Why wasn't France a part of the Holy Roman Empire (Short Animated Documentary)
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Date: 2025-03-01
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Comments and reviews: 20
Grothgerek
I find it a bit misleading, to say that the HRE was German and not Frankish. The Franks were German too, and later separated to become whats nowadays known as Dutch (which comes from the german word for german deutsch/diutisc. Just to clarify, the term german refered to people talking a german tongue (language ethnic. There was no concept of a german identity at that time.
The Karolingians were of frankish ancestry, but with their end, the new kingdom essentially became french. While the germanic elements had some influence, the court language was still mostly latin in this regions, and the population was of latin and gaul heritage, with no roots to the Franks.
Essentially both countries picked a prestigious title despite having no connection with it. The Holy Roman Empire wasnt Roman, and the Frankish Empire wasnt Frankish.
The Holy Roman Empire had the bigger claim to Charlemagne, given that they controlled the original land from where the Franks started their conquest, and their closer cultural identity.
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I find it a bit misleading, to say that the HRE was German and not Frankish. The Franks were German too, and later separated to become whats nowadays known as Dutch (which comes from the german word for german deutsch/diutisc. Just to clarify, the term german refered to people talking a german tongue (language ethnic. There was no concept of a german identity at that time.
The Karolingians were of frankish ancestry, but with their end, the new kingdom essentially became french. While the germanic elements had some influence, the court language was still mostly latin in this regions, and the population was of latin and gaul heritage, with no roots to the Franks.
Essentially both countries picked a prestigious title despite having no connection with it. The Holy Roman Empire wasnt Roman, and the Frankish Empire wasnt Frankish.
The Holy Roman Empire had the bigger claim to Charlemagne, given that they controlled the original land from where the Franks started their conquest, and their closer cultural identity.
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CommonSwindler
We all view the medieval HRE entirely incorrectly. The medieval Holy Roman Emperors, especially the particularly powerful ones like Otto the Great, Otto III, Barbarossa, Henry VI, and the brilliant Frederick II, were contemporarily viewed as Western Caesars: the preeminent rulers of a sort of confederation of kings and princes of Europe, essentially Presidents of Europe’. Consider one instance of this in action. Witness how Louis IX consistently rebuffed Innocent IV in his struggle against Frederick II; Louis IX always scrupulously rendered unto Caesar and forbade Innocent to preach an anti-Hohenstaufen crusade in his lands or take refuge in the dominions of the French crown.
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We all view the medieval HRE entirely incorrectly. The medieval Holy Roman Emperors, especially the particularly powerful ones like Otto the Great, Otto III, Barbarossa, Henry VI, and the brilliant Frederick II, were contemporarily viewed as Western Caesars: the preeminent rulers of a sort of confederation of kings and princes of Europe, essentially Presidents of Europe’. Consider one instance of this in action. Witness how Louis IX consistently rebuffed Innocent IV in his struggle against Frederick II; Louis IX always scrupulously rendered unto Caesar and forbade Innocent to preach an anti-Hohenstaufen crusade in his lands or take refuge in the dominions of the French crown.
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adrianchezorts
Dear Latinamericans, as a Spaniard myself I shall bestow unto you these lovely words:
3: 01 THERE is where your gold went so, please, could you stop asking us for it Because the average Spaniard didn't see a gram out of it. First, it was wasted on Charles I (a Dutchman) becoming H. R. Emperor, and later, on paying the long-lasting war effort against the Protestant revolts which exhausted our country to an unbearable level of misery. Now, seeing how much that hell of a title hurt our country, I really wish the French had taken it instead.
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Dear Latinamericans, as a Spaniard myself I shall bestow unto you these lovely words:
3: 01 THERE is where your gold went so, please, could you stop asking us for it Because the average Spaniard didn't see a gram out of it. First, it was wasted on Charles I (a Dutchman) becoming H. R. Emperor, and later, on paying the long-lasting war effort against the Protestant revolts which exhausted our country to an unbearable level of misery. Now, seeing how much that hell of a title hurt our country, I really wish the French had taken it instead.
