Why didn't Greece get Constantinople after World War One? Documentary
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Date: 2022-07-19
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Comments and reviews: 20
Ser
I am Turkish, Greeks earning their independence and having Greece to themselves was right thing to do, just like Arabs having Arabian peninsula to themselves, time of Ottomans was coming to an end as Sultans lost their touch with reality and were sending thousands of Turkish soldiers to die far away from home for centuries.
Time of monarchs and imperials were pretty much dying all over the world and lets face it, WW1 was a conflict between English and German royals who were all related somehow, they dragged the whole world into conflict and thousands died for someone elses war.
Ataturk, if you read his notes, memories and interviews, was against the war and did not want WW1. When he was an officer at Gallipoli he was frustrated and found it ironic that Turks at Gallipoli were fighting under German command while Australians, New Zealanders, Indians and Gurkhas were under English command.
He looked at thousands of dead from both sides at Gallipoli and told his aide this has to stop.
He was eventually given all command at Gallipoli as his predictions and actions were always on time.
During the great battle of 30th of August, where Greek army was defeated, he praised the bravery of the Greek soldiers and when he inspected the battlefield he noticed lot of dead Greek soldiers were young boys, years later his aide wrote in his diaries that Ataturk uttered to himself, poor boys, who sent you all the way to these lands to die like this?
When he entered the city of Izmir -Smyrna in Greek- which was just abandoned by Greek troops, he came across a Greek flag with some ultra nationalists standing near it, he asked; what is this? They replied; when the King of Greece came here, he stepped on our flag, this is here for you to do the same.
He got very angry and told people; gentlemen, a flag is a nations honor, it cannot be stepped on, the king did a wrong thing, I will not repeat the same mistake, lift it up, fold it and take it away!
People apologized and did what they were told.
After Turkish army won the war of independence and they drew the borders Turkey still has today, his generals came to him and suggested they start another war to capture Greece in the west and Arabian peninsula in the east.
They wanted to restore Ottoman Empire.
Ataturk ordered every general and politician to a meeting and he told them this; gentleman, the war is over. We did not start this war and we will not start another one. Let Greece belong to Greeks and Arabia to Arabs, we will make peace with our former enemies, we will establish trade routes, diplomacy and our countries will flourish.
If we invade Greece, theyll fight us just as hard as we fought them here because this is our home and thats theirs and I am not sending one more Turkish son to die on Arab deserts.
He then invited Greek prime minister to Turkey as well as all other politicians and started the talks for Anzac memorial.
I read from memories of his close friends that he would often evade his personal guards -religious fanatics and traitors wanted him dead- and go to docks to have ouzo with Greek fisherman and chat about life.
He was a military genius but he hated war and unbeknownst to most he actually did not want to stay in power, people kept electing him until he fell sick.
I believe Ataturk broke the pattern of centuries long Endless war between Greeks and Turks by declaring what he called Misak-I Milli which means national borders and explicitly banned any future expansion towards any direction -Ottoman empire never really had permanent borders-, effectively destroying the empire and telling Turks this is your hope now, make it a better place for your children, countries around us are our neighbors, we will never fight anyone again unless we are attacked.
He also broke the hold of centuries old iron hand of religious fanaticism on Turks by having priests read call to prayers in Turkish and educating people about religion and giving women right to elect and get elected.
When he died, the English general who was in command of all allied forces in Gallipoli years ago, put on his uniform and told his friends I am going to say one last goodbye to an honorable foe.
There is a picture of English general standing at attention saluting Ataturks funeral even though he had one leg only.
The lesson I learned from English general, Ataturk and others such as them, is that real soldiers with common sense who saw war hated it and did everything they can to never repeat it while politicians kept using nationalistic feelings for election votes and personal gain.
I live overseas now, my best friends are all Greek, my wife is Australian whose family were ANZACs.
We really need to stop this hate and pointless arguments, there is enough room on this planet for all of us, none of us will live forever anyway.
reply
I am Turkish, Greeks earning their independence and having Greece to themselves was right thing to do, just like Arabs having Arabian peninsula to themselves, time of Ottomans was coming to an end as Sultans lost their touch with reality and were sending thousands of Turkish soldiers to die far away from home for centuries.
Time of monarchs and imperials were pretty much dying all over the world and lets face it, WW1 was a conflict between English and German royals who were all related somehow, they dragged the whole world into conflict and thousands died for someone elses war.
Ataturk, if you read his notes, memories and interviews, was against the war and did not want WW1. When he was an officer at Gallipoli he was frustrated and found it ironic that Turks at Gallipoli were fighting under German command while Australians, New Zealanders, Indians and Gurkhas were under English command.
He looked at thousands of dead from both sides at Gallipoli and told his aide this has to stop.
He was eventually given all command at Gallipoli as his predictions and actions were always on time.
