Could This Vehicle Have Been Diagnosed WITHOUT A Lab Scope? Honda P0389
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Date: 2020-08-05
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Comments and reviews: 10
thhall459
Fantastic work, brother! Thank you for this detailed and understandable lecture! Could you PLEASE put your skills to work on solving the ubiquitous Honda S2000 (2006 to 2007 and probably others) off idle hesitation/stumble problem. Hundreds of people have posted online about this, but I have not seen a single verifiable solution. People have hypothesized that the MAP sensor needs a whack (but it doesnt work, or the MAP needs a cable tie to hold the electrical connection in place better, and people have verified that air filter replacement, valve clearance adjustments, spark plug replacements, throttle body induction cleaning, air idle control valve cleaning, throttle cable slack adjustments, O2 sensor replacements and even fuel pump/filter replacements all have NO effect. In other words, throwing parts at this problem doesnt work. I have a 2007 S2000 with about 60, 000 miles that I have owned since brand new, and it has this problem, and it is slowly worsening. This car is mechanically and cosmetically perfect, except for this problem. PLEASE help the S2000 community with this problem! Thank you!
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Fantastic work, brother! Thank you for this detailed and understandable lecture! Could you PLEASE put your skills to work on solving the ubiquitous Honda S2000 (2006 to 2007 and probably others) off idle hesitation/stumble problem. Hundreds of people have posted online about this, but I have not seen a single verifiable solution. People have hypothesized that the MAP sensor needs a whack (but it doesnt work, or the MAP needs a cable tie to hold the electrical connection in place better, and people have verified that air filter replacement, valve clearance adjustments, spark plug replacements, throttle body induction cleaning, air idle control valve cleaning, throttle cable slack adjustments, O2 sensor replacements and even fuel pump/filter replacements all have NO effect. In other words, throwing parts at this problem doesnt work. I have a 2007 S2000 with about 60, 000 miles that I have owned since brand new, and it has this problem, and it is slowly worsening. This car is mechanically and cosmetically perfect, except for this problem. PLEASE help the S2000 community with this problem! Thank you!
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james
My brother-in -law had 37 years as a NAPA jobber. When Auto Zone first opened a store in our town he told me to be careful what you buy from them. Seems at the time they had a 65% return ratio on electricals. Napa store is gone now, so is my brother-in-law. Our town now has an auto zone, advance and an o'reilly's. Good thing there are still two old school parts supplier's in town. Only in an extreme pinch will I concider dealing with the three big box suppliers. You also have to be careful as the 3 big box chains have got to where they are a bit higher than the local owned guys, I guess they have to raise prices to make up for all their 'lifetime warranty' exchanges, lol.
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My brother-in -law had 37 years as a NAPA jobber. When Auto Zone first opened a store in our town he told me to be careful what you buy from them. Seems at the time they had a 65% return ratio on electricals. Napa store is gone now, so is my brother-in-law. Our town now has an auto zone, advance and an o'reilly's. Good thing there are still two old school parts supplier's in town. Only in an extreme pinch will I concider dealing with the three big box suppliers. You also have to be careful as the 3 big box chains have got to where they are a bit higher than the local owned guys, I guess they have to raise prices to make up for all their 'lifetime warranty' exchanges, lol.
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autos
eric, evrbuddy knows like down here n the south we use too wuudin sticks to dignose those timin issuze i get billy jo bob up er in at driver seet she turnz a key n I sit der wit my wuudin sticks and when at timin is dead on those tt sticks cross and i go ahead and errr m titen at dere 9/six teeth bolt on at dere rotatin part and its set ats all therr iz too it. dont need no fancy smatchy pickle scope ' those are for pickle farmerz crazy northern folk!
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eric, evrbuddy knows like down here n the south we use too wuudin sticks to dignose those timin issuze i get billy jo bob up er in at driver seet she turnz a key n I sit der wit my wuudin sticks and when at timin is dead on those tt sticks cross and i go ahead and errr m titen at dere 9/six teeth bolt on at dere rotatin part and its set ats all therr iz too it. dont need no fancy smatchy pickle scope ' those are for pickle farmerz crazy northern folk!
