This Is The Legal Battle Around The End of Life Option Act and Why It Matters.
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Date: 2019-11-01
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Comments and reviews: 9
RStarbuck13
Incoming wall-o-text: Ok, so here's the biggest reason why right to die laws need to be fought against. This is my own personal experience, and I'm not saying that it is, or is going to be, a universal experience. But I promise you that I'm not the only one who has or will experience this. Over a decade ago, my dad was sick. Terminal. He was never unfit to make his own decisions, but in the event that he became so, he made it extremely clear to my mother and our family that he wanted to continue to fight for every breath, and to take every chance he could to continue living. Mom was given legal power of attorney over his medical decisions and was determined to honor his wishes. Dad took a turn, and it did not look like he was going to be around much longer. He was in and out of consciousness, but when he was awake, he was lucid and maintained that he still wanted to fight. Mom continued to honor this request. His doctor - who was present, who witnessed this and could in no way misinterpret Dad's wishes - did not want to honor this request. He repeatedly argued with and tried to go around Mom - to the point where she feared leaving Dad's room, that the doctor might come in and give Dad something. For whatever reason, this doctor had decided that he knew what was best, and he was going to overrule both the patient and his legal representative. Now, Mom was a nurse for over a decade. She knew her rights and knew the staff at the hospital, and she STILL had to threaten to involve HR in order to override this doctor. In fact, that wasn't enough. The only reason this doctor was removed from my Dad's case was because Mom called another doctor with greater seniority, a personal friend, who came in ON HIS DAY OFF, to take over the case. My dad passed away a few days later. He fought for every minute he could, but in the end he could not win that fight. That was his choice though. How does this relate to right to die laws? Imagine, for a moment, that you're not a nurse. That you're only passingly familiar with your rights as a patient, as most patients are. That you're going through a horrible life-altering or life-ending sickness, and your only patient advocate is yourself, a close friend or family member who likely is no more knowledgable than yourself, or a hospital provided advocate who in no way will be biased towards saving the hospital money by vacating your bed as quickly as possible. Your doctor, who is clearly a very knowledgable and intelligent person to have become a doctor, urges you to consider your right to die. He's confident it will be for the best. In fact, he is adamant that dying is in your best interest, and it's a perfectly legal option to consider. Are you going to argue? Now, who decided that you were going to exercise that right to die? You? The pushy God-complex doctor? The hospital that saves money by forgoing expensive treatments and gets to soon fill it with another paying customer?
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Incoming wall-o-text: Ok, so here's the biggest reason why right to die laws need to be fought against. This is my own personal experience, and I'm not saying that it is, or is going to be, a universal experience. But I promise you that I'm not the only one who has or will experience this. Over a decade ago, my dad was sick. Terminal. He was never unfit to make his own decisions, but in the event that he became so, he made it extremely clear to my mother and our family that he wanted to continue to fight for every breath, and to take every chance he could to continue living. Mom was given legal power of attorney over his medical decisions and was determined to honor his wishes. Dad took a turn, and it did not look like he was going to be around much longer. He was in and out of consciousness, but when he was awake, he was lucid and maintained that he still wanted to fight. Mom continued to honor this request. His doctor - who was present, who witnessed this and could in no way misinterpret Dad's wishes - did not want to honor this request. He repeatedly argued with and tried to go around Mom - to the point where she feared leaving Dad's room, that the doctor might come in and give Dad something. For whatever reason, this doctor had decided that he knew what was best, and he was going to overrule both the patient and his legal representative. Now, Mom was a nurse for over a decade. She knew her rights and knew the staff at the hospital, and she STILL had to threaten to involve HR in order to override this doctor. In fact, that wasn't enough. The only reason this doctor was removed from my Dad's case was because Mom called another doctor with greater seniority, a personal friend, who came in ON HIS DAY OFF, to take over the case. My dad passed away a few days later. He fought for every minute he could, but in the end he could not win that fight. That was his choice though. How does this relate to right to die laws? Imagine, for a moment, that you're not a nurse. That you're only passingly familiar with your rights as a patient, as most patients are. That you're going through a horrible life-altering or life-ending sickness, and your only patient advocate is yourself, a close friend or family member who likely is no more knowledgable than yourself, or a hospital provided advocate who in no way will be biased towards saving the hospital money by vacating your bed as quickly as possible. Your doctor, who is clearly a very knowledgable and intelligent person to have become a doctor, urges you to consider your right to die. He's confident it will be for the best. In fact, he is adamant that dying is in your best interest, and it's a perfectly legal option to consider. Are you going to argue? Now, who decided that you were going to exercise that right to die? You? The pushy God-complex doctor? The hospital that saves money by forgoing expensive treatments and gets to soon fill it with another paying customer?
