What if the U. S. won the Vietnam War?
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Date: 2022-07-15
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Comments and reviews: 9
Don
The whole basis of American involvement in Vietnam was flawed, backing up a massively corrupt military Junta in the south simply because they're weren't Communist. The South Vietnamese spent just as much time fighting among themselves as they did against the Communists.
American strategy was also flawed, they didn't really work with the Vietnamese peasants and give them a viable alternative to communism, the so called 'hearts and minds' strategy could have really helped calm the insurgency.
Next, American hands were tied for much of the war by lack of political will to directly attack North Vietnam for fear of killing Chinese or Soviet personnel and creating a diplomatic incident.
The whole thing stunk from start to finish despite the skill and courage of the American military. This more than anything else doomed the American war effort, bad publicity. drafting, a fundamentally flawed cause and they didn't win.
If they had somehow overcome all of these things I agree the world would be even more of America's play thing that it already is with military intervention wherever communism raised it's head. Maybe if this was the case the Soviets wouldn't have invaded Afghanistan and not set in train the events leading to 9/11, the invasion, Iraq and ISIS?
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The whole basis of American involvement in Vietnam was flawed, backing up a massively corrupt military Junta in the south simply because they're weren't Communist. The South Vietnamese spent just as much time fighting among themselves as they did against the Communists.
American strategy was also flawed, they didn't really work with the Vietnamese peasants and give them a viable alternative to communism, the so called 'hearts and minds' strategy could have really helped calm the insurgency.
Next, American hands were tied for much of the war by lack of political will to directly attack North Vietnam for fear of killing Chinese or Soviet personnel and creating a diplomatic incident.
The whole thing stunk from start to finish despite the skill and courage of the American military. This more than anything else doomed the American war effort, bad publicity. drafting, a fundamentally flawed cause and they didn't win.
If they had somehow overcome all of these things I agree the world would be even more of America's play thing that it already is with military intervention wherever communism raised it's head. Maybe if this was the case the Soviets wouldn't have invaded Afghanistan and not set in train the events leading to 9/11, the invasion, Iraq and ISIS?
reply
Alex
I believe as Communism collapses in Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union would want Cuba to take over and crush all uprisings and prevent the Fall of the Berlin Wall, and then Cuba would also threaten to invade the United States. In early January of 1989 President Ronald Reagan conducts a U. S. Invasion Of Cuba overthrows the Cuban Government and Cuba would cease to exist as a Nation. Fidel Castro would beg the Soviet Union to send troops in but would refuse. Several U. S. Troops engage and eliminate Fidel Castro in a Gunfight right after Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev hangs up on Castro. The Invasion would go by quickly. And the United States would win. On January 18, 1989 The United States would Annex Cuba, making Cuba part of the United States of America. Cuba would be Part of the State of Florida. And the Tiananmen Square Massacre, Fall Of Communism In Eastern Europe, Fall Of Berlin Wall, Romanian Revolution, West and East Germany reuniting And Bulgaria and Albania overthrowing Communism, The Gulf War, The Collapse Of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavian War, Splitting Of Czechoslovakia, Rodney King Riots, and Bill Clinton defeating George HW Bush and Ross Perot in 1992, would still happen the same exact way
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I believe as Communism collapses in Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union would want Cuba to take over and crush all uprisings and prevent the Fall of the Berlin Wall, and then Cuba would also threaten to invade the United States. In early January of 1989 President Ronald Reagan conducts a U. S. Invasion Of Cuba overthrows the Cuban Government and Cuba would cease to exist as a Nation. Fidel Castro would beg the Soviet Union to send troops in but would refuse. Several U. S. Troops engage and eliminate Fidel Castro in a Gunfight right after Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev hangs up on Castro. The Invasion would go by quickly. And the United States would win. On January 18, 1989 The United States would Annex Cuba, making Cuba part of the United States of America. Cuba would be Part of the State of Florida. And the Tiananmen Square Massacre, Fall Of Communism In Eastern Europe, Fall Of Berlin Wall, Romanian Revolution, West and East Germany reuniting And Bulgaria and Albania overthrowing Communism, The Gulf War, The Collapse Of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavian War, Splitting Of Czechoslovakia, Rodney King Riots, and Bill Clinton defeating George HW Bush and Ross Perot in 1992, would still happen the same exact way
