What if Charlemagne Never Existed?
video description
If Germany and Italy was unified in the Early Middle ages, it could have serious consequences, maybe they will allies against France in the 100 years war, for esamples.
The development of Italy would be unpredictable, if the marcantile class emerge in Italy as it did in the italian city states, if It did, Italy would be able of controlling2most of the Mediterrean Trade, turning the Bizantine Empire in a Clienti State, maybe even colonizing Tunisia, Tripolitania and Egypt during the crusade, they could be able of controlling2most the Gibilterra zone and some basis in Morocco and Middle Atlantico, making theme a member of the partition of the New World, and if they had a mercantile capitalistico economy, they would likely be English stiles ruler, so Italian America would be a Rich and powerful region after independece, also, with al these condition, Italy could be the second country to experience Idustrial Revolution, after England, thus Changing forever the Balance of power.
Or maybe they will Not, and after the discover of America Italy would fall into a Dark Age, Who know?
Date: 2022-07-15
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Comments and reviews: 9
HUNdAntae
1, Heribert Illig says Charles the Great along with a mere 300 yrs of history only exists in a handful of codexes.
2, where did you get your information about Hungarians? Chaucescu's inner chamber? Croatia wasnt oppressed at all Croatia and Hungary was in personal union.
Also the claim that the magyars would've been crushed by the pechenegs is total bs. A military power that occupied the whole Charpatian Basin (which is the most fertile and most defendable region of Europe) within 5 years, lead military campaigns all over Europe for a good 50 years, and completely destroyed an all-European army lead by the Bavarians in 907 at Pressburg even tho outnumbered 3: 1 being eliminated by a nomadic tribe that wasnt even able to establish any kind of state is highly unlikely. Look up raw data and use common sense, dont believe everything on wikipaedia.
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1, Heribert Illig says Charles the Great along with a mere 300 yrs of history only exists in a handful of codexes.
2, where did you get your information about Hungarians? Chaucescu's inner chamber? Croatia wasnt oppressed at all Croatia and Hungary was in personal union.
Also the claim that the magyars would've been crushed by the pechenegs is total bs. A military power that occupied the whole Charpatian Basin (which is the most fertile and most defendable region of Europe) within 5 years, lead military campaigns all over Europe for a good 50 years, and completely destroyed an all-European army lead by the Bavarians in 907 at Pressburg even tho outnumbered 3: 1 being eliminated by a nomadic tribe that wasnt even able to establish any kind of state is highly unlikely. Look up raw data and use common sense, dont believe everything on wikipaedia.
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joechill
Yeah, playing when the world stop making sense mod of crusader kings II since its start after fall of western rome, i start as celtic and create united gaul kingdom and beat franks back to their german land, now i manually put everything in course of our timeline since world feels to german(saxon, alleman, GOTHS everywhere, invite the various nomad khagan to settle in east europe becuase slav being pussy and not doing jack shit, trying to recreate conquest of justinian and invasion of lombard, now i waiting for muslim to arise meanwhile i trying to slavize the balkan but try to keep illyrian alive, so mainly no croats only serbs and bulgar maybe in space around danube i can put more slav until the magyar arrive
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Yeah, playing when the world stop making sense mod of crusader kings II since its start after fall of western rome, i start as celtic and create united gaul kingdom and beat franks back to their german land, now i manually put everything in course of our timeline since world feels to german(saxon, alleman, GOTHS everywhere, invite the various nomad khagan to settle in east europe becuase slav being pussy and not doing jack shit, trying to recreate conquest of justinian and invasion of lombard, now i waiting for muslim to arise meanwhile i trying to slavize the balkan but try to keep illyrian alive, so mainly no croats only serbs and bulgar maybe in space around danube i can put more slav until the magyar arrive
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Kori
Another thing: Charlemagne was NOT a great King. He was a monster. He was capable of controlling the lands under his brutality but that's all. Also assuming that Pagans would convert( Lots only converted because monsters like Charlemagne forced them to at the point of a sword) is wrong. We will never truly know how Paganism would have turned out if Charlemagne wasn't around. This video does bring up good points but it is another disappointing bias filled propaganda piece.