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Edward Mitchell
I am strongly aginist this, I have 3 main aguments but I would like to preferece I understand people who in pain and people who are suffering might feel there is nothing left to live, I see it can be a financial burden to continue to live and they may only have a few months to live so they feel hopeless. All of this is completely understood1. The underlining reason people choose to end their life is depression. Now having a terminal illness may lead to depression but not everyone with a terminal is depressed. I find it highly problematic to start letting/ accepting someone in their most serious time of need choose to end their own life. It brings up a slippery slope because what if a person is 17 and terminal, not expected to make it to 18, and they want to end their life. An argument could be made they have the maturity of an 18 year old they should be able to end their life. Then if they can do it, the argument becomes about terminal illness and suffering which isn't dependent on age. I feel we would find cases and come to the conclusion quite quickly that there shouldn't be an age requirement. Also plenty of people are in severe pain and inflecting a high financial burden on themselves and others but are not terminally ill. It is very reasonable to assume they might feel death is better than trying to fight on. Why wouldn't we allow them to end their life? They are going through all the same burdens except the terminal illness. We would say they are depressed and just because they are depressed they shouldn't be able to end their life. Depression is the key to this whole issue and once we accept we should allow depressed people the chose to end their own lives we've started down a slippery slope2. Doctors should have no part in this procedure as they have sworn to do harm. This is not the practice of medicine, they are not fighting to preserve your health or extend your life. Unless you are argueing depression is a disease and death is the solution most people should be able to understand this concept. 3. Why are we changing laws to allow people to do this? No one is stopping anyone from ending their own life. Just like in the video with the lady whose husband killed himself. It is not hard or burdensome to do. The reason is simple, it's because the name we call it and the reason people do it is so widely reviled it could never seen as the solution. Suicide because of Depression
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I am strongly aginist this, I have 3 main aguments but I would like to preferece I understand people who in pain and people who are suffering might feel there is nothing left to live, I see it can be a financial burden to continue to live and they may only have a few months to live so they feel hopeless. All of this is completely understood1. The underlining reason people choose to end their life is depression. Now having a terminal illness may lead to depression but not everyone with a terminal is depressed. I find it highly problematic to start letting/ accepting someone in their most serious time of need choose to end their own life. It brings up a slippery slope because what if a person is 17 and terminal, not expected to make it to 18, and they want to end their life. An argument could be made they have the maturity of an 18 year old they should be able to end their life. Then if they can do it, the argument becomes about terminal illness and suffering which isn't dependent on age. I feel we would find cases and come to the conclusion quite quickly that there shouldn't be an age requirement. Also plenty of people are in severe pain and inflecting a high financial burden on themselves and others but are not terminally ill. It is very reasonable to assume they might feel death is better than trying to fight on. Why wouldn't we allow them to end their life? They are going through all the same burdens except the terminal illness. We would say they are depressed and just because they are depressed they shouldn't be able to end their life. Depression is the key to this whole issue and once we accept we should allow depressed people the chose to end their own lives we've started down a slippery slope2. Doctors should have no part in this procedure as they have sworn to do harm. This is not the practice of medicine, they are not fighting to preserve your health or extend your life. Unless you are argueing depression is a disease and death is the solution most people should be able to understand this concept. 3. Why are we changing laws to allow people to do this? No one is stopping anyone from ending their own life. Just like in the video with the lady whose husband killed himself. It is not hard or burdensome to do. The reason is simple, it's because the name we call it and the reason people do it is so widely reviled it could never seen as the solution. Suicide because of Depression
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kght222