During the great battle of 30th of August, where Greek army was defeated, he praised the bravery of the Greek soldiers and when he inspected the battlefield he noticed lot of dead Greek soldiers were young boys, years later his aide wrote in his diaries that Ataturk uttered to himself, poor boys, who sent you all the way to these lands to die like this?
When he entered the city of Izmir -Smyrna in Greek- which was just abandoned by Greek troops, he came across a Greek flag with some ultra nationalists standing near it, he asked; what is this? They replied; when the King of Greece came here, he stepped on our flag, this is here for you to do the same.
He got very angry and told people; gentlemen, a flag is a nations honor, it cannot be stepped on, the king did a wrong thing, I will not repeat the same mistake, lift it up, fold it and take it away!
People apologized and did what they were told.
After Turkish army won the war of independence and they drew the borders Turkey still has today, his generals came to him and suggested they start another war to capture Greece in the west and Arabian peninsula in the east.
They wanted to restore Ottoman Empire.
Ataturk ordered every general and politician to a meeting and he told them this; gentleman, the war is over. We did not start this war and we will not start another one. Let Greece belong to Greeks and Arabia to Arabs, we will make peace with our former enemies, we will establish trade routes, diplomacy and our countries will flourish.
If we invade Greece, theyll fight us just as hard as we fought them here because this is our home and thats theirs and I am not sending one more Turkish son to die on Arab deserts.
He then invited Greek prime minister to Turkey as well as all other politicians and started the talks for Anzac memorial.
I read from memories of his close friends that he would often evade his personal guards -religious fanatics and traitors wanted him dead- and go to docks to have ouzo with Greek fisherman and chat about life.
He was a military genius but he hated war and unbeknownst to most he actually did not want to stay in power, people kept electing him until he fell sick.
I believe Ataturk broke the pattern of centuries long Endless war between Greeks and Turks by declaring what he called Misak-I Milli which means national borders and explicitly banned any future expansion towards any direction -Ottoman empire never really had permanent borders-, effectively destroying the empire and telling Turks this is your hope now, make it a better place for your children, countries around us are our neighbors, we will never fight anyone again unless we are attacked.
He also broke the hold of centuries old iron hand of religious fanaticism on Turks by having priests read call to prayers in Turkish and educating people about religion and giving women right to elect and get elected.
When he died, the English general who was in command of all allied forces in Gallipoli years ago, put on his uniform and told his friends I am going to say one last goodbye to an honorable foe.
There is a picture of English general standing at attention saluting Ataturks funeral even though he had one leg only.
The lesson I learned from English general, Ataturk and others such as them, is that real soldiers with common sense who saw war hated it and did everything they can to never repeat it while politicians kept using nationalistic feelings for election votes and personal gain.
I live overseas now, my best friends are all Greek, my wife is Australian whose family were ANZACs.
We really need to stop this hate and pointless arguments, there is enough room on this planet for all of us, none of us will live forever anyway.
reply
paper
It's nice to see Greeks and Turks exchanging compliments and agreeing on how politicians on both sides try hard to damage this relationship, but I think it's time to get our feet on the ground:
1.
Greece does not threatens Turkey, the latter does it day in day out and in the most formal way possible: the Turkish president and down to the last one around him within a 1, 000 miles radius. So, no Greek politician tries to damage the relation between the two nations (on this just keep reading.
2.
Turkey occupies half of a European country (Cyprus,
3.
Turkish fighter jets invade the Greek airspace day in day out (last week there were 150 violations and fly overs in one day,
4.
Turkish NAVY invades day in day out the Greek waters in order to dispute Greek sovereignty and sovereign rights,
5.
Turkish politicians openly dispute day in day out Greek sovereignty over half of the Aegean Islands AND EVEN CRETE (last episode was in July 11th 2022, some of them are so ridiculus that they're claiming 2/3 of Crete as Turkish (July 12 2022.
6.
Turkish politicians distribute MAPS depicting half of the Greek islands and Crete annexed by Turkey (last episode was in July 11th 2022, Mr Erdogan's coalition partner in the Government,
7.
Turkey has the largest army in the Mediterranean right on the turkish shores on the Aegean as well as the largest landing fleet only some miles (less than ten) across the same Aegean Islands for which they distribute maps depicting them annexed by Turkey.
Who distributes and presents these maps one might wonder. Mr Erdogan himself to start with. and all below him followed; that is all of them every day.
8.
Turkish politicians ordered force to be used on migrants in order to break the Greek-Turkish border and illegally enter Greece (Feb. 2020. Turkish police was throwing tear gas to the Greek and European forces who defended the Greek (European) borders.
9.
Turkey (ie Turkish politicians) holds a casus belli (a Threat of War) against Greece if the latter implements what every country on this Planet signed and/or implements, except of Turkey: UNCLOS (the Law of the Sea. Casus Belli is officially prohibited by the UN Charter, which curiously (or not) has been signed by everyone on this Planet including. Turkey.
