Why Modern Dating is Broken
video description
Neo-Arranged Marriage
Imagine a company where one uses an AI to size up one's needs, personality, looks, and qualities. One then signs a legally binding contract that they will agree to marry one of the ten matches they are given or owe the company a large sum of money based on one's annual income, hence backing out would be just as much a burden to a millionaire as it would to a warehouse worker.
Everything changes when there is obligation, and that is what is missing from modern dating. With this system, the obligation is there, it is, however, financial. And yes, it would catch on because it would be the ONE dating system that overwhelmingly results in marriage.
And if this means people just marry without love but only to escape paying the fine? GREAT! Marriages, especially when they are new, were never about love but about obligation. Love comes later after people live together, and that happens when their personalities mesh, and an AI can find personalities that will do that.
Just replace the village matchmaker with an AI and the family, clan, and societal obligation to go through with it with a binding contract. After a few years, such a project would become very popular.
Date: 2023-01-19
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Comments and reviews: 14
LeBlev
I have to say I think the premise of men not being satisfied with their lives in general and dating lives in particular is probably bunk or at least heavily skewed. I'm a couple weeks from being 19 and while I can say I fit the mold of disgusting loser that you talked about, literally every single other guy I know is in a relationship, has a lot of friends, and can socialize fairly well I'd imagine. Of the 20-25 people I know in my age group, I'd say that literally all of them without exception is having a decent go of it, I may not be, but I think I developed some neuroses and just generally fit the stereotype of not developing right so that seems perfectly reasonable. I go to college and everyone there seems extremely happy and well connected, those who stay inside more have networks of online friends and those who don't literally have people over and meet in the hallways of the dorm every single night. For me, and I assume for those like me in the world who fall more in line with what the stereotype of young guys are in this day and age, I think it should be noted that we would all probably be in the same situation regardless of the age in history perhaps the culture too, though I believe that the culture we reside in has made us somewhat unique in that regard.
I guess what point I'm trying to articulate is that as a species we generally put out a certain percentage of individual males who have some combination of genetics and social environment and upbringing that just makes it so that they don't have children and die alone. We have some wiring and setup to our species that natural selection will remove these men, but due to the epigenetic nature of the condition it will prevail again and again, akin to a society that may dominate in its own region being unviable if transplanted into a more competitive area. There just have to be losers.
As someone who traumatized themselves in their childhood, it just makes too much sense to accept that I or anyone in my situation just doesn't really belong in the world and probably the world will be better off for it. It doesn't help to get angry with it unless you actually seek to change your circumstances, so I think the result for most people in this situation and what I'll eventually have to live out is just giving up on the whole thing, I and I assume others like me don't really enjoy being alive so why do more damage to something that won't and probably just isn't meant to get better? I hope God will forgive everyone who seeks forgiveness, but what good is it to support something meant to fail?
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I have to say I think the premise of men not being satisfied with their lives in general and dating lives in particular is probably bunk or at least heavily skewed. I'm a couple weeks from being 19 and while I can say I fit the mold of disgusting loser that you talked about, literally every single other guy I know is in a relationship, has a lot of friends, and can socialize fairly well I'd imagine. Of the 20-25 people I know in my age group, I'd say that literally all of them without exception is having a decent go of it, I may not be, but I think I developed some neuroses and just generally fit the stereotype of not developing right so that seems perfectly reasonable. I go to college and everyone there seems extremely happy and well connected, those who stay inside more have networks of online friends and those who don't literally have people over and meet in the hallways of the dorm every single night. For me, and I assume for those like me in the world who fall more in line with what the stereotype of young guys are in this day and age, I think it should be noted that we would all probably be in the same situation regardless of the age in history perhaps the culture too, though I believe that the culture we reside in has made us somewhat unique in that regard.
I guess what point I'm trying to articulate is that as a species we generally put out a certain percentage of individual males who have some combination of genetics and social environment and upbringing that just makes it so that they don't have children and die alone. We have some wiring and setup to our species that natural selection will remove these men, but due to the epigenetic nature of the condition it will prevail again and again, akin to a society that may dominate in its own region being unviable if transplanted into a more competitive area. There just have to be losers.
As someone who traumatized themselves in their childhood, it just makes too much sense to accept that I or anyone in my situation just doesn't really belong in the world and probably the world will be better off for it. It doesn't help to get angry with it unless you actually seek to change your circumstances, so I think the result for most people in this situation and what I'll eventually have to live out is just giving up on the whole thing, I and I assume others like me don't really enjoy being alive so why do more damage to something that won't and probably just isn't meant to get better? I hope God will forgive everyone who seeks forgiveness, but what good is it to support something meant to fail?