a doctor should never advocate it to a patient, but a doctor should seriously consider it if a patient brings it up. it is a hell of a balance to stand on, knife's edge as it were, but we live in a nation where attempting suicide if failed could be met with jail time and i also consider a psychiatric lockup jail time. we need to deal with that, i think it would solve the other. to state my position, i think that we should be able to decide when we are done, we can do it for animals but we can't do it for ourselves? i understand the squeamishness here, nobody wants to lose a friend, but i don't think this is intended for short term mental issues or dissatisfactions, this is about folk who are going to die anyway, and as they do their suffering is only going to increase. but even without that, there is the deep problem that attempting suicide can land you in allot of legal trouble, making a life even worse than it was before someone tried to kill themself, and that ultimately is the problem that needs to be fixed, don't heap harm on top of injury, if someone tried to kill themself they certainly don't need to see the inside of a courtroom, or to get locked away from those that they might love or admire. if you want to create a killer save someone who tried to kill themself, lock them away, then send them out on the streets. communication and compassion are the right response, not this fear of what someone does to themself that humans seem to innately do, at best that would just have them try again, at worst they will try to do it to someone else just to get the first part done. they are folk who need help, we help them by locking them up and ignoring them. we have to get over the suicide stigma before doctor assisted suicide is even close to a real issue. i believe that people should be able to say i'm done, i think there should be some psychological intervention and help at that point, but i don't think that their desire should be ignored.
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a doctor should never advocate it to a patient, but a doctor should seriously consider it if a patient brings it up. it is a hell of a balance to stand on, knife's edge as it were, but we live in a nation where attempting suicide if failed could be met with jail time and i also consider a psychiatric lockup jail time. we need to deal with that, i think it would solve the other. to state my position, i think that we should be able to decide when we are done, we can do it for animals but we can't do it for ourselves? i understand the squeamishness here, nobody wants to lose a friend, but i don't think this is intended for short term mental issues or dissatisfactions, this is about folk who are going to die anyway, and as they do their suffering is only going to increase. but even without that, there is the deep problem that attempting suicide can land you in allot of legal trouble, making a life even worse than it was before someone tried to kill themself, and that ultimately is the problem that needs to be fixed, don't heap harm on top of injury, if someone tried to kill themself they certainly don't need to see the inside of a courtroom, or to get locked away from those that they might love or admire. if you want to create a killer save someone who tried to kill themself, lock them away, then send them out on the streets. communication and compassion are the right response, not this fear of what someone does to themself that humans seem to innately do, at best that would just have them try again, at worst they will try to do it to someone else just to get the first part done. they are folk who need help, we help them by locking them up and ignoring them. we have to get over the suicide stigma before doctor assisted suicide is even close to a real issue. i believe that people should be able to say i'm done, i think there should be some psychological intervention and help at that point, but i don't think that their desire should be ignored.
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FrizzBear
My friend's mom went through this fight. She wanted to die peacefully and with dignity by physician assisted suicide. People she didn't even know, who didn't know jack about her and her illness pushed their agenda and religion on the hospital, where they denied her the request citing ethical issues. My friend's mom suffered in pain. She cried in front of me saying she hated how she was burying her children in debt with hospital bills. She hated how she had to be so medicated all the time for her pain, she was never mentally there, always missing out on her kids lives and big moments. She was going to die, there was no stopping it. But instead of letting her die when and how she wanted to, other people citing religious reasons controlled what she did with her own body. After being denied 4 times, my friend's mom killed herself. All these people did was put that family and that woman through a world of stress and pain just to appease their own conscious. Why they even cared I'll never know. These people denied every request to see my friend's mom. They refused to meet the woman they were controlling the life of. That woman was like a mother to me. We all respected her wish to die. It was NOT a decision made lightly. It took years of consideration along with multiple doctors and psychiatrists declaring her of sound mind when she came to that decision. It wasn't the grief talking. It wasn't the depression. I cannot describe how horribly those people treated my friend's mom and her family, nor can I describe the stress and pain and heartache they caused them. I'm not a religious person, but if there is a hell, I hope those people suffer there as they made my friend's mom and many others suffer. What a person does with their life and their body is completely, wholly, 100% up to them. Another person's agenda, religion, selfishly guided morals have no place in another person's life and decisions.