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Another thing: Charlemagne was NOT a great King. He was a monster. He was capable of controlling the lands under his brutality but that's all. Also assuming that Pagans would convert( Lots only converted because monsters like Charlemagne forced them to at the point of a sword) is wrong. We will never truly know how Paganism would have turned out if Charlemagne wasn't around. This video does bring up good points but it is another disappointing bias filled propaganda piece.
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Ducasx
Great video even if it's 4 years old. About Venice, it would still exists since it wasn't under lombard control (it was byzantine, then it got away and became it's own republic. In this timeline it'd be the only mercantile republic in Italy since Pisa and Genova (Genua) were under the lombards and Amalfi was under the byzantine. Although the only influence it'd have in Italy would be around the lagoon (unlike our timeline where they controlled much of the Triveneto.
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Great video even if it's 4 years old. About Venice, it would still exists since it wasn't under lombard control (it was byzantine, then it got away and became it's own republic. In this timeline it'd be the only mercantile republic in Italy since Pisa and Genova (Genua) were under the lombards and Amalfi was under the byzantine. Although the only influence it'd have in Italy would be around the lagoon (unlike our timeline where they controlled much of the Triveneto.
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TheCroatianMapper
I have an idea for you What if Hungary never conquered Croatia My opinion is that Croatia would become like Venice or stronger because they fought them many times and won would we see a more Croatian mediterranean sea or would we see Croats becoming like the Serbian empire this could mean an alliance between Croats and Byzantis maybe a Greeko-Croat balkan with some Croatian Colonies in Libya or Sicily or Malta
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I have an idea for you What if Hungary never conquered Croatia My opinion is that Croatia would become like Venice or stronger because they fought them many times and won would we see a more Croatian mediterranean sea or would we see Croats becoming like the Serbian empire this could mean an alliance between Croats and Byzantis maybe a Greeko-Croat balkan with some Croatian Colonies in Libya or Sicily or Malta
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Puma
Part of northern Italy remained under the control of the bizantines throughout the period of the Lombards in Italy. Venice was subject of Constantinople but became de facto independent around this period and remained so until Napoleon came along.
The Kingdom of the Lombards didn't have a strong central authority and I wouldn't expect it to survive very long even without Charlemagne intervention.
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Part of northern Italy remained under the control of the bizantines throughout the period of the Lombards in Italy. Venice was subject of Constantinople but became de facto independent around this period and remained so until Napoleon came along.
The Kingdom of the Lombards didn't have a strong central authority and I wouldn't expect it to survive very long even without Charlemagne intervention.
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Joshua
But DISAGREE with the lack of formation of Hungary due to the Maygars continued movement westward. They would have formed Hungary not because their predecessors were weak but because thw area was culturally diverse along with the eastern half being very much weaker in terms of defense than the western half.
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But DISAGREE with the lack of formation of Hungary due to the Maygars continued movement westward. They would have formed Hungary not because their predecessors were weak but because thw area was culturally diverse along with the eastern half being very much weaker in terms of defense than the western half.
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Fulvio
Wait, the Republic of Venice already existed before Charlemagne conquered Italy (they had gained independence from Byzantium about a century prior) and by the time they diverted the crusade they still hadnt tried to expand on mainland Italy at all, so I think that part would stay the same as in our timeline
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Wait, the Republic of Venice already existed before Charlemagne conquered Italy (they had gained independence from Byzantium about a century prior) and by the time they diverted the crusade they still hadnt tried to expand on mainland Italy at all, so I think that part would stay the same as in our timeline
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Pacbandit13
this timeline ignores a lot of things no Charlemagne then there's no Vikings, the papacy would still be under Roman Imperial power. Christianity and thus a pan European identity wouldn't really exist. There would be no Teutonic Knights. Italy would be very different
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this timeline ignores a lot of things no Charlemagne then there's no Vikings, the papacy would still be under Roman Imperial power. Christianity and thus a pan European identity wouldn't really exist. There would be no Teutonic Knights. Italy would be very different
reply
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