.
The sleeping system to me is the same as a survival system and just as some folk dump safety gear or have the attitude it will be ok, it's at those times that that freak storm will make you wish you had carried that extra 4 pounds.
My suggestion is to cover your bases and once you've planned, you might consider this.
Use 850+ Goose down that has been treated to make it hydrophobic.
1 x mummy sleeping bag that has a hood and full length zip and a very good draft tube for the length of the zip plus a tube around the neck area. This bag should be open at the base and have a draw cord. This type of bag will allow you to sleep comfortably in above freezing conditions and allow your feet to stick out the end of the bag to dry. many folk complain about the draft caused by the draw cord; buy a long bag instead of a regular. Buy a pair of goose down booties off ebay from China, they are cheap and will keep your feet toasty warm. Add to that:
1 x Goose down quilt with a sewn in foot box and make sure that's a long one too.
The combined system will keep you warm when the temperature drops well below freezing and when you are in the Mummy sleeping bag you'll not get drafts when the quilt is over you.
2 sleeping items fill the void if it's too hot or too cold.
Take a full length closed cell foam sleeping mat.
Take a light weight insulated air mattress.
Take an air mattress inflator like the Big Agnes Pump House which will make inflating your air mattress a pleasure.
So folks, don't skimp on your sleeping system and fwiw, take a one man or two man tent so that when you do sleep, you'll sleep knowing you'll survive the harshest wind and rain. Keep that tent water-proofed, use nikwax or some other product.
Remember don't compromise weight in the sleeping system, dump other gear or take less junk or like I suggested Plan your trip better.
Keep your feet and head dry and keep those hands dry, if you can't use your hands, you are a gonna dead.
Don't be lazy, don't rely on others, keep your gear in good order.
Cheers from Bill
reply
genkishan
Used to be great fan of the self-inflatable pads till last summer in scorching temperatures my pad popped up and became useless-was a wake up call sophisticated equipment can eventually break down and can ruin your trip, this year going for couple of months backpacking with a 'bombproof' Nemo Switchback pad, in the shop they had a bed of big pebbles for people to try their pads on and the 50 Switchback felt surprisingly good-at home I've been sleeping for years on futons so luxury is not an issue anyway, also don't forget when you're outdoors usually around bedtime you feel quite exhausted and sleep comes within minutes.
reply
Used to be great fan of the self-inflatable pads till last summer in scorching temperatures my pad popped up and became useless-was a wake up call sophisticated equipment can eventually break down and can ruin your trip, this year going for couple of months backpacking with a 'bombproof' Nemo Switchback pad, in the shop they had a bed of big pebbles for people to try their pads on and the 50 Switchback felt surprisingly good-at home I've been sleeping for years on futons so luxury is not an issue anyway, also don't forget when you're outdoors usually around bedtime you feel quite exhausted and sleep comes within minutes.
reply
Mostlyharmless1985
It's heavy, but I have a military poncho with a liner, and a simple sheet over a self inflating sleeping pad. If it gets bad enough that I need the woobie, i use the woobie with a sheet, if it gets worse than that, I'll tie the woobie to the poncho, snap it together, and put the sleeping pad inside the burrito it makes get inside, and then put the sheet over that. Beyond that i'm layering clothes, and considering a fire.
This also subtracts a rain jacket and wind breaker from my bag, as you can use the poncho as, well, a poncho, and if you attach the liner to it, it becomes a pretty nifty cape.
reply
It's heavy, but I have a military poncho with a liner, and a simple sheet over a self inflating sleeping pad. If it gets bad enough that I need the woobie, i use the woobie with a sheet, if it gets worse than that, I'll tie the woobie to the poncho, snap it together, and put the sleeping pad inside the burrito it makes get inside, and then put the sheet over that. Beyond that i'm layering clothes, and considering a fire.
This also subtracts a rain jacket and wind breaker from my bag, as you can use the poncho as, well, a poncho, and if you attach the liner to it, it becomes a pretty nifty cape.
reply
DirtPoorFarmer
I bought a sleeping bag at a store called garage sale maniacs. A couple years ago and it turns out that the bag was made in a factory in Seattle (I live in olympia wa)but the factory shut down in like 68 so even at the very least this bag is old lol but it works so well the loft is just as good as any much much more expensive bags only bummer is it didnt have a temp rating bu so far I have been out at 26 degrees and had to open it up a bit and still didn't use my sleeping bag liner I got it for like 10 bucks i have had it for almost 4 years and its the best money on any gear I have ever spent
reply
I bought a sleeping bag at a store called garage sale maniacs. A couple years ago and it turns out that the bag was made in a factory in Seattle (I live in olympia wa)but the factory shut down in like 68 so even at the very least this bag is old lol but it works so well the loft is just as good as any much much more expensive bags only bummer is it didnt have a temp rating bu so far I have been out at 26 degrees and had to open it up a bit and still didn't use my sleeping bag liner I got it for like 10 bucks i have had it for almost 4 years and its the best money on any gear I have ever spent
reply
Walter
On Dixie's use of a self inflating short pad: I agree that a closed cell pad to sit on during halts is very nice, especially during wet or very cold weather. Also You can insulate your lower legs and feet by sleeping on your pack, but I have never found that comfortable or fully effective. Instead, take a small closed cell pad just large enough to fill in the uncovered area. Rigging up some tie tabs to connect it to your self-inflating pad would be useful. You then have a small closed cell pad - weighing very little - that you can use to sit on during halts.