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My friend's mom went through this fight. She wanted to die peacefully and with dignity by physician assisted suicide. People she didn't even know, who didn't know jack about her and her illness pushed their agenda and religion on the hospital, where they denied her the request citing ethical issues. My friend's mom suffered in pain. She cried in front of me saying she hated how she was burying her children in debt with hospital bills. She hated how she had to be so medicated all the time for her pain, she was never mentally there, always missing out on her kids lives and big moments. She was going to die, there was no stopping it. But instead of letting her die when and how she wanted to, other people citing religious reasons controlled what she did with her own body. After being denied 4 times, my friend's mom killed herself. All these people did was put that family and that woman through a world of stress and pain just to appease their own conscious. Why they even cared I'll never know. These people denied every request to see my friend's mom. They refused to meet the woman they were controlling the life of. That woman was like a mother to me. We all respected her wish to die. It was NOT a decision made lightly. It took years of consideration along with multiple doctors and psychiatrists declaring her of sound mind when she came to that decision. It wasn't the grief talking. It wasn't the depression. I cannot describe how horribly those people treated my friend's mom and her family, nor can I describe the stress and pain and heartache they caused them. I'm not a religious person, but if there is a hell, I hope those people suffer there as they made my friend's mom and many others suffer. What a person does with their life and their body is completely, wholly, 100% up to them. Another person's agenda, religion, selfishly guided morals have no place in another person's life and decisions.
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Matthew Kalonick
Here I am going to simply try to explain my thoughts, beliefs, experiences, and situation as it relates to this topic. I am a young adult, 21 years old that will be attending medical school in the near future. I grew up in a small town family with medical professionals all around me. So to start with my parents thoughts on the topic, they are very against assisted suicide for a variety of reasons to which I will not discuss. When I turned 16 I became a CNA and when I turned 18 I became a CMA. Essentially, I am saying that I have worked with the elderly for a large part of my short life. I have watched people whom I care about, family and residents alike, slowly waste away. I have watched as their mind goes and they loose everything that once made them who they were. I have watched the tole that this takes on their partners and family. This made me initially feel that assisted suicide should absolutely be allowed. However, as a future physician, my job will be to better the health of my patients. No if's. No but's. That is what a physician does. End of discussion. This leads me to never wanting to be the one that makes the call as to if a person should be allowed to kill themselves or not. Finally I do not believe that is my call to decide whether I die or not. I am not the one that put myself on this world. I am not of the mind that it is ethical to do so. I understand the arguments for it. Honestly, better than most, but do I think this needs to be apart of or culture? I do not know. I would venture to guess that most of us would say the same.
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Here I am going to simply try to explain my thoughts, beliefs, experiences, and situation as it relates to this topic. I am a young adult, 21 years old that will be attending medical school in the near future. I grew up in a small town family with medical professionals all around me. So to start with my parents thoughts on the topic, they are very against assisted suicide for a variety of reasons to which I will not discuss. When I turned 16 I became a CNA and when I turned 18 I became a CMA. Essentially, I am saying that I have worked with the elderly for a large part of my short life. I have watched people whom I care about, family and residents alike, slowly waste away. I have watched as their mind goes and they loose everything that once made them who they were. I have watched the tole that this takes on their partners and family. This made me initially feel that assisted suicide should absolutely be allowed. However, as a future physician, my job will be to better the health of my patients. No if's. No but's. That is what a physician does. End of discussion. This leads me to never wanting to be the one that makes the call as to if a person should be allowed to kill themselves or not. Finally I do not believe that is my call to decide whether I die or not. I am not the one that put myself on this world. I am not of the mind that it is ethical to do so. I understand the arguments for it. Honestly, better than most, but do I think this needs to be apart of or culture? I do not know. I would venture to guess that most of us would say the same.