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Mel
Also no Nixon. LBJ gets to roll out his Great Society to the full which would drastically change the domestic situation since the U. S wasn't sending vast sums down the rat hole of Vietnam. Also the youth energy of the Baby Boomers may well have poured even more into the Peace Corps. Also, you underestimate the other animating force of the hippies, the civil rights and feminist movements of the time. Those may not have had as dramatic an organizing effect, but to say that they wouldn't have become political is incorrect. They already were. The reason anti-war activism took off so quickly was because many of those young people had already been involved in the civil rights movement. Also, the Apollo program would have continued and we would have seen a much longer and more robust space program as another way for us to compete with the soviets. It's even possible the the cursed Ronald Reagan may never have come to power and a more moderate form of Republican and Democratic party politics may have continued right up to the present day, with swings between a center left and center right party rather than what we have now.
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Also no Nixon. LBJ gets to roll out his Great Society to the full which would drastically change the domestic situation since the U. S wasn't sending vast sums down the rat hole of Vietnam. Also the youth energy of the Baby Boomers may well have poured even more into the Peace Corps. Also, you underestimate the other animating force of the hippies, the civil rights and feminist movements of the time. Those may not have had as dramatic an organizing effect, but to say that they wouldn't have become political is incorrect. They already were. The reason anti-war activism took off so quickly was because many of those young people had already been involved in the civil rights movement. Also, the Apollo program would have continued and we would have seen a much longer and more robust space program as another way for us to compete with the soviets. It's even possible the the cursed Ronald Reagan may never have come to power and a more moderate form of Republican and Democratic party politics may have continued right up to the present day, with swings between a center left and center right party rather than what we have now.
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Fuss
I'm surprised not a lot of recent comments are discussing how controversial it maybe for the United States to intervene in the Ogaden War to fight along with Communist Somalia and Ogaden Somali rebels against Communist Ethiopia. I mean if United States wins the Vietnam War with their anti-communist allies, then the free press during the Vietnam War may likely be able to do free press coverages of the Ogden War while it happens. The free press coverages of how bad the Vietnam War may have not make the USA government think of censorship of war coverages yet, since they win the Vietnam War. Free press may show a lot of what happens with the Ogden War if the United States intervenes to fight along with Communist Somalia to invade Communist Ethiopia. I don't think most Americans maybe happy about their government's military fighting alongside with Communist Somalia to invade another country. Becoming an American aggression invasion like the 2003 invasion of Iraq in our timeline, since the USA maybe view as an aggressor helping another aggressor which Communist Somalia was invading Communist Ethiopia.
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I'm surprised not a lot of recent comments are discussing how controversial it maybe for the United States to intervene in the Ogaden War to fight along with Communist Somalia and Ogaden Somali rebels against Communist Ethiopia. I mean if United States wins the Vietnam War with their anti-communist allies, then the free press during the Vietnam War may likely be able to do free press coverages of the Ogden War while it happens. The free press coverages of how bad the Vietnam War may have not make the USA government think of censorship of war coverages yet, since they win the Vietnam War. Free press may show a lot of what happens with the Ogden War if the United States intervenes to fight along with Communist Somalia to invade Communist Ethiopia. I don't think most Americans maybe happy about their government's military fighting alongside with Communist Somalia to invade another country. Becoming an American aggression invasion like the 2003 invasion of Iraq in our timeline, since the USA maybe view as an aggressor helping another aggressor which Communist Somalia was invading Communist Ethiopia.
