New AMD Threadripper 7980X, 7970X, 7960X, & Threadripper Pro CPUs Announced
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Date: 2023-10-19
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Comments and reviews: 20
Elkarlo77
We just installed out Server with a 5955WX and the choice was delibratly as there is a licensing Problem:
We would have to pay a lot more. The Machine is capable of running lot of VM's.
With 16 Cores/32 Threads you have the minimum for Windows Server 2022 or Windows Server 2019 maximum for single License. Normaly you have a Failover Cluster for your Microsoft Enviroment, which means you got 2-3 Servers on Premise. Your Services run in VM or Dockers. 3 Servers gives you a nominal Corecount of 48 Cores and 96 Threads, everything Interconnected with 20-40Gbit a so called hyperconverged Cluster. Can be realised for 15.000 USD, 17.000USD with Networking equipment.
You can run around 24 Servers Slots in this Setup. (Some services needs 2 Slots) Lets say you have 8 MS Windows Server Licenses running, Several Linux Servers, a BSD Firewall etc. Would be a normal Setup, as you have 3 DC Running, Some app Server, one Wsus, one Exchange etc.
You payed around 4000 USD for the Microsoft Lizenzes. So now you are at 20.000 USD all together.
If you putt in lets say an 5965WX. You have to double the license fees. As now every Microsoft Server treats your enviroment as a 24 Core Setup, thanks to the failover Cluster.
Even when you got only one 24 Core Server, one 16 Core Server and an old 8 Core. You have to pay the licenses, around 8000 USD now.
So not only did you pay 500USD more for 8 Cores, but you payed 4000 USD for licenses. For Literally no Performance Increase, serverwise.
And thats the reason why there are 16 Core Threadripper Servers out there. For small Server-Cluster Setups with Cheap Licensing. Intel has the same 16/32 Processors for the same reason.
Did this Week the Upgrade of our Cluster.
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We just installed out Server with a 5955WX and the choice was delibratly as there is a licensing Problem:
We would have to pay a lot more. The Machine is capable of running lot of VM's.
With 16 Cores/32 Threads you have the minimum for Windows Server 2022 or Windows Server 2019 maximum for single License. Normaly you have a Failover Cluster for your Microsoft Enviroment, which means you got 2-3 Servers on Premise. Your Services run in VM or Dockers. 3 Servers gives you a nominal Corecount of 48 Cores and 96 Threads, everything Interconnected with 20-40Gbit a so called hyperconverged Cluster. Can be realised for 15.000 USD, 17.000USD with Networking equipment.
You can run around 24 Servers Slots in this Setup. (Some services needs 2 Slots) Lets say you have 8 MS Windows Server Licenses running, Several Linux Servers, a BSD Firewall etc. Would be a normal Setup, as you have 3 DC Running, Some app Server, one Wsus, one Exchange etc.
You payed around 4000 USD for the Microsoft Lizenzes. So now you are at 20.000 USD all together.
If you putt in lets say an 5965WX. You have to double the license fees. As now every Microsoft Server treats your enviroment as a 24 Core Setup, thanks to the failover Cluster.
Even when you got only one 24 Core Server, one 16 Core Server and an old 8 Core. You have to pay the licenses, around 8000 USD now.
So not only did you pay 500USD more for 8 Cores, but you payed 4000 USD for licenses. For Literally no Performance Increase, serverwise.
And thats the reason why there are 16 Core Threadripper Servers out there. For small Server-Cluster Setups with Cheap Licensing. Intel has the same 16/32 Processors for the same reason.
Did this Week the Upgrade of our Cluster.
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Vatharian
Xeon w7/w9 SPR looks better price wise, and it has been on the market for quite a while. This platform setup looks like carbon copy of Intel's offering with chipset split.
We will see, though, how good the motherboard pricing will be.
The reason why low core count CPUs are often sold in high quantities, are licensing costs. For example Windows Server is by default sold in 2 and 16 core packs, so buying 16-core part is the most cost effective. Many software suites are licensed per-core.
There was an interesing note that not all PCI-e lanes will be of 5.0 variety (0:49)?
the 32 SATA lanes is definitely interesting! ASRock will be owverjoyed cough X99-Extreme11 cough .
As for memory overclocking - with Kingston Renegade Pro and G.Skill's R5 Zeta, which work very well with XMP, I think there is a good chance of success here.
Disclaimer - I have Xeon W7 - I'm super curious to see if I messed up not waiting for TR! Oh, on a side note, many folks who were waiting for HEDT return jumped Sapphire Rapids bandwagon. AMD not making any kind of noise might have negative results here.