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Tails Clock
Phil: It wont be legal for much longer to assist in suicide. Me: Oh no I hope those people are able to be killed before it's too late. There is no good way to phrase that. But the idea that a longer life automatically is a better life goes against everything we know is true. We know that taking longer to eat a meal doesn't mean the meal tasted good. We know that taking longer to beat a game doesn't mean the game was fun. Being able to live is not a good reason to live. We know this but will happily lie and pretend length is all that matters once we change the subject to life. No matter how many times we say Qaulity over quantity we fall back and become hypocrites. The moment you realise that though, it becomes easy to feel like the jackass you were being, and start doing the right thing. Assisted suicide needs to be allowed. Suicide itself needs to not be treated so horribly. People walking out infront of cars needs to stop. This needs to be done properly, because the way it is now, many other people are getting hurt. The amount of train journeys I've had ruined due to suicides is scary. Every person on the train gets to feel responsible for that death. A gruesome death. Because these people are not given a way out that's safe and sensible. To be allowed to die, to give their organs to someone in hospital that wants to live. To prevent the mental scarring of many people. To ban euthanasia is to endorse suffering and trauma and pain. It really truly is.
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Phil: It wont be legal for much longer to assist in suicide. Me: Oh no I hope those people are able to be killed before it's too late. There is no good way to phrase that. But the idea that a longer life automatically is a better life goes against everything we know is true. We know that taking longer to eat a meal doesn't mean the meal tasted good. We know that taking longer to beat a game doesn't mean the game was fun. Being able to live is not a good reason to live. We know this but will happily lie and pretend length is all that matters once we change the subject to life. No matter how many times we say Qaulity over quantity we fall back and become hypocrites. The moment you realise that though, it becomes easy to feel like the jackass you were being, and start doing the right thing. Assisted suicide needs to be allowed. Suicide itself needs to not be treated so horribly. People walking out infront of cars needs to stop. This needs to be done properly, because the way it is now, many other people are getting hurt. The amount of train journeys I've had ruined due to suicides is scary. Every person on the train gets to feel responsible for that death. A gruesome death. Because these people are not given a way out that's safe and sensible. To be allowed to die, to give their organs to someone in hospital that wants to live. To prevent the mental scarring of many people. To ban euthanasia is to endorse suffering and trauma and pain. It really truly is.
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John Grotegut
This issue is so complicated. The end of life for many people can be extremely physically painful and futile and it seems only fair that the individual should get to decide if the time is worth it, but should the discussion really end there? While I think that people should have the right to choose how their life ends, this issue is way more complicated than it appears at first glance. Consider what liability there would be in a botched operation or if the patient self administered and then changed their mind before dying. I am sure that the vast majority of assisted suicide procedures would be carried out under good faith but inevitably a few would be coerced, and if even 1 out of 1000 is actually a murder rather than an assisted suicide isn't that already enough to consider the practice to be unjust? Ultimately I can't support assisted suicide for the same reason I don't support the death penalty for criminals. A mistake isn't just a medical error or a wrongful conviction, its murder. The finality of the act makes a mistake so heinous that even in the face of getting things right most of the time, its not worth it. I support aggressive palliative care for end of life rather than assisted suicide. Most people kind of have a choice under this scenario anyway. Oops, they took the whole bottle. I don't think they took the coward's way out, they probably made a conscious rational choice.
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This issue is so complicated. The end of life for many people can be extremely physically painful and futile and it seems only fair that the individual should get to decide if the time is worth it, but should the discussion really end there? While I think that people should have the right to choose how their life ends, this issue is way more complicated than it appears at first glance. Consider what liability there would be in a botched operation or if the patient self administered and then changed their mind before dying. I am sure that the vast majority of assisted suicide procedures would be carried out under good faith but inevitably a few would be coerced, and if even 1 out of 1000 is actually a murder rather than an assisted suicide isn't that already enough to consider the practice to be unjust? Ultimately I can't support assisted suicide for the same reason I don't support the death penalty for criminals. A mistake isn't just a medical error or a wrongful conviction, its murder. The finality of the act makes a mistake so heinous that even in the face of getting things right most of the time, its not worth it. I support aggressive palliative care for end of life rather than assisted suicide. Most people kind of have a choice under this scenario anyway. Oops, they took the whole bottle. I don't think they took the coward's way out, they probably made a conscious rational choice.