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xenotypos
Charlemagne's empire was very different from the HRE (notably in terms of structure, and certainly wasn't named the HRE. That's just that Otto when creating the HRE CLAIMED to be the successor of Charlemagne. Well to be fair it was technically the empire, recognized by the pope. But it was a different empire. Just as Charlemagne's empire itself (called today the Carolingian empire, was different from the Roman empire even if it was called back then the Roman empire.
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Charlemagne's empire was very different from the HRE (notably in terms of structure, and certainly wasn't named the HRE. That's just that Otto when creating the HRE CLAIMED to be the successor of Charlemagne. Well to be fair it was technically the empire, recognized by the pope. But it was a different empire. Just as Charlemagne's empire itself (called today the Carolingian empire, was different from the Roman empire even if it was called back then the Roman empire.
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Afrologist
People should keep in mind that the HRE was just a more decentralized version of the same feudal system that existed all throughout Europe. Dividing into duchies & principalities to make border gore is redundant; it was considered a single political entity, until it was dissolved. England, France, Castille, & virtually every other Western European monarchy functioned similarly, with only the actual minutia & processes with electors adding some nuance.
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People should keep in mind that the HRE was just a more decentralized version of the same feudal system that existed all throughout Europe. Dividing into duchies & principalities to make border gore is redundant; it was considered a single political entity, until it was dissolved. England, France, Castille, & virtually every other Western European monarchy functioned similarly, with only the actual minutia & processes with electors adding some nuance.
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ryansearle6157
An important distinction here is that Charlemagne was actually crowned just Roman Emperor, as in the successor to the Roman Empire (the Byzantines were still around at this point so it was controversial and contested) The holy part didn’t come until Otto I got tired of trying to win the pope’s approval to be crowned and decided to instead make the title intrinsically holy so that he wouldn’t need to appease the pope.
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An important distinction here is that Charlemagne was actually crowned just Roman Emperor, as in the successor to the Roman Empire (the Byzantines were still around at this point so it was controversial and contested) The holy part didn’t come until Otto I got tired of trying to win the pope’s approval to be crowned and decided to instead make the title intrinsically holy so that he wouldn’t need to appease the pope.
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history_matters
I dislike the sharp distinction the video makes between Franks and Germans. The Franks were a Germanic tribe, their heartland was the Low Countries and the France-Germany border, and their language was similar to Dutch. They would eventually assiminate into the surronding Roman culture, but when we say Franks instead of French, we mean a Germanic tribe separate from the Gallo-Roman populace.
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I dislike the sharp distinction the video makes between Franks and Germans. The Franks were a Germanic tribe, their heartland was the Low Countries and the France-Germany border, and their language was similar to Dutch. They would eventually assiminate into the surronding Roman culture, but when we say Franks instead of French, we mean a Germanic tribe separate from the Gallo-Roman populace.
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TheGeneralOf501
A mistake you make is that you see the Franks as French and only Bavarians, Swabians and Saxons as German. But the Franks and Salians were also a Germanic tribe just like the ones mentioned who settled along the Rhine in Roman times. Most of the Frankish migrated a bit east during the early Middle Ages, therefor the northern part of Bavaria is still called Franconia to this day.
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A mistake you make is that you see the Franks as French and only Bavarians, Swabians and Saxons as German. But the Franks and Salians were also a Germanic tribe just like the ones mentioned who settled along the Rhine in Roman times. Most of the Frankish migrated a bit east during the early Middle Ages, therefor the northern part of Bavaria is still called Franconia to this day.
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Paul83121
Apologies for being a nitpicking prick, but I have to mention: You're using a map that includes the Flevopolder in the Netherlands. That's manmade land that wasn't there before the 1960's. I noticed it in your last video as well. It's minor, but it's a bit like having a map with the Spanish colonies in the Americas with the Panama canal dug out on it
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Apologies for being a nitpicking prick, but I have to mention: You're using a map that includes the Flevopolder in the Netherlands. That's manmade land that wasn't there before the 1960's. I noticed it in your last video as well. It's minor, but it's a bit like having a map with the Spanish colonies in the Americas with the Panama canal dug out on it
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noahScott-r3o
I came to the Lord asking for his blessings as a single parent because raising my son (Joel) was an act of courage despite all the challenges. And the Lord answered my prayers with a benefiting income of $31, 000 every month. To God be the glory. Joel is in school and life's been fair lately.