I am curious on one thing - AMD has this CPU fusing stuff in Epyc CPUs, which causes CPU to physically lock itself to specific vendor by burning certain fuses on first boot. This creates i.e. Dell-only CPUs, or Supermicro-only CPUs. Only Tyan is allowing to turn this feature off, as far as I know. Will Threadripper Pro have this enabled too? This may be important for business clients, as it's part of AMD's security engine.
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Xeon w7/w9 SPR looks better price wise, and it has been on the market for quite a while. This platform setup looks like carbon copy of Intel's offering with chipset split.
We will see, though, how good the motherboard pricing will be.
The reason why low core count CPUs are often sold in high quantities, are licensing costs. For example Windows Server is by default sold in 2 and 16 core packs, so buying 16-core part is the most cost effective. Many software suites are licensed per-core.
There was an interesing note that not all PCI-e lanes will be of 5.0 variety (0:49)?
the 32 SATA lanes is definitely interesting! ASRock will be owverjoyed cough X99-Extreme11 cough .
As for memory overclocking - with Kingston Renegade Pro and G.Skill's R5 Zeta, which work very well with XMP, I think there is a good chance of success here.
Disclaimer - I have Xeon W7 - I'm super curious to see if I messed up not waiting for TR! Oh, on a side note, many folks who were waiting for HEDT return jumped Sapphire Rapids bandwagon. AMD not making any kind of noise might have negative results here.
I am curious on one thing - AMD has this CPU fusing stuff in Epyc CPUs, which causes CPU to physically lock itself to specific vendor by burning certain fuses on first boot. This creates i.e. Dell-only CPUs, or Supermicro-only CPUs. Only Tyan is allowing to turn this feature off, as far as I know. Will Threadripper Pro have this enabled too? This may be important for business clients, as it's part of AMD's security engine.
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power666
The mixing of Pro CPUs into the TRX50 socket is likely to appease criticisms of a dead end upgrade path like what happened with the TRX40 platform. Feels like AMD is giving themselves an out here. One potential reason why users in the future may want to stick a Threadripper Pro into the more prosumer TRX40 socket is if the user wants to leverage accelerators that would only be available on the Pro lineup. AMD has been hinting distinguishing future lineups in this way. What is interesting is that physically these are the same SP6 socket used for AMD's recently announced Sienna platform for servers. It would be nice if motherboard makers would permit these Sienna parts to also run on these motherboard as I suspect they'll get even higher core counts compared to the workstation lineup.
What is weird is that AMD in these slides didn't distinguish between Zen 4 and Zen 4c usage. All the Sienna parts for servers are Zen 4c while here it looks mostly to be Zen 4. In particular the 64 core part might be Zen 4c due the relatively low base clock speed which is trait of Zen 4c.
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The mixing of Pro CPUs into the TRX50 socket is likely to appease criticisms of a dead end upgrade path like what happened with the TRX40 platform. Feels like AMD is giving themselves an out here. One potential reason why users in the future may want to stick a Threadripper Pro into the more prosumer TRX40 socket is if the user wants to leverage accelerators that would only be available on the Pro lineup. AMD has been hinting distinguishing future lineups in this way. What is interesting is that physically these are the same SP6 socket used for AMD's recently announced Sienna platform for servers. It would be nice if motherboard makers would permit these Sienna parts to also run on these motherboard as I suspect they'll get even higher core counts compared to the workstation lineup.
What is weird is that AMD in these slides didn't distinguish between Zen 4 and Zen 4c usage. All the Sienna parts for servers are Zen 4c while here it looks mostly to be Zen 4. In particular the 64 core part might be Zen 4c due the relatively low base clock speed which is trait of Zen 4c.
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blendonator
I honestly would love the idea of having a TR for a HEDT build that I can run VM's on, and game or compiling (linking stage == single thread; faster clock plz).
The issue I have now with the 5950x x570 is that I have that 128g memory limit. While I rarely need the cores or ram entirely, running things like Cisco Modelling Labs (CML) can be a case where I do need it. Some switches or routers require up to 32g per instance in the simulations. And with Cisco DNA Center (DNAC, later renamed Catalyst), the VM I believe is up to 256g per instance.
Either way, having a good 24 or 32 cores (high clock for games/compiles) and a 512g-1t of ram is starting to become a real nice to have for home or office. The PCIe lanes would be nice to not go through my chipset or have such headaches when maxing out storage with NVMe and SATA in a system, as well.
Can't wait until my next refresh!
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I honestly would love the idea of having a TR for a HEDT build that I can run VM's on, and game or compiling (linking stage == single thread; faster clock plz).