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Car
Very good diagnosis you cant see a a slight difference that the cam shaft sprocket had by eye but you caught that with a scope to see the picture, maybe if you measured distance. But as usual aftermarket parts on average suck. And for the few bucks more genuine is the way to go. exact fitting parts every time as long as it was pulled correctly and the parts guy is good. Youtube on TV then find and comment like now.
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Very good diagnosis you cant see a a slight difference that the cam shaft sprocket had by eye but you caught that with a scope to see the picture, maybe if you measured distance. But as usual aftermarket parts on average suck. And for the few bucks more genuine is the way to go. exact fitting parts every time as long as it was pulled correctly and the parts guy is good. Youtube on TV then find and comment like now.
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Emil
The gear timing is independent of the length of the belt. As long as the belt is in mesh with the gears the radio remains constant. The only variable that affects the ratio of toothed gear/belt mechanism is the number of teeth and/or diameter of gears, which of course is dependent on tooth pitch, provided that it's symmetrical (which has to be in this case.
My guess is it was the sensor that was the culprit.
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The gear timing is independent of the length of the belt. As long as the belt is in mesh with the gears the radio remains constant. The only variable that affects the ratio of toothed gear/belt mechanism is the number of teeth and/or diameter of gears, which of course is dependent on tooth pitch, provided that it's symmetrical (which has to be in this case.
My guess is it was the sensor that was the culprit.
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Robert
Would have been interesting to see the results with just the pickup sensors changed. Made out of spec and pickup offset inside would change when it detects, and if barely on the ring, noise sensing.
I don't see how a belt would do anything if it has the same number of teeth, and measurements unless it is flexing like a rubber band.
But even a 15 ebay scope should be able to pick up these signals.
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Would have been interesting to see the results with just the pickup sensors changed. Made out of spec and pickup offset inside would change when it detects, and if barely on the ring, noise sensing.
I don't see how a belt would do anything if it has the same number of teeth, and measurements unless it is flexing like a rubber band.
But even a 15 ebay scope should be able to pick up these signals.
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jorge
You have hit the nail on the head. This problem could not have been diagnosed any other way other than changing all those parts to OEM and hope for the best. You were able to see that the tolerances of aftermarket items are not the same as OEM and that is why they are cheaper. I am not saying all aftermarket items are bad. Sometimes for certain applications OEM is the only way. Eric has proven this.
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You have hit the nail on the head. This problem could not have been diagnosed any other way other than changing all those parts to OEM and hope for the best. You were able to see that the tolerances of aftermarket items are not the same as OEM and that is why they are cheaper. I am not saying all aftermarket items are bad. Sometimes for certain applications OEM is the only way. Eric has proven this.
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David
This new technology is amazing, there's no way that this issue could have been diagnosed when I was a mechanic 83 till early nineties. We had analog scans and very minor diagnostic computers, manufacturers held their codes top secret, even designed false codes for non dealer scanners. That's about the time I bowed out gracefully, seems time has remideed this issue.
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This new technology is amazing, there's no way that this issue could have been diagnosed when I was a mechanic 83 till early nineties. We had analog scans and very minor diagnostic computers, manufacturers held their codes top secret, even designed false codes for non dealer scanners. That's about the time I bowed out gracefully, seems time has remideed this issue.
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Keith
Considering the labor involved it made sense to change all 3 parts but I can't help wondering if just changing the sensor might have been all it took. Oh well, it was worth it to the customer to have a positive proof that it was fixed and I'm glad that there are guys like you who know how to verify the condition of an engine on more than a pass/fail level.
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Considering the labor involved it made sense to change all 3 parts but I can't help wondering if just changing the sensor might have been all it took. Oh well, it was worth it to the customer to have a positive proof that it was fixed and I'm glad that there are guys like you who know how to verify the condition of an engine on more than a pass/fail level.
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Lewis
I like your attitude, prove it. Fix it. Well done and yes, a must have tool to repair modern vehicle's. Also need to know how to use the scanner oscope That would take a bit of a learning curve and constant usage. So not an option for FIY at home mechanics. Outstanding repair, and with Honda in particular, use OEM parts like you ended up doing.
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I like your attitude, prove it. Fix it. Well done and yes, a must have tool to repair modern vehicle's. Also need to know how to use the scanner oscope That would take a bit of a learning curve and constant usage. So not an option for FIY at home mechanics. Outstanding repair, and with Honda in particular, use OEM parts like you ended up doing.
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