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Fenumbra
Let me preface this by saying I m Gen Z and most of the women I ve been involved with are and enjoy BDSM like activities.
Personally, I find that a lot of girls do want hookups. But they base their measure of whether to date or not, based on their experience.
They typically need to be around me or hang out everyday, or they complain, accuse me of not wanting to be around them, or just accuse me of cheating; simply for asking for a day to myself.
I find that if you tell them anything about your past, they end up using it against you for any argument they re losing.
Another thing, don t argue, it s literally not worth it and there s no real way to win. Which fits well into my next point, if I don t argue, they get enraged and one girl even sent nudes to another guy just to be petty, just for ignoring her instead of arguing.
I ve had some women on dating apps tell me they love me on the first message, some say they love me and it s been like a week or two of just us talking, on the phone.
The women I ve dated have been VERY active, if birth control didn t exist, I would likely have a lot of children. Which I would sort of be okay with.
I ve also met a lot of women of my generation that consume pr0n, I personally am not a fan of it as an industry entirely or any form of escorting or the likes.
I have met women who genuinely told me that they like men who hurt their feelings and desire toxicity in their relationship.
This is merely scratching the surface of these issues.
Most social issues in America could be solved by returning to more traditional standards, less competition between males and females, incentivizing marriages and children with financial benefits.
I don t believe most women desire or even seek to truly provide for themselves, freedoms or the likes.
I believe they desire to be provided for naturally but they re forced to compete against men in the workforce and thus the social environment.
So it becomes a game of manipulation due to the nature of power, the women view it as a game of power and you re eliminating yourself by not mentally exciting her.
Now I don t think women in general need to be gaslighted and all the likes of manipulation, but that in the society we ve created in the west it is necessary.
However, in a more traditional society it s already imbalanced and thus creates advantage for the man where he isn t granted within a civilization like ours.
This creates a natural power play, without toxicity necessary.
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Let me preface this by saying I m Gen Z and most of the women I ve been involved with are and enjoy BDSM like activities.
Personally, I find that a lot of girls do want hookups. But they base their measure of whether to date or not, based on their experience.
They typically need to be around me or hang out everyday, or they complain, accuse me of not wanting to be around them, or just accuse me of cheating; simply for asking for a day to myself.
I find that if you tell them anything about your past, they end up using it against you for any argument they re losing.
Another thing, don t argue, it s literally not worth it and there s no real way to win. Which fits well into my next point, if I don t argue, they get enraged and one girl even sent nudes to another guy just to be petty, just for ignoring her instead of arguing.
I ve had some women on dating apps tell me they love me on the first message, some say they love me and it s been like a week or two of just us talking, on the phone.
The women I ve dated have been VERY active, if birth control didn t exist, I would likely have a lot of children. Which I would sort of be okay with.
I ve also met a lot of women of my generation that consume pr0n, I personally am not a fan of it as an industry entirely or any form of escorting or the likes.
I have met women who genuinely told me that they like men who hurt their feelings and desire toxicity in their relationship.
This is merely scratching the surface of these issues.
Most social issues in America could be solved by returning to more traditional standards, less competition between males and females, incentivizing marriages and children with financial benefits.
I don t believe most women desire or even seek to truly provide for themselves, freedoms or the likes.
I believe they desire to be provided for naturally but they re forced to compete against men in the workforce and thus the social environment.
So it becomes a game of manipulation due to the nature of power, the women view it as a game of power and you re eliminating yourself by not mentally exciting her.
Now I don t think women in general need to be gaslighted and all the likes of manipulation, but that in the society we ve created in the west it is necessary.
However, in a more traditional society it s already imbalanced and thus creates advantage for the man where he isn t granted within a civilization like ours.
This creates a natural power play, without toxicity necessary.
reply
Aspen
57: 14 that s essentially what dune is. When humanity enters its post scarcity phase, there becomes a Darwinian selection to favor the more religious because the less religious don t pass on their genes. The result is humanity looking very Bronze Age despite being much more advanced. America looks like it s ruralizing as people move to cheaper places motivated by the internet and zoom. But I m sure Americas collapse period will start around the early 20th century.
I personally think that not only will Americas final dominant group be Amish, but the civilization that comes from Americas ashes will have a major amish component to the culture. They re small now, but they breed like rabbits and have the potential to do to Americans what whites did to the native Americans simply because they can handle the rural and industrial worlds better. Mormons are outbreeding non Mormons in the west, Muslims are out breeding mostly atheistic Europeans, asia might become a dead zone. I think the next civilizations that develop will be very dune Esque for this reason, very industrial societies with major advances but rabidly religious and ideological, strange amalgamations of our past and future because we have forgotten so much of our past that it s killing us.