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I came to the Lord asking for his blessings as a single parent because raising my son (Joel) was an act of courage despite all the challenges. And the Lord answered my prayers with a benefiting income of $31, 000 every month. To God be the glory. Joel is in school and life's been fair lately.
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cannibalia
Are you sure Charlemagne was crowned Holy Roman emperor in 800 I can find sources stating he was crowned emperor of the west, or emperor of the franks, but i can't find anything about the holy roman empire. From what i see, the hre was only created more than a century later in 962
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Are you sure Charlemagne was crowned Holy Roman emperor in 800 I can find sources stating he was crowned emperor of the west, or emperor of the franks, but i can't find anything about the holy roman empire. From what i see, the hre was only created more than a century later in 962
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Chrysobubulle
In french the HRE is known as the Germanic Holy Roman Empire (Saint Empire Romain Germanique.
Add this to Voltaire’s famous sentence about the empire being neither holy nor roman nor an empire, and you can see how this thing was really viewed from France
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In french the HRE is known as the Germanic Holy Roman Empire (Saint Empire Romain Germanique.
Add this to Voltaire’s famous sentence about the empire being neither holy nor roman nor an empire, and you can see how this thing was really viewed from France
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history_matters
The HRE was an empire in some, but it was nor Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. It could never centerlise and the lords competed for power and gave lip service to the king and in turn the king competed for power with the pope.
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The HRE was an empire in some, but it was nor Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire. It could never centerlise and the lords competed for power and gave lip service to the king and in turn the king competed for power with the pope.
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history_matters
1: 15 Thanks for showing the whole sequence of fragmentation/reunifications/border shifts of the Carolingian Empire, instead of the typical Treaty of Verdun split it in three you normally see concerning this period.
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1: 15 Thanks for showing the whole sequence of fragmentation/reunifications/border shifts of the Carolingian Empire, instead of the typical Treaty of Verdun split it in three you normally see concerning this period.
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history_matters
Franks are culturally German to whatever extent such a thing can be said to have existed at the time. It’s the ethnic group of central Germany and even the Netherlands prior to the ethnogenesis of the Dutch.
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Franks are culturally German to whatever extent such a thing can be said to have existed at the time. It’s the ethnic group of central Germany and even the Netherlands prior to the ethnogenesis of the Dutch.
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history_matters
This is a very weird thing to ask but I'm interested do you know why Bulgaria was allowed to keep southern Dobruja after world war 2 despite losing but Hungary wasn't allowed to keep Northern Transylvanian
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This is a very weird thing to ask but I'm interested do you know why Bulgaria was allowed to keep southern Dobruja after world war 2 despite losing but Hungary wasn't allowed to keep Northern Transylvanian
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edwardblair4096
Also, wasn't one of the titles of the HR Emperor King of the Germans Or was it Emperor of the Germans (It's been a while since I read the Wikipedia article)
That doesn't sound very French to me.
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Also, wasn't one of the titles of the HR Emperor King of the Germans Or was it Emperor of the Germans (It's been a while since I read the Wikipedia article)
That doesn't sound very French to me.
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DasWarVorbestimmt
Charlemagne was never called Holy Roman Emperor. Even Otto the Great wasn't. The wording holy empire first appears during the time of Friedrich I. Barbarossa in the late 12th century.
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Charlemagne was never called Holy Roman Emperor. Even Otto the Great wasn't. The wording holy empire first appears during the time of Friedrich I. Barbarossa in the late 12th century.
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dandy-lions5788
Well the second time it came close to unifying was during Napoleon, who came so close to taking the crown that Emperor Francis II abolished the title rather than lose it to a Frenchman
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Well the second time it came close to unifying was during Napoleon, who came so close to taking the crown that Emperor Francis II abolished the title rather than lose it to a Frenchman
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TYTARMY
I don't need to watch this. The reason the Romans could not take France is because there was this small village with a druid who invented a magic potion that gave his people super strength.
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I don't need to watch this. The reason the Romans could not take France is because there was this small village with a druid who invented a magic potion that gave his people super strength.
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