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Christian Zundel
My Brother took his life a little over a year ago. He was talented, ambitious, creative, and extremely intelligent. He had so much that so many would deeply envy. He was also extremely depressed and dealt with a tempest or emotional pain every day of his life for no reason other than his brain, the most important organ in ones body, was sick from birth; and degenerating with age. After years of threatening suicide, instances of family, friend, medical and police intervention along with a lifetime of therapy he took his life with a shotgun blast to his head. He died alone, frightened and in pain. My Mother found him, in bed, in his apartment days later after concern had built from a few days of no communication or response from him in attempts over text and phone calls. He often did this when he was in a bad place and we tried our best to both respect his boundarys and at the same time, protect him. He was 36, an adult that had made his decision so long ago. Nothing could change his mind, and few could ever conceptualize the daily tempest of emotional pain he felt every day of his life. If he was allowed to take his life legally, after carful medical consideration, he could have passed away with his family and friends; not alone with fear and pain. We could have prepared for his passing and everyone involved, especially my Mother could have had much less painful experience.
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My Brother took his life a little over a year ago. He was talented, ambitious, creative, and extremely intelligent. He had so much that so many would deeply envy. He was also extremely depressed and dealt with a tempest or emotional pain every day of his life for no reason other than his brain, the most important organ in ones body, was sick from birth; and degenerating with age. After years of threatening suicide, instances of family, friend, medical and police intervention along with a lifetime of therapy he took his life with a shotgun blast to his head. He died alone, frightened and in pain. My Mother found him, in bed, in his apartment days later after concern had built from a few days of no communication or response from him in attempts over text and phone calls. He often did this when he was in a bad place and we tried our best to both respect his boundarys and at the same time, protect him. He was 36, an adult that had made his decision so long ago. Nothing could change his mind, and few could ever conceptualize the daily tempest of emotional pain he felt every day of his life. If he was allowed to take his life legally, after carful medical consideration, he could have passed away with his family and friends; not alone with fear and pain. We could have prepared for his passing and everyone involved, especially my Mother could have had much less painful experience.
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Kendra Keahiolalo
Alzhimers runs in my family on both sides, oddly only effecting the women. Two of my grandmas and my great grandma have suffered immensely. Not just from alzhimers alone. My great grandma was violent and tried multiple times to throw herself out of moving cars before she was put into a home where she was heavily sedated for the rest of her 6 years of life. My grandma is still alive after having alzhimers for 13 years now, she is in constant pain, she doesnt want to get out of bed, she cries and cries but if she doesnt get out of bed her legs swell to the point where they split open. She constantly digs into her scalp creating huge wounds. My other grandma was violent and angry but would just sit in her rocking chair crying or spouting nonsense, yelling at anyone who came around. She was 80% blind as well by the time she passed away. They were all cheerful, loving, wonderful women but changed to the complete opposite of who they once were. These are the last memories I have of them, them suffering, violently lashing out, crying and asking why they were/are still here. I will 100% find a way for a death with dignity or similar program, even if I have to travel out of country for it. I myself do not want to suffer that long and I dont want my family to watch me suffer. We choose how we live and we have a right to choose how we die.
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Alzhimers runs in my family on both sides, oddly only effecting the women. Two of my grandmas and my great grandma have suffered immensely. Not just from alzhimers alone. My great grandma was violent and tried multiple times to throw herself out of moving cars before she was put into a home where she was heavily sedated for the rest of her 6 years of life. My grandma is still alive after having alzhimers for 13 years now, she is in constant pain, she doesnt want to get out of bed, she cries and cries but if she doesnt get out of bed her legs swell to the point where they split open. She constantly digs into her scalp creating huge wounds. My other grandma was violent and angry but would just sit in her rocking chair crying or spouting nonsense, yelling at anyone who came around. She was 80% blind as well by the time she passed away. They were all cheerful, loving, wonderful women but changed to the complete opposite of who they once were. These are the last memories I have of them, them suffering, violently lashing out, crying and asking why they were/are still here. I will 100% find a way for a death with dignity or similar program, even if I have to travel out of country for it. I myself do not want to suffer that long and I dont want my family to watch me suffer. We choose how we live and we have a right to choose how we die.
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