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57: 14 that s essentially what dune is. When humanity enters its post scarcity phase, there becomes a Darwinian selection to favor the more religious because the less religious don t pass on their genes. The result is humanity looking very Bronze Age despite being much more advanced. America looks like it s ruralizing as people move to cheaper places motivated by the internet and zoom. But I m sure Americas collapse period will start around the early 20th century.
I personally think that not only will Americas final dominant group be Amish, but the civilization that comes from Americas ashes will have a major amish component to the culture. They re small now, but they breed like rabbits and have the potential to do to Americans what whites did to the native Americans simply because they can handle the rural and industrial worlds better. Mormons are outbreeding non Mormons in the west, Muslims are out breeding mostly atheistic Europeans, asia might become a dead zone. I think the next civilizations that develop will be very dune Esque for this reason, very industrial societies with major advances but rabidly religious and ideological, strange amalgamations of our past and future because we have forgotten so much of our past that it s killing us.
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risker34
Something that I have never seen anyone talk about is how when many gen z and millennials were in school it was common, at least in the schools that I attended, for teachers to quite blatantly tell the girls in the class about the struggles and achievements of first and second wave feminism and then demand that the girls explain how they were going to carry the torch forward. But it was a lot less clear where they d take it, all of the big and flashy things had been done by their mothers and grandmothers so they had the pressure to be the next major wave of feminism but not the opportunity.
At the same time this was during the college r pe culture moral panic that briefly swept the country until it was no longer useful. During this it literally felt like every single person in an authority position from parents to teachers to politicians were telling girls that someday, no way to know when, a random guy you probably haven t even met yet is going to do horrible things to you and might even kill you and theres nothing you can do to stop it. It s guaranteed to happen and no matter how much you try you can t avoid it or fight it and then these people wonder why the rates of girls being diagnosed with anxiety and depression skyrocketed.
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Something that I have never seen anyone talk about is how when many gen z and millennials were in school it was common, at least in the schools that I attended, for teachers to quite blatantly tell the girls in the class about the struggles and achievements of first and second wave feminism and then demand that the girls explain how they were going to carry the torch forward. But it was a lot less clear where they d take it, all of the big and flashy things had been done by their mothers and grandmothers so they had the pressure to be the next major wave of feminism but not the opportunity.
At the same time this was during the college r pe culture moral panic that briefly swept the country until it was no longer useful. During this it literally felt like every single person in an authority position from parents to teachers to politicians were telling girls that someday, no way to know when, a random guy you probably haven t even met yet is going to do horrible things to you and might even kill you and theres nothing you can do to stop it. It s guaranteed to happen and no matter how much you try you can t avoid it or fight it and then these people wonder why the rates of girls being diagnosed with anxiety and depression skyrocketed.
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Raven's
The real issue is that there aren't any consequences for women. For almost anything in this society. While men are on the hook for everything. Unless they have money. But most men don't make that much money and most of the higher paying jobs now favor women. This has created a situation where men are the only ones that take on risk when it comes to a relationship. I would love to be in a relationship with a woman that is loyal, wants to build a future, and wants to start a family. However, are you willing to risk it all for that? Are you willing to take on that relationship knowing that you could end up paying her spousal support for the rest of your life? Even when you turn 90? Once you get married, then you lose all control of the relationship. It all shifts to her. You end up becoming a male slave. If you don't do what she wants, then she will leave you. And she will take everything you have. And if you don't play the good/bad cop game with her, then she will also most likely leave you. Even if you have done everything right.
Relationships seem like a fairytale to me. The current system in place has scared me off from marriage. I'm not willing to take on all that risk. Taking on all that risk is too much to ask.
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The real issue is that there aren't any consequences for women. For almost anything in this society. While men are on the hook for everything. Unless they have money. But most men don't make that much money and most of the higher paying jobs now favor women. This has created a situation where men are the only ones that take on risk when it comes to a relationship. I would love to be in a relationship with a woman that is loyal, wants to build a future, and wants to start a family. However, are you willing to risk it all for that? Are you willing to take on that relationship knowing that you could end up paying her spousal support for the rest of your life? Even when you turn 90? Once you get married, then you lose all control of the relationship. It all shifts to her. You end up becoming a male slave. If you don't do what she wants, then she will leave you. And she will take everything you have. And if you don't play the good/bad cop game with her, then she will also most likely leave you. Even if you have done everything right.