.
.
.
.
Turkish politicans who do all the above and much much more, represent more than 90% of the Turkish electorate.
My point is this: let's talk friendship and mutual respect, yet on the right basis: that is on the +90% of the Turkish voters who APPROVE such behaviors.
Now, who's in for dessert?
reply
It's nice to see Greeks and Turks exchanging compliments and agreeing on how politicians on both sides try hard to damage this relationship, but I think it's time to get our feet on the ground:
1.
Greece does not threatens Turkey, the latter does it day in day out and in the most formal way possible: the Turkish president and down to the last one around him within a 1, 000 miles radius. So, no Greek politician tries to damage the relation between the two nations (on this just keep reading.
2.
Turkey occupies half of a European country (Cyprus,
3.
Turkish fighter jets invade the Greek airspace day in day out (last week there were 150 violations and fly overs in one day,
4.
Turkish NAVY invades day in day out the Greek waters in order to dispute Greek sovereignty and sovereign rights,
5.
Turkish politicians openly dispute day in day out Greek sovereignty over half of the Aegean Islands AND EVEN CRETE (last episode was in July 11th 2022, some of them are so ridiculus that they're claiming 2/3 of Crete as Turkish (July 12 2022.
6.
Turkish politicians distribute MAPS depicting half of the Greek islands and Crete annexed by Turkey (last episode was in July 11th 2022, Mr Erdogan's coalition partner in the Government,
7.
Turkey has the largest army in the Mediterranean right on the turkish shores on the Aegean as well as the largest landing fleet only some miles (less than ten) across the same Aegean Islands for which they distribute maps depicting them annexed by Turkey.
Who distributes and presents these maps one might wonder. Mr Erdogan himself to start with. and all below him followed; that is all of them every day.
8.
Turkish politicians ordered force to be used on migrants in order to break the Greek-Turkish border and illegally enter Greece (Feb. 2020. Turkish police was throwing tear gas to the Greek and European forces who defended the Greek (European) borders.
9.
Turkey (ie Turkish politicians) holds a casus belli (a Threat of War) against Greece if the latter implements what every country on this Planet signed and/or implements, except of Turkey: UNCLOS (the Law of the Sea. Casus Belli is officially prohibited by the UN Charter, which curiously (or not) has been signed by everyone on this Planet including. Turkey.
.
.
.
.
Turkish politicans who do all the above and much much more, represent more than 90% of the Turkish electorate.
My point is this: let's talk friendship and mutual respect, yet on the right basis: that is on the +90% of the Turkish voters who APPROVE such behaviors.
Now, who's in for dessert?
reply
thxnoulis_xain
Also, the main reason why greece didnt get constantinople after ww1 was that they, trying to exploit the fact that turkey was very instable and weakened, they waged war. We actually did very good at first, almost reaching ankara, but in greece war support was constantly falling, so, Prime Minister Venizelos held a referendum, in which the king won, who was more german-aligned, leading in italy, england and france pulling out of their turkish lands and supplying turkey. Combined the King's army incompetence, the very wide front, the lack of supplies and morale, the greek army crumbled, losing the war, hence the treaty of lausanne
reply
Also, the main reason why greece didnt get constantinople after ww1 was that they, trying to exploit the fact that turkey was very instable and weakened, they waged war. We actually did very good at first, almost reaching ankara, but in greece war support was constantly falling, so, Prime Minister Venizelos held a referendum, in which the king won, who was more german-aligned, leading in italy, england and france pulling out of their turkish lands and supplying turkey. Combined the King's army incompetence, the very wide front, the lack of supplies and morale, the greek army crumbled, losing the war, hence the treaty of lausanne
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peter
hmmm so unrest in the local populous and the fact the only claim they had to the city is by connecting themselves to (at that time) a rather historically distant civilizations former claims. sounds a lot like whats happening in the levant, only it was convenient for the west to abandon the greeks in their time of need. you certainly wouldnt find them doing that with the israeli occupiers.
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hmmm so unrest in the local populous and the fact the only claim they had to the city is by connecting themselves to (at that time) a rather historically distant civilizations former claims. sounds a lot like whats happening in the levant, only it was convenient for the west to abandon the greeks in their time of need. you certainly wouldnt find them doing that with the israeli occupiers.
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Matthew
One small error: Constantinople was capital of the eastern Roman Empire which never included the territories of Western Europe. It briefly held Rome itself but mostly it was the territories where Greek was the official language, i. e. eastern Europe, the Middle East and north Africa. Britain and France were never part of the ERE.
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One small error: Constantinople was capital of the eastern Roman Empire which never included the territories of Western Europe. It briefly held Rome itself but mostly it was the territories where Greek was the official language, i. e. eastern Europe, the Middle East and north Africa. Britain and France were never part of the ERE.