The issue I have now with the 5950x x570 is that I have that 128g memory limit. While I rarely need the cores or ram entirely, running things like Cisco Modelling Labs (CML) can be a case where I do need it. Some switches or routers require up to 32g per instance in the simulations. And with Cisco DNA Center (DNAC, later renamed Catalyst), the VM I believe is up to 256g per instance.
Either way, having a good 24 or 32 cores (high clock for games/compiles) and a 512g-1t of ram is starting to become a real nice to have for home or office. The PCIe lanes would be nice to not go through my chipset or have such headaches when maxing out storage with NVMe and SATA in a system, as well.
Can't wait until my next refresh!
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pino
Guess AMD is finally done ripping of corporations so they now get back to ripping off consumers with theleftover chips. They really don't care about consumers we are just a costgap fuler to them. they care most about the high profits in the corporate space. Don't let them trick you into thinking they care no matter how often she says it. Prices reflect that. there is NO reson yo charge 5 grand for that chip... its effectivly 4x 7950x which is 600 bucks so 2400 buck would be all they should haveto charge and that chip is already overpriced to begin with. makes me a bit sick they try to cashgrab like this and get away with it as people try to justify it.
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Guess AMD is finally done ripping of corporations so they now get back to ripping off consumers with theleftover chips. They really don't care about consumers we are just a costgap fuler to them. they care most about the high profits in the corporate space. Don't let them trick you into thinking they care no matter how often she says it. Prices reflect that. there is NO reson yo charge 5 grand for that chip... its effectivly 4x 7950x which is 600 bucks so 2400 buck would be all they should haveto charge and that chip is already overpriced to begin with. makes me a bit sick they try to cashgrab like this and get away with it as people try to justify it.
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ERP
I don't know man... Kind of disappointed.
I'm more for saving up for Xeon Sapphire Rapids with a raptor lake refresh.
They can go up to 6800Mhz vs 5200 on amd, and mostly all support 64 - 112 Pcie 5 lanes.
I don't care that much for multicore performance, not all my Pro software can utilize those, and I also want these to be sometimes used for games in 4K, where 3D cache perform worse than in 1080P and 1440p, and Thunderbolt support for my pro devices is a must have. I have a huge custom liquid loop, that will be more than enough to run those and even overclock them, and power consumption is not a problem personally for me.
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I don't know man... Kind of disappointed.
I'm more for saving up for Xeon Sapphire Rapids with a raptor lake refresh.
They can go up to 6800Mhz vs 5200 on amd, and mostly all support 64 - 112 Pcie 5 lanes.
I don't care that much for multicore performance, not all my Pro software can utilize those, and I also want these to be sometimes used for games in 4K, where 3D cache perform worse than in 1080P and 1440p, and Thunderbolt support for my pro devices is a must have. I have a huge custom liquid loop, that will be more than enough to run those and even overclock them, and power consumption is not a problem personally for me.
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Deven
Love the videos, keep up the great work! Question for you, would you choose a 7800X or a 4070 if you were building a rig for yourself? I prefer the Nvidia feature set, but not more than I prefer resale value, and the longevity of the product. I mainly would like to know whether or not you think 12 GB of VRAM will be irrelevant in the next couple of years. I know current AAA games make use of 12 gb already, and if new Xbox and PlayStation consoles are gonna push games to be even more demanding in the next couple of years.. then should I even be considering a 12gb 4070? I d be playing at 1080p btw. Thanks for your input..
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Love the videos, keep up the great work! Question for you, would you choose a 7800X or a 4070 if you were building a rig for yourself? I prefer the Nvidia feature set, but not more than I prefer resale value, and the longevity of the product. I mainly would like to know whether or not you think 12 GB of VRAM will be irrelevant in the next couple of years. I know current AAA games make use of 12 gb already, and if new Xbox and PlayStation consoles are gonna push games to be even more demanding in the next couple of years.. then should I even be considering a 12gb 4070? I d be playing at 1080p btw. Thanks for your input..
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Kyoudai
I had a 3960X and I was really disappointed. The single threaded boost was non-existent, slowing down preparation of GPU render tiles (in Blender) and making gaming impossible. I also had USB issues to the point it was borderline unusable with any USB audio equipment and the DPC latency was up the roof. Never ever again. I am happy with my 13900KS instead, where I have no audio issues and low DPC latency. Intel might be inefficient in terms of power vs performance, but their platform is at least very matured and no YOLO BS like AMD keeps releasing. Just like their inability to provide the correct slides. oops .