Relationships seem like a fairytale to me. The current system in place has scared me off from marriage. I'm not willing to take on all that risk. Taking on all that risk is too much to ask.
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Colin
I genuinely don't get it. I am a newly married 34 year old and all my friends are getting married and having kids. People just don't want to get married in their early 20's anymore. It's not about casual hookups but building life experiences because once you settle down and have kids your world gets infinitely smaller. You can say what you want but try traveling the world with a toddler, let alone traveling across country. Being lonely in your 20's is a feature, not a bug. Go out, travel, date different people and build social capital. Stop the pitty party that you don't have a long term relationship by 25. The most valuable piece of advice I got from a mentor was that the person you want to spend the rest of your life with are very different people at 16, 18, 21 and 25.
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I genuinely don't get it. I am a newly married 34 year old and all my friends are getting married and having kids. People just don't want to get married in their early 20's anymore. It's not about casual hookups but building life experiences because once you settle down and have kids your world gets infinitely smaller. You can say what you want but try traveling the world with a toddler, let alone traveling across country. Being lonely in your 20's is a feature, not a bug. Go out, travel, date different people and build social capital. Stop the pitty party that you don't have a long term relationship by 25. The most valuable piece of advice I got from a mentor was that the person you want to spend the rest of your life with are very different people at 16, 18, 21 and 25.
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Peter
Do you have any solutions to these problems you have been describing lately? I feel like even though you have a good understanding of how broken and dysfunctional to the roots our culture is, you still approach these problems as an atheist liberal. I think this is why your advice to young men is really tone deaf. In essence you tell them 1. Your suffering doesn t matter lol, 2. Uhm have some empathy sweaty. I know I m strawmanning here and your advice does have merit, but i can only appreciate it because I already found my own solutions to these problems. Someone who didn t wouldn t be helped at all by this advice, I think. How do you deal with these problems, apart by being a member of the upper class?
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Do you have any solutions to these problems you have been describing lately? I feel like even though you have a good understanding of how broken and dysfunctional to the roots our culture is, you still approach these problems as an atheist liberal. I think this is why your advice to young men is really tone deaf. In essence you tell them 1. Your suffering doesn t matter lol, 2. Uhm have some empathy sweaty. I know I m strawmanning here and your advice does have merit, but i can only appreciate it because I already found my own solutions to these problems. Someone who didn t wouldn t be helped at all by this advice, I think. How do you deal with these problems, apart by being a member of the upper class?
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Zack
I thank you for the very honest and clarifying view given to modern problems, left = college educated and right = non. I've had many conflicts with my brother where I can not properly articulate why I'm more right leaning then him.
It's the same with issues in modern social dynamics where I briefly went MGTOW desperately trying to find meaning and reason to my suffering before he pulled me out of it. We live some of the most privileged lives in history from a survival stand point so why are we suffer suicidal depression when nothing blatantly bad has happen to us. Words can be harmful but words not said at the right time can be lethal.
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I thank you for the very honest and clarifying view given to modern problems, left = college educated and right = non. I've had many conflicts with my brother where I can not properly articulate why I'm more right leaning then him.
It's the same with issues in modern social dynamics where I briefly went MGTOW desperately trying to find meaning and reason to my suffering before he pulled me out of it. We live some of the most privileged lives in history from a survival stand point so why are we suffer suicidal depression when nothing blatantly bad has happen to us. Words can be harmful but words not said at the right time can be lethal.
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Nick
One of the things that has allowed me to ask out women as a guy with social anxiety is knowing that so many young people feel lonely and are single. I asked my sister once, trying to figure out how to get a date with someone I just see around, If you were working or shopping at a bookstore or something and a guy started talking to you and asked if you'd want to get coffee sometime, would you say yes? Her response was, I don't know, nobody has ever done that. My sister is a 23 year-old average-build blonde who dresses quite normal. If she has never had that experience, I assume very few women have. I figure it's a MeToo consequence.
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One of the things that has allowed me to ask out women as a guy with social anxiety is knowing that so many young people feel lonely and are single. I asked my sister once, trying to figure out how to get a date with someone I just see around, If you were working or shopping at a bookstore or something and a guy started talking to you and asked if you'd want to get coffee sometime, would you say yes? Her response was, I don't know, nobody has ever done that. My sister is a 23 year-old average-build blonde who dresses quite normal. If she has never had that experience, I assume very few women have. I figure it's a MeToo consequence.
