Intel's Z590 Motherboard Problem: i7-11700K Power & Thermals Explained
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Date: 2021-03-25
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Comments and reviews: 10
Tim
I have a suggestion for a video: Full Tower vs Mid Tower - have full tower case manufacturers lost the plot? There are a huge number of mid tower cases which can fit three or more 360mm radiators at the same time. But if you look at full tower cases, which are supposed to be bigger, nearly all of those are designed for only 360mm radiators as well - at most they seem to offer one 420mm radiator slot, and even if they say they have multiple slots for 420mm radiators, when you check, they DON'T have the room to have more than one installed at a time! If mid towers are 120mm fan based, going up to 360mm radiators, then surely, by logic, the reason to pay the extra to go to full tower is to switch to quieter and more efficient 140mm fan based systems which can hold three 420mm radiators at the same time? If full tower doesn t give full 140mm fan and multiple simultaneous 420mm radiator support (at least 3 at the same time), in the same way that mid towers already give full 120mm fan and multiple 360mm radiator support, then what s the point in them even existing? Why would anyone buy them? Is it that much of an ask for case manufacturers to add a couple more centimetres of room to fit these in so enthusiasts can have a zero thermal throttling solution to their overclocking top end thread ripper CPU and GPU custom water loops?
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I have a suggestion for a video: Full Tower vs Mid Tower - have full tower case manufacturers lost the plot? There are a huge number of mid tower cases which can fit three or more 360mm radiators at the same time. But if you look at full tower cases, which are supposed to be bigger, nearly all of those are designed for only 360mm radiators as well - at most they seem to offer one 420mm radiator slot, and even if they say they have multiple slots for 420mm radiators, when you check, they DON'T have the room to have more than one installed at a time! If mid towers are 120mm fan based, going up to 360mm radiators, then surely, by logic, the reason to pay the extra to go to full tower is to switch to quieter and more efficient 140mm fan based systems which can hold three 420mm radiators at the same time? If full tower doesn t give full 140mm fan and multiple simultaneous 420mm radiator support (at least 3 at the same time), in the same way that mid towers already give full 120mm fan and multiple 360mm radiator support, then what s the point in them even existing? Why would anyone buy them? Is it that much of an ask for case manufacturers to add a couple more centimetres of room to fit these in so enthusiasts can have a zero thermal throttling solution to their overclocking top end thread ripper CPU and GPU custom water loops?
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Bobaganoosh
Glad you did this video. The marketing is crap for these and I think they need to just own the significantly higher power draw required to match/exceed a 5800x in performance on a less efficient node. I feel like you could have done your other video with some of these numbers included and just given a big disclaimer up front that there's an issue with Intel's marketing. What you did, is reference the bad marketing and then do a review on a processor gimped to 125W that really isn't intended to be just to prove a point. I get that point, and I get how important it will be to make sure people understand the LARGE COOLER requirement the 11-series should come with, but I still think it would have been more honest and genuine to just do the benchmarks at the higher (within spec) limit. All people would have to do is look at power/temps (which you should show) to see where the trade-off is...especially if you tell them.
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Glad you did this video. The marketing is crap for these and I think they need to just own the significantly higher power draw required to match/exceed a 5800x in performance on a less efficient node. I feel like you could have done your other video with some of these numbers included and just given a big disclaimer up front that there's an issue with Intel's marketing. What you did, is reference the bad marketing and then do a review on a processor gimped to 125W that really isn't intended to be just to prove a point. I get that point, and I get how important it will be to make sure people understand the LARGE COOLER requirement the 11-series should come with, but I still think it would have been more honest and genuine to just do the benchmarks at the higher (within spec) limit. All people would have to do is look at power/temps (which you should show) to see where the trade-off is...especially if you tell them.
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Varinder
Buying a K CPU already means overclocking and good coolers will be required as this is what consumers are going to do...after all it is a specific overclocking CPU. If you want to stick to Tau limits etc, get the non K CPU's as that is what they are there for....Also for the K CPU's a good cooler will extract the extra headroom from the CPU at a lower temp, as importantly people will also play with the vcore to get it at the lowest voltage for stability at the highest clocks...for example a 10700K all core 5.1GHz at only 1.278v or lower in some cases... Not sure what all the fuss is about! The 11700K is not a great upgrade over the 10700K and Intel are in limbo until alder lake hits...
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Buying a K CPU already means overclocking and good coolers will be required as this is what consumers are going to do...after all it is a specific overclocking CPU. If you want to stick to Tau limits etc, get the non K CPU's as that is what they are there for....Also for the K CPU's a good cooler will extract the extra headroom from the CPU at a lower temp, as importantly people will also play with the vcore to get it at the lowest voltage for stability at the highest clocks...for example a 10700K all core 5.1GHz at only 1.278v or lower in some cases... Not sure what all the fuss is about! The 11700K is not a great upgrade over the 10700K and Intel are in limbo until alder lake hits...
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CrazyLocha
Thanks Steve and the GN gang for the hard work to lay this out like you did. This has been an argument or discussion I've had with people since before Steve started working out of his bedroom etc. Main reason I use few sites comparisons is because of lack of methodology transparency. Yourself, Anandtech/Ian Cutress, and Hardware Unboxed have all upheld your principles over the years and am glad to see the level of success and respect you all have earned. I most certainly will continue my support via the GN Store and direct contributions and happily let the ads roll on YT. Cheers and heres to many more great videos and years ahead.