reply
On Dixie's use of a self inflating short pad: I agree that a closed cell pad to sit on during halts is very nice, especially during wet or very cold weather. Also You can insulate your lower legs and feet by sleeping on your pack, but I have never found that comfortable or fully effective. Instead, take a small closed cell pad just large enough to fill in the uncovered area. Rigging up some tie tabs to connect it to your self-inflating pad would be useful. You then have a small closed cell pad - weighing very little - that you can use to sit on during halts.
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thib
Hi Dixie,
I'm considering to go with the Thermarest NeoAir small size on my next thru-hike.
As I'm not difficult and I want to cut down the wait, I confident that the Small size with my backpack under my feet will fit my need. :)
However, I'm concerned about insulation. I watch all your sleeping mat videos to find a review of that combination but you don't explain more that 'it was you gear for the CDT'. How did you feel about insulating your feet? Your Quilts isolate you enough to compensate the absence of sleeping mat insulation?
Cheers
reply
Hi Dixie,
I'm considering to go with the Thermarest NeoAir small size on my next thru-hike.
As I'm not difficult and I want to cut down the wait, I confident that the Small size with my backpack under my feet will fit my need. :)
However, I'm concerned about insulation. I watch all your sleeping mat videos to find a review of that combination but you don't explain more that 'it was you gear for the CDT'. How did you feel about insulating your feet? Your Quilts isolate you enough to compensate the absence of sleeping mat insulation?
Cheers
reply
Trevor
Quilts? Sleeping bags? Pads? What Are they teaching outdoorsmen these days?
One good thick 100% wool blanket, or 2 decent 35 Army 60/30% all wool blankets and maybe a sheet is all one needs for warmth out in the wild. Add in a ground cloth for more warmth and protection from the ground. If you're too cold add in a space blanket to supplement. Pro-tip, it'll keep you warm even while soaking wet. (Con, wool also gets heavier while wet)
For a mat, use a thick bed of leaves or pine needles.
reply
Quilts? Sleeping bags? Pads? What Are they teaching outdoorsmen these days?
One good thick 100% wool blanket, or 2 decent 35 Army 60/30% all wool blankets and maybe a sheet is all one needs for warmth out in the wild. Add in a ground cloth for more warmth and protection from the ground. If you're too cold add in a space blanket to supplement. Pro-tip, it'll keep you warm even while soaking wet. (Con, wool also gets heavier while wet)
For a mat, use a thick bed of leaves or pine needles.
reply
Gerry
you are so informative. thank you. I'm planning to hike/camping in Florida, what do you think about using something like a fleece blanket (or 2) instead of a quilt or sleeping bag? would a fleece blanket, or two, take up much more room and be heavier than a quilt? I'm a warm sleeper and sleep in different position (except on my back, so I think that sleeping in a sleeping bag would be restrictive for me, so that's why I thought of a fleece blanket. thanks
reply
you are so informative. thank you. I'm planning to hike/camping in Florida, what do you think about using something like a fleece blanket (or 2) instead of a quilt or sleeping bag? would a fleece blanket, or two, take up much more room and be heavier than a quilt? I'm a warm sleeper and sleep in different position (except on my back, so I think that sleeping in a sleeping bag would be restrictive for me, so that's why I thought of a fleece blanket. thanks
reply
Andrew
I sleep on a coarse packaging blanket on the tent floor to capture dirt keeps me away from the cold tent floor as I flop around in my sleep and sleep under a sleeved blanket to sleep under so that I may keep my boots on, because it prevents my shoes from being stolen, or filled with creepy crawlies, keeps my feet warm and I am ready to go if I need to piss or defend myself. The real luxury that I allow myself is a paraffin storm lantern to heat the tent.
reply
I sleep on a coarse packaging blanket on the tent floor to capture dirt keeps me away from the cold tent floor as I flop around in my sleep and sleep under a sleeved blanket to sleep under so that I may keep my boots on, because it prevents my shoes from being stolen, or filled with creepy crawlies, keeps my feet warm and I am ready to go if I need to piss or defend myself. The real luxury that I allow myself is a paraffin storm lantern to heat the tent.
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