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Brian
Im 45 and now single after my family broke apart. I have a masters degree, Im veteran, former athlete and very social. Never had problems with women before, the opposite. HOLY SHIT! Things are nuts now! Every girl i meet seems to normally date unemployed felons with neck tattoos or they dont want to even talk to you unless you have 5 br home worth x amount of dollars and drive a Tesla. I mean, normal guys dont stand a chance anymore. And these women in thier mid 30s to mid 40s are dumb, shallow and totally irresponsible. Its like theyve been out of high school / college for 15 years or more and havent matured at all.
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Im 45 and now single after my family broke apart. I have a masters degree, Im veteran, former athlete and very social. Never had problems with women before, the opposite. HOLY SHIT! Things are nuts now! Every girl i meet seems to normally date unemployed felons with neck tattoos or they dont want to even talk to you unless you have 5 br home worth x amount of dollars and drive a Tesla. I mean, normal guys dont stand a chance anymore. And these women in thier mid 30s to mid 40s are dumb, shallow and totally irresponsible. Its like theyve been out of high school / college for 15 years or more and havent matured at all.
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CaesarBecc
This overlaps well with the facts that since the age of agriculture and even before, 80% of women had child brains and 20% adult brain. The exact opposite for men. 80% adult brain, 20% child brain for males.
Society only focused on how to get rid of Male anti-social criminal behavior by using courts, police, and hangings.
In the past, men and society controlled females anti-social criminal behavior by ignoring them. So no need to create institutions to stop female criminal behavior.
Now we can't ignore them because we gave children the right to vote.
What do you think is the solution?
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This overlaps well with the facts that since the age of agriculture and even before, 80% of women had child brains and 20% adult brain. The exact opposite for men. 80% adult brain, 20% child brain for males.
Society only focused on how to get rid of Male anti-social criminal behavior by using courts, police, and hangings.
In the past, men and society controlled females anti-social criminal behavior by ignoring them. So no need to create institutions to stop female criminal behavior.
Now we can't ignore them because we gave children the right to vote.
What do you think is the solution?
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Adrian
Have only listened to the first ten minutes and theyre pretty awful.
-Just because you talk to different people doesnt mean you know how everyone in their 20s feels
- when you talk about talking to billionaires and name drop people that are associated with jake paul, selena gomez, and elon you are just bragging
- dating apps are NOT the only way to meet new people. School, gym, parties, hobbies, groups, anywhere else, just go up to someone give them a compliment introduce yourself.
Overall i think the internet has drastically hurt social abilities for men and women (mostly men).
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Have only listened to the first ten minutes and theyre pretty awful.
-Just because you talk to different people doesnt mean you know how everyone in their 20s feels
- when you talk about talking to billionaires and name drop people that are associated with jake paul, selena gomez, and elon you are just bragging
- dating apps are NOT the only way to meet new people. School, gym, parties, hobbies, groups, anywhere else, just go up to someone give them a compliment introduce yourself.
Overall i think the internet has drastically hurt social abilities for men and women (mostly men).
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Sam
As a 16 year old male, that outro deeply resonated with me. I've been having vengeful fantasies of mass domination and terror as of late, and am terribly scared that I'll let them overtake me. It especially resonated with me, because that I'm more of a nerd type, so these fantasies manifested themselves in the form of far-right extremism. I'll try to keep my own impulses at bay, and try to continue to stand for what is honorable. It's tough to believe that things will get better for me right now, but I'll take you at your word. Thank you, Whatifalthist, thank you.
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As a 16 year old male, that outro deeply resonated with me. I've been having vengeful fantasies of mass domination and terror as of late, and am terribly scared that I'll let them overtake me. It especially resonated with me, because that I'm more of a nerd type, so these fantasies manifested themselves in the form of far-right extremism. I'll try to keep my own impulses at bay, and try to continue to stand for what is honorable. It's tough to believe that things will get better for me right now, but I'll take you at your word. Thank you, Whatifalthist, thank you.
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Goggle
55: 10 You're letting your idealism contradict yourself. You just said you don't make bonobos matriarchal and you don't make chimps polygamous. Different primates have their own systems. And now you're railing against patriarchy which was the standard until 60 years ago. When Occam's razor would tell you that's what should be leaned into. Not Saudi Arabian women can't drive patriarchy but just normal measured patriarchy like machismo like in Latin America and a little more religion and farm life would do society just fine.
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55: 10 You're letting your idealism contradict yourself. You just said you don't make bonobos matriarchal and you don't make chimps polygamous. Different primates have their own systems. And now you're railing against patriarchy which was the standard until 60 years ago. When Occam's razor would tell you that's what should be leaned into. Not Saudi Arabian women can't drive patriarchy but just normal measured patriarchy like machismo like in Latin America and a little more religion and farm life would do society just fine.
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