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Biko
It is poor academic work and poor reasoning to conclude that the US lost in Vietnam, a cost for the victory is more relevant (that can be very high, particularly if one was directly involved)
The US aggregate objective was to prevent the domino effect. The domino effect never occurred. It will never be known if the cost the US paid stopped the spread of communism, it may have. In aggregate, it was a US victory.
It can be only argued the outcome could have been accomplished with less cost, or the method was not robust enough to apply to future situations. Either of those questions are better answered by someone who was there.
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It is poor academic work and poor reasoning to conclude that the US lost in Vietnam, a cost for the victory is more relevant (that can be very high, particularly if one was directly involved)
The US aggregate objective was to prevent the domino effect. The domino effect never occurred. It will never be known if the cost the US paid stopped the spread of communism, it may have. In aggregate, it was a US victory.
It can be only argued the outcome could have been accomplished with less cost, or the method was not robust enough to apply to future situations. Either of those questions are better answered by someone who was there.
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Isaac
Everyone talks about the Domino Theory as if it was a paranoid conspiracy theory--after teaching our unit on Vietnam, my American History teacher was incredulous that I still believed it was true! But what was the Domino Theory? If the US fails to keep South Vietnam from going Communist, then Laos and Cambodia will become Communist thereafter. Well, the US _did_ fail to keep the Communists from victory over South Vietnam, and thereafter, Laos and Cambodia _did_ become Communist! So, way to go disproving it. Yay, history!
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Everyone talks about the Domino Theory as if it was a paranoid conspiracy theory--after teaching our unit on Vietnam, my American History teacher was incredulous that I still believed it was true! But what was the Domino Theory? If the US fails to keep South Vietnam from going Communist, then Laos and Cambodia will become Communist thereafter. Well, the US _did_ fail to keep the Communists from victory over South Vietnam, and thereafter, Laos and Cambodia _did_ become Communist! So, way to go disproving it. Yay, history!
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Isaac
3: 12 2nd World Nation. The Second World were those countries allied with the Soviet Union, not simply from the middle-economic stratum. The First World was allied with the United States, and the Third World was everybody left over. Since most of the Third World countries were poor and underdeveloped (except for Switzerland and Austria, the richest Third World nations, the designation grew a _connotation_ of poor and underdeveloped, whence his incorrect interpretation of Second World.
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3: 12 2nd World Nation. The Second World were those countries allied with the Soviet Union, not simply from the middle-economic stratum. The First World was allied with the United States, and the Third World was everybody left over. Since most of the Third World countries were poor and underdeveloped (except for Switzerland and Austria, the richest Third World nations, the designation grew a _connotation_ of poor and underdeveloped, whence his incorrect interpretation of Second World.
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West
. The US won the Vietnam War. The aim of the US was to protect the south from the communist north. They did that very thing and then extracted themselves from the region with the promise that they would support the south with military hardware and training plus substantial economic aid. The Democrat controlled congress defunded the plan leaving the south in the lurch and at the mercy of the north which immediately resumed hostilities and easily overran the south.
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. The US won the Vietnam War. The aim of the US was to protect the south from the communist north. They did that very thing and then extracted themselves from the region with the promise that they would support the south with military hardware and training plus substantial economic aid. The Democrat controlled congress defunded the plan leaving the south in the lurch and at the mercy of the north which immediately resumed hostilities and easily overran the south.
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Jessica
The U. S would have won if they did what they did to the Japanese during WW2. That being fire bombing many civilian areas or basically bombing the shit out of the country no matter what they are civilian, industrial or military no matter they all would get bombed no matter who would have been affected.
Not saying it's justify to do such a thing, but it would be much more effective than trying to make war more non-brutal
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The U. S would have won if they did what they did to the Japanese during WW2. That being fire bombing many civilian areas or basically bombing the shit out of the country no matter what they are civilian, industrial or military no matter they all would get bombed no matter who would have been affected.
Not saying it's justify to do such a thing, but it would be much more effective than trying to make war more non-brutal
reply
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