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I had a 3960X and I was really disappointed. The single threaded boost was non-existent, slowing down preparation of GPU render tiles (in Blender) and making gaming impossible. I also had USB issues to the point it was borderline unusable with any USB audio equipment and the DPC latency was up the roof. Never ever again. I am happy with my 13900KS instead, where I have no audio issues and low DPC latency. Intel might be inefficient in terms of power vs performance, but their platform is at least very matured and no YOLO BS like AMD keeps releasing. Just like their inability to provide the correct slides. oops .
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Thanny
11:08 I don't see anyone putting a 96-core TR Pro chip in a TRX50 board, but I _can_ see someone putting a 12-core or 16-core TR Pro chip in one, provided they are both cheaper than the 24-core TR chip. It depends on the pricing and feature set of each type of motherboard. Someone with more desktop-oriented needs might want a TRX50 board more than a WRX90 board, and be fine with 12 or 16 cores (again, provided they're cheaper than the 24-core non-Pro chip).
We'll have to wait and see if that use case emerges.
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11:08 I don't see anyone putting a 96-core TR Pro chip in a TRX50 board, but I _can_ see someone putting a 12-core or 16-core TR Pro chip in one, provided they are both cheaper than the 24-core TR chip. It depends on the pricing and feature set of each type of motherboard. Someone with more desktop-oriented needs might want a TRX50 board more than a WRX90 board, and be fine with 12 or 16 cores (again, provided they're cheaper than the 24-core non-Pro chip).
We'll have to wait and see if that use case emerges.
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Leon
I don't really see the mid-tier 32 core Threadripper doing well. It's 67% more expensive than the base 24 core model without much increase in cache, and cores only go up by 33%. The 64 core CPU appears even somewhat reasonable, as you get double the cache and double the cores for double the price, as computer processors are not usually the kind of products where performance scales linearly with cost. I suppose they're still trying the RX 7900XT/7700XT strat of upselling more expensive products.
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I don't really see the mid-tier 32 core Threadripper doing well. It's 67% more expensive than the base 24 core model without much increase in cache, and cores only go up by 33%. The 64 core CPU appears even somewhat reasonable, as you get double the cache and double the cores for double the price, as computer processors are not usually the kind of products where performance scales linearly with cost. I suppose they're still trying the RX 7900XT/7700XT strat of upselling more expensive products.
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ChrisM541
Honestly, Steve, I lost all 'heart & mind' in AMD after what they did to us TRX40 owners!
They literally lied so damn hard in publicly stating a long term support promise - many like me bought into that and purchased an expensive system. Fast forward and the ONLY CPU releases for TRX40 was the original three Zen2 models. I, like so many in a similar position, am utterly and completely disgusted by AMD. Talk about stabbing your own userbase in the back !!!
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Honestly, Steve, I lost all 'heart & mind' in AMD after what they did to us TRX40 owners!
They literally lied so damn hard in publicly stating a long term support promise - many like me bought into that and purchased an expensive system. Fast forward and the ONLY CPU releases for TRX40 was the original three Zen2 models. I, like so many in a similar position, am utterly and completely disgusted by AMD. Talk about stabbing your own userbase in the back !!!
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Carbon
AMD vs Intel press release impact via achievement 'refresh':
Intel: Hey, we found a new planet that can sustain life! We sent a probe six years ago, and the first images just arrived. Displayed on big screen globally, two skeletons intertwined in a death throe.
AMD: Good news, everyone! We found a new planet, too! It's inhabited by super friendly citizens that use fusion-core technology and shared their plans with us! Who wants one?
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AMD vs Intel press release impact via achievement 'refresh':
Intel: Hey, we found a new planet that can sustain life! We sent a probe six years ago, and the first images just arrived. Displayed on big screen globally, two skeletons intertwined in a death throe.
AMD: Good news, everyone! We found a new planet, too! It's inhabited by super friendly citizens that use fusion-core technology and shared their plans with us! Who wants one?
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TreKronor
Wouldn't it be possible that the reason both CPUs work on the TRX50 platform is simply due to bios size restraint? Seems reasonable that making the CPU run on a platform takes up less bios file size than having all the additional enterprise features of the WRX90. I understand that maybe they could have gone with a bigger bios chip if that was the case but this was just something I came to think about while watching.
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Wouldn't it be possible that the reason both CPUs work on the TRX50 platform is simply due to bios size restraint? Seems reasonable that making the CPU run on a platform takes up less bios file size than having all the additional enterprise features of the WRX90. I understand that maybe they could have gone with a bigger bios chip if that was the case but this was just something I came to think about while watching.
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Philtography
I just think these are too late in coming out, I'm excited for Zen 5 now, not more Zen 4 cores.