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Bahadir
Smart planning on not giving the Greeks Istanbul. Theyd just lose it again after another invasion I mean they practically only exist because other countries allow them to. The Turks tho took no nonsense and made it obvious that they were here to stay and that they take what they want and what they wanted was all there land back
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Smart planning on not giving the Greeks Istanbul. Theyd just lose it again after another invasion I mean they practically only exist because other countries allow them to. The Turks tho took no nonsense and made it obvious that they were here to stay and that they take what they want and what they wanted was all there land back
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andy1992uk
Greece is the continuation of the byzantine empire? The proof? Language and religion. it is the exact same as the Eastern roman empire, the same language written all over agia sofia. It is their religion which build the cathedral. Modern Greeks called themselves Romans up until the start of independence in 1800s.
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Greece is the continuation of the byzantine empire? The proof? Language and religion. it is the exact same as the Eastern roman empire, the same language written all over agia sofia. It is their religion which build the cathedral. Modern Greeks called themselves Romans up until the start of independence in 1800s.
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Yunus
I m not greeks enemy and greeks is not my enemy. Our governments may want fight for their thrones but Turkish nation will not give a opportunity to fight our brothers. We already fought a century ago and we won and established a republic from monarchy. But both side lost too much thing.
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I m not greeks enemy and greeks is not my enemy. Our governments may want fight for their thrones but Turkish nation will not give a opportunity to fight our brothers. We already fought a century ago and we won and established a republic from monarchy. But both side lost too much thing.
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Georged811
Not the Megali Plan, but the Megali Idea Plan, meaning Great Idea. The king of Greece, Constantine I, wasn't German, but Danish, even though he was an ardent supporter of Germany.
Other than that, that's a nice overview.
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Not the Megali Plan, but the Megali Idea Plan, meaning Great Idea. The king of Greece, Constantine I, wasn't German, but Danish, even though he was an ardent supporter of Germany.
Other than that, that's a nice overview.
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HeavyAssaultMode
Easy, sensible Greek people wouldn't want it cuz then there'd be another war with Turkey. Those haven't turned out too well for the Greeks over the past 1000 years.
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Easy, sensible Greek people wouldn't want it cuz then there'd be another war with Turkey. Those haven't turned out too well for the Greeks over the past 1000 years.
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Talat
We have no problem with the Greek people, we are neighbors and we have been living hundreds of years together. Love from Turkey, do not believe what politicians say.
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We have no problem with the Greek people, we are neighbors and we have been living hundreds of years together. Love from Turkey, do not believe what politicians say.
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Tony
actually, I think the Turks renamed the city Istanbul not Constantinople as for why they would do that I don't know perhaps they just liked it better that way.
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actually, I think the Turks renamed the city Istanbul not Constantinople as for why they would do that I don't know perhaps they just liked it better that way.
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gamevalor
One of the biggest mistakes of western powers was giving all of Anatolia to 1 country. The west lost influence in the middle-east because it lost Anatolia.
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One of the biggest mistakes of western powers was giving all of Anatolia to 1 country. The west lost influence in the middle-east because it lost Anatolia.
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Rahul
Simply politically convenient to the capitalist Nations. They can even sell their own brothers and blame third world countries for law and order situation.
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Simply politically convenient to the capitalist Nations. They can even sell their own brothers and blame third world countries for law and order situation.
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education
Turks when they commit 2 genocides in less than 10 years:
Also Turks when someone calls the the city that they conquered it's originally name:
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Turks when they commit 2 genocides in less than 10 years:
Also Turks when someone calls the the city that they conquered it's originally name:
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bestekaregemen
because the greeks are people who lived and lives in country called greece. they have never lived or even been to istanbul before lol
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because the greeks are people who lived and lives in country called greece. they have never lived or even been to istanbul before lol
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Lukas
1: 26 berlin london paris vienna st petersburg moscow peking tokyo washington dc new york constantinople/istanbull, what are the other stars?
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1: 26 berlin london paris vienna st petersburg moscow peking tokyo washington dc new york constantinople/istanbull, what are the other stars?
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Emo
Why Greece doesnt get Constantinople after WW1?
1453 Fatih Sultan Mehmet
2023 Recep Tayyip Erdogan
They should stop talking trash.
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Why Greece doesnt get Constantinople after WW1?
1453 Fatih Sultan Mehmet
2023 Recep Tayyip Erdogan
They should stop talking trash.
reply
peddersoldchap
It's incredible that one of the most important cities of Christendom is still in muslim hands in the XXI century.
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It's incredible that one of the most important cities of Christendom is still in muslim hands in the XXI century.
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Coda
I think a cool outcome would have been to have Istanbul become its own city. Something about city-states is totally rad.
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I think a cool outcome would have been to have Istanbul become its own city. Something about city-states is totally rad.
reply
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