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Thanks Steve and the GN gang for the hard work to lay this out like you did. This has been an argument or discussion I've had with people since before Steve started working out of his bedroom etc. Main reason I use few sites comparisons is because of lack of methodology transparency. Yourself, Anandtech/Ian Cutress, and Hardware Unboxed have all upheld your principles over the years and am glad to see the level of success and respect you all have earned. I most certainly will continue my support via the GN Store and direct contributions and happily let the ads roll on YT. Cheers and heres to many more great videos and years ahead.
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Cris
9:20 I agree the optics COULD be bad for this. HOwever the oppisite is also true, With your typical Power User you guys call them, this is a massive gain for them. Realizing that just adding better cooling potential can allow the cpu that is LOCKED by intel, To overclock itself thanks to the MoBo. AsRock b365 pro 4 mobo, intel i5 9400F and it boosts above 4.1ghz. Sometimes I see as high as 4.3.....on a stock intel NON K series Chip. With no overclocking knowledge really and just adding an aio to an i5... gets me a couple extra steps into overclocked? Thats a win steve. #winning
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9:20 I agree the optics COULD be bad for this. HOwever the oppisite is also true, With your typical Power User you guys call them, this is a massive gain for them. Realizing that just adding better cooling potential can allow the cpu that is LOCKED by intel, To overclock itself thanks to the MoBo. AsRock b365 pro 4 mobo, intel i5 9400F and it boosts above 4.1ghz. Sometimes I see as high as 4.3.....on a stock intel NON K series Chip. With no overclocking knowledge really and just adding an aio to an i5... gets me a couple extra steps into overclocked? Thats a win steve. #winning
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XDSDDLord
Is it worth adding power/heat efficiency numbers to reviews? Since you're testing both AMD and Intel within spec and using the same cooler, performance per watt would be comparable and especially useful for the over clocking portions, and something I think there is enough data to do, just not display. I can think of a situation where someone might see CPU X get 3% more performance from an overclock and consider getting it, but then when they realize that 3% comes at a 50% power increase over another CPU they decide against it.
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Is it worth adding power/heat efficiency numbers to reviews? Since you're testing both AMD and Intel within spec and using the same cooler, performance per watt would be comparable and especially useful for the over clocking portions, and something I think there is enough data to do, just not display. I can think of a situation where someone might see CPU X get 3% more performance from an overclock and consider getting it, but then when they realize that 3% comes at a 50% power increase over another CPU they decide against it.
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Zarcondeegrissom
Hmm, I almost get the impression motherboard makers are trying to make the 11th gen benchmark better just to avoid warehouses of motherboards they can't sell, like what happened with x299 a few years back. so long as production matches what intel makes, I don't think it will be that bad with going trends of out-of-stock making just about anything that is on store shelves sell out. I would not be booking the coffin bearers and Tony Igy just yet, this round may be a draw, lol.
Great vid Steve and crew. B)
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Hmm, I almost get the impression motherboard makers are trying to make the 11th gen benchmark better just to avoid warehouses of motherboards they can't sell, like what happened with x299 a few years back. so long as production matches what intel makes, I don't think it will be that bad with going trends of out-of-stock making just about anything that is on store shelves sell out. I would not be booking the coffin bearers and Tony Igy just yet, this round may be a draw, lol.
Great vid Steve and crew. B)
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pino
It WILL not draw more power it CAN draw more power. for gaming you will NEVER see those power draws. and everyone i know will want to run the cpu at the all core turbo at the very minimum. so all limits off mce off. only when you enable mce you need silly cooling these days as then you start to get into the giant overclocks forcing 5+ ghz on all core.
my 9900k at all core 4.7 (so no limits) runs a max 185 watts but in reality in games like battlefield 5 it barelty hits 70 watts despite hitting 65 % load.
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It WILL not draw more power it CAN draw more power. for gaming you will NEVER see those power draws. and everyone i know will want to run the cpu at the all core turbo at the very minimum. so all limits off mce off. only when you enable mce you need silly cooling these days as then you start to get into the giant overclocks forcing 5+ ghz on all core.
my 9900k at all core 4.7 (so no limits) runs a max 185 watts but in reality in games like battlefield 5 it barelty hits 70 watts despite hitting 65 % load.
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enmass90
I mean, it's definitely a spec if it's on the spec sheet. The games these motherboard makers are playing cause issues for normal people. Like my buddy bought a prebuilt with a 10700F and was wondering why it kept hitting 90c during games. It turns out the mobo had unlocked the power limit and the included cpu cooler was insufficient. While the extra performance is appreciated, if prebuilt manufactures are cutting corners on cooling this becomes an issue more than a benefit.
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I mean, it's definitely a spec if it's on the spec sheet. The games these motherboard makers are playing cause issues for normal people. Like my buddy bought a prebuilt with a 10700F and was wondering why it kept hitting 90c during games. It turns out the mobo had unlocked the power limit and the included cpu cooler was insufficient. While the extra performance is appreciated, if prebuilt manufactures are cutting corners on cooling this becomes an issue more than a benefit.
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Bobaganoosh
Also, you showed some temperatures with an aio on this processor, but I'd love to see comparisons with the same work-load and same aio on a 5800X. The ryzen dies being as small as they are have a really hard time getting the heat out of the cores. While the Intel chip will certainly cost more on your electric bill from the extra power draw, I have seen higher temps on games and similar work-loads on the 5800X than the 11700k with similar coolers for most reviews.
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Also, you showed some temperatures with an aio on this processor, but I'd love to see comparisons with the same work-load and same aio on a 5800X. The ryzen dies being as small as they are have a really hard time getting the heat out of the cores. While the Intel chip will certainly cost more on your electric bill from the extra power draw, I have seen higher temps on games and similar work-loads on the 5800X than the 11700k with similar coolers for most reviews.
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