Plus, that is a huge price premium per core, the 16 core 7950x is 550 meaning a 32 core version could be 1100 but this is 2500!!! So a 227% price premium, not to mention that the motherboards will likely be 400% more expensive.
I just hope AMD increases the core count on the regular desktop line up soon.
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I just think these are too late in coming out, I'm excited for Zen 5 now, not more Zen 4 cores.
Plus, that is a huge price premium per core, the 16 core 7950x is 550 meaning a 32 core version could be 1100 but this is 2500!!! So a 227% price premium, not to mention that the motherboards will likely be 400% more expensive.
I just hope AMD increases the core count on the regular desktop line up soon.
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Derek
For this class pf CPU we are mainly interested in performance per dollar and performance per watt stats. If we are building machines for fuzzing, we are primarily concerned with raw CPU, memory, and floating point performance.
The big thing that'd make us bite here is if these HEDT or Pro variants wind up being cheaper than a rack of 7950X machines, either though performance per dollar or power savings.
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For this class pf CPU we are mainly interested in performance per dollar and performance per watt stats. If we are building machines for fuzzing, we are primarily concerned with raw CPU, memory, and floating point performance.
The big thing that'd make us bite here is if these HEDT or Pro variants wind up being cheaper than a rack of 7950X machines, either though performance per dollar or power savings.
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CrazyElf
One worry I have is whether or not AMD will release a Zen 5 Threadripper - a lot of people who owned Zen 2 Threadripper felt burned when there was no Zen 3 Threadripper that came out.
Another complaint I have personally is that it has taken a year for this to come out - previously it had only been a few months between when the regular mainstream chips came out and their Threadripper counterparts.
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One worry I have is whether or not AMD will release a Zen 5 Threadripper - a lot of people who owned Zen 2 Threadripper felt burned when there was no Zen 3 Threadripper that came out.
Another complaint I have personally is that it has taken a year for this to come out - previously it had only been a few months between when the regular mainstream chips came out and their Threadripper counterparts.
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t-o-m-m
I imagine if you don't need all the IO from WX90 or the power from the highest performing pro CPUs, but you do need the management, then you could go TRX50 with the lower end pro CPU?
Can't see another reasoning, definitely a bit niche but that's the type of thing AMD tends to do; the platforms are similar so we might as well let people put this in this . We'll see how they support it all I guess.
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I imagine if you don't need all the IO from WX90 or the power from the highest performing pro CPUs, but you do need the management, then you could go TRX50 with the lower end pro CPU?
Can't see another reasoning, definitely a bit niche but that's the type of thing AMD tends to do; the platforms are similar so we might as well let people put this in this . We'll see how they support it all I guess.
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Billy
AMD: instead of comparing to our popular and successful Threadripper 3000 line which we are bringing back because people were pissed by being stranded, let's compare to Intel's 8000 that's hard for consumers to even buy!
(I get it, TR Pro is the launch they care about. It's just making this 3970X owner nervous that they're going to leave us with a stranded flaky mess again...)
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AMD: instead of comparing to our popular and successful Threadripper 3000 line which we are bringing back because people were pissed by being stranded, let's compare to Intel's 8000 that's hard for consumers to even buy!
(I get it, TR Pro is the launch they care about. It's just making this 3970X owner nervous that they're going to leave us with a stranded flaky mess again...)
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Mom
Heck yes! Maybe I will finally be able to upgrade my 2920X Threadripper in my NAS to Threadripper 5000 in 4 years from now on
Threadripper 3000 is just simply too expensive still and completely not worth it for me, paying that much for basically just a PCIe Gen upgrade that I can't utilize anyways (only 10Gbit networking, so yeah)
PCIe Lane count is where it is for me atm
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Heck yes! Maybe I will finally be able to upgrade my 2920X Threadripper in my NAS to Threadripper 5000 in 4 years from now on
Threadripper 3000 is just simply too expensive still and completely not worth it for me, paying that much for basically just a PCIe Gen upgrade that I can't utilize anyways (only 10Gbit networking, so yeah)
PCIe Lane count is where it is for me atm
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Damien
Generally people consider this kind of chip is useless for gaming. I can see at least one exception: chess! (yes it is a game). Most popular engine, Stockfish, doesn't use GPU, but is well optimised to benefit for a large number of cores. And It uses a large amount of memory (for the hash tables). I would love to see such a benchmark ... but not to buy this chip myself :)
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Generally people consider this kind of chip is useless for gaming. I can see at least one exception: chess! (yes it is a game). Most popular engine, Stockfish, doesn't use GPU, but is well optimised to benefit for a large number of cores. And It uses a large amount of memory (for the hash tables). I would love to see such a benchmark ... but not to buy this chip myself :)
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